RealD LP Clone, Cheap Zscreen, passive polarization rotator

[martinlandau]

Still smarting from the time I let a couple zscreens on Ebay get passed me for only a couple hundred dollars, I found this:

http://www.lctecdisplays.com/files/data ... FPR-TN.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.lctecdisplays.com/Ordering__pricing.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Zscreen is costing about 2500 US dollars, this polarization rotator that works up to 400hz is only about 500 US dollars. Swedish company, have you heard of these guys Likay? How do you think the efficiency of this solution would compare to your 2 projectors with spars?

This should allow you to do RealD projection just like in the professional theaters. With the new 120hz projectors on the horizon and this "polarizing rotator" we should be able to get a nice solution for very cheap no?

However I am always interested in the "china price" as I know it is usually several orders of magnitude lower than the USA price. So likay or anyone, where is the 200 US dollar chinese polarization rotator? Where is REALD sourcing their polarization panel from?

[Likay]

The projector needs to shutter between left and right eye view for it to work. Which means needs for a proper shutterdriver (which also provides signal for the rotator). And because of the polarizing properties of the rotator you'll get about the same amount of light as for a shutterglass rig but with the difference of using passive glasses and a silverscreen.

[Jadentheman]

It would be good but only if you need it. I wouldn't get it know because there aren't any standards or 1080 120HZ projectors. At least it future proof up to 400hz

[PalmerTech]

I will try to source these from a cheaper company, or figure out a way to replicate them.

[Okta]

here's how I would do it using one projector:

get a DLP projector running properly in shutterglass mode. I have this already and am happy at 60 Hz.

use a 45 degree angled half-silvered mirror to deflect half the beam sideways onto a first-surface mirror that directs that beam onto your screen. Put your shutterglass lenses over the beams and make sure the outputs have opposite polarizations. The video is in sync with the lenses so it should work. I did a little test with this and wasn't happy with the light that got through my LCD glass and I was happy with my shutterglass setup already so I didn't go any further. Still, I just wanted to share this idea with you all. I suppose the reason to do this would be if you had an audience and not enough shutterglasses but did have enough polarized glasses. The view would still flicker as each eye gets 30 FPS but if it's dark, then I think it's fine. It's fine for me. You need a silver screen of course but I still think it's a slick idea to save the cost of a second projector.

[martinlandau]

Yes Okta, that is great idea, but light efficiency - devil is always in the details! What is the expected light efficiency of this solution versus the rotator solution? I do not mind spending 500 dollars for the superior product if the difference is very noticeable. Palmer if you have some free time, me and likay were going back and forth on indentical projectors but with differently polarized internal lcd's to maximize the light efficiency, 68% if I remember correctly, Barco I think it was had a solution like this, but likay seemed to think it was not possible for consumer level LCD's.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... efficiency" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PalmerTech]

Wait... You guys just need identical panels with rotated polarization? Seriously? I could do that in my sleep, I have done it many, many times on handheld LCDs.

EDIT: To clarify, with the right tools and experience, it is entirely possible to take off the polarization layers and swap them with a new one at a different angle. I can do this.

[Likay]

It would be great to know something about this since myself i consider disassembling one of my beamers is a little too risky because of alignment and dust problems. Those babies are working and i of course want to keep it that way.
I'm very curious what you come up to if you do it so keep us informed!
Would it at the same be possible to align all lcd-panels orientation to the same within one projector? In this case you would only need to rotate polarization on 3 panels in all on two projectors thus using 0/90° glasses instead.

[martinlandau]

Wait... You guys just need identical panels with rotated polarization? Seriously? I could do that in my sleep, I have done it many, many times on handheld LCDs.

EDIT: To clarify, with the right tools and experience, it is entirely possible to take off the polarization layers and swap them with a new one at a different angle. I can do this.

Palmer you have a lot to offer the S3D community, that is why i said my hope has been renewed now that you showed up, and when I said there is chance for you to make millions, that is not just my wild eyed enthusiasm!! There are many people that want the things you can do and no company is offering this to the retail public in so many areas - but of course it always comes down to price - if you can do it for the price we are all willing to pay - you will have to hire tons of staff the orders may be so numerous. Get this stuff working, show the prototype, and see how many orders come in.

