Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift)

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2EyeGuy
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by 2EyeGuy »

3Tree wrote:
cybereality wrote:In particular, it will pre-warp the image to match the Oculus Rift optics, handle custom aspect-ratios (needed for the Rift's strange 8:10 screen), and utilize full 3DOF head-tracking.
Will we be able to turn off the 3D option and utilize just these features? I wanted to be able to use your driver with this upcoming device in the future:

http://www.fundable.com/3-dvision
Why? Cybereality's driver is going to make MUCH better 3D than that device, since he has access to the actual polygon data and their 3D coordinates and that device doesn't.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by cybereality »

@3Tree: There is no reason to use that product with my software, and honestly I bet it doesn't even work. Auto 2D-to-3D is almost always garbage.

@bobv5: Source engine support seems pretty good, so it should work with HL2 and probably any mods for it. But I haven't tested this so I can't be sure.

Also, I am getting pretty close to having something ready. I'm still having some issues with the Hillcrest tracking but I don't want that to hold things up. I bet once I get the real Rift tracker everything will be fine. So I don't want to spend too much time with the Hillcrest that maybe only a few people will even be using. Otherwise things are looking good.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by 3Tree »

@2EyeGuy + @cybereality

From what I saw and heard, it seems to work as described (unlike other devices/TVs with a similar feature). You also don't gain any increase in latency and you don't lose any fps. Not to mention this device will work on nearly all if not all 2D content. Automatic 3D support for pretty much everything that was made for 2D (and made for 3D content too) is a plus in my book. You would just need the tweaks for Oculus. You can kind of consider this thing the Oculus Rift of 2D to 3D converters in that it actually works the way you expect it to lol.

Cyberreality, since you seem to live in NY you can actually go check out the device for yourself, if you're interested. The inventor of the device also happens to be the inventor of LCD projectors and he lives in NY. His contact info is given in the link I posted. His name is Gene Dolgoff.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by EdZ »

3Tree wrote:You also don't gain any increase in latency
I hadn't realised we had AV devices that run on magic and pixie dust yet. That tech is always five years away!
Algorithmic 3D upconversion is about as viable as algorithmic colourising of monochrome video. Both require making some pretty substantial guesses about data that simply isn't present in the source. Large film studios hire many, many people and spend tens of thousands of man-hours manually upconverting 2D films to 3D, and even then it looks pretty terrible.
Last edited by EdZ on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by cybereality »

Well, I have some big news to share. Was going to wait until later in the month but with articles coming out about the driver I thought it would be better to set the record straight.

Vireio Perception will now become free open-source software!!!

I spent a lot of time thinking about this and I think it is the best thing to do for everyone. All the Rift owners will get free software to start playing on their device, developers will have something to play with or learn from, and I guess I will get some credit for starting an open-source project. I did have some dreams of selling the software and getting rich, but I don't feel like the driver is really a polished product ready for consumers. I would feel bad selling something that wasn't totally solid, and that I couldn't get behind 100%. So there you go.

The bad news is that I probably will not be able to continue supporting the software. One of the things I wanted to avoid was releasing a commercial product, and then being stuck supporting it for years. With my work situation I just wouldn't have the time to give it the kind of support it needs. With an open-source project many people can contribute and fix the software themselves, or add new games, etc. probably better than I could just as one guy. So I hope some people here will be interested in picking up the torch and keeping the software alive.

As much as I enjoyed hacking away on DirectX (and what a great learning experience), I have other interests and hope to be able to make my own original VR content. And I wouldn't be able to do that if I was stuck hacking on other people's games. So hopefully with the free time I have left I can work on some cool little demos that I think people will be really excited about when they experience it. But its been a great learning experience, and I'm really glad I made it this far.

So expect the initial release (source and binaries) to come out within the next week or two. I'll admit, there are still some issues, but I think its a good basis for future work. I was planning on using GitHub, as that seems to be the most popular but I am open to other ideas if there is something better. Please let me know what you guys think. Thanks.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Mel »

cybereality wrote:Well, I have some big news to share. Was going to wait until later in the month but with articles coming out about the driver I thought it would be better to set the record straight.

Vireio Perception will now become free open-source software!!!

