PS3 back catalogue unlikely to go 3D (Interview with MTBS)

[metalqueen]

Brand new interview with Neil!

Sony PS3 back catalogue unlikely to go 3D
Leading expert in stereoscopic gaming gives us the skinny
by Stuart Miles

Sony's ability to retrospectively turn all games on the PS3 into 3D is unlikely to become a reality according to the President of the S-3D Gaming Alliance.

"We aren't sure how the rumour started, but it is unlikely to be possible for Sony to make all games on the PS3 3D retrospectively," Neil Schneider, who also happens to run Meant to be Seen (MTBS), the world's first and only stereoscopic 3D Certification and Advocacy group, told Pocket-lint in a one to one interview.

The news is likely to be a blow to those who got excited by the comments from a Sony exec reported at IFA in Berlin in Germany at the beginning of September.

Read the whole story here: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/27319/p ... t-going-3d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[cybereality]

Unlikely, yes, but I still think it could be possible.

[DmitryKo]

Again, that would only be possible if game publishers decided to re-engineer their older games for stereo 3D, and that's never going to happen, unless Sony gets to this task themselves. Did we really need to reiterate everything said in PS3's new 3D mode coming in 2010 to all existing games?

[metalqueen]

You are missing the point. Did you read the whole article? The story really has nothing to do with PS3. It's an interview with Neil, and he's talking about MTBS and S3DGA. It's some acknowledgment for all of our efforts.

[cybereality]

Again, that would only be possible if game publishers decided to re-engineer their older games for stereo 3D, and that's never going to happen, unless Sony gets to this task themselves. Did we really need to reiterate everything said in PS3's new 3D mode coming in 2010 to all existing games?

Like I said in that thread, it may be possible to create stereo visuals using the z-buffer, similar to the DDD "Virtual-3D" mode. Before you start getting into some technical jargon, just stop right there and think about it for a second. Sony created and owns the hardware, PS3. They created and control the proprietary OS the PS3 runs (and could easily offer a firmware update). They created the API used to make the games. The created and own the 3D HDTVs they are making. So from start to finish they have total control over all the equipment, they can basically do whatever the hell they want. If this means adding in a proprietary 3D cable that only works on Sony tvs, so be it. But it can be done.

[DmitryKo]

Did you read the whole article? The story really has nothing to do with PS3.

And that's the reason why you only quoted a specific paragraph where Neil talks about PS3. It makes sense.

Before you start getting into some technical jargon, just stop right there

OK. You seem to believe that it makes for an interesting discussion when you just ingore anything that is contrary to your beliefs, but don't be surprised when you end up talking with yourself. I will not distract you anymore.

[Neil]

And that's the reason why you only quoted a specific paragraph where Neil talks about PS3. It makes sense.

She always quotes the first part of the article. It's unfortunate that a lot of blog sites rehash articles to make it look as thought it's their own original work ("Exclusive!" or "You heard it here first!", etc.). She follows this style to maintain the original's authenticity. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Regards,
Neil

[cybereality]

OK. You seem to believe that it makes for an interesting discussion when you just ingore anything that is contrary to your beliefs, but don't be surprised when you end up talking with yourself. I will not distract you anymore.

I'm sorry man, I didn't mean to be a prick. But in reality you are the one that seems to think you know everything and are not open to other people's views. Not me. I'm just saying.

[GordoSan]

First, I think its a great writeup for Neil and the MTBS staff! I stumbled across the MTBS website last year, and I have notice an increasing mention about the group in the media. It really seems to be snowballing, along with interest with 3D in general! Nice work!

As for the PS3 doing all games, well look at how the Xbox 360 does backward compatibility. Since changing from the Nvidia GPU in the original system to the ATI GPU they put in the 360, they could not make a universal EMU without paying serious royalties. Their solution was to do re-code each title themselves for an unspecified fee from Nvidia. They stated from the begining that they would just make key titles compatible. Well, they went over what they initially promissed. Still, even endless "M$" cash couldn't afford them every title.

I would expect something similar with Sony and 3D. There will not be a magic "3D button" that turns the effect on. Think about the different HUDs, power meters, and cross-hairs. Think about the film grain, and other non-depth-specific effects. Each title will have to have its own intent on how it will do 3D. How much time and resources will Sony put into old titles? Probably just enough that they feel is worth giving away for free.... unless they charge. (which would obviously backfire)

[martinlandau]

