No DOOM BFG with Oculus Rift

Post by **IGameArt** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:49 pm

I dont care what games will or will not be playable with my rift when it arrives. What i'm excited about is the content that i'm going to be developing with it, and the content that will come pouring out days after it's arrival.

Post by **Namielus** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:53 pm

IGameArt wrote:I dont care what games will or will not be playable with my rift when it arrives. What i'm excited about is the content that i'm going to be developing with it, and the content that will come pouring out days after it's arrival.

Amen brother

Post by **KBK** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:59 pm

Namielus wrote:
IGameArt wrote:I dont care what games will or will not be playable with my rift when it arrives. What i'm excited about is the content that i'm going to be developing with it, and the content that will come pouring out days after it's arrival.
Amen brother

+1 ('cept I don't do content) (For your app, I'm the last guy you should be lashing out at. I'm the guy who is going to work hard to make you app look awesome, as it is an image within an image... and that...is all about image quality limits)

Post by **geekmaster** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:00 pm

IGameArt wrote:I dont care what games will or will not be playable with my rift when it arrives. What i'm excited about is the content that i'm going to be developing with it, and the content that will come pouring out days after it's arrival.

I bought mine for development too. Doom BFG was just a bonus. But I planned to used BFG mainly as a showpiece for demoing my RDK. Now we will have other demo stuff available instead, as part of the SDK. All I cared about was that it came with SOMETHING to make it "plug & play", and it looks like that will certainly be true.

In fact, weren't the original Rift Dev Kits supposed to be WITHOUT a tracker? If so, that is a huge bonus right there. Smile, we are not there yet. But it will be worth the wait. I promise...

Post by **geekmaster** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:02 pm

KBK wrote:
Namielus wrote:
IGameArt wrote:I dont care what games will or will not be playable with my rift when it arrives. What i'm excited about is the content that i'm going to be developing with it, and the content that will come pouring out days after it's arrival.
Amen brother
+1 ('cept I don't do content)

I plan to blur the lines between doing and making and just playing. Building stuff will just be part of the game...

Post by **bizarrobrian** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:10 pm

Day 0 hardware != Day 0 consumer content

That is the point of a developer kit...and they made that fact very clear during the initial kickstarter process. I remember every interview I saw had Palmer AND Carmack stressing that people who are looking for a consumer product on delivery should NOT order one.

I'm sure the Oculus team has been making their rounds at the major development houses trying to get future support for 2013 titles. For now, enjoy the tech demos and the knowledge that you will eventually be playing a Rift ready game sometime before the Rift hardware commercial release. Also, the community is large and driven to implement immediate support for existing titles...Perception, Vorpx, and Quake 3 are proof of that.

That being said, it sounds like they are gearing up for some major announcements at GDC for development teams who are committed to implementing Rift support. Perhaps we can all cross our fingers that Bioshock Infinite will have launch support

Post by **2EyeGuy** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:35 pm

Yay! An Update! I guess they listened to me. I'll have to be careful what I say if people are actually going to listen to me

.
It's so cool that the flurry of information has started! And lots of good news is coming on the horizon.

I think they should have titled the update "24 hours to update shipping information" though. The shipping information stuff has so far been hidden as an appendix to updates on other topics. Probably not a problem given how keen we are for information though.

Doom 3 is now $29.99 USD on the Australian Steam store too. I don't know if Steam suddenly decided to jack up the price to coincide with the Rift's release. So I'm going to be $10 out of pocket. But that's OK, since Oculus are probably out of pocket on this too.

KBK, Thodder7, and whoever else was worried about Doom 3 BFG not having Oculus Rift support, shouldn't worry. It won't be ready on Day 0, since we don't have access to the SDK yet (speaking of which, if developer kits are shipping tomorrow, shouldn't we get access to the developer center or SDK sometime soon?), but it will come. Doom 3 BFG is open source (except the Bink movie playing code), and we have thousands of developers just itching to add Rift support to something. Doom 3 BFG is very easy to build, just opening the file and clicking Build worked for me, which was a pleasant change. I will be absolutely shocked if Doom 3 BFG doesn't end up having excellent Rift support. And of course there's still the possibility that John Carmack is hurriedly coding it right now, and official support will be only a short time away. Either way, Doom 3 BFG will have Rift support if people can wait a while.

I won't be getting my Rift for ages, but it's awesome to hear that the first batch will be shipped out very soon. The queue is starting to move!