Personally as you know, I need a durable yet cost effective single s3d projector solution that uses passive polarized glasses for the motion simulator dome system. But for the home I could use a dual projector passive setup if it was not too expensive. What likay and others have is great stuff, but the costs are too prohibitve to most end users right now. You find a china price rotator or can do 2 indentical projectors with the different internal polarization, and suddenly a whole new world of s3d options opens up for us!

[smoothy]

Still smarting from the time I let a couple zscreens on Ebay get passed me for only a couple hundred dollars, I found this:

http://www.lctecdisplays.com/files/data ... FPR-TN.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.lctecdisplays.com/Ordering__pricing.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Zscreen is costing about 2500 US dollars, this polarization rotator that works up to 400hz is only about 500 US dollars. Swedish company, have you heard of these guys Likay? How do you think the efficiency of this solution would compare to your 2 projectors with spars?

This should allow you to do RealD projection just like in the professional theaters. With the new 120hz projectors on the horizon and this "polarizing rotator" we should be able to get a nice solution for very cheap no?

However I am always interested in the "china price" as I know it is usually several orders of magnitude lower than the USA price. So likay or anyone, where is the 200 US dollar chinese polarization rotator? Where is REALD sourcing their polarization panel from?

If this is really $500 and can replicate the real d z screen, then finally the 1 projector setup for polarized 3d is here. I would get one with a 1080p dlp 120hz projector when they come out and are affordable enough. Do you know if this would work with 1 LCD 1080p or 1 LCD 720p 120hz projector?

[PalmerTech]

It would be great to know something about this since myself i consider disassembling one of my beamers is a little too risky because of alignment and dust problems. Those babies are working and i of course want to keep it that way.
I'm very curious what you come up to if you do it so keep us informed!
Would it at the same be possible to align all lcd-panels orientation to the same within one projector? In this case you would only need to rotate polarization on 3 panels in all on two projectors thus using 0/90° glasses instead.

It should be very possible to do that, the goal would be to use standard linear polarized glasses with two projectors, one having rotated polarization filters. I will let you guys know if I do this, my only obstacle at this point is obtaining two projectors!

Palmer you have a lot to offer the S3D community, that is why i said my hope has been renewed now that you showed up, and when I said there is chance for you to make millions, that is not just my wild eyed enthusiasm!! There are many people that want the things you can do and no company is offering this to the retail public in so many areas - but of course it always comes down to price - if you can do it for the price we are all willing to pay - you will have to hire tons of staff the orders may be so numerous. Get this stuff working, show the prototype, and see how many orders come in.

Personally as you know, I need a durable yet cost effective single s3d projector solution that uses passive polarized glasses for the motion simulator dome system. But for the home I could use a dual projector passive setup if it was not too expensive. What likay and others have is great stuff, but the costs are too prohibitve to most end users right now. You find a china price rotator or can do 2 indentical projectors with the different internal polarization, and suddenly a whole new world of s3d options opens up for us!

I doubt I would make millions as a one man operation, but that is fine by me. Perhaps sometime in the future, but at the rate things are moving, I would be surprised if a large company does not snap up the opportunity. Still working on that "china-price" rotator, I am not sure they exist.

[martinlandau]

Smoothy, any s3d projector should work I would think, you just set this rotator in front of it and voila! Resolution doesn't matter - It seems since my original posting that have bleeped out the prices, but they were there back then and converted to US Dollars from Krona it was about 500 bucks. Maybe things are even cheaper now, maybe if we contacted them and did a group MTBS3D buy - we could get even better rates. avsforums does this all the time on group buys.

Palmer:

I would be surprised if a large company does not snap up the opportunity.

LOL! Palmer get ready to be surprised a lot in life, the stories I could tell about EPIC FAILS from my IBM days.
Palmer I was at infocomm earlier this year, and sony's booth had no stereo3d projection solutions even though sharp and christie and viewsonic and others had their stereo3d solutions at that conference - I posted my impressions in the infocomm thread. And texas instruments had a whole slew of stereo3d projectors at thier booth (most 1024x768 with DLP 120hz checkerboard and shutterglasses)

I have had a sony 1272 crt projector than I have used for a long time and shutter glasses work well with it if you have fast refresh green phosphor tube.