Cyber I watched this show called MADVENTURES last night about these psychopath russian types, they were like andrew zimmerman on speed. They went through the dead zone of chernobyl and dove off some russian buildings, really crazy. I know I have commented here before back at the international house in college I knew lots of folks from the ukraine and russia and croatia, but only the resort side of the country, not the goat herder side where the YUGO was made. Anyways one of these russian kids I knew back in college got him a russian girlfriend who was on the run from a police captain in Russia who was exKGB, well she got his credit card and learned about EBAY and well, it wasn't pretty. She hit em up blu cantrell style. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chmnh3D4r6g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; She wound up having to leave the country, he did too, and a few others did too. I was sad to see this proud russian girl so corrupted by easy american shopping trips. And recently some runins I have had with Russian folks further cement some of that bold brazen attitude. You know Putin hunted a wild animal, but DIck Cheney shot his lawyer in the face, so you draw your own conclusions who has the big ballz. DKO, what you just did to Metalqueen is totally uncalled for and has made me lose all respect for you. pathetic. What is it with you russians? You should treat women with respect, especially one who with Neil has given you a forum to learn and communicate with others. Boney M was right - oh you russians: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvDMlk3kSYg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; NO NO just kidding, don't be offended DKO, it is all in jest, I know we can share a bottle of vodka and laught it all off!

[cybereality]

Also, just to prove my point that anything is possible, check this out: Back in 2005, some random 3rd party company called Splitfish was able to add stereoscopic 3D support to a select number of PS2 games using generic shutter glasses and their proprietary dongle: http://www.i4u.com/section-viewarticle-112.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So this random no-name 3rd party, with no low-level access to the hardware, without an intimate knowledge of the API and without the source code to any of those games was able to get shutter glass 3D support on the PS2, yet it is somehow "impossible" for Sony to do the same with their own platform. I don't know...

[DmitryKo]

I didn't mean to be a prick. But in reality you are the one that seems to think you know everything and are not open to other people's views.

No, I'm not open to "views" that conflict with the knowledge gained with my engineering degree and from my college courses on hardware and software development, even though they are attractive to a consumer in me. And I don't push my "views" on the topics which I know nothing about, such as rocket science, brain surgery, or knitting, as well as many others.

If you can't stand that, feel free to add me to your ignore list so you may fantasize as you please.

So this random no-name 3rd party, with no low-level access to the hardware, without an intimate knowledge of the API and without the source code to any of those games was able to get shutter glass 3D support on the PS2

I find it totally unbelieveable that a small company was able to hack the graphics hardware on a gaming console with some magic device attached to a game port. This is not how you design hardware by the book (well, except in the Hollywood movies). Besides that, there was no graphics programming API on the PS2. I mean it, no single API to hack. The game developer had to code everyting against multiple different coprocessors, and there were too many of them, even by console programming standards.

Imagine a $70 wired shutter glasses kit for the PC which comes with no software, attaches to the serial port and then magically makes some (but not all) of your games work in a flawless 3D stereo. I don't know about you, but I would assume the device is just a transmitter for the glasses, and it must be the game applications which make the work (just like flight simulatiors work with your TrackIR device, RS-232 command pads and other specific accessories).

Consoles are not different in this regard. The only reason eyeFX would ever work on the PlayStation 2 is SplitFish got these publishers (and maybe Sony) to support the device right from the start, so the game switches a custom rendering path when it the shutter glases are detected. Unfortunately, they only got sufficient number games to warrant the release of this accessory by the time when the PS2 was nearing the end of its life cycle.

look at how the Xbox 360 does backward compatibility. Since changing from the Nvidia GPU in the original system to the ATI GPU they put in the 360, they could not make a universal EMU without paying serious royalties. Their solution was to do re-code each title themselves for an unspecified fee from Nvidia. They stated from the begining that they would just make key titles compatible. Well, they went over what they initially promissed. Still, even endless "M$" cash couldn't afford them every title.

You have just repeated one of the points made in the previous discussion. Unfortunately, cyberreality was unconvinced.

[cybereality]

I don't feel like continuing this dumb argument. In all honesty I don't think Sony is going to convert their entire back catalog to 3D anyway, even assuming it was technically possible. I mean, they won't even continue legacy backward compatibility with PS1/PS2 games on the PS3 (and that is surely possible) so its doubtful they will bother with retro-actively supporting 3D on their library. However, I am still sticking by my claim that however unlikely it may be, it is within the realm of possibility. In that other thread I even gave a possible implementation using the z-buffer which should be possible given that the RSX chip is based on the Nvidia NV47 (Geforce 7800). And this method of 2D+depth taken from the z-buffer can produce a decent quality stereo image as seen in this Crysis video made with the DDD driver in Virtual 3D mode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3auOYN9EFQI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will concede that you are probably right, but if Sony pulls this off I will seriously pay for your plane ticket to fly to New York and kiss my butt!!!!!!

[DmitryKo]

I don't think Sony is going to convert their entire back catalog to 3D anyway, even assuming it was technically possible

That was the point.

this method of 2D+depth taken from the z-buffer can produce a decent quality stereo image as seen in this Crysis video made with the DDD driver in Virtual 3D mode

It still looks like cardboard miniature.

if Sony pulls this off I will seriously pay for your plane ticket to fly to New York and kiss my butt!!!!!!

From all I know, the State Department doesn't grant visas to Russians so easily.