I spent a lot of time thinking about this and I think it is the best thing to do for everyone. All the Rift owners will get free software to start playing on their device, developers will have something to play with or learn from, and I guess I will get some credit for starting an open-source project. I did have some dreams of selling the software and getting rich, but I don't feel like the driver is really a polished product ready for consumers. I would feel bad selling something that wasn't totally solid, and that I couldn't get behind 100%. So there you go.

The bad news is that I probably will not be able to continue supporting the software. One of the things I wanted to avoid was releasing a commercial product, and then being stuck supporting it for years. With my work situation I just wouldn't have the time to give it the kind of support it needs. With an open-source project many people can contribute and fix the software themselves, or add new games, etc. probably better than I could just as one guy. So I hope some people here will be interested in picking up the torch and keeping the software alive.

As much as I enjoyed hacking away on DirectX (and what a great learning experience), I have other interests and hope to be able to make my own original VR content. And I wouldn't be able to do that if I was stuck hacking on other people's games. So hopefully with the free time I have left I can work on some cool little demos that I think people will be really excited about when they experience it. But its been a great learning experience, and I'm really glad I made it this far.

So expect the initial release (source and binaries) to come out within the next week or two. I'll admit, there are still some issues, but I think its a good basis for future work. I was planning on using GitHub, as that seems to be the most popular but I am open to other ideas if there is something better. Please let me know what you guys think. Thanks.
Sounds great, but can/will you set up some sort of 'donate' mechanism? I'd like to throw some money your way just for the hell of it.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by TilliK »

sounds like a good plan to realese it as open source! will help the oculus rift to get a good start in the gaming community. But I feel your pain when something dont go as it was planed, I whould have bougt it! ;)

BTW we need someone to work on arma 2 the only game i can think of with seperate head/torso movement!
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by space123321 »

I agree - a donation for your efforts would be great!

I am sorry to see your commercial plans have changed for this project however I am totally excited to give this a shot on the DIY rift ASAP!
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by brantlew »

Sounds great CyBer.

My only experience with open-sourcing is with the FreePIE project. We had it first on SourceForge and then moved it to GitHub, but honestly so far I haven't liked GitHub as much. Admittedly this probably has mostly to do with my comfort level with CVS/Subversion versus my ignorance of Git, but I haven't found out yet what is so great about GitHub. For some reason I can't selectively synchronize/check-in individual files with Git (only the entire project) which is really annoying when I have partial development that I want uploaded. Also SourceForge has it's own forum tools built in which GitHub does not. Hopefully this post will get blasted with all the great things about Git, because I actually really want to know.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by FingerFlinger »

I really like Git! But it's all I've used, so maybe I just like having source control.

EDIT:As for partial check-ins, I can't think of any time I have wanted to only commit changes to certain files?

Cyber, I'll definitely throw a couple of bucks your way. Your driver is going to be a pretty big deal for all of the early adopters.
Last edited by FingerFlinger on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by MSat »

Sounds great, Cyber! Thanks! A donation box would certainly be fair. It might even provide a bit of motivation to continue working on it.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Fredz »

brantlew wrote:We had it first on SourceForge and then moved it to GitHub, but honestly so far I haven't liked GitHub as much.
I've been using Git and Github at work for the past 10 months and I quite like it. I've been using CVS in a previous job for one year and I find Git/Github better on most aspects, even if I didn't like the decentralized aspect at first.

I guess you need to get used to it, that'll come with time. Don't hesitate to try to create alternate branches for testing some ideas, work on them, stash things not supposed to be commited, merge branches, etc. That's the real power of Git.

I also very much like the Web interface and the direct connection between Issues and commits, very valuable to maintain a project over time. Commits can close issues or refer to them (the commit link appear in the issue), milestones can help to keep track of things to do, screen caps can be done in Issues with a simple Ctrl-V in Chrome, etc. A lot better than what SourceForge or equivalent forges can provide IMO.

As for the open source direction the Vireio driver is taking, it's nice since more people will have access to it. But as with any other open source project, its success can only be guaranteed by the people working on it. And that may be a major pitfall, especially if you (Cyber) don't intend to actively maintain it. Especially since that kind of software really needs a dedicated task force to be able to add support for games one by one.