Post by **squibbfire** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:41 pm

I just got back from drinking...and I get this no doom email...JESUS DOES OCULUS WANT ME TO BURN MY HOUSE DOWN!!!!!!! HAHAHA

Post by **HarleyMills** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:52 am

Thodder7 wrote:Why did they wait to tell us? I feel like they didn't want to give us much time to decide to back out of our purchase. They know we've all been super excited and waiting for this... They know we wouldn't want to wait all this time for nothing... and with a ton of them shipping very soon... they don't give us much time. Not that I want my money back.. I just hope there is content available to fully experience this... available when I get my RIFT kit. I at least hope we get the Citadel demo, and I would really like Hawken support by the time the rift arrives.

Chill out Thodder, it's not that big a deal. Anyway dude, you aren't a developer. Why did you order a DEVELOPER KIT? I think you should just ask for your money back. You could put it towards a retail version and let someone else (who can actually do something useful with a Rift) move up in line.

Post by **Tirregius** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:18 am

Almost a non issue for me if I were in the queue for a copy of D3BFG....that said, I feel for John Carmack a bit as I'm almost certain this is not his doing and likely has to do with Zenimax's intellectual property. I can tell you right now I personally would not select either of the "gifts" put forth by Oculus as a compensation. As I remember it, JC said he would provide the game at his expense and I would feel bad taking a cash gift from Oculus. I completely understand they feel obligated to do something, but the big picture is that it was a bonus put up by a third party and complications arose. I say no biggie and let's not make them pay for it, assuming the above details are correct. Leave that cash in Oculus' coffer.

Post by **Charge** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:31 am

Palmer and Oculus have said on multiple occasions that you should not have ordered this if you are not a dev, so while its a little disappointing, it's not a biggie as we will be developing our own content.

That said, even if Doom 3 doesn't have rift support yet, why can't it be given as a gift anyway?

Post by **Flassan** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:15 am

I don't see any reason to assume this wasn't a mature and considered decision between the Oculus and Zenimax teams.
When the Rift first becomes available a lot of people will want to try it and their first impressions are critical to the future of Oculus.
If Doom happens to be particularly challenging material for anyone unused to HMDs or even playing FPS games then it's better to delay it's release.
If it wasn't for John Carmack's support Oculus probably wouldn't exist and that would have been a great shame.

As a tiny token of support for the courageous work these guys are doing I won't be selecting any rebate option.

Post by **Marulu** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:32 am

Flassan wrote:As a tiny token of support for the courageous work these guys are doing I won't be selecting any rebate option.

Even if you don´t chose one, you still are going to get the 25$ coupon for the Oculus VR store.

Post by **diwata** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:39 am

But he can then not actually spend it on the store.

Post by **Leahy** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:04 am

Oh well, I was excited when Palmer was looking to sell only 100 kits that we'd have to put together ourselves, that and for $200 more. I think it does reflect rather poorly on John Carmack more so than Oculus though. I think store credit is fine since they were saying that eventually they want to sell positional tracking upgrades for the dev kit before selling the consumer version

Post by **Kirito** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:20 am

NZstory wrote:Doom to me was always a bonus and the $300 I pledged was for the headset not a GAME that included a headset. I do feel pretty stink for Oculus to have to cough up $20 because of this. I guess after all the pitchfork welding folk out there who got up in arms over the December delay they had no choice.

Can they add a 3rd option to the Replacement Rewards - $20 towards therapy sessions for the Oculus Team for the flak they are going to get over this on the Kickstarter page.

i totaly agree, the limited doom copies where a gift from carmack and we all now that.

its not fair that oculus needs to pay that mutch....

Post by **Okta** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:25 am

Disappointed? Yes but we could see this coming. It has been somewhat obvious and discussed here for many months regarding the (non) status of Doom3 so this is no surprise. $20? Not much use, would rather put it towards Vorpx or something, maybe a OR supported game from Steam?. I have backed a few things on KS and it is apparent Oculus updates aren't a strong point.

Oh well, there will be other content. Doom3 would have been pretty cool out of the box for some quality VR scare's though.

Post by **GeraldT** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:27 am

AWESOME --- HAWKEN will be available when I get my Rift. That is soooo cool! I think that game is like a thousand times better suited to give a great VR experience than Doom 3. Sitting will work fine with it, and I hope getting seasick will be less of an issue. Good news!