I asked the sony people where is the new stereo3d sony digital projectors? They said they had no idea, maybe thier SXRD stuff could be adapted in a few years.
What is interesting is I beleve neil's siggraph presentation with RealD they were using a sony projector!?! The left hand of large companies sometimes do not know what right hands are doing.

Stereo3D projection for the home is even less on the radar of many of these companies than tv's or pc monitors. With your help and advocacy and everyone else here, maybe we can change that.

[smoothy]

Smoothy, any s3d projector should work I would think, you just set this rotator in front of it and voila! Resolution doesn't matter - It seems since my original posting that have bleeped out the prices, but they were there back then and converted to US Dollars from Krona it was about 500 bucks. Maybe things are even cheaper now, maybe if we contacted them and did a group MTBS3D buy - we could get even better rates. avsforums does this all the time on group buys.

So you need an s3d projector, you mean like a depthq there a bit pricey.

[Tril]

Shutter glasses have a linear polarising filter on one side, liquid crystals on the inside and another linear polarising filter on the outside. If I'm not mistaken, the liquid crystals rotate visible light 90 degrees.

If you can remove the polarising filter on one side, you could use shutter glasses as a polarization rotator. You put the side with the remaining filter toward the projector and the side without filter toward the screen. I see three possible problems.
1 - It might not be possible to remove a filter.
2 - The lense might not be big enough.
3 - The lense might overheat and burn. You need some cooling system.

Since they are shutter glasses, you know that they are fast enough to do the job and there is already a way to sync them.

[martinlandau]

So you need an s3d projector, you mean like a depthq there a bit pricey.

Viewsonic has an s3d projector that is not very expensive shipping now - also MANY other dlp s3d projectors are soon to be released, sharp, mitsubishi, etc etc Much cheaper than depthq - have you heard anything about them?

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com ... _Final.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is one from mitsubishi I saw at infocomm - do a search on youtube - you should find several.

[PalmerTech]

If I'm not mistaken, the liquid crystals rotate visible light 90 degrees.

I could be wrong too, but I am 99% sure they do not rotate the light, they only block it.

[iondrive]

Hi guys,

I had a nice long post here but I had to edit it after more experimenting. This is the modified version.

I've thought of this idea too and am not surprised to find someone thought of it before me. I played around with some LCD glass I have and was confused about the effects I saw but Likay helped me out. Even though I still have some confusion, here are some tips for understanding LCD glass and some advice about how to think about it. The key is to think about different colors separately. More on that later.

For beginners:
For beginners, the place to start is HowStuffWorks.com. Read their pages about LCDs, then come back here for a deeper understanding.

If you want to experiment:
If you want to experiment and don't already have some LCD glass you can play with, then just go to some drug store / convenience store / dollar store and buy one or 2 small cheap handheld electronic games or watches and maybe some GooGone and a razor scraper if you don't have those already and then go back home. Take apart the device and get the LCD glass out and save the silver screen if you want. Take the razor and carefully peel off one of the polarization layers. I don't think it matters which side. If you tore up the film too much, get some cheap polarizing glasses and use those films. Set up a light path that goes through 1 polarizer, the LCD glass, the other polarizer and then your eye. Rotate the glass or the film, observe the results and you will see various colors. It's hard to understand how it works like that untill you use the key concept above. Wait, better idea, use your monitor as a light source and use my anaglyph ghosting test image. Look at the various colors as you rotate the film. Look at the spectrum and you can see that different colors have their maximum darkness at different angles. This proves that each color gets rotated a different amount.

Whoops, better idea: if you're using an LCD monitor, then just use the LCD glass with the polarizing film side towards you. Rotate it and you can see what I mean. ( I have to start you-tubing someday )

anaglyph-ghosting.png

The confusing part:
The confusing part is that if you take off both layers of polarizing film and look through them in various angles of rotation, you'll find that the output depends on the orientation between the first film and the naked LCD glass. You can rotate the glass and get different outputs. That's what I don't understand. Why does rotating the glass change the output? It's as if the glass rotates the polarity a different amount based on the angle between the first film and the glass. Maybe the glass also does some polarizing and not just rotation or maybe there's some circular polarization involved.

