Minecrift Discussion Thread

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Croccy22
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Croccy22 »

That makes perfect sense lol. I will try the recompile option and let you know the result :-).

At the moment I'm trying to learn Java. If I try to learn euler angles and stuff at the same time I am worried I wont have enough space left in my head to remember where I live etc. :-P.

Thanks. Matt
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by mabrowning »

You could probably confirm that will work by doing the following.

Find a rolly-chair.
Start facing forward.
Roll your head ~45degree (right or left).
Yaw your chair to the (right or left)
If your view moved only left to right accoss the screen(parallel to line between your eyes), then the rotation order is backwards.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Jademalo »

Croccy22 wrote:That makes perfect sense lol. I will try the recompile option and let you know the result :-).

At the moment I'm trying to learn Java. If I try to learn euler angles and stuff at the same time I am worried I wont have enough space left in my head to remember where I live etc. :-P.

Thanks. Matt
How are you learning it Matt?
I've had a few failed starts due to loathing the book im reading or whatever, and I'm curious what youre using.


In other news, I've been messing around with the new launcher. Sucessfully got 1.4.7 running, gonna see if I can get FTB+Minecrift going through this launcher so I can ditch ML... If that works, I'll put my json file up for other people to use.
Mabrowning - How does load order work with this libraries thing and mods?
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by mabrowning »

Jademalo wrote:mabrowning - How does load order work with this libraries thing and mods?
The minecraft launcher passes the list of libraries in-order to the JVM as the classpath. It passes the "version" jar last. The JVM uses the first instance of a class it can find. Thus libraries "first" on the list will "override" those later. Very nice of Mojang to allow modding in this way by passing the version jar last.

I'd put them your libraries in:
  • 1. Minecrift
    2. OptiFine
    3. Forge
    4. Everything else
The everything else doesn't matter though (as far as I know), since they don't have duplicate classes.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Jademalo »

mabrowning wrote:
Jademalo wrote:mabrowning - How does load order work with this libraries thing and mods?
The minecraft launcher passes the list of libraries in-order to the JVM as the classpath. It passes the "version" jar last. The JVM uses the first instance of a class it can find. Thus libraries "first" on the list will "override" those later. Very nice of Mojang to allow modding in this way by passing the version jar last.

I'd put them your libraries in:
  • 1. Minecrift
    2. OptiFine
    3. Forge
    4. Everything else
The everything else doesn't matter though (as far as I know), since they don't have duplicate classes.
Ah, that's a pretty nice way of doing it! Thanks
I also really like the system to move all config files etc. out of .minecraft, it's much better for keeping things clean

EDIT: After reading the correct naming stuff, I've tried to, but ultimately I want to try and separate mods into their own location for easy configuration, so ive made the top level one mods and then been correct from there. It means I can separate original MC stuff and those easily.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Croccy22 »

mabrowning wrote:You could probably confirm that will work by doing the following.

Find a rolly-chair.
Start facing forward.
Roll your head ~45degree (right or left).
Yaw your chair to the (right or left)
If your view moved only left to right accoss the screen(parallel to line between your eyes), then the rotation order is backwards.
OK, you could really be on to something here :)

If I do a direct mapping of yaw>yaw, pitch>pitch and roll>roll in FreePIE and then play minecraft, the yaw is reversed (Looking left, moved camera right and really makes you wanna throw up :P). However in this configuratio, if I tilt my head 45 degrees to the right and then spin around on my chair the crosshair moves horizontally across the scene in minecraft exactly as it should (but in the wrong direction).

To get around the fact that yaw is reversed, I simply changed my script to pass -yaw of the ahrs into the yaw of the hydra (Thinking I was being very clever). Now if I do the same test, the yaw moves in the right direction, but if I tilt my head 45 degrees to the right and turn on my chair, the crosshair moves horizontally along the axis of my eyes exactly as you described!