Happy I didn't buy the game ahead of time - that would have actually made me angry, because it's much too expensive anyway.

And I feel sorry for the guys at the other end at support@ ... especially with all those post kickstarter guys being confused "I can't find my reward selection!"

Post by **FR3D** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:43 am

Hallo,

i'm not a developer - i only ordered the oculus rift for playing doom ...

now i'm getting a piece of hardware without any confirmed working software .. i'm very disappointed about that.

i hope that some cool modder will find a way to make something working well with the occulus rift ...

FR3D

Post by **Callezetter** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:46 am

Getting close guys! I cant wait to start making my own worlds in unity.
Doom3 is just delayed due to tecnical or businiess reasons.
IdSoftware/Zenimax is the first to realise Rifts potential, and im sure they are working
towards something spectacular. They really wanna blow peoples minds with your first
venture into VR. Im 100% sure. So no Doom3, dont really break anything at all for me.
Im soo exicted with all little cool "dream" projects ppl are tinkeing on, and that we the
backers get to test soon. Great times!

Post by **2EyeGuy** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:46 am

GeraldT wrote:And I feel sorry for the guys at the other end at support@ ... especially with all those post kickstarter guys being confused "I can't find my reward selection!"

What do you mean? I found the reward selection. I chose the $20 steam voucher, because I still want Doom 3 BFG edition with my Rift, even though Doom 3 BFG costs $29.99 on Steam. I don't know what happens if Doom 3 BFG gets Rift support before the preorders ship.

Post by **2EyeGuy** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:01 am

FR3D wrote:Hallo,

i'm not a developer - i only ordered the oculus rift for playing doom ...

now i'm getting a piece of hardware without any confirmed working software .. i'm very disappointed about that.

i hope that some cool modder will find a way to make something working well with the occulus rift ...

FR3D

You need to understand the issue here... This is the developer kit for developers. Without the developer kit, developers can't develop. So there won't be confirmed working software until developers have the developer kit. Which means after you get your kit, you have to be prepared to wait a few days, or a week, or a few weeks, for confirmed working software. Oculus is working super hard to get the developer kit out to tens of thousands of developers, probably at a loss, so they can make software for you. Just give them some time with the hardware to do that. You haven't been forgotten.

The Rift will have a ridiculously high amount of software support very soon.

Post by **GeraldT** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:03 am

2EyeGuy wrote:
GeraldT wrote:And I feel sorry for the guys at the other end at support@ ... especially with all those post kickstarter guys being confused "I can't find my reward selection!"
What do you mean? I found the reward selection. I chose the $20 steam voucher, because I still want Doom 3 BFG edition with my Rift, even though Doom 3 BFG costs $29.99 on Steam. I don't know what happens if Doom 3 BFG gets Rift support before the preorders ship.

Then you either kickstarted it or were in the group of the first 1000 website buyers. I wasn't, so I don't have that option. I have seen at least one comment on Facebook where the guy had the same issue.

Post by **2EyeGuy** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:18 am

GeraldT wrote:
2EyeGuy wrote:
GeraldT wrote:And I feel sorry for the guys at the other end at support@ ... especially with all those post kickstarter guys being confused "I can't find my reward selection!"
What do you mean? I found the reward selection. I chose the $20 steam voucher, because I still want Doom 3 BFG edition with my Rift, even though Doom 3 BFG costs $29.99 on Steam. I don't know what happens if Doom 3 BFG gets Rift support before the preorders ship.
Then you either kickstarted it or were in the first 1000 website buyers. I wasn't, so I don't have that option. I have seen at least one comment on Facebook where the guy had the same issue.

Order ID: 020062

Purchase Date: Sep 26, 2012 10:59 AM PDT

Order Status: Ready - Your order is ready! We'll notify you as soon as it's shipped.
...
Reward Replacement:

Please select a substitute reward to replace DOOM 3 BFG Edition. If you still want DOOM 3 BFG Edition (without Oculus Rift support), it can be purchased on Steam using the Steam Wallet credit below.

$20 Steam Wallet credit, perfect for buying your next game on Steam. More details on Steam Wallet can be found at Steam Support.
$25 Oculus Store credit, which can be applied to future purchases at the Oculus Store including Oculus Latency Testers, new Oculus t-shirts, and more Rift development kits.
Replacement rewards will be delivered April 2013.

