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 Silverscreens reviewed! 
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3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
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ATTENTION! i have been informed by some users that peroni has trouble with emails beeing blocked by a filter. if you dont get an answer within a day contact me to get an alternative email address.
UPDATE MAR 30: Added Peroni's "Superscreen", added Awater3D's „Silver Stereo Max“.
UPDATE FEB 03: removed bright rear projection screen (trivision)



Hi everybody!

When I first approached the world of stereoscopic projection i found myself in a situation with a big lack of informations. Fortunately i had Likay who helped me out. The biggest lack i found was silverscreens. I didn’t know the differences between one silverscreen or another, between front and rear projection, between one viewing angle and another. This is why i decided to write this review. I contacted every single company that produces/sells this kind of material and asked for their permission to write about their products and a small sample. Some companies preferred not to be mentioned, and for sure had their reasons for that. So if you notice that some big companies are missing please respect their wish and leave them out of this topic.
Other big companies accepted and sent me some samples. (thanks :mrgreen: )
First thing to do is to define what this review actually is. This review is not a product comparison, but more a product description, not meant to advertise one company or another, nor to put another company down. It is meant to give to mtbs users the means to make a informed purchase and buy the product that suits mostly their own needs. I will keep this review as un technical as possible and user friendly to give also to projection-newbies a information they can understand. I will have this review written based on 3 big aspects.
1) Mechanical aspects (such as screen properties, if it is washable, how sensitive it is to wrinkles etc.)
2) Ghosting/Glare (this point is affronted trough pictures taken under the very same conditions for every sample and a short description since i checked them myself while taking pictures)
3) Commercial aspects (such as price range, available formats etc.) [Note that the prices are rounded. And only meant as indication. Prices are in the currency of the producer’s land to avoid problems trough the exchange rate.]

The most important thing is that this review is NOT officially recognized by mtbs, it is a review written by me (Igor Masin, aka sharky) and mtbs does not have any responsibility about its content. For any sort of question or problem about the review please pm me here on the forums or send me an email at the address sharkyenergy AT hotmail DOT com.

The setup used for the testing is the same for every single test.
Projectors: 2x Hitachi CPX5 run @ 2000 Lumen
Filters: 2x SPAR filters
Pictures: Canon ixus i7

The filters are high range and produce virtually no ghosting.

The companies that agreed in this very first user-based review and their products are the following:

- UMA (aka silverfabric)
o Silverfabric

- Stewart Filmscreen Corp.
o Silver 3D

- Hurley Silverscreens
o Digital Dimension 3D

- Harkness screens
o Spectral 240 3D

- Awater 3D
o IC3D
o Rear projection screen (RPS) grey (acrylic glass 3 mm)
o Rear projection screen (RPS) black (acrylic glass 3 mm)
o Silver Stereo Max

- Trivision
o Silverpaint
o Dark rear projection foil

- Peroni (Added 03/30/09)
o Superscreen (Added 03/30/09)


All the posted technical informations are informations provided by the producer of the screen.
The pictures are not hi-quality because my camera has some trouble on dark rooms, but they represent the reality anyway. The amount of ghosting you see is the same amount I saw with a pair of glasses regardless the picture quality. (when i say "almost zero" ghosting, you can see what i am talking about by looking at the "G" of the word ghosting in the black part. that slight brown is the ghosting.)
Here some sample images:

Image
this is the worst case of ghosting (image taken with no filter as example) in order to be able to know where to search for ghosting. (overlayed "GHOSTING" text, graytone box below right, and gray box near the black one below left are not supposed to be there)

Image
Picture two shows the maximum polarization that can be archived with the test glasses on the REAR projection screen’s depolarization test.

Image
Picture 3 is the image I used to test the polarization. The quality isn’t the best because the samples are A4 sized and I had to shrink the image down. But it was up to the task.


Image
Picture 4 shows a certain amount of ghosting. when i tested the screens i moved to the side until the screen reached this amount of depolarization.



Company: UMA
Product: Silverfabric


Mechanical informations:

How is the material?
Fabric, covered with the non depolarizing film on one side.
Is the screen washable? Yes it can be washed with a soft tissue and using only water. If you have the version with black border and eylets, you should pay attention not to make the black border wet because it would shrink.
Is the screen rollable? Yes, but it isn’t sold with a roll system. If you want it you have to build your own and find a way to tension it. Personally I got good results. You shouldn’t roll it up on a radius smaller then 5 cm. (2’’).
Is the screen foldable? No. It is very sensitive for wrinkles and it should be mounted with care. Wrinkles won’t go away. If you fold it it is damaged. The screen is not so sensitive against rubbing.

