"Exohaptics": exoskeleton for haptic feedback!

[geekmaster]

The basic framework of this human-powered exoskeleton could be made smaller and have motors attached to the joints to provide haptic feedback:

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5wqDWEaPFA[/youtube-hd]

It would be an interesing project for amateur metalworkers. This "skeletonics" device was featured in Make! and PopSci.

Here is the home page for it:
http://www.dannychoo.com/post/en/26040/Skeletonics.html

Ahh, I see motors! Or are those position sensors? Why not have both (joint tracking and haptic feedback)?
http://skeletonics.seesaa.net/

EDIT: I just realized after pressing Submit that this thread should have been posted to a different forum. Could a moderator please move here:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=120

Thanks.

[mindless]

That device really needs to be painted yellow.

[virror]

Haha, nice video : )

[geekmaster]

If you added motors and pressure sensors to the joints, not only could the suit apply pressure (and motion) feedback to the joints, but it could be programmed to REMOVE pressure by moving away from it, which could give superhuman strength and endurance. There already are such machines out there (for military and prosthetic use), but THIS one looks easy enough for DIY and could be used here as a model framework for a VR haptic feedback device. It could be affixed to a base to keep you from accidentally going anywhere while you travel in VR. Swinging your legs should FEEL like walking with the right forces applied (including a friction simulation). The stand it attaches to could even rotate you to stimulate your vestibular system so that you actually feed correct rotation.

Just an idea here, but exciting enough for me to want to persue it. For fractional-force feedback (which may be enough), it could be made quite lightweight and could use small low-power stepper motors. Or it could be scaled up with beefier motors, but you would want to provide mechanical limits to prevent joint damage from software glitches.

In that video, they need a pair of head-tracked cameras on top, and an Oculus Rift on the face of the "driver" inside. Besides just the joint-motion sensors I mentioned earlier (perhaps just variable resistors), it should also have at least one IMU to provide a world reference for the exoskeleton frame.

I think that being in one of this that was tied into the VR simulation could be a "highly awesomized" experience.

[geekmaster]

I have gotten questions regarding my new avatar. Think "VR meets Hunter S. Thompson" (of "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" fame):



If you watch the Johnny Depp movie version of Hunter's autobiographical novel, you might think that Hunter would not NEED VR goggles to experience "virtual" reality...

Just in case my avatar shown in the left margin changes at some point in the future, here is my current new "Hunteresque" avatar (preserved below for posterity). If you look closely at the avatar image, I do not think that is tobacco he is smoking. Think of something else commonly used to relieve motion sickness and queasiness (such as by chemotherapy patients), and it may make some VR environments "more interesting" too...

[geekmaster]

This seems rather extreme (and heavy) but it is a start:



Here is a powered exoskeleton to help carry heavy weights for long distances:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2W23ysgWKI[/youtube]

Here is one available off-the-shelf in Japan, designed to assist handicapped individuals. Perhaps it can be reprogrammed for VR haptic feedback. It "only" costs $2,000 per month to LEASE it:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy7ipDAyXtI[/youtube]

I want an exoskeleton robot suit that works with VR, which can not only assist, but also resist motion, to simulate walking while attached to a fixed stand (which can also rotate for correct vestibular feedback).

[WiredEarp]

There are quite a few mechanical exoskeleton walkers and force feedback VR systems. The problem is making ones that are safe, lightweight, and reasonably priced...

I want an exoskeleton robot suit that works with VR, which can not only assist, but also resist motion, to simulate walking while attached to a fixed stand (which can also rotate for correct vestibular feedback).

This is the future IMHO, but I believe exoskeletal walking will come first, followed by haptic feedback to the hands/arms.

[geekmaster]

This is the future IMHO, but I believe exoskeletal walking will come first, followed by haptic feedback to the hands/arms.

Ahh, yes. ExoPants:


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H6SG34EOqk[/youtube]

[twofoe]

I have gotten questions regarding my new avatar. Think "VR meets Hunter S. Thompson" (of "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" fame)

Reminds me of Spider Jerusalem from Transmetropolitan, which makes sense since he's a Gonzo Journalist in a cyberpunk future. Read that comic, by the way, if you haven't. You'll like it if you like Hunter S. Thompson and cyberpunk.

[geekmaster]

A day with my avatar dude:

[cybereality]

Any of you guys heard of the Handyman before?



http://cyberneticzoo.com/?p=3005

Dude was doing that back in the 1950's. I feel like a scrub now...