Emerson open sourced his Biclops driver quite some time ago, and there hasn't been any commit in the past 7 months despite the major work was done. I hope Vireio will not take this route but will instead follow more closely what is happening with FreePIE which seems quite lively. I think to help doing this a nice website would certainly be a good idea, a simple Github repository is not the best way to attract more people.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by brantlew »

FingerFlinger wrote:EDIT:As for partial check-ins, I can't think of any time I have wanted to only commit changes to certain files?
For example, I've got this in my directory.

my_new_complete_file.cpp
my_uncompleted_research.cpp
my_uncompleted_research.dll

I may be working on something for months but not ready to release it while simultaneously making changes or bug fixes. In CVS, I would just selectively check-in my_new_complete_file.cpp But the GitHub tools don't like me to do that. They want me to put in everything or else I can't synchronize. So I end up wasting a lot of time moving files in and out of directories before synchronizing with GitHub. So what's the solution? Do I really have to create a new "branch" on my local drive just so I can work on a couple extra files. What gives GitHub ??
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Fredz »

brantlew wrote:So what's the solution? Do I really have to create a new "branch" on my local drive just so I can work on a couple extra files. What gives GitHub ??
That would be the best solution, what Git has basically been written for. You simply have to create a dev branch as opposed to the master branch that you want to connect to upstream. Branches in CVS and SVN have been a pain, but in Git it's very natural. My coworker often creates temporary branches to test new ideas, going back to another branch is simply a "git switch" away.

The other possibility is to stash specific files - you can even give a name to this stash action - so these files don't get commited when you push, but I find that only really useful when I was working on something and some more urgent thing came back. This way you can rapidely resume your work from where you were at after you've pushed the important changes.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by mahler »

brantlew wrote:My only experience with open-sourcing is with the FreePIE project. We had it first on SourceForge and then moved it to GitHub, but honestly so far I haven't liked GitHub as much. Admittedly this probably has mostly to do with my comfort level with CVS/Subversion versus my ignorance of Git, but I haven't found out yet what is so great about GitHub.
GitHub isn't that great by itself, but it was one of the first user-friendly hosting sites which supported Git at the time, so that's where most of the content went, so that is what people know. There are quite a few good alternatives, but I personally stick with GitHub for now.

But Git is awesome :)
For some reason I can't selectively synchronize/check-in individual files with Git (only the entire project) which is really annoying when I have partial development that I want uploaded.
If I understand you correctly, that should be easy to solve.

Git has two steps for committing.

1) Staging area
2) Actual commit

If you have changes in 10 files, but only want to commit 2. You first stage the two files with 'git add [filename]' and then commit the entire staging area (2 files). You can do the same with the other files. After you made all the commits for your feature, you can push to the origin (@GitHub for example)

The other thing you have to keep in mind is that the master is now local. So try to see the origin as the main branch, and when you push your commits, it's actually merging, not synchronizing. If you want to maintain separate features, maintain separate branches on your local machine.
Also SourceForge has it's own forum tools built in which GitHub does not.
Yeah, GitHub has issue-tracking and a Wiki, that's about it. Pretty limited. Not sure if Cyberreality cares about that. I think he might like the MTBS3D forums :)
Hopefully this post will get blasted with all the great things about Git, because I actually really want to know.
Come on IRC (channel #oculusdev on EFnet) and if you like to discuss more.
I may be working on something for months but not ready to release it while simultaneously making changes or bug fixes. In CVS, I would just selectively check-in my_new_complete_file.cpp But the GitHub tools don't like me to do that. They want me to put in everything or else I can't synchronize. So I end up wasting a lot of time moving files in and out of directories before synchronizing with GitHub. So what's the solution? Do I really have to create a new "branch" on my local drive just so I can work on a couple extra files. What gives GitHub ??
There is a trick around that.

Code: Select all

git stash
This will temporarily put any changes out of view from the branch. Then you can act like there are no changes (except your commits) ... then after you merge with origin you can re-apply your stack by typing

Code: Select all

git stash apply
This will merge those change into your branch.

See this blog-post: https://ariejan.net/2008/04/23/git-using-the-stash
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by 3Tree »

EdZ wrote:
3Tree wrote:You also don't gain any increase in latency
I hadn't realised we had AV devices that run on magic and pixie dust yet. That tech is always five years away!
Algorithmic 3D upconversion is about as viable as algorithmic colourising of monochrome video. Both require making some pretty substantial guesses about data that simply isn't present in the source. Large film studios hire many, many people and spend tens of thousands of man-hours manually upconverting 2D films to 3D, and then then it looks pretty terrible.
I should say without any noticeable increase... Anyway check out some of the previews on the links he posted. He mentions what you said and talks about the different methods companies use today to do upconversion and why they don't or didn't work too well.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by superbike81 »

CyberReality: I have no coding knowledge to speak of whatsoever so I'd like to make a request.