I have posted a message in the FreePIE forum to see if I can get a copy of the sixense.dll source code to have a play around with. But it looks like this is very near the solution. Only thing Cyber will need to decide now is if there is a way to translate the values between other trackers and the hydra. I have had no problems emulting mouse, TrackIR etc with my Imu so I guess they all use the same input format but it looks like the hydra differs.

Matt.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Jademalo »

Bah, can't get this working.
Any chance of a looksee ma?

Code: Select all

Client> (Reflector) Class not present: cpw.mods.fml.relauncher.FMLRelauncher
Client> Jul 23, 2013 8:28:23 PM net.minecraft.launchwrapper.LogWrapper log
Client> SEVERE: Unable to launch
Client> java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException
Client> 	at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
Client> 	at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
Client> 	at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
Client> 	at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Unknown Source)
Client> 	at net.minecraft.launchwrapper.Launch.launch(Launch.java:57)
Client> 	at net.minecraft.launchwrapper.Launch.main(Launch.java:18)
Client> Caused by: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: cpw/mods/fml/relauncher/FMLRelauncher
Client> 	at net.minecraft.client.MinecraftApplet.init(MinecraftApplet.java:25)
Client> 	at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.fmlReentry(Minecraft.java:2400)
Client> 	at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.main(Minecraft.java:2308)
Client> 	... 6 more
Client> Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: cpw.mods.fml.relauncher.FMLRelauncher
Client> 	at net.minecraft.launchwrapper.LaunchClassLoader.findClass(LaunchClassLoader.java:94)
Client> 	at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
Client> 	at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
Client> 	... 9 more
Client> 
Simply loading Minecrift + Libs, OptiFine, Forge then the configuration I know works with 1.4.7

EDIT: After more research, I'm confused.
I can get Minecrift and Optifine working fine, but it won't let me reassign the directory and just puts it in .minecraft anyway. If I delete just those two entries in the json, then it reassigns the directory without issue.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by mabrowning »

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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by CyberVillain »

Hmm yeah something is wrong here.
I tried with static values and the simple 3d sample in the SDK.

Its only for yaw = 0 that roll and pitch are correct, also the direction of roll and pitch switch when yaw goes from - to +

Problem is I cant see that I use the SDK in a wrong way, the signature for the factory function

Code: Select all

static Quat rotation( const float heading, const float pitch, const float roll );
And I call it like

Code: Select all

 void convert_euler(float yaw, float pitch, float roll, sixenseControllerData *output) {
  auto quat = sixenseMath::Quat::rotation(yaw, pitch, roll);
  auto mat = sixenseMath::Matrix3::rotation(quat);
  
  quat.fill((float*)&output->rot_quat);
  mat.fill((float(*)[3])&output->rot_mat);  
 }
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by mabrowning »

Their Quat::rotation() is wrong.

Use this instead:

Code: Select all

void convert_euler(float yaw, float pitch, float roll, sixenseControllerData *output) {
  auto mat =
    Matrix3::rotation( roll,  Vector3( 0,  0, -1 ) ) * 
    Matrix3::rotation( pitch, Vector3( 1,  0,  0 ) ) *
    Matrix3::rotation( yaw,   Vector3( 0, -1,  0 ) );
  auto quat = Quat(mat);
  
  quat.fill((float*)&output->rot_quat);
  mat.fill((float(*)[3])&output->rot_mat);  
 }
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by jpkrautw »

Looks like boat steering is messed up in 1.6.2. I know Mojang changed the steering mechanics to use mouselook instead of the directional keys... too bad, otherwise the latest build of Minecrift is working better than ever.
Last edited by jpkrautw on Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Croccy22
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Croccy22 »

Thanks ma,

Will test this later on today. Its 3am here and I'm just getting up to go for a track day at Thruxton rave circuit in the uk :-). So Minecraft will have to wait a few hours hehe.

