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 MTBS Interviews: Andrew Fear, Product Marketing , NVIDIA S3D 
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AH, Ok thank you Nubie.

I am more specialized with my knowledge with iZ3D. I'm learning more and more as I go though ;)


Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:49 pm
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Sharp Eyed Eagle!

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Cool, I edited my last post a bit btw.

Just to be clear, a polarizing layer applied to the surface of a TV (DLP or CRT or LCD or Plasma), with one half circular left and the other half circular right polarized negates the need for any active circuitry, just wear a $3 pair of glasses and see in 3D :)

DLP has the color wheel advantage (until Laser DLP ditches the color wheel that is), because the wheel can be circular polarized, thus any display (front or rear projection) that preserves the polarization will work.

Now I won't say that shutterglasses can't work nearly as well or better, depending on the quality of the materials and workmanship, but passive seems good to me because when rendered you don't need to sync anything, charge anything, worry about breaking anything, you get my point: it is simpler.

Perhaps for larger displays it may not be cost effective, but if 3D starts to become mainstream we will see checkerboard polarization, it is too simple not to do (Zalman sells them for crying out loud, they just didn't make them checkerboard :( ).

All said and done, if nVidia wants to offer us $400 current market quality glasses for $100 and start supporting games properly I am all for it. But iZ3D seems to have better software, and you can build equal hardware simply, so I don't see the real draw until more info is released, which won't happen from nVidia. Did nvidia promise DirectX 7 support in Vista? That is hilarious considering their DX7 techdemos haven't even functioned in 2D display for about 5 years :D


Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:04 pm
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Two Eyed Hopeful

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What I still don't get is why you state that shutterglasses would be polarized.
I always thought they just go black and clear, where is the polarization there?

When I mean polarization I mean polarisation of rays of light so they are aligned to one angle like this | for left eye and this __ for right eye.

Are you sure shutterglasses do that kind of thing?

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Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:15 am
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nubie wrote:
Welder wrote:
Hmm I guess I need to learn more about shutter glasses :)

I was not aware that there was any polarization.. I thought they just flip on and off, or is that how they do it? By changing the polarization in the lenses?


I thought they were called LCD shutter glasses, and the LCD in the glasses goes from clear to um, not clear via LCD technology, which is polarization.

See the episode on watches by Tim Hunkin in "the Secret Life of Machines", he covers LCD tech (puts it together in front of your eyes and tests it!!)

I know of no shutter glasses that operate on any other method than LCD except some "spinning disk with holes in it" models for the Vectrex or Sega Genesis/Mega Drive.


Well I can't speak for all glasses, because I own only Elsa RVs. But these glasses are definitly polarized when they are off. I bet the LCD adds another polarizer at 90° to the first, so that there can about 0 light go through both these polarizer layers.
If the first (passive) polarizer isn't at right direction you get a black screen on LCDs when watching through it. I have it for LCD display of a watch or a neighbour when having a lan.

It makes sense if they always use the same technology. The only difference in the SG might be how much light they stop and how fast they shut... and how much of the 'right' light is lost :)

Oh and if you put 2 glasses over each other and one is turned by 90° it is black, too...

Well however DLP would be easy to change, but the producer has to agree... And you would need some internal doubling and switch between the images each frame - each halve circle of the wheel...

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Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:42 am
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da_giz wrote:
What I still don't get is why you state that shutterglasses would be polarized.
I always thought they just go black and clear, where is the polarization there?

When I mean polarization I mean polarisation of rays of light so they are aligned to one angle like this | for left eye and this __ for right eye.

Are you sure shutterglasses do that kind of thing?

Shutterglasses use a 1 pixel black&white LCD pannel for each eye. At least that's the way my elsa 3d-revelator work.

LCD pannel technology requires the use of 2 polarizers and the liquid cristal layer which is able to modify the angle of polarisation depending on the electric charge applied to them.
I'm not an physician or an LCD engineer so i won't tell you much more on how or why.

Search the internet for more info on polarisation and how to make an LCD pannel.


Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:49 am
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nubie wrote:
DLP has the color wheel advantage (until Laser DLP ditches the color wheel that is), because the wheel can be circular polarized, thus any display (front or rear projection) that preserves the polarization will work.


LED DLPs from Samsung ditched the color wheel long ago as well. These units support 3D DLP the same as the Mits that nVidia is pushing.

There are also FP solutions that are ditching the bulb, which is the achilles' heel of DLP tech. They are being replaced with LEDs as well. The LEDs will get brighter and brighter over time, as they have up to this point (which is why Samsung was able to do a 67" version this year).

Anyway, I wish someone in one of the many articles I've read would ask what the difference in nVidia support is for Mits and Samsung. Because it sure looks like it is exactly the same 120hz technology, and any advantage Mits would have over Samsung is artificially imposed by nVidia.


Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:07 am
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turls wrote:
Anyway, I wish someone in one of the many articles I've read would ask what the difference in nVidia support is for Mits and Samsung. Because it sure looks like it is exactly the same 120hz technology, and any advantage Mits would have over Samsung is artificially imposed by nVidia.