Misc advice:
If I wanted to seriously experiment some more, I would take apart an LCD welder's mask from Menards for $80 and see where that gets me. Then I would put it back together and return it. LOL. Just kidding. It's hard to glue the polarizing film back on. Also don't pull too hard on the film when peeling it off or you'll stretch/bend it too much and it won't be nice and flat when you get it off. Leave a good chunk of time for yourself if you're going to do this. It's a slow process if you want to preserve the film. On the other hand, if you don't want to preserve the film then have at it. Also, I had this one glass that had some odd kind of glue that wouldn't come off of the film with whatever I tried although it did come off the glass. I'm not sure if the glue does some polarization rotation but I guess it's possible.

Bottom Line:
So the botom line is that from what I've learned from Likay and elsewhere and my own experiments is that to do a real good job on the LCD for this project, I would want a pro LCD designer to design the glass. Other than that, you could get lucky with the welder's mask. You need to find just the right orientation of the first polarizing film (or glass if you have polarizing glass), then just the right orientation of the naked LCD glass so that it matches your glasses. I thought it should be possible and then I learned about the Z-screen and I said, "yup, there it is, another one of my ideas taken before I thought of it".

Later all.

--- iondrive ---

[Likay]

If I'm not mistaken, the liquid crystals rotate visible light 90 degrees.

I could be wrong too, but I am 99% sure they do not rotate the light, they only block it.

Liquid qrystal rotates polarized light when "activated" if the alignment is right. You may say they work like an "adjustable retarder". The crystals works only in combination with two polarizers or one polarizer+a polarizationpreserving backmirror (like in lcd-watches).

[Rosomack]

Woah, wait. If I understand correctly, you take a 120 Hz projector, stick this adjustable retarder up front and make it do the magic shutterglasses do (alternate between left/right images) and use polarized glasses?

I know it's not that easy and simple, just trying to understand the basic concept .

[smoothy]

So you need an s3d projector, you mean like a depthq there a bit pricey.

Viewsonic has an s3d projector that is not very expensive shipping now - also MANY other dlp s3d projectors are soon to be released, sharp, mitsubishi, etc etc Much cheaper than depthq - have you heard anything about them?

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com ... _Final.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is one from mitsubishi I saw at infocomm - do a search on youtube - you should find several.

Unfortunately this is a 4:3 720p projector but that fact that it's 120hz 3d ready is nice, if it's affordable and can be used with this z screen clone for polarized glasses then I would get it. Is it really that easy, does this z screen clone actually work just like that and compatible with all PC 3d games and movies???

[iondrive]

hi Rosomack,

Yup, you got it: the signal goes like this: 1 projector, polarizing filter, retarder (naked LCD glass), silver screen, ploarized 3d glasses, eyes, brain, pleasure center. You send a shutterglass signal to the retarder and it switches the polarization of the light from 45 degrees to 135 degrees since that's how your 3d polarizing glasses are oriented. It's a really nice, slick solution but I think you really need a specially designed retarder since normal naked LCD glass twists the light a little differently depending on the color.

Likay, my understanding is that naked LCD glass twists polarized light when not energized but I also think I read somewhere that they could design it differently so that it works like you said instead. From my experience though (and I have taken the polarizing film off of shutterglasses), the glass twists the light when not energized. Polarizing film on each side of the glass are aligned perpendicular to each other. When power is on, the light goes straight through with no rotation and that's why it turns black with a signal and is clear with no signal.

The downside of this setup is that you still need a good silver screen since a normal wall or screen will depolarize the light and your 3d glasses will not separate the views then. That's why I prefer active shutterglasses.

later.

[Rosomack]

That's a pretty neat idea for a hybrid active/passive solution

I wonder what the effect on eyestrain will be, has anyone tried a solution like that? In the cinema perhaps? Is that technology similar to realD?

I suppose that in the case of the retarder working perfectly (without any polarization or timing/delay related problems) ghosting would be squashed like a bug.

[Jadentheman]

lol at renewed interrest in this thread.