Matt.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by CaptnYesterday »

It has been a few days, but work, demoing, (and playing alot of minecrift) has kept me busy. I swear that I am starting each sessions with the intention of testing very specific things but then... well i figured out how to make torches and mining picks and all of a sudden my little hovel is well lit and awesome. I think I'm having the most video game fun since I was a kid and got N64 and Mario 64 on Christmas morning! 3 of the most notable moments:
1. It started raining and I hit escape. :woot The rain and world paused but I could still look around. BRILLIANT! Definitely thought, 'Hmm, this is what Neo must feel like". You have to try it.
2. The thunder and lightning. You really feel the world's presence. I kept look up after a lightning flash before I noticed what I was doing. Seriously cool stuff.
3. But...there are tall black enemies that can teleport? that scares the sh*t out of me when they are around. I love it.
Ok enough of my gushing love of your Minecrift. I will get back on topic.

I tested build #82 and I can no longer see through the world when close to walls (almost miss that exploit. It was neat). Tool tip text is also perfectly readable in achievements. Great job guys.

I found 1 issue during long term gameplay: (TLDR Mouse cursor seems to get misaligned and jumps to the edge of the screen/keyhole)
-Example: It was jumping to the left side of the screen tonight. (FYI, all VR options are default so mouse controls horizontal not vertical) When you drag the cursor back toward the center of your view, it just appears on the left again. The cursor does not go off screen but only to the far left so that if i move it any further, it turns my character. Over a short time, you must use peripheral vision to mine. Despite re-centering to correct for drift, the cursor still jumped to the left ( i think it can occur to the right as well but that did not happen to me). I was able to correct for this with ought quitting the game, but am unsure of how. I centered via F1 and within the VR Options and it did not seem to change things. The hud was centered, but mouse would still jump left when dragged to about center screen. Eventualy it corrected itself, but was very jarring and not controllable during this out of sync time.

The only thing i noticed is that when it started, my hud had drifted quite far to the right. Far enough that it was out of view. Maybe this had something to do with the courser jumping left?

Sorry for such long/poor explanation of just a single issue. If you need to reproduce because my explanation is as clear as American insurance policies, I recommend not calibrating the rift so that your hud drifts away faster. I expect that the cursor will eventually start start jumping to the side opposite of where your hud drifts. (if they are even related).

That one issue was the only game stopper I have found now. Took an hour of game play before it happened both times.
Testing with: ATI 7970, 8GB 1600 ram, Core i7 4770K 3.5Ghz, Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Java 7 x64. For science... you monster.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by steveGambit »

Hi ma / Stella

Looks like I have found the reason for some of the drift. When I dropped graphical settings (icreasing my fps) I got a much smoother gameplay experience.

My system is 16gb i5 gtx680 and should be flying with 1.6.2 like it had been on the previous version. Strange.

That said some drift does still occur. Hope this helps.
Steve
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by StellaArtois »

jpkrautw wrote:Looks like boat steering is messed up in 1.6.2. I know Mojang changed the steering mechanics to use mouselook instead of the directional keys... too bad, otherwise the latest build of Minecrift is working better than ever.
Ok, I'll look into that. Glad it's working well otherwise!
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by StellaArtois »

CaptnYesterday wrote:It has been a few days, but work, demoing, (and playing alot of minecrift) has kept me busy. I swear that I am starting each sessions with the intention of testing very specific things but then... well i figured out how to make torches and mining picks and all of a sudden my little hovel is well lit and awesome. I think I'm having the most video game fun since I was a kid and got N64 and Mario 64 on Christmas morning! 3 of the most notable moments:
1. It started raining and I hit escape. :woot The rain and world paused but I could still look around. BRILLIANT! Definitely thought, 'Hmm, this is what Neo must feel like". You have to try it.
2. The thunder and lightning. You really feel the world's presence. I kept look up after a lightning flash before I noticed what I was doing. Seriously cool stuff.
3. But...there are tall black enemies that can teleport? that scares the sh*t out of me when they are around. I love it.
Ok enough of my gushing love of your Minecrift. I will get back on topic.

