The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
- Chiefwinston
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The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
HFR 3D= High Frame Rate 3D
A Peter Jackson film and another good one from him. Peter is a great story teller so I wont give any spoilers- go see it and support the art.
And so on to the technical details. I'm fortunate enough to have one of the few theaters that can display at the relatively new High Frame Rate of 48 frames per second vs. the current standard of 24, near me. My local theater has a huge screen for this- its just shy of being IMAX big. This auditorium also has the new Dolby ATMOS surround sound format. The DLP projector is bright and has superb image quality. The Dolby sound caught me by suprise. It is vastly superior to 5.1 or 7.1 surround. I had birds and insects flying around my head, over me, beside me. And it was very convincingly real sounding.
I have seen high frame rate material before, but it is a completely different experience on a huge screen. Everything was silky smooth. The imaging is really quite spectacular. Its the clarity, everthing is simply crystal clear. During one moment of the film, I had a black outline of a man in my peripheral vision walk next to me and onto the screen. The 3D immersion was that good. There was no aisle walk way next to me, just seats. Its the first time I've ever had that sensation in a movie, from next to me to the big screen. It happened so quick that it startled me.
And now the reality check. The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D) suffers from a horrible case of "the soap opera effect". I have never seen this on such a big screen or in a movie theater before. I've only seen it on HDTV's. Its so bad that I had trouble getting immersed in the movie magic. Now 48 frames a second will be a big step forward for cinema 3D. But this is a very poor example to start with. The directors in the future will need to eliminate the "soap opera effect". Its some combination of ultra-high definition and frame rate. I have no doubts that as more artists use this format that it will improve. And I do look forward to more HFR films. And so my reccomendation to all is to skip the HFR 3D and go for an IMAX 3D or standard 3D showing.
Chief's score card:
Story: 9.5
Acting: 9.5
Special effects: 9.5
Music and Sound: 10
3D: 8.0/8.25
Final Score: 6.0
In conclusion, the low final score is a result of my experience with the HFR showing and its problems. It is the future. And it will be great. Its just not with this film. I was expecting it to be more immersive and it was the opposite for me.
Peace
A Peter Jackson film and another good one from him. Peter is a great story teller so I wont give any spoilers- go see it and support the art.
And so on to the technical details. I'm fortunate enough to have one of the few theaters that can display at the relatively new High Frame Rate of 48 frames per second vs. the current standard of 24, near me. My local theater has a huge screen for this- its just shy of being IMAX big. This auditorium also has the new Dolby ATMOS surround sound format. The DLP projector is bright and has superb image quality. The Dolby sound caught me by suprise. It is vastly superior to 5.1 or 7.1 surround. I had birds and insects flying around my head, over me, beside me. And it was very convincingly real sounding.
I have seen high frame rate material before, but it is a completely different experience on a huge screen. Everything was silky smooth. The imaging is really quite spectacular. Its the clarity, everthing is simply crystal clear. During one moment of the film, I had a black outline of a man in my peripheral vision walk next to me and onto the screen. The 3D immersion was that good. There was no aisle walk way next to me, just seats. Its the first time I've ever had that sensation in a movie, from next to me to the big screen. It happened so quick that it startled me.
And now the reality check. The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D) suffers from a horrible case of "the soap opera effect". I have never seen this on such a big screen or in a movie theater before. I've only seen it on HDTV's. Its so bad that I had trouble getting immersed in the movie magic. Now 48 frames a second will be a big step forward for cinema 3D. But this is a very poor example to start with. The directors in the future will need to eliminate the "soap opera effect". Its some combination of ultra-high definition and frame rate. I have no doubts that as more artists use this format that it will improve. And I do look forward to more HFR films. And so my reccomendation to all is to skip the HFR 3D and go for an IMAX 3D or standard 3D showing.
Chief's score card:
Story: 9.5
Acting: 9.5
Special effects: 9.5
Music and Sound: 10
3D: 8.0/8.25
Final Score: 6.0
In conclusion, the low final score is a result of my experience with the HFR showing and its problems. It is the future. And it will be great. Its just not with this film. I was expecting it to be more immersive and it was the opposite for me.
Peace
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- brantlew
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
I plan on checking it out this week. I'm sure that the effect is going to bother me. I'm one of those guys that immediately disables motion interpolation when confronted with a new high rate television. But I can't shake the feeling that this is all just "conditioning" from long term exposure to film and video content. It's not the technologies fault that I associate high frame rates with cheap production. That's my problem! So I'm trying hard to have an open mind and a fresh set of eyes when I see it because I can't really argue with the superiority of the technology. And any arguments that invoke film style or nostalgia just seem to fall flat.