Pros: Lightweight, washable, rollable,
Cons: Very sensitive to wrinkles.


Ghosting/Image quality:

The gosting is very small, you notice it only on some spots its not disturbing at all and well within the needs of a home setup. The glare is more disturbing. The screen is very reflective and the image is very sharp. The viewing angle is ok too. You don’t have any kind of problems until 30° off. At 30° the ghosting reaches the amount of the sample image.

Image


Commercial informations:
The approximate cost/sqm is around 110 euro.
The screen can be bought in the following formats:
- Screen material only
- Screen with black border, eyelets and rubber straps
- Screen with black border, eyelets, rubber straps and frame.

Image

Overall: This is a material I like very much. It seems to be a very good material that suits very much the needs of homemade setups. I recommend tough to plan the mounting of the screen very well and find somebody who can help you. If you have a big wall or enough room for the frame then this is your screen. I don’t recommend it to who would like to have it rollable and doesn’t have good manual skills to build your own rig. Also the pricerange is accessible for the private users and the quality/price ratio is very good. The ghosting is also low and if the screen is well tensioned (their frames to that perfectly) the image is clear and and the brightness constant over the whole screen. The black border looks good (see image below) , and the quality of the eyelets and rubber straps is very high. It’s a well made screen and I recommend it if you are looking for a good looking affordable medium/high range screen.



Company: Stewart Filmscreen Corp.
Product: Silver 3D


Mechanical informations:

How is the material? 1 mm thick flexible rubber, covered with the non depolarizing film on one side.
Is the screen washable? No.
Is the screen rollable? No
Is the screen foldable? No

Pros: To the touch it feels as a very strong and flexible material. Not so sensitive to WRINKLES as other materials.
Cons: not washable, not rollable, not foldable, the sprayed surface is very sensitive to rubbing.

Ghosting:
The ghosting on this material is ALMOST zero. The glare is minimal and the ghosting displayed on the image on top is reached at an angle of 45°. It has a very soft and comfortable image.

Image


Commercial informations:

The screen can be bought in the following formats:
- Fixed frame
- SNDQ
- AT-frame
- Cine-W
The company does not sell the screen without frame.


Overall:

This screen is indeed a high quality screen. Because of its mechanical properties tough I don’t recommend it for in-home use. This screen is more suited for professional use, big rooms and clean environments. It is a good choice if you have a dedicated room that you keep clean and are searching a hi quality screen.





Company: Hurley Silverscreens
Product: Digital Dimension 3D


Mechanical informations:
How is the material? 1 mm thick flexible black rubber, covered with the non depolarizing film on one side.
Is the screen washable? Yes.
Is the screen rollable? QUOTE: “No. For best image quality, Hurley does not recommend rolling any silver screen materials” . for what I have seen and tested, rolling it up didn’t damage the screen at all and I would probably risk it. (if you do it you do it at your own risk)
Is the screen foldable? No

Pros: To the touch it feels as a very strong and flexible material. Not so sensitive to wrinkles and rubbing as other materials. Washable, rollable at your own risk,
Cons: according to the producer the material shouldn’t be folded or rolled.

Ghosting:This screen had almost zero ghosting, and just a little bit of glare. Amazingly I was not able to reach the ghosting of the sample image at any angle. A very light ghosting starts at an angle of 45° but its amazingly small. The image’s sharpness is medium.

Image


Commercial informations:

The approximate cost is around 130 USD/sqm.
The screen can be bought in the following formats:
- Material only
- Hurley grommeted screens
- HPad screen
- Odyssey screen
- Frame system


Overall:

This screen is nearly perfect for in-home use. When I first got it I thought that it wouldn’t perform good because it doesn’t look promising nor professional in the first moment. (because unlike other screens it doesn’t look or feel sensible at all and looks more like a peace of silver painted building material) But when I tested it I was truly amazed. Way beyond my best expectations. With a ghosting of nearly zero and an acceptable glare and a more then affordable price range this material is one of the best choices. Only folding it and pressing with my thumb very strongly was able to make a visible damage on the material. I was not able to find any negative point on this material, except that (as any silverscreen) it has to be well tensioned.



Company: Harkness screens
Product: Spectral 240 3D


Mechanical informations:
How is the material? thin flexible rubber, covered with the non depolarizing film on one side.
Is the screen washable? No.
Is the screen rollable? Yes, the min rollradius for an electric screen is 150mm
Is the screen foldable? No

Pros: The material is very unsensitive to wrinkles, and easy to handle. It also is not so sensitive to rubbing as others are.
Cons: not foldable, not washable

Ghosting:
This screen had absolutely zero ghosting. Seen from front, and reached the ghosting shown in the image above at an angle of 45°. The image quality is very high, the image is very very soft and also very comfortable for the eyes even at reduced distances.