I tested build #82 and I can no longer see through the world when close to walls (almost miss that exploit. It was neat). Tool tip text is also perfectly readable in achievements. Great job guys.

I found 1 issue during long term gameplay: (TLDR Mouse cursor seems to get misaligned and jumps to the edge of the screen/keyhole)
-Example: It was jumping to the left side of the screen tonight. (FYI, all VR options are default so mouse controls horizontal not vertical) When you drag the cursor back toward the center of your view, it just appears on the left again. The cursor does not go off screen but only to the far left so that if i move it any further, it turns my character. Over a short time, you must use peripheral vision to mine. Despite re-centering to correct for drift, the cursor still jumped to the left ( i think it can occur to the right as well but that did not happen to me). I was able to correct for this with ought quitting the game, but am unsure of how. I centered via F1 and within the VR Options and it did not seem to change things. The hud was centered, but mouse would still jump left when dragged to about center screen. Eventualy it corrected itself, but was very jarring and not controllable during this out of sync time.

The only thing i noticed is that when it started, my hud had drifted quite far to the right. Far enough that it was out of view. Maybe this had something to do with the courser jumping left?

Sorry for such long/poor explanation of just a single issue. If you need to reproduce because my explanation is as clear as American insurance policies, I recommend not calibrating the rift so that your hud drifts away faster. I expect that the cursor will eventually start start jumping to the side opposite of where your hud drifts. (if they are even related).

That one issue was the only game stopper I have found now. Took an hour of game play before it happened both times.
The Neo moments are pretty damn cool. I know it would be somewhat of an exploit, but a cheat mode where everything is paused and you can otherwise walk around would be cool... Hmmmmmm. ;)

Good test info again, thanks. I'll add an issue to the tracker. I think I may have seen that one before as well; no sure. Again, seems like yaw drift is still putting stuff out; we may not be updating yaw values etc when the oculus yaw correction kicks in. Not sure currently.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by StellaArtois »

steveGambit wrote:Hi ma / Stella

Looks like I have found the reason for some of the drift. When I dropped graphical settings (icreasing my fps) I got a much smoother gameplay experience.

My system is 16gb i5 gtx680 and should be flying with 1.6.2 like it had been on the previous version. Strange.

That said some drift does still occur. Hope this helps.
Steve
steve, thanks for the input! Are you effectively saying that you saw less drift when you had a higher framerate?
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Dakor »

By the way, is it possible that Minecrift broke my ingame chat?
Even starting the regular Minecraft jar without any mods does not show me the chat or lets my write anything
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by mabrowning »

Dakor wrote:By the way, is it possible that Minecrift broke my ingame chat?
Even starting the regular Minecraft jar without any mods does not show me the chat or lets my write anything
I won't say no, since its Mojang's launcher after all. But I can't imagine a way that it could affect it. Does the keyboard work for other in-game use? I'm sure you have, but you've enabled the HUD with F1 right? There may be some chat settings that got overwritten, though we don't specifically write over those. All versions share the options.txt, optionsof.txt and optionsvr.txt
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Dakor »

mabrowning wrote:
Dakor wrote:By the way, is it possible that Minecrift broke my ingame chat?
Even starting the regular Minecraft jar without any mods does not show me the chat or lets my write anything
I won't say no, since its Mojang's launcher after all. But I can't imagine a way that it could affect it. Does the keyboard work for other in-game use? I'm sure you have, but you've enabled the HUD with F1 right? There may be some chat settings that got overwritten, though we don't specifically write over those. All versions share the options.txt, optionsof.txt and optionsvr.txt
yeh, i can see other Hud Elements fine. Owning a Hydra I still prefer Keyboard and Mouse for Minecraft for some reasons, thus yep it's working. I will take a look at those options files, maybe I find something. So you and others don't have this issue?
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Jademalo »