- FingerFlinger
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
I saw it last week in 2-D, and every panning shot was super jittery and distracting. I wonder if that is due to some motion interpolation effect?
- android78
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
I saw this in HFR on a large screen, but my experience was different. I think the problem is with the 3D, not the HFR. One problem with 3D is that you notice even really well done 'cheats' like painted texture on walls, and flaws in rendering. I think that the HFR made it a lot more watchable, and it would be a shame for this movie to sour any progress towards a better format.
This whole movie was a bit of a disappointment to me and it really seemed like it was rushed to get finished. The CG was a real mixed bag, going from well done (the Gollum riddle scene) to the utterly terrible (without a spoiler, the scene with wargs chasing the sleigh). The 3D was also very mixed and for the most part too shallow to add anything. Some movies start the 3D with low depth and gradually increase it as the movie progresses, but it felt like the depth was jumping forward and backward. To me, this really seems to be a big problem with use of zoom lenses.
If they had an extra few months to polish, then it could have been a lot better, but I think Jackson needs more time shooting for 3D to get the props right and not looking like cardboard and foam.
Other then that, wile I like some of the bits added to the story in the book, it still seemed like too little story for too much movie.
Sorry if this seems over negative. The movie wasn't all bad, but I really don't feel it was up to the same standard as the LOTR movies. Let's hope that Jackson has learnt from this one and the next two (oh god... why so many?) are better polished.
Regarding the 2D being choppy, I imagine that part of the problem with shooting for HFR and then down-converting is that the shutter speed of HFR means that there it less motion blur each frame when moving. It's like video games that don't use any motion blur, you tend to need much higher frame rate or they become jittery. I would love to see this in HFR 2D, but I don't think that's an option.
This whole movie was a bit of a disappointment to me and it really seemed like it was rushed to get finished. The CG was a real mixed bag, going from well done (the Gollum riddle scene) to the utterly terrible (without a spoiler, the scene with wargs chasing the sleigh). The 3D was also very mixed and for the most part too shallow to add anything. Some movies start the 3D with low depth and gradually increase it as the movie progresses, but it felt like the depth was jumping forward and backward. To me, this really seems to be a big problem with use of zoom lenses.
If they had an extra few months to polish, then it could have been a lot better, but I think Jackson needs more time shooting for 3D to get the props right and not looking like cardboard and foam.
Other then that, wile I like some of the bits added to the story in the book, it still seemed like too little story for too much movie.
Sorry if this seems over negative. The movie wasn't all bad, but I really don't feel it was up to the same standard as the LOTR movies. Let's hope that Jackson has learnt from this one and the next two (oh god... why so many?) are better polished.
Regarding the 2D being choppy, I imagine that part of the problem with shooting for HFR and then down-converting is that the shutter speed of HFR means that there it less motion blur each frame when moving. It's like video games that don't use any motion blur, you tend to need much higher frame rate or they become jittery. I would love to see this in HFR 2D, but I don't think that's an option.
- brantlew
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
I finally saw it last night. The movie is just average.
The look of the film didn't bother me that much. Sometimes it looked like BBC, but often it would just look really crisp and clear. I think I could get used to watching people in this format. And the outdoor scenes in real settings and natural lighting look spectacular! The helicopter shots are absolutely superior in every way to film and the scenes where they are walking through the woods look like you are right there with them. And the action shots are always clear and easy to follow without the normal blurriness. On the flip-side, the increased detail is not very kind to the practical and special effects - especially when real people and CG are mixed in the same frame. The fakeness screams through in many of the effects shots and the sets, props, and costumes often look bad. I actually think this may be the worst type of movie for HFR because it exposes the effects. I think a traditional action movie with explosions and car chases would have been incredible and a much better introduction to this format.
But my favorite thing about the HFR was how it made 3D comfortable. I watched Avatar three times in good theaters and always had severe eye strain and mild headaches after 3 hours. The thing that struck me hardest about The Hobbit was that there was absolutely no eye strain !! I could tell the difference in the first 5 minutes and even after the full movie I still felt comfortable.
So all in all, I like the format. But I would have picked a different movie to watch it with.
The look of the film didn't bother me that much. Sometimes it looked like BBC, but often it would just look really crisp and clear. I think I could get used to watching people in this format. And the outdoor scenes in real settings and natural lighting look spectacular! The helicopter shots are absolutely superior in every way to film and the scenes where they are walking through the woods look like you are right there with them. And the action shots are always clear and easy to follow without the normal blurriness. On the flip-side, the increased detail is not very kind to the practical and special effects - especially when real people and CG are mixed in the same frame. The fakeness screams through in many of the effects shots and the sets, props, and costumes often look bad. I actually think this may be the worst type of movie for HFR because it exposes the effects. I think a traditional action movie with explosions and car chases would have been incredible and a much better introduction to this format.