Image


Commercial informations:
List is £75/sqm non-perf or standard cinema perf.
The screen can be bought in the following formats:
- Material only
- Eyelets
- Framed
- Rollable


Overall:
Overall this screen is the one with the best image quality, but I do not recommend it for in-home use. It can't be washed which i think is absolutely needed at home. If you are searching a great top class screen this is your screen. In my opinion this screen is perfect for big shows or cinemas where the quality of the image is the most important thing.


Company: Awater 3D
Product: IC3D


Mechanical informations:

How is the material? Fabric, covered with the non depolarizing film on one side.
Is the screen washable? Yes it can be washed with a soft tissue and using only water.
Is the screen rollable? Yes, but it isn’t sold with a roll system. If you want it you have to build your own and find a way to tension it. Personally I got good results. You shouldn’t roll it up on a radius smaller then 3 cm. (2’’).
Is the screen foldable? No. It is very sensitive for wrinkles and it should be mounted with care. Wrinkles won’t go away. If you fold it it is permanently damaged. The screen is not so sensitive against rubbing.

Pros: Lightweight, washable, rollable,
Cons: Very sensitive to wrinkles.



Ghosting:

The gosting is very small, you notice it only on some spots its not disturbing at all and well within the needs of a home setup. The glare is more disturbing. The screen is very reflective and the image is very sharp. The viewing angle is ok too. You don’t have any kind of problems until 30° off. At 30° the ghosting reaches the amount of the sample image.

Image


Commercial informations:
The approximate cost/sqm is around 100 euro.
The screen can be bought in the following formats:
- Screen material only
- Screen with black border, eyelets and rubber straps
- Screen with black border, eyelets, rubber straps and frame.

Overall:
This is a material I like very much. It seems to be a very good material that suits very much the needs of homemade setups. I recommend tough to plan the mounting of the screen very well and find somebody who can help you. If you have a big wall or enough room for the frame then this is your screen. I don’t recommend it to who would like to have it rollable and doesn’t have good manual skills to build your own rig. Also the pricerange is accessible for the private users and the quality/price ratio is very good. The ghosting is also low and if the screen is well tensioned (their frames to that perfectly) the image is clear and and the brightness constant over the whole screen.




Company: Awater 3D (Added 03/30/09)
Product: „Silver Stereo Max“


Mechanical informations:

How is the material? 1 mm thick rubber covered on one side. (can be bought also thinner)
Is the screen washable? Yes it can be washed with a soft tissue and using only water.
Is the screen rollable? Yes
Is the screen foldable? No

Pros: washable, rollable, not sensitive to wrinkles
Cons: very bright



Ghosting:

The gosting is very small, you notice it only on some spots its not disturbing at all and well within the needs of a home setup. The glare is more disturbing. The screen is very reflective and the image is very sharp. The viewing angle is ok too.

i used another test image since this screen has been reviewed in another moment. first image shows the worst case (100% ghosting), second image shows the actual ghosting taken trough the glasses.
Image
Image


Commercial informations:
The approximate cost/sqm is around 100 euro.
The screen can be bought in the following formats:
- Screen material only
- Screen with black border, eyelets and rubber straps
- Screen with black border, eyelets, rubber straps and frame.
- The screen can be welded toghether to sizes up to 16x9 meters

Overall:
This screen is the same as "IC3D" with the very very big advantage that it is not sensitive to wrinkles. i have bent it really hard and had no sign at all. The only downside is glare. Else the screen is really good.




Company: Awater 3D
Product: Rear projection screen (RPS) grey (acrylic glass 3 mm)


Mechanical informations:
How is the material? 3 mm thick gray, opaque acrylic glass.
Is the screen washable? Yes it can be washed with a soft tissue and using only water.
Weight: 1.2 kg/ sqm for each mm of thickness.
Is the screen rollable? No.
Is the screen foldable? No.

Pros: Rear projection, washable
Cons: since it is rigid it isn’t foldable nor rollable and also cannot be mounted onto a wall.

Ghosting:
In the image you can see that the screen depolarizes a bit. (totally black is the best)

Image
Image

Commercial informations:
The approximate cost/sqm is around 410 euro for the 3 mm thick material and 580 euro for the 5 mm thick material.
The screen can be bought in the following formats:
- Screen material only
- Screen material with frame. (various frame types available)

Overall:
The gray screen would not be my choice. If I would have to go for a acrylic one I would go for the black one because it has less ghosting, same price range and looks better. The pricerange is quite high for a home setup.