Have you checked in multiplayer options to make sure the chat wasn't disabled?
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Dakor »

Jademalo wrote:Have you checked in multiplayer options to make sure the chat wasn't disabled?
haha, thats it! I did not know there was a option for this, thanks!
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Jademalo »

Dakor wrote:
Jademalo wrote:Have you checked in multiplayer options to make sure the chat wasn't disabled?
haha, thats it! I did not know there was a option for this, thanks!
No problem! :D
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Croccy22 »

mabrowning wrote:Their Quat::rotation() is wrong.

Use this instead:

Code: Select all

void convert_euler(float yaw, float pitch, float roll, sixenseControllerData *output) {
  auto mat =
    Matrix3::rotation( roll,  Vector3( 0,  0, -1 ) ) * 
    Matrix3::rotation( pitch, Vector3( 1,  0,  0 ) ) *
    Matrix3::rotation( yaw,   Vector3( 0, -1,  0 ) );
  auto quat = Quat(mat);
  
  quat.fill((float*)&output->rot_quat);
  mat.fill((float(*)[3])&output->rot_mat);  
 }
GENIUS!!!!

This works perfect. All Pitch/yaw/roll behaving exactly as expected and minecrift working perfectly on my DIY Rift. Thankyou to everyone who has worked on this. It is by far the best experience for VR EVER!!!!!

I will now get on and start playing a bit more and see if I can find any errors or if I can think of any improvements.

One thing I did think of which i'm not sure if you guys are doing or not. Since the Official Dev kit got released with a 7 inch screen, I read that the SDK does partial overlap to bring the centers in line with your eyes? Do you guys implement this in minecrift even if a rift isn't detected? If so would it be possible to have an option to disable it so that people who are using 5.6 inch screens don't get effected.

I can't tell if it is effecting me or not and playing is quite comfortable so far, but I guess if you are doing partial over lap then all the time i'm playing i will be cross eyed slightly :D.

Thanks, Matt.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Tbone »

CaptnYesterday wrote:It has been a few days, but work, demoing, (and playing alot of minecrift) has kept me busy. I swear that I am starting each sessions with the intention of testing very specific things but then... well i figured out how to make torches and mining picks and all of a sudden my little hovel is well lit and awesome. I think I'm having the most video game fun since I was a kid and got N64 and Mario 64 on Christmas morning! 3 of the most notable moments:
1. It started raining and I hit escape. :woot The rain and world paused but I could still look around. BRILLIANT! Definitely thought, 'Hmm, this is what Neo must feel like". You have to try it.
2. The thunder and lightning. You really feel the world's presence. I kept look up after a lightning flash before I noticed what I was doing. Seriously cool stuff.
3. But...there are tall black enemies that can teleport? that scares the sh*t out of me when they are around. I love it.
Ok enough of my gushing love of your Minecrift. I will get back on topic.

I tested build #82 and I can no longer see through the world when close to walls (almost miss that exploit. It was neat). Tool tip text is also perfectly readable in achievements. Great job guys.

I found 1 issue during long term gameplay: (TLDR Mouse cursor seems to get misaligned and jumps to the edge of the screen/keyhole)
-Example: It was jumping to the left side of the screen tonight. (FYI, all VR options are default so mouse controls horizontal not vertical) When you drag the cursor back toward the center of your view, it just appears on the left again. The cursor does not go off screen but only to the far left so that if i move it any further, it turns my character. Over a short time, you must use peripheral vision to mine. Despite re-centering to correct for drift, the cursor still jumped to the left ( i think it can occur to the right as well but that did not happen to me). I was able to correct for this with ought quitting the game, but am unsure of how. I centered via F1 and within the VR Options and it did not seem to change things. The hud was centered, but mouse would still jump left when dragged to about center screen. Eventualy it corrected itself, but was very jarring and not controllable during this out of sync time.