[WiredEarp]

Hahah @ the Wallace & Grommit bit, I remember that one.

I heard that 'day with Hunter S Thompson' bit was pretty much made up BTW - there was a thread on reddit about it quite recently.

[geekmaster]

Hahah @ the Wallace & Grommit bit, I remember that one.

I heard that 'day with Hunter S Thompson' bit was pretty much made up BTW - there was a thread on reddit about it quite recently.

Yeah, I heard that too, but it is a cute parody of his "autobiographical" Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas book (and movie).

I have a huge collection of VHS tapes with Wallace and Grommit (and others) I purchased back when I used to travel to Animation Festivals (Spike and Mike, etc.). The "robot pants" one is one of my favorites.

[geekmaster]

Any of you guys heard of the Handyman before?
...
http://cyberneticzoo.com/?p=3005

Dude was doing that back in the 1950's. I feel like a scrub now...

I spent a fair amount of time back in the day playing with something similar, but it was all cables and pulleys (passive). It was designed to be used behind a safety glass shield for handling dangerous materials. Really cool and immediately intuitive.

It would be great to use such a control mechanism for a VR avatar, because it is both an input device and a haptic feedback device. I would like an entire suit with haptic I/O...

I have been looking for an online video of the "VR walking simulator" portion of one of the Michio Kaku "Physics of the Impossible" episodes. The proposed walking simulator (i.e. "ODT") was essential an upside-down pair of walking robot legs, which tracked an mimicked your leg movements, where your feet walked on the moving soles of the "robot feet". If you can imagine walking on a mirror, where the reflected legs are robot legs, that gives an idea what it looks like in operation (but with no mirror). It was a bit reminiscent of a sequence in the Open Orange movie (Elephant's Dream), where the guy steps trustingly into open space and the machine provides a small platform to support his foot at the last moment (@ 04:09):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ym5G8yUjM&t=4m9s

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ym5G8yUjM[/youtube]

The difference with the walking simulator is that the machine platforms move backwards, keeping his center of mass fixed in one place.

[geekmaster]

I just stumbled across the String Walker. It looks like a DIY version could be built:

http://www.gizmag.com/stringwalker-enab ... ure/33872/


Besides actively sliding your feet back under you, it could resist motion (like walking in water?)...

And VR shoes:
http://gizmodo.com/251023/going-nowhere ... king-shoes
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYE6dqaereU[/youtube]

And a "small" DIY cybercarpet-like ODT:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9SCn77DZdQ[/youtube]

[geekmaster]

Since I created this thread, I searched for a particular video many times with no success. I finally found it!

The part of this video I am intersted in is the "3D Treadmill" starting at 04:28, and 09:00.

Michio Kaku, Sci-Fi Science: Physics of the Impossible, Holodeck (@04:28, @9:00):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwzxMSWbCHA&t=4m28s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwzxMSWbCHA&t=9m00s

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwzxMSWbCHA[/youtube]

My thoughts are to make a walking simulator device that combines ideas from this and from the video in the first post.

[cybereality]

Yeah, that would work I guess. Though I feel like it may have problems if you were, say, running fast and circle-strafing or other combined actions like that. But the idea certainly demands further investigation.

[Naru]

I like the foot platforms idea, only that they would have to be much larger to accommodate lying down on the ground. I might actually build that 10 years from now. On the todo list it goes.

[geekmaster]

I like the foot platforms idea, only that they would have to be much larger to accommodate lying down on the ground. I might actually build that 10 years from now. On the todo list it goes.

For lying down, you just need many foot-sized platforms. They could support you at many points, also supporting rolling, crawling, jumping, dancing, backflips, and anything else you can do. Until you fall off and get crushed, of course.

[WiredEarp]

Seems a scary design to me. I'd prefer to go with an exoskeletal walker. Something like the Sarcos Biport etc.

http://www.dis.uniroma1.it/~deluca/lhi_ ... _Intro.pdf

[geekmaster]

Seems a scary design to me. I'd prefer to go with an exoskeletal walker. Something like the Sarcos Biport etc.

http://www.dis.uniroma1.it/~deluca/lhi_ ... _Intro.pdf

Thanks for that link! I was aware of many of the things in it, but not the Sarcos Biport, and this PDF document pulled it all together nicely into one place. The Biport looks like a cross between the "inverted mirror" walker in Michio Kaku's video, and an elliptical trainer exercise machine (like the one I purchased recently to use with my Rift). It might be interesting to build something like that for personal use.