Well, the answer to question 2 in the article seems to be very clear that they won't artificially cripple display support:

Quote:
Our goal for display support is to enable as many displays as we can that support the new NVIDIA 3D glasses. As new displays come on the market that support high quality stereoscopic 3D, we will test them to make sure that they work with our 3D glasses and we’ll enable support in our software. We want to enable a large ecosystem with a large installed base of users, so this is not a licensing program for monitor makers to work with NVIDIA 3D glasses.

Right now our glasses support the new ViewSonic® pure 120 Hz LCDs, Mitsubishi® 3D DLP® HDTVs, generic Texas Instruments checkerboard pattern 3D, and analog CRTs that support at least 100 Hz refresh rate.


The "generic Texas Instruments checkerboard pattern 3D" applies to Samsung HDTVs (and nobody else, at this moment). I can understand that they mention Mitsubishi specifically and not Samsung, if Mitsubishi partners with them and Samsung does not.

I guess we'll only know for sure when the glasses come out.


Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:00 pm
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BlackShark wrote:
da_giz wrote:
What I still don't get is why you state that shutterglasses would be polarized.
I always thought they just go black and clear, where is the polarization there?

When I mean polarization I mean polarisation of rays of light so they are aligned to one angle like this | for left eye and this __ for right eye.

Are you sure shutterglasses do that kind of thing?

Shutterglasses use a 1 pixel black&white LCD pannel for each eye. At least that's the way my elsa 3d-revelator work.

LCD pannel technology requires the use of 2 polarizers and the liquid cristal layer which is able to modify the angle of polarisation depending on the electric charge applied to them.
I'm not an physician or an LCD engineer so i won't tell you much more on how or why.

Search the internet for more info on polarisation and how to make an LCD pannel.


If we had a set of shutters built specifically for the LCD in question we could use shutterglasses with only one polarizing layer, at the expense of educating consumers to understand what polarization their monitor has.

You would need adjustable glasses or 4 different ones. But it certainly isn't difficult to do.


Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:20 pm
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I hate the way that Andrew Fear guy just ignores the questions and says how great nVidia is...

What he's basically saying is "Buy our nVidia stuff, it's such fantastic quality. We don't care that you already have a 3D solution, and no, we won't support it anymore. We were unable to fix the bugs in our 162.50 solution, so we're gonna just scrap that idea. Spend your next paycheck on Vista and the monitor that we say you must buy. An HMD? What the hell is that? Shutter glasses, that's the future!"

Should I throw away my 3DVisor now?

My next graphics card will be an ATI!

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Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:26 pm
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I'm having a sinister wish lately: that all this promotion of stereo-3D finishes as soon as possible and we can have our 'legacy' stereo hardware working again instead of having it artificialy disabled due to economical interest (by means of the partialy restricted driver in question).
Nvidia is a company. Its target is not to give as video hardware or stereo-3D. It's here to make money, which is absolutely valid, of course! We all like money.

Now they are gazing a 'new' market and want to maximize the benefits that could arise from it. But once all this fails (it will in my opinion) the economical interest will dissapear, as before, and we will have our driver working again with the same code that exists from a decade (I don't know for sure, is just a guess based on stereo-3D advertising in my old game magazines) that is a forbiden object of desire hidden in the vista driver right now (it's there, in some dll, in your very own computer!, but disabled, that's the most annoying).

I hope that, once everything ends, all this effort will mean a better infrastructure (specially software infrastructure) for us stereo freaks.

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Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:59 am
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Post Re:
crim3 wrote:
a forbiden object of desire hidden in the vista driver right now (it's there, in some dll, in your very own computer!, but disabled, that's the most annoying).


Im really surprised that no one has hacked these drivers yet. Can no one do it? I don’t know the first thing about hacking but I saw the movie “Hackers” so I know that Angelina Jolie can do it. So why cant we?

We should send a z800 to Angelina Jolie to get her interested. Oh wait, they cost like a billion dollars now. Now that I think about it, she is the only one who can even afford a z800 now


Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:02 am
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"Im really surprised that no one has hacked these drivers yet. Can no one do it?"

A president once said ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. Why don't you go to the library and read a few programming books - I think even MIT has many free courses on the internet now. Educate yourself and then contribute to the community. I can tell you now the path you have chosen for your life, constantly having others do for you and not doing for yourself will leave you with many frustrating nights in your future. The knowledge is out there to learn, it is only up to you to take the time and force it into your brain. Madonna said something about those whose happiness depends on the permission of another are really sad people, I saw her old boyfriend on TV the other night, vanilla ice - he said he didn't need madonna to be happy anymore. Break free from relying on others to bring your happiness - do for yourself young innovator!

"I don’t know the first thing about hacking but I saw the movie “Hackers” so I know that Angelina Jolie can do it. So why cant we?"

LOL! That is a very good question, how can any geek worth his salt accept being upstanded by the daughter of that guy that played midnight cowboy with ratso - if I were you the shame alone would make all my nights sleepless and I would spend all those insomniac hours reading about hacking and programming so that I wouldn't be left behind when Yuri brings "the matrix" to the masses and had some understanding of the technology I was implementing in my personal life. Sheesh - she let billy bob thornton tattoo stuff on her body - you have to be able to do better than her right? ;) She divorced that guy she filmed hackers with, she was way too smart for him and traded up to billy bob, the true kaiser soze of our day. Don't be outdone by her!