The only thing i noticed is that when it started, my hud had drifted quite far to the right. Far enough that it was out of view. Maybe this had something to do with the courser jumping left?

Sorry for such long/poor explanation of just a single issue. If you need to reproduce because my explanation is as clear as American insurance policies, I recommend not calibrating the rift so that your hud drifts away faster. I expect that the cursor will eventually start start jumping to the side opposite of where your hud drifts. (if they are even related).

That one issue was the only game stopper I have found now. Took an hour of game play before it happened both times.
I'm having this issue as well. It makes it very hard to defend against enemies. I just keep dying because I can't find my cursor. Is there a mode where the cursor stays attached to the center of where you look?
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by mabrowning »

Tbone wrote:I'm having this issue as well. It makes it very hard to defend against enemies. I just keep dying because I can't find my cursor. Is there a mode where the cursor stays attached to the center of where you look?
In VR Settings->Controller,
Keyhole width->0 will lock horizontal
Decouple Look/Aim OFF will lock the aiming to the center of your eyes.

Have fun with your neck workout ;)

I'd first try lowering the keyhole to be ~45degrees. That might help it not get lost. I could probably also add a vertical keyhole... might be good..
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by CaptnYesterday »

mabrowning wrote:
Tbone wrote:I'm having this issue as well. It makes it very hard to defend against enemies. I just keep dying because I can't find my cursor. Is there a mode where the cursor stays attached to the center of where you look?
In VR Settings->Controller,
Keyhole width->0 will lock horizontal
Decouple Look/Aim OFF will lock the aiming to the center of your eyes.

Have fun with your neck workout ;)

I'd first try lowering the keyhole to be ~45degrees. That might help it not get lost. I could probably also add a vertical keyhole... might be good..
The different options for control are amazing and each seems to work well for a variety of users. Just another reason I am so excited to help test this. The potential for mass adoption through simplicity of installation and functional VR integrated UI is staggering.

Quick question. Wouldn't the last two options equal the same result?
"Keyhole width->0 will lock horizontal & Decouple Look/Aim OFF will lock the aiming to the center of your eyes."
Or is this assuming that vertical is already decoupled? Currently I use the mouse for horizontal only. What method do you find is most comfortable for you?
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by mabrowning »

CaptnYesterday wrote:Quick question. Wouldn't the last two options equal the same result?
"Keyhole width->0 will lock horizontal & Decouple Look/Aim OFF will lock the aiming to the center of your eyes."
Keyhole width is (currently) for horizontal.

Decouple Look/Aim is for vertical.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Tbone »

So the key was to turn Free Look - Vertical OFF as well as the Keyhole to 0, as well as Decouple OFF. Now the cursor stays in the center of my screen. I understand that means more head movement, but that's much more intuitive for me than trying to keep track of the cursor, especially when it keeps bugging out to the left or right of the screen.

I wouldn't mind increasing the keyhole if there was one for the vertical as well. I keep losing the cursor at the top or the bottom. So if there's a way to lock the cursor into 45-90 but prevent it from moving the view up and down if it hits the border, that would be ideal.

In the end it'd be nice to end up with the cursor staying relatively center with the flexibility to move a little left, right, up, and down so that I don't have to crane my neck to get some tricky angles.

Loving Minecrift! Thanks!
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by mabrowning »

Tbone wrote:So if there's a way to lock the cursor into 45-90 but prevent it from moving the view up and down if it hits the border, that would be ideal.
Yep, thats exactly what I had in mind for vertical keyhole.