Company: Awater 3D
Product: Rear projection screen (RPS) black (acrylic glass 3 mm)


Mechanical informations:
How is the material? 3 mm thick dark gray/black, opaque acrylic glass.
Is the screen washable? Yes it can be washed with a soft tissue and using only water.
Weight: 1.2 kg/ sqm for each mm of thickness.
Is the screen rollable? No.
Is the screen foldable? No.

Pros: Rear projection, washable
Cons: since it is rigid it isn’t washable nor rollable and also cannot be mounted onto a wall.

Ghosting:
In the image you can see that the screen depolarizes a bit but less then the previous one. (totally black is the best)

Image
Image


Commercial informations:
The approximate cost/sqm is around 410 euro for the 3 mm thick material and 580 euro for the 5 mm thick material.
The screen can be bought in the following formats:
- Screen material only
- Screen material with frame. (various frame types available)


Overall:
This one performed better then the gray one. If you are searching for a RIGID rear projection screen then this is your material.



Company: Trivision
Product: Silverpaint


Mechanical informations:
How is the material? Silverpaint is a material they spray on almost any surface.
Is the screen washable? Yes it can be washed with a soft tissue and using only water.
Is the screen rollable? yes.
Is the screen foldable? no

Pros: applicable on many surfaces, not too sensible, washable, rollable, available for any particular need
Cons: none found

Ghosting:
This paint has almost zero ghosting. And you reach the ghosting of the sample image only at an angle of approx 60°. The image’s softness depends on the material they spray the painting on, both samples I got had a very soft and very nice image. (thats the reason why i only posted one sample. the result was the same)

Image

Commercial informations:
The screen can be bought in the following formats:
- Screen material only
- Screen with big holes for cinema’s with speakers behind the screen
- Screen with small holes for normal projection with speakers behind the screen
- Screens with very small holes for normal projection/short distances with speakers behind the screen
- Addons: Velcro adhesive (front side/rear) , pressure button, eyelets only, frame with eyelets (AL frame or steel frame), mount with tripod, pelican system, motorized rollsystem, frame on request (round, spheric, triangular etc.)

Image
Image

Overall:
This company has amazing screens. The quality of the image is spectacular and based on your needs you can get almost every surface sprayed. (attention, surface type changes the quality of the image) This silverpaint is an amazing product that can be shaped for every single individual. The price is unknown tough, since it depends on the material used the size, the thickness, etc. It is for sure a nearly perfect product for home setups, but with the unknown price range it is difficult to say the price/quality ratio. For sure it is a VERY good material and very suited for inhome use and even professional use. All the material they use are tested and rated fireproof.


Company: Trivision
Product: Dark rear projection foil


Mechanical informations:

How is the material? 1 mm thick dark gray/black, plasticfoil.
Is the screen washable? Yes it can be washed with a soft tissue and using only water.
Is the screen rollable? yes.
Is the screen foldable? yes.

Pros: Rear projection, washable
Cons: needs to be tensioned.

Ghosting:
In the image you can see that the screen depolarizes a bit. (totally black is the best)

Image
Image


Commercial informations:
The screen can be bought in the following formats:
- Screen material only
- Screen material with frame. (various frame types available)


Overall:
Assuming I want a passive rear projection setup I would go for this screen. It has very good properties and there isn’t much glare. It can be soldered into bigger peaces. (see below a soldering joint) Soldering allows to reach screens bigger then usual. the soldering joint is approx 1 mm high.

Image
Image




Company: Peroni (added 03/30/09)
Product: Superscreen


Mechanical informations:

How is the material? very thin flexible rubber, covered with the non depolarizing film on one side, white on the other side.
Is the screen washable? yes, with water or alcohol.
Is the screen rollable? yes
Is the screen foldable? yes for short times. the wrinkles go away as soon as the screen is tensioned.

Pros: To the touch it feels as a very strong and flexible material. Not so sensitive to wrinkles, scratches and rubbing as other materials, easy to store.
Cons: none found

Ghosting:
The ghosting on this material is a TINY bit higher then the other ones. The glare is minimal and the ghosting is acceptable within +- 40° for an overall view angle of 80°. It has a very soft and comfortable image.

i used another image for this review since i made it in another moment. below you will find the image with the worst case scenario (100% ghosting) and teh actual image taken trough the polarized glasses. The ghosting is not visible on the picutres tough. while you play you dont notice it at all.
Image
Image


Commercial informations:

The screen can be bought in the following formats:
- The material is rolled up and is 2.1 meters wide. it is sold at any lenght (up to 62 meters) with a fixed width of 2.1 meters.
- The material can be bought with any kind of "addon", (straps, eyelets, frames, motorized tubes, etc...) and the price will change according to the user's requests.
- The cost for a liear meter (1 meter x 2.1 meters) is 10.50 euro (approx 5 euro 1 sqm) [No, its not a typo.. the price is really low]
- The minimum order is 50 euro including shipment.