Dev Kit # Reward Option Status
1 $20 Steam Wallet Code Pending delivery

Note that they changed timezones for the order info, it's no longer GMT.

Post by **przecinek** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:09 am

Very dissapointed at the news.

I'm not dev, but I am a die hard VR enthusiast and always considered Doom3 to be a perfect game for VR, even back in the E-magin HMD days.

The fact that Doom was supposed to be the first 'Oculus ready game' was definitely an important factor for some of us buyers.

Oculus rose to fame thanks to Carmack support, like some other posters here I'm worried if everything is fine between him and Palmer.
In general this is not the kind of news I expected to hear. It shows that some of the theories and speculations here are not all that paranoic and have some merit after all. Too bad we don't know the reasons behind this decision.

Post by **FR3D** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:16 am

You need to understand the issue here... This is the developer kit for developers. Without the developer kit, developers can't develop. So there won't be confirmed working software until developers have the developer kit. Which means after you get your kit, you have to be prepared to wait a few days, or a week, or a few weeks, for confirmed working software. Oculus is working super hard to get the developer kit out to tens of thousands of developers, probably at a loss, so they can make software for you. Just give them some time with the hardware to do that. You haven't been forgotten.

The Rift will have a ridiculously high amount of software support very soon.

Sorry but as i ordered the rift, i understood that doom3 will be fully compatible with the launch of the rift developer version ...
doom3 was shown and promoted as demo application for the rift @ some exhibitions - so what is the problem now ?

is it Zentimax problem, or a software issue ?

And why are these problems have been discovered just before shipping of the developer kits ??

FR3D

Post by **Diorama** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:26 am

For me this changes nothing. Mostly because, as a post-post-post-kickstarter backer I was never going to receive the game.

I also thought it was only the first 100 kickstarter backers, but have no idea where I got that idea.

$20 x 8000 = $160,000 (given 7000 kickstarter backers + 1000 first website pre-orders)

I think that is the reason for the super-late announcement, damage control. I can imagine that Oculus are very conscious of upsetting the (rabid) community, and wanted to let us down easy, but also needed to not kill themselves financially.

I don't think too much should be read into it and I don't think it's a big deal at all. I had kind of assumed Doom was not happening a while ago, no mention of the game from either Carmack or Oculus in ages.

Honestly, I think whatever announcements are made at GDC on the 26th will blow this into insignificance.

Post by **V8Griff** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:31 am

Diorama wrote: I also thought it was only the first 100 Kickstarter backers, but have no idea where I got that idea.

iirc before it went ballistic on Kickstarter John Carmack said he'd give 100 copies away funded out of his own pocket.

Post by **rmcclelland** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:39 am

Yeah, no Doom 3 BFG support at launch is definitely a bummer. Hope I find another use for my brand new Xbox 360 controller.

However, this news is overshadowed by the fact that my Rift is shipping next week!

Well played Oculus, well played.

Also hoping for a big announcement at GDC.

Could it be that the Doom 3 experience just wasn't great?

Post by **2EyeGuy** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:53 am

rmcclelland wrote:Could it be that the Doom 3 experience just wasn't great?

No, I don't think so. Didn't you see the reactions of people who tried Doom 3 on the Rift prototype?

Post by **rwurdig** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:57 am

GeraldT wrote:
2EyeGuy wrote:
GeraldT wrote:And I feel sorry for the guys at the other end at support@ ... especially with all those post kickstarter guys being confused "I can't find my reward selection!"
What do you mean? I found the reward selection. I chose the $20 steam voucher, because I still want Doom 3 BFG edition with my Rift, even though Doom 3 BFG costs $29.99 on Steam. I don't know what happens if Doom 3 BFG gets Rift support before the preorders ship.
Then you either kickstarted it or were in the group of the first 1000 website buyers. I wasn't, so I don't have that option. I have seen at least one comment on Facebook where the guy had the same issue.

Probably is that, im in the first 1000 website buyers (I got a confirmation email from oculus about that soon after I buy when I asked them if I was in the 1000 first batch), and I have acess to the reward section.
Im a little bit frustrate about the doom3d thing, but this is a devkit so I know it could happen.
The only thing is worrying me right now is when I pre-ordered the website stated march delivery, but every update I saw on oculus stated pre-orders should arrive in late april.
Besides that im happy

Post by **Parallaxis** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:59 am

rmcclelland wrote:Yeah, no Doom 3 BFG support at launch is definitely a bummer. Hope I find another use for my brand new Xbox 360 controller.