But yea a z-screen is good especially for home theatre use. You know when you have people over polarized is great and you don't need to buy a 2nd projector when you can get a z-screen for *hopefully* cheap but not till a standard has been annouce but that's coming. Panasonic basicly led it

[cybereality]

I wonder what the effect on eyestrain will be, has anyone tried a solution like that? In the cinema perhaps? Is that technology similar to realD?

Yeah, that is pretty much exactly what RealD's solution does at 144Hz.

[martinlandau]

When I was at siggraph, the depthq folks said they were releasing a reald passive polarized type solution soon, great stuff. I asked them about pricing, and they were not specific, but I think it is going to be cheaper than the commercial real d solution. As has already been cofirmed by cyber and ion and such - yes rosomack and others - its that simple. A passive polarized 10 foot screen home theater with one projector is going to do wonders i think. stewart and dalite at infocomm both told me that as the orders increased for the silver screens, prices would reflect greater manufacturing economies of scale - they both said orders were accelerating.

[Rosomack]

When I was at siggraph, the depthq folks said they were releasing a reald passive polarized type solution soon, great stuff. I asked them about pricing, and they were not specific, but I think it is going to be cheaper than the commercial real d solution. As has already been cofirmed by cyber and ion and such - yes rosomack and others - its that simple. A passive polarized 10 foot screen home theater with one projector is going to do wonders i think. stewart and dalite at infocomm both told me that as the orders increased for the silver screens, prices would reflect greater manufacturing economies of scale - they both said orders were accelerating.

Wow, that's great . Good to hear that the s3d industry is developing. Maybe soon it will actually be an affordable alternative to dual projection rigs. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed.

[smoothy]

How many hz of true input do the 3d projectors in the cinemas have?

I heard the real d Z screen used in the cinema is for minimum 144hz and max 400hz. The cinemas actually do 144hz I believe, so then this real D LP Z screen with a 120hz projector wouldn't work so well I would imagine, or am I way off?

[Jadentheman]

Well the projectors in the cinema go up to 150hz last time I checked. And the highest at home is 120hz. 120 hz is acceptable for the z-screen becuase shutter glasses also work weell with no eyestrain

[iondrive]

Hi all,

I wanted to talk more about LCD glass. (oh no, not another pagefull please)

I had a question I wanted to answer so I did a little experiment and got the answer but it wasn't the answer I wanted. In an earlier post I talked about the problem with using generic LCD glass being the different polarization shift for different colors and so I tried to come up with a way to combat that but it depended on the answer to this question: If you had two identical pieces of bare LCD glass, could one undo the rotation of the other? In other words, if the polarization of incoming light gets rotated X degrees clockwise as it passes through a retarder, will it get rotated X degrees counterclockwise if the light passes in the other direction? It seems like what gets done in one direction shoud get undone in the other direction but that's not how it works for some reason. Proof is gotten if light goes through a polarizing filter, enters a retarder, bounces off a mirror (preserving polarity, reversing direction), goes back through the retarder, and back through the filter. If what's done gets undone, then the light should look normal. I've done this with my 3d glasses and bare LCD glass and a mirror so that when I look at the reflection of my eye in the mirror, the light is clearly colored meaning that some wavelengths were blocked due to polarization being changed proving that it didn't undo what was done. Conclusion: the retarder rotates polarized light in the same way regardless of the direction of the light.

Oh well, too bad. I thought I was on to something but no. I thought you could wear special 3d glasses that had retarders on them as well as polarizing film and that it might have fixed the color problem and then you could use really cheap LCD glass at the projector. The retarders on the glasses would be unpowered and not shutter. Anyway, I thought the info was interesting so I posted it.

Also in an earlier post I called naked LCD glass the same as retarder. I think that's not exactly right. Naked LCD glass still has metallic film on its inside surfaces and I think a retarder would not. Still, the bare LCD glass can be used as a retarder even though it's not exactly the same. I just thought I'ld point out the difference. I welcome anyone to correct me on any of that.

bye now.