Overall:

This screen is THE SCREEN for projection newbies. It has a amazing low cost, and the price/quality ratio is up to 15 times better then any other screen reviewed here. for sure the best screen for beginners.
Not reccomended tough for who is searching a really high quality screen for a first class setup. its for sure worth every single cent, and is perfect for tradeshows where a screen can get easily damaged or needs to be moved a lot.

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Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:04 pm
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"It can't be washed which i think is absolutely needed at home. "

What on God's Earth do you do at your house!!? :shock:

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Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:42 pm
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well, personally i think that if the walls get dirty over time, everything does. your home stays celan because you clean it regularely. a surface that cant be cleaned at all is not something that suits MY needs. but as said this is meant to give everybody the infformations needed to make a informed purchase. :) if its no harm to you then that might be your screen.. :)

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Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:59 pm
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chrisjarram wrote:
"It can't be washed which i think is absolutely needed at home. "

What on God's Earth do you do at your house!!? :shock:
Indoor paintball. :D

Nice long post.

Screen-tech also has some nice screens (they sell their samples). I got to try a sample of one of their screens. I liked it but it was out of my limited budget at the time.

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Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:09 pm
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missed them. going to write them tomorrow.

thank you

igor

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Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:14 pm
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Thank you! Incredibly nice and informative review Igor!!

It's no secret i'm after a new silverscreen because i suffer from wrinkles that won't go away after a mishap when mounting it. :(
This makes decision on what to buy next so much easier! The result from the silverscreen i have now is awesome but the wrinkles are a nail in my eye. :roll:

I have to agree with Igor about washability! I roll my screen up and down all the time and by time the dust is making bigger collections and get's visible (forgive my english, use sense to see what i mean. My home is not a pigsty :P).

Thanks again! :D

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Last edited by Likay on Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:24 pm
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they are all different and all with different proerties. i have a silverfabric too and i enjoy it. after all they are designed to be tensioned and we both didnt do that.

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Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:55 pm
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And about the tension it seemed like i had bigger luck with mine though. It works great just rolling up and down. It's attached to a rollercurtain though and maybe (even if it's not entirely attached) the curtain gives some extra support to it.

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Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:01 am
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just got word from 2 companies that two new products are in developement, and as soon as the patents and the results are ready i will get a sample to review and add to this topic. moreover trivision said that the bright gray rear projection screen will not be sold anymore as soon as the stock is finished.

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Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:28 pm
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Great review sharky. Very informative and helpful. Thanks.

-Varinder

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Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:21 am
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youre welcome.. :D will add some more infos in the next week so keep checking it.. :)

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Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:57 am
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removed bright rear projection foil (trivision) from the review since it isnt sold anymore.

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Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:51 pm
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added 2 more reviews.. :)

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Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:29 am
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Amazing reviews sharky!

Extremly useful information. Thank You! :D

I agree with you about the washing... I bought a few 2.5 gain glass bead screens a while back which were not washable... big mistake. Apart from the dust which the glass collects like sand paper, any accidental blotches are impossible to clean off, forcing me to cut pieces away from corners to cover them up.

-- Shahzad

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Thanks for informations Sharky! :)

I cannot make a decision, which screen should i buy.
In a few week, we will project relaxing films in 3D-HD.
Forests, waterfalls, caves, rivers, etc.
So this isn't a film with dark scenes and with high contrast.
Maybe the last, PERONI Superscreen 028 will fit my need?
Price is really very acceptable!

It has a tiny ghosting, but why i dont see it on the picture?
Because the minimal contrast?
How much is the GAIN value?
I don't find it on the test. IMHO this is very important.

thx!


Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:41 am
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No answer here, and no answer from Peroni.
I send emails to different addresses at monday and nothing happened :(


Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:13 am
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Most of us who use silverscreens have only experience of one fabric of silverscreens so it's obvious it's difficult to say any differencies between screens. Have you tried pm'ing the creator of this thread?

I use silverfabric myself since i started with dual projection and i'm very pleased with it. I don't know how it stands compared to other screens regarding price/performance.
Most manufacturers of silverscreens are ready to send samples of their products for a smaller fee so you may want to start there?

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Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:26 am
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:) hey guys.. long time..