But my favorite thing about the HFR was how it made 3D comfortable. I watched Avatar three times in good theaters and always had severe eye strain and mild headaches after 3 hours. The thing that struck me hardest about The Hobbit was that there was absolutely no eye strain !! I could tell the difference in the first 5 minutes and even after the full movie I still felt comfortable.
So all in all, I like the format. But I would have picked a different movie to watch it with.
- Chiefwinston
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
I also had area's of the film that looked spead up to me. For example: A group of dwarfs walking at times had this unnatural look, like the scene was being displayed at a 10% speed up. I know this wasn't the case. But many scenes had this illusion for me. And each time it would break the movie magic. Did any of you notice this?
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- brantlew
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
I didn't notice anything like that. But I couldn't keep my eyes off those horrible looking rubber hobbit feet.Chiefwinston wrote:I also had area's of the film that looked spead up to me. For example: A group of dwarfs walking at times had this unnatural look, like the scene was being displayed at a 10% speed up. I know this wasn't the case. But many scenes had this illusion for me. And each time it would break the movie magic. Did any of you notice this?
Peace
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- android78
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
@Chiefwinston: Regarding it looking sped-up - I didn't find it feeling sped up, but rather noticed how many scenes were intentionally slowed down for dramatic effect. I agree with brantlew regarding the eyestrain in that it is definitely a lot better with the HFR. That being said, I didn't think there was anywhere near enough depth in the helicopter scenes that brantlew is talking about to really call them superior, and I was in a pretty big cinema (think just a bit smaller then imax).
@FingerFlinger: Since you saw it in 2D, did you find the costumes/sets/props/CG looked really bad (the way brantlew and I have described), or was it on par with the LOTR films? I'd also be curious for someone who has seen it in non HFR 3D give their opinion. I'm tempted to go see it another two times (once in non-HFR 3D and once in 2D) for a true comparison, but I didn't really enjoy the movie enough to make it worth while.
On the plus side, I imagine that this movie could actually look better in 3D on the TV at home... the smaller scale would hide a lot of the problems I mention. Does bluray (or HDMI) support HFR yet?
@FingerFlinger: Since you saw it in 2D, did you find the costumes/sets/props/CG looked really bad (the way brantlew and I have described), or was it on par with the LOTR films? I'd also be curious for someone who has seen it in non HFR 3D give their opinion. I'm tempted to go see it another two times (once in non-HFR 3D and once in 2D) for a true comparison, but I didn't really enjoy the movie enough to make it worth while.
On the plus side, I imagine that this movie could actually look better in 3D on the TV at home... the smaller scale would hide a lot of the problems I mention. Does bluray (or HDMI) support HFR yet?
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
Ive seen the HFR version, and I have not noticed anything wrong. Fast movements were smoother, which definately helped in some scenes. Also, I dunno if its because of the HFR or some upgrade in the theater, but the 3D effect was very clear, realistic and not distracting at all.
- Evenios
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
i coudnt watch the 48 fps version myself as i have some motion issues, so i just got the 24p download version i HOPE they will offer it in 3d at 24 frames per second.
I like the movie itself though. i love the introduction and the added bit in the middle that tie things into the Lord of the Rings a bit more
. nice.
I like the movie itself though. i love the introduction and the added bit in the middle that tie things into the Lord of the Rings a bit more
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- android78
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
I would have thought that motion issues would usually be helped by a higher frame rate. Are you saying that you went and saw this, or another movie and had issues watching it?Evenios wrote:i coudnt watch the 48 fps version myself as i have some motion issues, so i just got the 24p download version i HOPE they will offer it in 3d at 24 frames per second.
I like the movie itself though. i love the introduction and the added bit in the middle that tie things into the Lord of the Rings a bit more. nice.
Regarding the release, I'm not sure if BD would be released as HFR. If it can, I'm sure it must be possible to play at lower frame rate for more compatibility.
- Okta
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
I noticed the speed up a lot. Mostly the first 20 mins or so. It looked like old footage of black and white silent comedy movies. Very odd.
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- Chiefwinston
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (HFR 3D)
I did some research the other night to see what would be the next attempt at HFR 3D. Its a pretty small list. Basically the next Hobbit movie in December. And then maybe Avatar 2 and 3 at some point in the future with no release dates set. I wish I could say the future looks bright for HFR 3D. But it is fair to say the first attempt has been a failure. As a consolation though the 3D Blu-Ray is superb.
peace
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(34) Patents