"We should send a z800 to Angelina Jolie to get her interested. Oh wait, they cost like a billion dollars now. Now that I think about it, she is the only one who can even afford a z800 now"

LOL! Why should she get so much money?!? I just saw her in that movie changeling and her performance was nothing special - but John Malkovich - he just gets better and better in every film I see that guy - I bet even that guy he played in "of mice and men" could spend some time reading some programming books couldn't he? ;)

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Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:48 am
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martinlandau wrote:
"Im really surprised that no one has hacked these drivers yet. Can no one do it?"

A president once said ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. Why don't you go to the library and read a few programming books - I think even MIT has many free courses on the internet now. Educate yourself and then contribute to the community. I can tell you now the path you have chosen for your life, constantly having others do for you and not doing for yourself will leave you with many frustrating nights in your future. The knowledge is out there to learn, it is only up to you to take the time and force it into your brain. Madonna said something about those whose happiness depends on the permission of another are really sad people, I saw her old boyfriend on TV the other night, vanilla ice - he said he didn't need madonna to be happy anymore. Break free from relying on others to bring your happiness - do for yourself young innovator!


Have youe ever heard from the principe of shared work?
No one can be specialist in all fields mostly you are specal in one subject, might two. And an specialist ist always better in his area than an allrounder. So lets have a look at the Industry (in example): While the Ingeneer is developing the Display panel of an IZ3D he has no knowlege of Programming. In the other way the Driver programmer doesn't know how an LCD panel is build. But when they work together they compile together an make an better End-Product than if one have leared the Programming and Engineering.

Your statement from above is some way of typical American motivation bla bla. "You have the power, You have the might, You can make it, We want you"
Shure ther have to be people that are contributing to the community, but I think Linus Towald can't tell you how an (Automobile-)engine work... There have to be specialist, when everyone knows everything we will be ther where we was: Single Individuals or small groups of people wandering arround in the wilderness, becaus there is no need to build up large communties.

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Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:49 am
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cirk2 wrote:
Have youe ever heard from the principe of shared work?


I did read a book called "the mythical man month" - can you explain the tenets of that work to me? Is it wrong?

"No one can be specialist in all fields mostly you are specal in one subject, might two."

Benjamin Franklin is rolling in his grave, quitters never win.

"And an specialist ist always better in his area than an allrounder."

The educated idiots I could tell you about when working at IBM.

"So lets have a look at the Industry (in example):"

Let me give you real world experience and take some of that rosy colored shine off your eyeballs, a long time ago in a galaxy far away there was this researcher working for a company called IBM in Armonk. He researched and developed new lithographic type processes to make chips smaller and faster and more efficient. Some MBA type who liked to play golf and was specialized in running numbers to profit from his stock options decided to shelve this stuff and put that guy in a dark cold closet where a mainframe freezer used to reside. The researcher was invited to play golf and to understand the value of stock options, but he grew restless and wandered off to somewhere in asia. Later on IBM got to license the very technology they paid to research and develop from some Asian company this guy was now working for - whodathunk? ;) The rube goldberg policies that make up the complexity of the modern world just don't fit into your simplified examples - devils and details frustrate a lot of people so they just choose not to deal with them.

"While the Ingeneer is developing the Display panel of an IZ3D he has no knowlege of Programming. In the other way the Driver programmer doesn't know how an LCD panel is build. But when they work together they compile together an make an better End-Product than if one have leared the Programming and Engineering."

Today the world economy is blowing up because nobody was able to see the forest for the trees anymore, too many specialists, too few leanardo davinci renaissance men, the proof is in the pudding, just turn on your tv or read your local news.

"Your statement from above is some way of typical American motivation bla bla."

Nation states and national pride is so last century.

"Shure ther have to be people that are contributing to the community, but I think Linus Towald can't tell you how an (Automobile-)engine work..."

He knew a lot about transmeta though didn't he? That flopped though - I asked my mazda dealer why there are not more rotary engines out there.

"There have to be specialist, when everyone knows everything we will be ther where we was: Single Individuals or small groups of people wandering arround in the wilderness, becaus there is no need to build up large communties."

I agree a lot with what you say, but my friend, a good citizen of the world is abreast of a great many different things, and too much specialization is as great a travesty as too little, moderation in all things. I like to think of all the humans in that scifi show LEXX who kept feeding the big bug, so specialized in their own little tasks they didn't know they were helping create their own armageddon. Kind like the financial blowup the world is going through now. The cube with that canadian scientist guy from stargate atlantis is also a good example.

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Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:19 am
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:shock:
Original thread direction --------->
Current thread direction <---------
:shock:


Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:32 pm
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The_Doctor wrote:
:shock:
Original thread direction --------->
Current thread direction <---------
:shock:


Variety is the spice of life, sometimes you have to take the road where it leads you ;)

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Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:11 pm
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that was one of the best posts ive ever read.


Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:48 pm
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