There is a fairly popular (30,000+ active members) pay to play realistic racing sim called iRacing that I would love if you could make compatible with your driver. I would be more than happy to pay for an account for you, it gives you basic access to a few different cars and several tracks, everything after that has a content purchase required. The problem is that the game is entirely online and launches through a website. There is a big community of developers that create plugins for it through the API (honestly I don't know what that means).

I know of 10 people so far including myself who have purchased a dev kit, but I have a feeling most of them are like me and aren't truly developers. The iRacing staff has not commented on if they have ordered a dev kit or if they plan on implementing Rift support. So I'd like to make a request/proposal that you join iRacing (I'll pay for it), as well as possibly working something out with the other dev kit iRacers where we could likely pool together a little money for a donation for your effort as well. Once we get our dev kits I'm sure we can be your testers as well.

Just a thought, if you aren't interested, no problem, just trying to get the idea out there.

Thanks! :)
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by FingerFlinger »

@brantlew
What Fredz and mahler said. I make a new branch every time I embark on some new tangent or bug fix; it's very convenient! Also, I forgot about stash. I don't think I've ever had to use it.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by yautjacetanu »

well this definitely sounds much more likely to gain mileage as an open source thingy because i'm guessing lots of people will find it fun just to tinker with it.

However I'd still be happy to pay for it. You can still sell opensource software so maybe its worth doing that initially, just with an opensource license so that people can give it away for free/ modify it? Then change things as other start to modify it?
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by STRZ »

It's a nice move to make it open. Depending on the license you pick, you have control over what others are allowed to do with it, open source doesn't mean that others are allowed to copy it if you exclude it in the license. It's a technical advantage because as developer you're not the only one who want that it's compatible with anything, du to collaboration with others you advance much quicker.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by jayoh »

cyber,

this is a great move for the community and smart from becoming a slave to a commercial product with your other commitments.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by shent1080 »

I think allowing everyone to mess around with the software will be great, more hands on deck the better, if it could get a listing on the board index page as well that would help keep it alive. Cyber, i think you should let people donate, you've worked on the project for a while now and i imagine it's been very frustrating at times.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by cybereality »

Thanks, guys! Don't think I will do the donate thing (always felt like begging for change to me) but I really appreciate the support.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by bobv5 »

But you wouldn't be asking for money, you would be accepting money they offered.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by 2EyeGuy »

cybereality wrote:Vireio Perception will now become free open-source software!!!
Are you sure? You could always sell it first and then open-source it later.

Or you could open-source it first and still sell it. Other companies have tried that.

You've worked really hard on this project, and I was hoping you'd make some money on it. Software is even more important to VR than the hardware.

Oculus seem to be hiring lots of people, so I think they should have been paying you to do this, since it's so important for the success of their hardware. I hope Oculus will give you some money for doing this. Maybe you should ask them for some.
cybereality wrote:Thanks, guys! Don't think I will do the donate thing (always felt like begging for change to me) but I really appreciate the support.
Now that's just ridiculous. It's not like you're standing on the side of the road begging random passers-by for change while offering them nothing but unpleasantness. You made a quality product that people want to buy, but you won't take their money.

Now SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by 2EyeGuy »

3Tree wrote:@2EyeGuy + @cybereality

From what I saw and heard, it seems to work as described (unlike other devices/TVs with a similar feature)...
I wasn't saying it was rubbish, just that it's impossible for a device that doesn't have access to the polygon x,y,z data to be as good as a device that does have access to that. It's not their device's fault, just a limitation of what the PC is outputting to other hardware.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by 2EyeGuy »

brantlew wrote:Sounds great CyBer.