I should probably ensure the mouse movement is natural: I put a lot more effort into tuning the hydra, which has a hard time getting "lost". ;)
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by mabrowning »

Poll everybody:

When I add controller support, how do you think the aiming cursor should work:

1. The joystick position directly controls the aim "offset" from the center of the view. aka, if you let go of the joystick, the crosshairs are always in the center, but moving the aiming joystick moves the crosshairs relative to that.

or

2. The joystick position directly controls the aim "offset" from forward direction. aka, if you let go of the joystick, the crosshairs are always pointing directly forward, but moving the aiming joystick moves the crosshairs relative to that.

or

3. The joystick moves around a crosshair that would act like a pseudo-mouse. If you let go of the joystick and looked up and down, the crosshairs would stay pointing at the same place (within a keyhole). This is more-or-less how modern games work, but with the head tracking moving "around" the crosshair.

or... something else? What would you call all these options?
Last edited by mabrowning on Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Jademalo »

I would actually say all three, if that's not too m uch trouble. I've used 2 as an option on the wii with Dolphin, and its situational, but usable.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by CaptnYesterday »

With Jademalo. All 3 (Not sure what is optimal until I try it).
Testing with: ATI 7970, 8GB 1600 ram, Core i7 4770K 3.5Ghz, Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Java 7 x64. For science... you monster.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Tbone »

Looking forward to controller support! I'm a PC gamer, so it's weird to prefer a controller, but with the Rift, that's the way it is.

With HL2, I use left stick to move forward, back, and strafe. I use right stick to rotate (really makes me wish everything was wireless so I could spin around). And I aim with my head. All of that seems most natural to me, but I know other people prefer to aim with the stick instead of the head. I definitely prefer aiming with the head.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by mabrowning »

FYI, b84 has very initial support for controllers. Can someone with an Xbox 360 try it out to see if it works at all? There are known issues with using triggers/joysticks as "buttons" (like "Mine block"), and I haven't implemented any aiming yet.

You'll need to change the "Move/Aim Control" Mode to "Controller", then click "Remap Controls" (I don't save them yet, so its required every time).
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Croccy22 »

Really good that you are adding support for more controllers. But just a reminder to people that now FreePIE can emulate the Hydra, you can create a script to support any controller you want including Wiimotes and PS Move controllers with full motion sensing.

I know native support is obviously easier for people but my next experiment will be to use the move controller as the second hydra.

Matt.

PS my preference for control so far is to turn off keyhole, decouple the head, and disable pitch effects camera. This way the mouse basically control your body and the crosshair and you are free to look around whilst walking along without effecting your direction. That seems closest to real life for me.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by mabrowning »

Croccy, I cannot rely on FreePIE. If it works for you, great. But it's windows only.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by mabrowning »

And b85 has much better controller support, including looking (just #3 for now). Still some bugs with origin reset, and the mappings still aren't saved (need to find a good way to do that...), but you can actually use it now for playing the game. There isn't a GUI for joystick sensitivity (yet), but you can adjust it in optionsvr.txt.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by Croccy22 »

I have a 360 Controller for my Pc at home so will give it a try :-).

Matt.
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Re: Minecrift Discussion Thread

Post by CaptnYesterday »

Resolution/aspect ratio and extended vs Mirrored testing. Here is the testing setup:
::Resolution In the Minecrift options set to default and determined by windows.
::All resolutions displayed are set from windows desktop.
::DVI cable rather than HDMI used because my GPU (and many cards) limits color range in HDMI output. 0-255 vs 16-235
::FPS option in Minecrift set to unlimited.
::All FPS are relative to my machine (ATI 7970, 16 GB ram, Phenom II X4 955 BE 3.2GHz)
::All other Minecraft/Minecrift options left at default from the original installation and crift-patching (Except for AA & FSSA where applicable to test).

-1280x800 (16:10)
+ FPS 90-120
+ Quality: Base line. Looks good enough to play except one key issue. Texture surfaces "shimmer"* (for lack of a better word) at a distance (maybe 10 blocks) and Up close (1-2 blocks away) textures (example: wood/Dirt walls) shimmer and shift when your head movement is minimal and near horizontally level.

-1280x800 (16:10)+ Minecraft's AA X12
+ FPS 40-50
+ Quality: Better with edge blending than without AA. When looking at texture sufaces, they still shimmer, but less so.