How about a 3D virtual black screen of Da-Lite review? :)


Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:40 am
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I have a sample of the virtual black at home. The material is made of flexible black vinyl and seems to be a really great material for the task!
For some strange reasons inspite of the datas i get more ghosting on the virtual black sample than with the silverscreen (it definitely shouldn't). This could have been something with the small sample but i tried to view from many angles with the same result. :shock:
The sample (A4) is too small to get a total impression but i have no doubt it would be a great material to make a backprojection tv if you have the space. :roll:
I had an idea of using the projectors aligned at the floor beaming away from me, reflected by a mirror upwards and finally reflected back onto the screen. This to save space and get a big image. However ghosting increased by several notches using just one mirror so i gave up. Frontsurface mirrors are a must if used to reflect polarized light (my testmirror was a standard backsurface glassmirror but caused quite some amount of ghosting). Even if i would have success the rig would have been taking too much space for being practical (one of the mirrors would have to be really big). The dual projector rig i have now is portable and it takes about 15 minutes to install and adjusting to a good image.

It seems like the final image of the virtual black if used in a standard backprojection rig would give a similar experience to the one with dual projectors. You would probably have a "glare" at the spot in the middle of the screen (similar to when using silverscreen). A big advantage is that noone can get in the way of the lightbeam! :D

Really sorry for the lack of good info but i'll try to complement this post with images of how it looks with the sample.

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Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:47 pm
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Thanks for the info Likay, my feelings about it are the same.

I got 2 samples here, so I can test viewing angles a bit by seperating them a decent distance and taking a photo. But the first thing that struck me was that it didn't seem anywhere near 99% polarisation retention. As you said, it seems lower than my Silverfabric screen.. :/

I'll make photos of it tomorrow and post them for comparison, not sure how much can de deduced from RAW photos though.


Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:14 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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if anyone has experiences also about filters for projectors, please share it.
linear or circular is better for 2-3m screen? every cheap one ghost badly?
i also test different screens, i will share the experiences in a few day!
(thanks Sharky!)


Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:48 am
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Jahun wrote:
I got 2 samples here, so I can test viewing angles a bit by seperating them a decent distance and taking a photo. But the first thing that struck me was that it didn't seem anywhere near 99% polarisation retention. As you said, it seems lower than my Silverfabric screen.. :/
Yeah, that's what i meant about the figures not matching (way more ghosting than it should). Compared to other solutions the virtual black gives a very good image but it's not better than a decent silverscreen.

@relaxman:
I think the silverscreen itself is the weakest link regarding a dual polarized setup. According to the review it also seems like most screens available are of good quality. This is probably the part where you should put most research.

I have experience of camerapolarizers attached directly to projectorlenses that fries. Don't do that! :mrgreen: If using those then try to keep some distance (the whole lightbeam should of course go through the filter). I also used those high quality lcd-screen polarizers sold by polarization.com with great result. These are good both for filters as well as glasses.

Best result for my lcd-projectors gives of course the stereopol (SPAR) filters from former silverfabric. They can now be found at awater3d. They are insanely expensive but if you want to reach the best experience this is it! Sterepolfilters works ONLY with lcd-projectors!

At the same time i'd like to bust a myth that lcd-projectors do not work with polarization because of their internal polarization. LCD-beamers works with linear/circular polarizationfilters BUT the angle for the filters MUST be 45/135°! If using 0/90° filters some colors will be filtered away!

Using standard polarizationfilters for lcd's gives a similar light throughput compared to dual dlp/crt setups but using stereopol filters with lcd's gives almost twice the light compared to standard filterusage with lcd/dlp/crt.

Circular filters ghosts slightly more than linear filters but gives viewers the freedom to move their head freely. I've tried both and my favourite is linear polarization because of the less ghosting. For newbies circular might suit better because even a slight tilt of the head will give quite an amount of ghosting when using linear.

Some tips for those who wants to start:

Choose a good silverscreen from the very beginning! I have no experience of silverpaints and how well/bad they work but you might be surprized that some might work very well. Using paint is relatively cheap if it works and gives a good result.
Aim for lcd-projectors from the beginning but use cheap polarizers (You can find high quality filters in a trashed lcd-monitor or lcd-tv). Filters can be upgraded to SPARS (twice the light output) later on if needed. As said above SPARS ONLY works with LCD's!
Regarding lenseshift/digital keystone, lenseshift is surely prefered if you want the best image. I have to settle with digital keystone but i'm satisfied with the image since gaming on a slight higher resolution than the native simply renders away all eventual keystone artifacts in the total scaling process.
Take sparelampprices into calculation when choosing projectors! In some pj's a lamp may costs even more than half a new projector!
Mount the projectors on top of each other with as little as possible distance from the lenses.
Take airflow in consideration so the exhaust air from one beamer doesn't go into the others inlet. Usage of shielding plates can solve some issues thus enabling mounting very close to each other.