However, this news is overshadowed by the fact that my Rift is shipping next week!

Could it be that the Doom 3 experience just wasn't great?

I think so, that also explains why they haven't used Doom 3 since E3 for demoing.

Post by **KBK** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:28 am

Other people are now working on adding doom functionality in, so it won't be long in coming. They were not working on it before, as it was expected to be a given. Now that they know it is not, they are working on it. A minor delay. They have even opened a few "don't panic, we're on it" threads on this very subject.

Post by **Endothermic** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:30 am

Well now we find out how many people that pledged for a RIFT devkit were not part of the demographic that the devkit was actually targetted at and mentioned over and over in interviews

Post by **squibbfire** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:34 am

Charge wrote:Palmer and Oculus have said on multiple occasions that you should not have ordered this if you are not a dev, so while its a little disappointing, it's not a biggie as we will be developing our own content.

That said, even if Doom 3 doesn't have rift support yet, why can't it be given as a gift anyway?

developer...OR hard core enthusiast...

Post by **WiredEarp** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:43 am

I, like most, am a bit bummed Doom 3 is not going to be supplied with the Rift, at least until people hack a decent version (which I doubt will take long, given the talent on this site).

However, I ordered my Rifts for development, not just to play a rather old ID game. That said, I was really looking forwards to being able to demo the Rift to people, with a game they will recognize, and be able to say 'wow, this is so much better'. For that reason, its a bit annoying. That said, i'll be happy to just get my Rifts, although I really do hope that there will be some sort of playable demo supplied with it, that I can just load up, put the Rift on, and show people 'This is what I've been talking about'.

Really, I think this is more a loss for id than anyone. They had the chance to become known for having the first consumer VR game, and have blown it totally. I don't really see the point of Doom 3 BFG without Rift support (until its hacked in). Its just the same old Doom3, with a few minor tweaks, from what I can see. Now Hawken or some other game will be the one to go down in history. Missed opportunity there IMHO!

All of this wasn't really a surprise however, I've noticed a total blackout on mentions of Doom 3 BFG and Rift support for a fair while now. It would be nice to know why id didn't wish to support the Rift however, I thought the code was already done, and despite the difference in Rift screen size, and possible required changes to the warping, I doubt that would take someone of Johns calibre more than a few hours to support. Not supporting it for IP reasons also seems a bit off, as I doubt it would require any new wizzy tech from their latest engine just to support HMDs.

One possibility is that id wish to get into the VR business themselves. They might not wish to support a competing product, if they have seen the interest in VR caused by the Rift, and have decided there is money to be made there. This might have led them to think about releasing a VR headset themselves.

Post by **densohax** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:49 am

Seriously guys, don't waste your time on Doom3, there will be a lot more content soon and Doom3 will be supported anyway, by indies or eventually by Carmack (in fact it's already done since it was demoed, it's just a political thing).

And it's almost guaranteed that the SDK will have demos, unity and udk are rift ready and they have tons of playable demos, so I wouldn't panic about that, and you are supposed to be able to develop your own content anyway..

Post by **crespo80** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:03 am

It's clear as day, this is not a technical problem.
Someone didn't allow the operation, either Zenimax or Carmack himself (who initially said he would have negotiated a bunch of D3 copies directly from the publishers for kickstarters), maybe because they didn't find an agreement on the price or because some other hidden marketing manouvre.
Either case, we lose one of the only two games with rift support at launch.

Back in the day, the early 90s, Doom was the first game that showed me an amazing (for the time) Virtual Reality (intended as exploring a 3D CG world), a game that I love and that I wished it would have made me jump into this new VR era

Post by **zalo** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:06 am

Perhaps they agreed to it until someone told them how many people pre-ordered devkits. Once that got to them, they realized that they could make a whole lot more on this Doom 3:BFG thing just by having this desperate fan-base buy it themselves. Cynically, it's all about money. Not dreams, or pleasing the fan-base, just money. The former two are just a means to an end (when appropriate).

Good on Oculus for this (more than likely) out of pocket refund.

Post by **KBK** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:06 am

Well, I'm technically in the second batch, it will probably be ready for me when the time comes.

(The earlier video listed by me, pg 1, was pure humor. Interestingly enough, it is Irish priests, and it's St. Paddy's Day)