-1920x1080 (16:9)
+ FPS 90-115
+ Quality: Very smooth texture surface and text boxes. No 'shimmer' effect at a distance or up close. Outperforms 1280x800 with or without AA with increased FPS compared to AA. I was expecting the difference in aspect ratios to be noticeable/distorted when scaling from 16:9 to the rift's 16:10, but was pleasantly surprised that this was corrected (there used to be horizontal stretching on ROLL but this has been fixed somewhere between release 74 and 82).

-1920x1200 (16:10)
+ FPS (don't know as I could not see fraps in rift and monitor could not duplicate this res. Expect close to 90-115)
+ Quality: Very good and almost indistinguishable from 1080p down-scaling. Menus and UI elements are larger (uncomfortably closer to the user). Can this be changed and aligned with the other resolutions above?

-1280x800 (16:10)+ Minecrift FSAA x2 (VR Settings->Optics/Rendering->FSAA
+ FPS 80-115 (a few rare dips into 50s & 60s)
+ Quality: Visually beats out 1080/1200p down-scaling. Performance slightly lower. My eyes liked focusing more on 1080p and when turning my head, it felt like increased latency or a drop in FPS. I know for certain the FPS was 85-90 at the time and I cannot understand FSAA increasing latency?

*Shimmer: The shimmer effect up close on textures is reminiscent of the 'heat distortion' surrounding a flame. If you would like to test this at its most obvious, run the game in duplicated or extended 1280x800 (no down scaling). The shimmer effect comes from the pixel alignment during display of horizontal lines. Very obvious in menus and standard block textures. Stark contrast can be seen when tilting your head about 45 degrees left or right. The shimmer effect disappears regardless of resolution or AA(tilted pixels handle straight lines better). Shimmer is very distracting in direct and peripheral vision when playing long periods of time as shimmer can be perceived as 'movement'.


Extending vs Duplicating/Mirroring displays:
-Duplicating displays with Monitor and Rift.
-Noticeable latency increase across all demos/games (for me, difficult to feel with 5-10 minute tests) and Not optimal for extended gameplay or testing. Duplicating via an HDMI/DVI splitter may help?
+Preferred method for demoing as you often need to guide people and see what they are doing.

-Extending Display with monitor (Rift as main display of course)
+Latency disappears and the look tracking is smooth as butter
-Infuriating having to navigate the desktop in the Rift. You get used to it and much faster at dragging windows over to the monitor, but it remains both the most technically sound and worst user experience. Is there a windows display configuration that could help this?

I actually tested all resolutions above with extended vs mirrored display setup. FPS and picture quality was the same so I combined the results above.

TLDR:
-1920x1080 or 1920x1200 down-scaled to rift offers easily the best experience with both quality and performance under all tested circumstances.
EDIT--1280x800 + Minecrift FSAA x2 offered better blended textures that down-scaled resolutions. This one is up to preference.
-'Extended' display setup offers a better extended play experience but should not be needed during testing.
-These notes are meant to help with Rift DK display setup for testing or extended play rather than patches or changes for future releases (except for the menu/UI proximity under 1200p, see above).

(First found 'Duplicated Display Latency' from Joe (Ludwig) and DVI vs HDMI brought to my attention by a great post from Geekmaster)

Sorry for the long post, hopefully a one-time read for you all and applicable for most, if not all, rift DK1 Demos/Games. Questions/Corrections welcome.

EDIT 1: AA was enable via Options->video->quality->'Antialiasing'
will retest and edit this post using AA from: VR Settings->Optics/Rendering->FSAA (oversampling)
EDIT 2: Added in Edit 1 tests
Last edited by CaptnYesterday on Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Testing with: ATI 7970, 8GB 1600 ram, Core i7 4770K 3.5Ghz, Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Java 7 x64. For science... you monster.
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