Instant 3D

[FR3D]

This is new to me ...

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/199 ... ur-2-d-and


demos

http://www.3-dvision.com/3-D-demos.htm



will this work with rift too ?

best regards FR3D

[Bleppe]

$850.000? Not gonna happen...

[Likay]

Here already.
Anyway. I doubt that the device will work with a satisfying effect. However implementing riftsupport on the device is no task compared to what they try to do.

[Ziggurat]

This box extrapolates depth maps much the same way as my Samsung TV. Samsung is licensing this tech of another company which is very proud of their tech as well.

He says his method is completely different, but that just means that he uses different algorithms to extrapolate a depth map. I'm not an expert in this subject, but I am far beyond the regular joe, so please feel free to add to my information or maybe tell me something I got wrong. But here is my best explanation of how this box works, and its problems.


The first is that its not actual 3D, even though you get some sense of depth. When you watch a real pike that is pointed towards your face, you will se different sides of the pike with your eyes. In methods such as this they basically try to extrapolate a depth map, and then stretch each object on the screen to account for such depth. On my TV you do not get a great sense of depth from this technique, but of course you can in the software side make any amount of depth you want in the cost of things being stretched. I guess they stretch the image more, to make a bigger depth in the image, which would be not to my liking.

VorpX and some other 3D drivers uses this technique as well, but it can actually get a 1:1 depth map since it does so in driver part of the process. This leaves the second problem to stretching things, you don't get a 1:1 depth and thus even though you see some depth, the proportions are wrong and the images are stretched the more depth you have in the image. On my TV this is not blatantly obvious, but again I can't see a over use of fake depth either.
The box here on kickstarter has to over use a method that bigger companies won't do because it warps the image.

Also another problem comes with the close shutter part of this 3D box as well. Since this works with any TV, even CRT's with composite video as they showed, this they must have a low frequency of closed shutter glasses. I have to only guess that they comply with NTSC standard of video which is 30 frames per second, and to make that the most comfortable they can, you will get the glasses blinking every other right left right left at 30 times a second. Or else it would not work common video source of composite in the US. Maybe there is some sort of automatic or manual detection on the box it self. But the point being that the glasses have to have so extreme closed periods that bigger manufacturers do not want to do this because they think it is uncomfortable.


So my get on this is that they use lots of extreme methods, to get cheap depth map, that will only please some customers, and will be hell for others to watch.


EDIT:
This thread does not really belong in the oculus rift sub forum, since this box can't be used to make a side by side picture as needed by the rift. But I understand that the thread starter did not understand this at the time of posting, since there is such much talk about retrofitted 3D drivers.

Edit2:
Corrected some mistakes as pointed out by geekmaster.

[geekmaster]

... Vireio 3D driver uses this technique as well, but it can actually get a 1:1 depth map since it does so in driver part of the process. ... NTSC standard of video which is about 24 frames per second ...

Good information. But VorpX, not Vireo. And NTSC is 30 frames per second, not 24. 24 FPS movie content requires frame duplication or interpolation to convert it to 30 FPS NTSC. PAL (analog TV standard in Europe) uses a framerate of 25 FPS, and movies are often run slightly faster instead of inserting an extra frame every second. Converting NTSC to 24 FPS is a lot more complicated:
http://eugenia.queru.com/2009/08/04/the ... 0p-to-24p/

You probably know this stuff already, and just did not get around to correcting your post. I make similar temporary mistakes myself...


REFERENCES:

VorpX Driver Preview: ...
This technique renders the scene for the left eye, and then creates the image for the right eye using a per-pixel displacement based on the depth map ...

NTSC
... a frame rate of 30 frames (images) per second, consisting of two interlaced fields per frame at 262.5 lines per field and 60 fields per second ...

[Ziggurat]

Thank you geekmaster. I will edit my post so not to confuse other people.

[geekmaster]

Thank you geekmaster. I will edit my post so not to confuse other people.

I just got done correcting little typos in my own post above, while you were typing your reply. It usually takes multiple passes before I get it right. Sometimes it takes days or weeks for me to even notice a serious flaw in my old posts, but then I go back and correct them. I want even old posts to remain a useful and factual resource.

I would love it if people notify me of any typos or factual errors I make (without argument if I disagree with the corrections, please). I want my stuff accurate to the best of my knowledge and resources. Thanks.

[Falan]

I just got done correcting little typos in my own post above, while you were typing your reply. It usually takes multiple passes before I get it right. Sometimes it takes days or weeks for me to even notice a serious flaw in my old posts, but then I go back and correct time. I want even old posts to remain a useful and factual resource.

I would love it if people notify me of any typos or factual errors I make (without argument if I disagree with the corrections, please). I want my stuff accurate to the best of my knowledge and resources. Thanks.

You need at least another fly-by of this one then Geekmaster

[geekmaster]

You need at least another fly-by of this one then Geekmaster

Thanks. My fingers all too often type a different similar sounding word than my brain told them to type, and the spell checkers do not catch that. I was an extremely fast and accurate typist when I was younger (receiving special training as a child, back when that was a "girls only" secretarial skill)...

[Ziggurat]

Thank you geekmaster. I will edit my post so not to confuse other people.

I just got done correcting little typos in my own post above, while you were typing your reply. It usually takes multiple passes before I get it right. Sometimes it takes days or weeks for me to even notice a serious flaw in my old posts, but then I go back and correct them. I want even old posts to remain a useful and factual resource.