In this photo, the Sarcos Biport is the one on the left:



Sarcos has some other cool stuff too, like this exoskeleton:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYWd2C3XVIk[/youtube]

[WiredEarp]

Theres another PDF around that actually lists quite a few more 'walker' type LP's. I think Sarcos made a few, as in there are other model names besides the Biport. There was some other company (I think) that had like 4 different iterated versions of the same thing, looked very promising (although extremely expensive). I think these types of design are saner/safer than dynamically trying to put platforms under peoples feet.

I have my own idea that ive been kicking around my head for many years - it involves a semi reclined seat with force feedback on the seat along with a LP foot system that simulates walking. It has some advantages IMHO in that it is less body stress (you can sit yet still stand and walk) and is passively safer than most of these standing designs, not to mention cheaper. Unfortunately I'm still trying to figure out how to actually construct the LP part physically - I really should buy a CNC system or 3D printer to help with prototypes etc.

One thing that is a potential issue with walker types is that its probably a good idea to secure the platform to the users foot, which means you come into ergonomic issues etc, time spent putting on and off, etc. Also systems of this type will probably not be as popular as using foot controllers (who really wants to run around in Quake?) so the market is smaller. However, I still seem external/exoskeletal systems of this type as giving us the best VR possible until we get brain interfaces.

[geekmaster]

When you get older, you cannot walk as far or fast as you did when you were younger. A walk around the block is a significant accomplishment, and on your better days perhaps two or three blocks. It is not endurance that is at issue, but pain management. You CAN push yourself MUCH harder, but you will pay for it later, perhaps too much. I think if we want to target the "baby boomer" market, we must account for that. Even standing in place too long is a strain on the ankles and knees.

Although free walking, or even walking on a locomotion platform like an ODT, would be great for a time-limited demo, the extended "play time" I want (to make up for decades of waiting for VR to catch up with my desires), will certainly require sitting down most of the time. When I was younger, I thought laying on my back was great for simulating forward acceleration in a weightless environment (flying in space), but these days the "floaters" in my eyes settle onto my retinas, making that experience less enjoyable.

Driving and flying and other cockpit simulators (while sitting in your favorite "easy chair") are the only way I see to capture the VR hearts and minds of the huge "boomer market". Who wouldn't want to spend their retirement in VR?

But even when sitting, an exoskeleton can be used to provide haptic feedback. Perhaps building it into a chair could solve some problems. It would certainly help when your heavy exosuit tips over with you inside it, and it cannot right itself. "Help me! I've fallen and I can't get up!".

Yeah, now that I think about it, I think my exosuit would spend most of its time in the closet what I sit in my comfortable "haptic exochair".

[geekmaster]

Now that this topic has expanded to include an "exohaptic easy chair", I have decide that I WANT a "chair shaped" exoskeleton. If it could get up and walk without the old fogey inside having to get in and out, all the better...

Old guys have to "go take a leak" way too often. Getting out of the easy chair too often is a chore, but building a toilet into the chair is just plain silly (the but of internet jokes even). But if you can wear your portable chair while you perform some frequent pesky bodily functions, now that would be a private desire of many a senior citizen (especially if it provided MORE than enough power to carry its own weight, taking you along for the ride). Awesome!

But the real key here is to use the exoskeleton for HAPTIC FEEDBACK to increase our immersion in VR. If it can help out around the house, that is just a great side-effect.

I have plenty of motion control components around here. Perhaps I need to start designing an "ExoHaptic EasyChair", and I could use my protoype to start a Kickstarter campaign, perhaps. Do baby boomers invest in Kickstarters?

But the REAL fun with the ExoHaptic EasyChair comes when you put on your start "Putting on the Rift", then you sit back and relax while the "Rift Rider" experience takes you on a "rip roaring adventure"...

I see that Disney is playing with a haptic feedback chair:
http://www.disneyresearch.com/project/s ... periences/

I hope I do not get stepped on by that giant mouse...

[geekmaster]

For a haptic feedback chair, here is a good design to emulate for the basic ExoHaptic EasyChair model:

Inada Sogno Dreamwave Massage Chair



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qodoTeipAUg[/youtube]

And this version even has "isolation chamber"-style foot soaking:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXe-eyJDLdE[/youtube]

If we could control this with our VR apps, that would be wonderful.