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Last edited by Likay on Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:41 pm
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aaah.. just struck me, 99% retention for Virtual Black is almost exactly the same as 1:80 ratio for Silverscreen. (1:80 = 98.75%)

Furthermore: if I recall correctly the polarisation retention of the entire system needs to be calculated as a parallel resistance sort of. I'm sure Yitzhak Weissman's technical notes have it but I'm a bit short on time.

So suppose our filters are 1/500 retention, if lucky. The result would be 1/x = 1/500+ 1/500 => x = 250. So retention would be 1/250 for the 2 together (in the ideal situation!). Still very nice, and should seem very black.

Now we toss in our crappy screens :)

1/x = 1/500 + 1/500 + 1/100 (for 3D virtual black, 99% = 1 on 100))
=> x= 71 So a 1:71 retention left for the entire system. Noticably lower than 1:100..

Now for Silverfabric:
1/x= 1/500 + 1/500 + 1/80 (Silverfabric specs show a 1:80 peak ratio, which is % terms is 98,75% ! not much different than Virtual black)
=> x = 61 So a 1:61 retention for the entire setup in ideal conditions.


So when comparing the 2 screens the difference in ideal position is seeing 1 ghost photon per 71 or 1 per 61. That difference is very hard to spot, even though 99% sounds reallllly much better than 1:80 ratio. It is essentially very similar. Applied to a setup, the reducing of the retention when not in perfect viewing angle will be faaar more important. And since the Virtual Black has a 10 degrees viewing angle compared to 17 for the SilverFabric, the SilverFabric will for all practical purposes look better.

Then again, regardless of ghosting, the Virtual Black has way less problems with ambient light and is rear projected and is nice and black. When showing material without too extreme contrast, it probably is worth it's money in certain applications. But for home use it may not be that handy.


Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:00 am
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Cross Eyed!

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Likay: thx
why fries your filter, because of heat?
I have an Infocus X9, and when i hold my hand in front of the lens, i cannot feel any heat there
even after one hour movie watching. So maybe i dont need an expensive GLASS filter, instead
a HQ plastic will be good?
I prefer the circular, because we will projecting relaxing movies, so here is often possible that people's head are rotated a little :) But with circular i never get so little (or zero) ghosting than linear? its true?

For me its time to order, but dont know what to buy..
I found an affordable solution for circular:
http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com/3dcipo4x4set.html

$174 with 10 glasses free!
But what mean "high quality Acrylic"?

Or i buy linear plastic filters for 120 Euro,
and linear themepark style glass for 3 euro.

Which one has less ghosting?

How do you make the filterholder if the lens doesnt have a filter ring? the ready-made holder is very expensive as i see on webshops.

sorry for offtopic, soon i write my screen experiences!

thx!


Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:00 am
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The filters i fried was standard camerapolarizers for linear polarization. They were attached directly to the projectorlenses. As for you i can't feel much heat with my hands so it's a cautious guess that they were fried because of uv-radiation from the lamp. They didn't melt in any way, they just started to loose their polarization abililty. They might had survived if the distance to the lense had been bigger. This is only a guess though.
Linear polarization ghosts less than circular. Using Freke's ghosttest there is 85% ghosting rejection on the rig using linear while it goes to 65% using circular. It's still not a bad experience or result and if the viewers can't keep their heads horisontal then circular is prefered. Myself i'm spoiled with the high ghostingrejection that linear filters gives so i keep that. However: even small rotations of the filters causes ghosting using linear.

I think you can use hq plastic filters but as said: Keep some distance to the projectorlense, 5 cm's or more. When i said "fried" i meant that they lost their ability to polarize light, not that they actually melted. If you check the link you posted you can see that they actually recommends using the filters as far away from the beamers as possible. If you check polarization.com you should be able to get linear or circular filters a lot cheaper than that!

Making a projectorholder for your two projectors is a must. Besides the risk of dropping a projector you'll most surely have to realign the image all the time...
When you make your projectorholder then simply include a holder for the filters as well. My holder is made of metal but i still use a wooden frame attached to the pj-holder for the filters (was meant to be temporary...). :oops:

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Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:01 am
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I'll drop this bit of info in here, so hopefully the people interested do get to see it.


We purchased a big, big... (meters and meters :)) S3D rear projection screen, being 3D Virtual Black from Da Lite.

My tiny review:
If you got the space for rear projection and have some ambient light that needs suppressing, do check it out. It is absolutely amazing. It does have a small viewing angle and maybe slightly higher ghosting (didn't see any in actual viewing.. any at all) so it requires some thought beforehand. But.. wow.