I would love it if people notify me of any typos or factual errors I make (without argument if I disagree with the corrections, please). I want my stuff accurate to the best of my knowledge and resources. Thanks.

Yes we will call them typos

Its so much better when people try to compliment each other building on knowledge, than trying to be the king off the hill.
Whats more important for me is the actual knowledge, and not that I had to be right. Of course I'm not 100% immune to the feelings you get from actually being wrong, but one can try And of course its easier if people aren't dicks about it.

[Falan]

lol it wouldn't make a difference your typos tbh I only understand about 30% of what you say anyway and in awe of the rest, its like that for most who post here I can sometime latch on to what they are talking about but the majority is too high-brow and tecky

If I can contribute dull witt and 80's humour I guess that's something, damn I need to stop refreshing this forum every 30 minutes. This rift is eating me out inside, I thought it would get easier having tried it but its just worse im such an obsessional freak

[geekmaster]

Beware that Rift forum browsing (and especially interactive posting) can be habit forming. Getting your Rift may not break that habit, because then you will be on the lookout for new and interesting things to try in your Rift.

[Ziggurat]

lol it wouldn't make a difference your typos tbh I only understand about 30% of what you say anyway and in awe of the rest, its like that for most who post here I can sometime latch on to what they are talking about but the majority is too high-brow and tecky

If I can contribute dull witt and 80's humour I guess that's something, damn I need to stop refreshing this forum every 30 minutes. This rift is eating me out inside, I thought it would get easier having tried it but its just worse im such an obsessional freak

Well I can explain it in layman's terms as well. This box has to use cheap uncomfortable tricks that bigger companies won't use for the sole reason that they have to have quality be associated with quality. I would get this box if I did not have a 3D TV that had this built in already, but with less effect and thus better quality. I would not get this box for any price. This box + two glasses would be worth about $99 to me if I did not have a 3D TV, thats to me with my salary and hate for badly done 3D. And yes I know I would then be buying it just for the gimmick, some people aren't as picky as me though.

EDIT:
I can only imagine them being uncomfortable for me, I don't mean to bash on their product as I have not tried it, but have this feature built into my TV already and never use it.

Here is some more information on the feature that Samsung lisences to put in some TV's and Blu-ray players.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7CtGBVNhI8

[Falan]

Beware that Rift forum browsing (and especially interactive posting) can be habit forming. Getting your Rift may not break that habit, because then you will be on the lookout for new and interesting things to try in your Rift.

Actually I gave it some thought and the rift couldn't have come along at a better time, I am obsessing over it but that is infinitely better than obsessing over someone outside my marriage, it has pretty much killed that dead talk about godsend. That is a very uncomfortable situation if anyones found themselves in it. Bring it on Oculus bring it on

Ziggurat yeah thanks for that it looks a bit too good to be true doesn't it? For a minute I thought you were referring to the rift as the 'box' I got so caught up in a previous post I forgot what topic I was in lol

[geekmaster]

... Actually I gave it some thought and the rift couldn't have come along at a better time, I am obsessing over it but that is infinitely better than obsessing over someone outside my marriage ...

Well then, in that case, I strongly recommend that you completely avoid the "Rift Porn" threads over at the OculusVR forums.

[Falan]

Lol excellent, what a fascinating modern age we live in

[Parallaxis]

This is a really nice rendering. After seeing this I really believe this is a serious product.

[blazespinnaker]

Glad they told us it was not an actual photo. I wasn't sure.

[Paladia]

Gene Dolgoff actually has quite the experience and is working on a lot of different interesting tech products that could come to market with some more funding. He is actually one of the people I'd like to get money the most, especially when it comes to his work on holography. A proper use of holography would make a screen send out light in exactly the same way as real life does, making it indistinguishable from reality. That is really the holy grail of VR, not a traditional screen.

He explains it in further detail here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlWckIQN ... e&t=27m30s and it is an interesting watch if you are into VR.

[geekmaster]

Gene Dolgoff actually has quite the experience and is working on a lot of different interesting tech products...

The Star Trek Holodeck was inspired by New York inventor and holographer, Gene Dolgoff, who is also the inventor of the digital projector. His holography laboratory, built in 1964, was the first holography lab in New York City. ... Dolgoff had won 4th prize in the IEEE student paper contest in 1968 in which he described how such a holographic "TV system" could work (in addition to describing how to use it to provide a machine capable of invisibility). ...

Invisibility is basically a form of VR (and/or AR) indistinguishable from reality.

Gene is smart and has dabbled in many things, although some of his video interviews are lacking in convincing technical details. As a result (and like other smart people) he has more than his share of detractors too...

[Ziggurat]

He explains it in further detail here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlWckIQN ... e&t=27m30s and it is an interesting watch if you are into VR.

Oh gawd, he explained the tesseract in a very bad way
Carl Sagan explains it better

If you had problems following what happened with the Tesseract, this is a explanation I prefer to show to others
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WjV6MmCyM

[Evenios]

could be if they provide a option to render it in side by side warped, however i found that for the most part it really helps to have headtracking in a game if it does not have headtracking it feels a little weird (unless its like an emulator for the virtual boy) :-p

but woah look at the goal $850,000+??? thats crazy ...good luck with that.