[smoothy]

Here we have RealD LP Z screen which is $2500 then we have this clone from LC TEC costing $500, it seems from the comments that the people in this thread still don't like the idea of the high cost for these rotators. Isn't it better to not make your own when there are these already proving but expensive rotators that exist on the market. Is it not a better idea to speak to RealD or LC TEC to ask if they could do a special offer for mtbs3d members so that we could own these for a very affordable price? I am sure it doesn't cost them much to make these things.

I know hardware is always more expensive than software, but the people who made sol7 which is a image warping software for projectors, the cost of that was about $5000 later the company introduced an attractive price of $150 for members of the forum racesimcentral and simhq and some other sites where you could purchase 1 license of this software. If we can show realD and LC TEC that there is demand for their product I am sure then they would stop there expensive price which is aimed for the professional market and open it up to consumer purchases.

What do you think?

EDIT: Also if I understand correctly with this LC TEC rotator and the RealD LP Z screen can you use this with say the nvidia 3d stereo drivers and then use polarized instead of shutter glasses? This way if any device uses shutters you could use the rotator to make it polarized. I take it this is possible?

[iondrive]

Hi smoothy,

I guess at this point in time I would not want to buy this thing since I prefer to use a plain wall rather than a special screen although I know other s feel differently about it.

as to your Q:
"EDIT: Also if I understand correctly with this LC TEC rotator and the RealD LP Z screen can you use this with say the nvidia 3d stereo drivers and then use polarized instead of shutter glasses? This way if any device uses shutters you could use the rotator to make it polarized. I take it this is possible?"

Yes, that's the idea and I thought you might be able to send the shutterglass signal from your driver to the Z-screen instead of your shutters but it's most likely more complicated. A more general answer is that you would need to take your driver's shutterglass signal and adjust it for your rotator since different LCD glass can require different voltages to work best depending on how it's built.

"How many hz of true input do the 3d projectors in the cinemas have?"
Wikipedia's RealD page says it plays 3d video at 24 fps-per-eye showing each frame 3 times giving a total of 24x2x3=144 fps. I'm tempted to think it's showing a red frame, then a green frame, then blue and that's why it's counted as the same frame 3 times but I think that's wrong. I don't really know. It just makes sense to me as if it has a 3 segment color wheel.

Questions:
Does the glass rotate the polarization less with less voltage? Is it something like a transistor with an active region and a saturation level?
Does opposite voltage twist the polarization in the opposite direction?
Does anyone know this stuff?

bye now.

[Jadentheman]

I though the frames were just black,white,black,white=144hz?

[cybereality]

"How many hz of true input do the 3d projectors in the cinemas have?"
Wikipedia's RealD page says it plays 3d video at 24 fps-per-eye showing each frame 3 times giving a total of 24x2x3=144 fps. I'm tempted to think it's showing a red frame, then a green frame, then blue and that's why it's counted as the same frame 3 times but I think that's wrong. I don't really know. It just makes sense to me as if it has a 3 segment color wheel.

No, it is 3 of the same complete frame. I believe its done to reduce any sort of flickering.

[GordoSan]

Plus there is no color wheel, as I believe most theater DLPs use a 3 chipper. I believe all of the colors are displayed at the same time with those.

[iondrive]

OK GordoSan and Cybereality,

That makes sense. My first instinct is to think of 144Hz as overkill since I often use 60Hz, but l that's just 72 fps per eye so that's not so extreme after all. Starting with 24fps, they might have gotten away with 48 fps per eye but I think I probably would have chosen 72 per eye also just to be safe. Also I've had colorwheels on my mind lately because of my other project.

Jadentheman, that's what each eye sees (72 images + 72 blacks) but the projector is projecting all 144 of course and the Z-screen alternates polarity every other frame.

bye

[ryanosman]