Ours was purchased through the reseller awater3d.com in Germany that sell a wide range of equipment regarding S3D.

Literature:
http://www.da-lite.com/education/angles ... &issueid=9


Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:03 pm
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Cross Eyed!

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Hi.

I need a good silverscreen in 3,5x2m size.
Thanks to Sharky, i got samples, and can test it! ;)
Unfortunatly only Peroni's price is acceptable for us (its really low),
but it looks like it has no gain, the 2m picture is dim even in a dark
room, and we want a 3,5m screen with 1800ANSI lumen.
The others are good, has gain, but the price is minimum 6-700euro.
Is there any other brand that has gain, and the price is between
this two category? Maybe 3-400euro :roll:

thx
Relaxman


Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:14 am
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this Virtual Black is only good for rear projecting?


Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:09 am
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Yep. Virtual black from Da-Lite is for rearprojection. I have a sample at home but i got the feeling it actually gave slight worse result than my silverscreen. Rearprojection is of course also about space and my project fell on this (even if i planned to use two mirrors to save space). :(
The silverscreen and projectors are somewhat portable but could surely be easier on this as well. :roll:

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Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:25 am
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I got my screen from Harkness Hall. I got just the material and it was like $300 US for a 120" screen. Haven't put it to the test yet though, but the one review I read was very positive.
Warren.


Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:16 pm
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Sharky, I found something on the Harkness Spectral 240 3D website :
your review says the screen is not washable, but the website says it is.
Quote:
Care and Maintenance

The general environment where the screen is installed should be kept reasonably clean to avoid dirt and dust build-up. Screens can be periodically cleaned using a soft brush or cloth, doing this vertically with limited pressure. Screens can be cleaned using a damp cloth wetted with water and a mild detergent. Under no circumstances should screens be cleaned with abrasive materials or harsh chemicals such as acids, bleaches or solvents. Harkness Screens is not liable for damage caused to screens through the use of inappropriate cleaning methods or chemicals.

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Watch my Stereo3D gaming video footage viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2020


Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:10 am
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I really don't get this. How often do you wash your screen? Are you throwing tomatoes at bad movies? :o


Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:48 am
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wnielsenbb wrote:
I really don't get this. How often do you wash your screen? Are you throwing tomatoes at bad movies? :o
:lol: :lol: :lol:

No, but by time dust collects on the screen. It doesn't change the screenproperties except that the image gets darker and the dust by time collects into clods which are visible.
So again:; Unless you plan to change your screen now and then, washability is a must. I think i clean mine once a year or so. It's almost as effective as cleaning your telly. :mrgreen:

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Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:58 am
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I haven't had to clean my tv either, and I live in the dusty desert in Arizona. Dust is over everything laying flat, but doesn't have much chance to stick to vertical surfaces. Besides, you could just use compressed air to clean the dust. No need to wash.


Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:01 pm
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:D I guess there's different dust in different places of the worlds. :mrgreen:
If you clean your telly with a dry cloth after a year in sweden it turns black.

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Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:09 am
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Well, old CRT tele's attract dust with static, so yeah, they need to be cleaned.


Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:07 am
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How expensive is the DA-lite virtual black per sq m ? You can buy the material only I guess.

Saw edge blending is a no-go with it , that said, one should go for an 1080p DLP at least (and Im considering butchering a DLP thing for this app).

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Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:33 pm
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I don't know. I have a sample but not pricing for it. I planned to make a backprojection-tv (da-lite virtual black is for backprojection btw!) using this but it fell on that the virtual black ghosted a little too much. I planned to use two mirrors but the construction would be way too clumsy. In the end i simply didn't have enough room for it anyway. :(

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Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:07 am
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czech this out, http://www.goocentral.net/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=11
http://www.stereoforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=915
http://www.proaudiosuppliers.com/goo-systems-4827.html
:woot .... For shutters, it should be one of the best, it should entirely make up for the glasses lossy transmittance no?
Well, even conservatively, that should be 3.0 at minimum if they say it's 4.2 . :P
Likay, maybe try a sample ? You have an idea about the gain multiplier of the commercial paints you tried recently ?


+1 : hotspotting can be reduced with a curved screen. Is there a calculator for this somewhere?
...found one at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1118055

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Wed May 05, 2010 2:24 am
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Okay, im getting an mdf sheet sprayed with silver stuff for cheap, then 3d virtual black sometime in rapid succession.

Likay , you promised youtube vid of both screens. Can you tell some preliminary results, relaxman still has no harkness hall tensioned.

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Mon May 17, 2010 12:22 pm
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