Our DIY ExoHaptic EasyChair would just begin there, and add so much more, with VR haptic feedback being its primary purpose.

This would be the core of a truly great "Ironman suit".

[Leahy]

I've always thought that stand-up and sit-down VR really need to be merged into some sort of haptic chair that can adjust between 30°-70° depending on our lethargy. IMHO one of the main reasons consoles have been so much more popular in the past as opposed to PC gaming is the simple difference between being able to put your feet up and be comfortable on a couch and having to sit at a desk to use your mouse and keyboard.

Pic just for geekmaster's idea of toilet integrated chair

[geekmaster]

... Pic just for geekmaster's idea of toilet integrated chair

Back at ya!

[Leahy]

Now those are serious WORKstations

[geekmaster]

Now those are serious WORKstations

For those with serious intestinal fortitude...

[geekmaster]

I am thinking that the "Rift Rider Experience" should come in four basic flavors, three that include various models of ExoHaptic EasyChair brand of recumbent exosuit:

For those who are still saving their pennies to buy these luxurious VR accessories, we recommend starting out with the basic and easily affordable "Rift Rider":

"Rift Rider": An inexpensive portable device that plugs in between your basic economy model family PC, and your shiny new Oculus Rift, to provided the low-latency 60-Hz "PTZ" head-tracking required for an immersive VR experience, even when your PC is struggling to keep up with any modern VR game. This package comes with built-in "Plug & Play" software, that provides an fully immersive and intuitive VR "amusement park" environment in which to explore, play games, ride virtual rides (including a built-in extreme roller coaster simulator), and even to launch external VR applications from your hard drive. The "Rift Rider" accessory also supports using those old console gaming peripherals sitting in your closet. Just plug them in, and your computer will detect them as a composite super "Human Input Device". Now we're talking! (Oculus Rift not included).

"Easy Rider": A luxurious fully-accessorized easy chair, with all the built-in haptic feedback functionality needed for an enjoyable leisurely afternoon at the amusement park. Just lay back and relax, and get ready for the "ride" of your life! Just the ticket for the aging baby boomer crowd, who do not wish to bother with aches and pains from needing to actually WORK to enjoy the game. Options available including built-in refrigerator for your favorite snacks and beverages.

"Rough Rider": For those in their mid-life crisis days, responsibly supporting their families while wishing for a taste of the "wild" side of life. This model can give you a rough and satisfying workout, saving you from the trouble of travelling to the gym. And when you are home alone, it can help relieve your pent-up stress from that stressfully mundane but terribly necessary job. Perfect therapy for your all-too-frequent PTSB symptoms. (Adult haptic sex toys not included).

"G-Force Extreme": A heart-pumping rush for those 20-something adrenaline junkies, just dying for their turn to jump out of the plane, or jump off the cliff, or wide the wild stallion, or ride a kayak over that thousand-foot waterfall! For all but the most jaded adrenaline whores, this exohaptic device is sure to make your heart skip a beat, while you scream with a grin on your face! (Advice from your medical professional recommended before using this device).

And all of these models will be released with full DIY plans, to support the "Maker" community! Parts and kits will also be available to those "DIY Makers" who do not want to scrounge and harvest all of their own parts.

Now, we just need to get this ready for Kiickstarter!

[WiredEarp]

For a haptic feedback chair, here is a good design to emulate for the basic ExoHaptic EasyChair model:

Inada Sogno Dreamwave Massage Chair

Yep, thats pretty much the same inclination and seating position as the anti gravity chair I was considering using. RPO had it right with its 'haptic chairs' IMHO. I think building the walker and force feedback (and later, force feedback for arms etc) into a chair simplifies most of the design considerations, averts the stress of standing, etc. There is no danger of falling over etc like in vertical position LP's.

Of course, none of these are really new ideas, I first got on the track of this one back when I watched Lawnmower Man for the first time

[geekmaster]

Notice next time you go out for a walk. Except when looking up to take your bearings (or enjoy the scenery), your gaze keeps the horizon high in your FoV, so that you can see in your lower FoV where you are about to place your feet. It is natural to avoid stepping on things that could trip you. We normally keep our gaze on the path ahead, not at the horizon. It would be good to keep the horizon near the top of our FoV when we hold our heads in a relaxed and balanced vertical posture. This is also how we are supposed to adjust our desktop monitors (center of screen well below horizon, and screen top no more than 15-degrees above true horizon), to minimize long-term neck strain.