My only experience with open-sourcing is with the FreePIE project. We had it first on SourceForge and then moved it to GitHub, but honestly so far I haven't liked GitHub as much. Admittedly this probably has mostly to do with my comfort level with CVS/Subversion versus my ignorance of Git, but I haven't found out yet what is so great about GitHub. For some reason I can't selectively synchronize/check-in individual files with Git (only the entire project) which is really annoying when I have partial development that I want uploaded. Also SourceForge has it's own forum tools built in which GitHub does not. Hopefully this post will get blasted with all the great things about Git, because I actually really want to know.
Use TortoiseGit instead. It always asks which files you want to check in.

Yes, Git is a pain. Especially for the PC. But it has advantages for projects that aren't centralised or that have lots of experimental feature branches.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by brantlew »

2EyeGuy wrote:Use TortoiseGit instead. It always asks which files you want to check in.

Yes, Git is a pain. Especially for the PC. But it has advantages for projects that aren't centralised or that have lots of experimental feature branches.
I'll have to check it out. I'm not too fond of TortoiseCVS, but surely it's better than GitHub for Windows. They really dumbed down that product too much and it doesn't seem to give you control over anything. If there's one demographic that doesn't need dumbed down software it should be their target audience - software developers.

(well maybe you need to dumb it down for web developers.) :lol: just kidding
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by hammerbot »

Gongrats on getting featured on PCGamer :D

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/10/virei ... ulus-rift/
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Okta »

Congrats on the article Cyber. It was well written and struck some basic truths, the Rift is nothing without guys like you writing software for it. I agree you should charge even some token fee for your efforts. Even if you only support a few key titles well, you will have greatly increased the % of ready to go content for Rift adopters at launch.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by zino »

That's great news cyber! Will you stay on as maintainer and gatekeeper?
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Durante »

I'm really happy that you decided to open source your work. I wouldn't have had any issue with paying for it mind you, but I strongly believe that having a centralized open source project for this is best for the community overall.

Implementing good Rift support -- especially without source access and exclusively through injection -- requires a significant amount of work per-game, and with an open source project people with an interest in making different games work can learn from each other, and even pool resources to implement various reusable functionality. I'd be very happy to contribute.

And this news finally got me to register for an account here (I've been following the Rift on this forum since the middle of last year or so). Hi everyone!
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by zino »

Completely agree with Durante. I was going to buy this driver, but it will require an entire community of people to get it running on all interesting games, so Open Source will make that much easier to handle. Source access for interested people could have gone a long way, but OSS is also a motivator to contribute to a greater extent. At least it is for me.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by brantlew »

Welcome Durante.


@cyber: A lot of good points about this type of project being well suited for open sourcing. There are just too many games for 1 man to go it alone. My suggestion would be to structure the project in such a way that it is modular as possible so that contributors only need to work on details that pertain to the particular game they are trying to inject. I know that's probably easier said than done, but the more modular it is, the easier it will be for contributors, and the more titles that will be added.
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Likay
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by Likay »

@Cyber
When doing something creative the journey is most often far more interesting than the destination. ;)
It's great that you share your work like this and i hope it will grow bigger!
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gray
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by gray »

loserspearl
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by loserspearl »

Is there any word on whether or not you will add support for Metro 2033/Metro: Last Light? It would be the only reason I would buy the Oculus Rift or the driver support.
MaterialDefender
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by MaterialDefender »

Metro 2033 is supported by my VorpX driver. This is only tested with the demo and an nVidia card so far though. So this isn't 100% official info, don't order the Rift because of this post. An official list will be released around the time the first batch of the Rift devkit ships, maybe even before that.

Judging from the first minutes this games seems to be a perfect fit for the Rift, but if it were for only one single game, I would think twice about buying a devkit. It's called devkit for a reason.
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cybereality
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by cybereality »

@zino: Of course I will be here on the forums to help people out if they decide to contribute and are confused about something. And I will probably make some contributions early on (for example adding Rift tracker support when the SDK becomes available). But I won't be taking an active roll in the continued development.

@brantlew: The code is pretty object-orientated, and each game/engine has its own class file. The common stuff is in the base classes. So people could be working on different games and probably not run into too many conflicts.

@gray: Nice! At least they reported on the open-source news and didn't just copy-paste from the original article.

@Likay: Yeah, thanks.

@loserspearl: Metro is not supported at the moment, but I guess it could be possible if people want to put the effort into it.
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Re: Introducing Vireio Perception (3D Driver for Oculus Rift

Post by eqzitara1 »

Bulletstorm is a great game that's probably easy to support that would look awesome.
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