Any new developments here? I am also very interested in building my own Z screen (or buying a low cost one). Before I found this thread (forum/website) I independently figured out all the bad news you did iondrive.. took apart shutter glasses... I just assumed it was going to work without a hitch, was pissed when it didn't. My summation of what's going on was that when the lcd glass is energized, the crystals are all actively pulled into line, so the light gets cleanly polarized at zero degrees, and when the glass in non energized, the crystals mostly do what they're supposed to (polarize the light with a 90 twist), but because they're being orchestrated without electricity, they dont do quite as good of a job. So I thought we must need glass that actively pulls 90 or actively pulls zero (or 180). So, then I tried 3 lcd layers plus one initial plastic polarizer film (from 1-1/2 pairs of shutter glasses), with 2 layers wired together, so it was flipping between 1 active layer (1on=0deg + 2off=180deg) and 2 active layers (1off=90deg + 2on=0deg). I was really excited when I thought of that (because I see on the website that the z screen uses 3 layers) because I thought I had figured it out, and was really pissed again when it still didn't work (it just alternated between different hues of color shifting). So now I'm kinda stumped. I took apart my welding helmet this morning, but the glass stuff wouldn't come apart in a way that would allow me to put it back together... if at all. So since I need that helmet, that was a dead end too. Not sure what to try next. And I would just drop the $390 to tyrell innovations, but I'd like to see what the whole final rig delivers like before I commit to spending much money (different silver screens, off angle viewing, ghosting etc etc.). I just fired off an email to ask if he'll offer money back if not satisfied... that would solve my problem.

To be continued.

[icesterftl]

Any new developments here? I am also very interested in building my own Z screen (or buying a low cost one). Before I found this thread (forum/website) I independently figured out all the bad news you did iondrive.. took apart shutter glasses... I just assumed it was going to work without a hitch, was pissed when it didn't. My summation of what's going on was that when the lcd glass is energized, the crystals are all actively pulled into line, so the light gets cleanly polarized at zero degrees, and when the glass in non energized, the crystals mostly do what they're supposed to (polarize the light with a 90 twist), but because they're being orchestrated without electricity, they dont do quite as good of a job. So I thought we must need glass that actively pulls 90 or actively pulls zero (or 180). So, then I tried 3 lcd layers plus one initial plastic polarizer film (from 1-1/2 pairs of shutter glasses), with 2 layers wired together, so it was flipping between 1 active layer (1on=0deg + 2off=180deg) and 2 active layers (1off=90deg + 2on=0deg). I was really excited when I thought of that (because I see on the website that the z screen uses 3 layers) because I thought I had figured it out, and was really pissed again when it still didn't work (it just alternated between different hues of color shifting). So now I'm kinda stumped. I took apart my welding helmet this morning, but the glass stuff wouldn't come apart in a way that would allow me to put it back together... if at all. So since I need that helmet, that was a dead end too. Not sure what to try next. And I would just drop the $390 to tyrell innovations, but I'd like to see what the whole final rig delivers like before I commit to spending much money (different silver screens, off angle viewing, ghosting etc etc.). I just fired off an email to ask if he'll offer money back if not satisfied... that would solve my problem.

To be continued.

Here is one:



icesterftl

[tritosine5G]

If this works with 100hz with Acer H5360 , thru DVI, with AMD quad buffer, I'd buy it.
120hz = no way

I want all information of 100hz RGBWY sequence to be transmitted, no shorter frames and stuff.

Im ok with an L/R switch for occasional eyeswap, but interested which would be better, hacked sony shutter plus 100hz ( DLP brilliantcolor), or polarization modulated 100hz, plus designer glasses.

[icesterftl]

If this works with 100hz with Acer H5360 , thru DVI, with AMD quad buffer, I'd buy it.
120hz = no way

I want all information of 100hz RGBWY sequence to be transmitted, no shorter frames and stuff.

Im ok with an L/R switch for occasional eyeswap, but interested which would be better, hacked sony shutter plus 100hz ( DLP brilliantcolor), or polarization modulated 100hz, plus designer glasses.

Works from 5 Hz to 500Hz and it is fully programmable trough Windows 7 control panel application via USB port.
It uses D-Sub dongle and it also has VESA input for decoding various IR codes and DLP-Link white light codes.

I did not know that Acer H5360 has a DVI input port.

If so, DVI dongle is not a problem

icesterftl

[tritosine5G]

Wow, this would be a dream setup, if 100hz works OK. I contacted someone over iz3d , to try DLP 100 hz with AMD stuff.

I rather choose less color tint but more ghosting ( circular glasses, pol mod? ) , over more color tint but less ghosting (active LC glasses ?).