In VR however, the VR horizon should be similar to the real horizon. The primary except to that rule is if you are using a recumbent walking simulation (as I am designing into my ExoHaptic EasyChair design), where you are actually laying back at an incline (greatly simplifying ODT-like self-directed and haptic feedback motion control and proprioceptive feedback). I am currently working with double-pin hinges for the powered joint supports. Here is an example of double-pin joint hinges:



What you cannot see until you take it apart is that the two side supports have messing gear teeth on them, that engage behone the oval pin retainer, causing exactly mirrored rotation about both hinges. This is important to model sliding rotation of the ball-and-socket joint inside the knee.

To minimize weight and cost, I am relying on actual bones and joints where low-force can be used, such as hands and fingers. But where more force and weight is required, we provide external support for safety. I am not ready for a kickstarter yet, but this is one of many projects I am working on. This haptic feedback project has been in my mind (and notebooks) for decades, since VR first bit me in the 90's. I completed a "proof-of-concept" working model of a haptic glove a couple of years ago (proof enough for me, at least). With the Rift reinvigorating VR, it is time for me to complete my haptics project.

I need to put the VR horizon significantly into the sky (but low enough that "old fogeys" do not get floaters settling on their retinas). For normal upright sitting or standing, the VR and RL horizons should match closely, IMHO. Otherwise balance will be "recalibrated", causing minor balance problems for about 10 minutes after exiting VR (which most people will not even notice, but neck strain can still be an issue).

[WiredEarp]

Those double pin joints look good to me. I know what you mean about lots of projects! I also have sketches and designs for feedback gloves (most of which I discovered have already been invented, including my bike cable design), external force feedback systems, etc, dating back 20+ years in some cases, but most are impractical or too complex for me to build. I just dont have the time and/or crafting skills to build them

By 'haptic glove' are you referring ot one that can model different picked up objects (fist/wrist/finger/palm feedback) or one that allows you to model external forces acting against your hand (allowing you to model virtual weight, recoil, etc)?

I agree with the stuff about the horizon. Also one problem with a laid back position is the weight of the HMD. When sitting vertically, the HMD is balanced on your neck. When lying back, it isn't, and so if the HMD is not very lightweight, it could cause neck strain. You might be able to alleviate this with mechanical support of the HMD of some type however...

The Lawnmower Man, while it had a terrible plot, actually had some good ideas. The reclining position, the 'floating/flying/falling' demo, that game that he played with the kids, that involved lying on motion platforms and flying virtual flying machines using 2 joysticks attached to the platform. All good ideas and ones we will see eventually IMHO.

[geekmaster]

Berkeley Bionics Human Exoskeleton:
[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdK2y3lphmE[/youtube-hd]

[WiredEarp]

@ CyberReality: missed that Handyman link till now. Wow! Just shows that pretty much everything we are wanting to implement has been done already. The important thing for us is reducing this expensive tech into something cheap and safe.

GE did some great stuff, I remember they had a 'walking truck' prototype as well, controlled by legs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMGCFLEYakM

[EdZ]

Don't forget this arm, predecessor to the Hardiman/Man Amplifier project:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR582T-xie8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7JGB3ATdTU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toTWhPTyqg8

[Kra]

This is the only recent thread I could find talking about haptic feedback, and although this isn't about tactile exoskeleton, I didn't feel it warranted its own thread and this felt the most appropriate place.

I was watching this;
[youtube-hd]http://youtube.com/watch?v=yVgcbMWoGpU?t=2m29s[/youtube-hd]
And at about 2m30s he looks straight at some flames and I thought to myself, imagine if you could feel that as well. Then I remembered Sony put a patent on a Move controller that could give a cold or warm sensation and I wondered what it would take to put something in the foam lining of the goggles to achieve this.

Just imagine walking up to flames like that and feeling the glow, or stepping into a blizzard and feeling chill on your face. If the changes could be made to be responsive; dabs of cold to simulate rain, a slap of heat to show you just hit in the head.

I haven't had a chance myself to investigate if this is even possible with what we have today, just had the idea before calling it a night :]

[TheHolyChicken]

EDIT: he fixed the link, my post is now irrelevant.

[Kra]

Yeah sorry, as you can see haven't had much experience posting here, took a few attempts

[Kra]

While searching around for my idea up there, I came across this:

Using Electroactive Polymers to Simulate the Sense of Light Touch
and Vibration in a Virtual Reality Environment

Thought some of you might be interested in that.