oculus to include IR hand tracking in future updates?

[Mark2036]

Just wondering, now that dk2 is coming with a positional tracking IR camera, would it be very hard to implement separate ir led gloves or wands to help incorporate hand tracking too? All under the same system, no need for Hydra or other external solutions?

In general, is the oculus team working on any hand / arm / body tracking at all? Or are they leaving it to be optimized by 3rd partys?

[PatimPatam]

Oculus mentioned at the SXSW talk that they are working on it and making progress, but since they haven't announced anything yet it's probably unlikely that is going to be ready for CV1 launch. I would say if we haven't heard anything about it after E3 then it's going to be a clear no.

I think it would be in their best interest to do it, since it would present many more opportunities for developers, and would allow porting games from PS4 to PC (and the other way around) much easier.


On my side i am developing a game in my spare time that requires motion tracking, so using my Razer Hydra and PS Move for now and hoping for the best (a new Oculus peripheral soon). If somehow i manage to finish something half-decent (between 1 and 2 years from now) and there are still no cheap motion control alternatives for PC then i will probably try to publish on PS4.


More discussion in here:
https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/v ... =25&t=5912

[Fredz]

On my side i am developing a game in my spare time that requires motion tracking, so using my Razer Hydra and PS Move for now and hoping for the best

Any opinion about the advantages/drawbacks of these two controllers from a VR perspective ?

[GeraldT]

I only used the Hydra in development, but from what I have read optical tracking is likely more responsive.
With the Hydra I never figured out to get a real 1:1 feeling, but I did not spend too much time. It is a cool toy though

[zalo]

Optical is a lot more responsive, precise, and accurate than magnetic.

Fields distort, fields jitter, and fields lag (because you need to average the jitter).

[PatimPatam]

Just getting started with the project, but my first impressions are:

Razer Hydra
- no occlusion problems
- slightly better precision
- slightly lower latency

PS Move (PS3 camera)
- much better accuracy
- wireless
- price

Obviously i'm still using the PS3 Move camera for now, but i expect that with the PS4/OR cameras both precision and latency will be much better. Overall i prefer optical; i really can't stand the accuracy problems of the Hydra due to magnetic field interference, which is something i'm not sure the STEM is going to be able to fix. Occlusion problems are mostly solved by staying at a proper distance from the camera, i think users can understand that.

[GeraldT]

what is the difference between accuracy and precision?

[PatimPatam]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision

Basically the Hydra will better detect small variations of the controller position (more precision) but the virtual representation of these will not be as correct as using the Move (less accuracy). So the Hydra feels more responsive but the results are not what you expect, creating a disconnect with your avatar.

See here for a good example by Doc OK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IERHs7yYsWI#t=3m30s

[Dantesinferno]

Check my thread out guys: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=18571

[Mystify]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision

Basically the Hydra will better detect small variations of the controller position (more precision) but the virtual representation of these will not be as correct as using the Move (less accuracy). So the Hydra feels more responsive but the results are not what you expect, creating a disconnect with your avatar.

See here for a good example by Doc OK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IERHs7yYsWI#t=3m30s

Yeah, that was my issue with the hydra using the tuscany demo. I hold out my hand in an arbitrary positoin, take off the rift, and where my avatar's hand is and where my hand is are two different things.

[GeraldT]

ahh ... okay. I guess this will get a lot easier when the headset position is tracked too - because now you can move the head without the weapon being translated in position correctly

[zalo]

Accelerometers have absurdly high precision, but almost no accuracy (when integrating for position). People have used accelerometers to measure sound! (not quite 44100hz, but 1000hz is a start).

So combining a high accuracy system with an accelerometer is often very beneficial.

The leap motion is veeeeery interesting in that it has both very high accuracy AND precision. When it works, it's the best tracking ever (within 2ft. heh).

[GeraldT]

The leap motion is veeeeery interesting in that it has both very high accuracy AND precision. When it works, it's the best tracking ever (within 2ft. heh).

still my favorite non standard input device, I really hope it will see a revival with VR since it is a nice combination!

[Fredz]

Thanks for the feedback PatimPatam, I also have my doubts about the accuracy of the STEM system until they publish some hard numbers.

Which library did you use to support the PS Move/Eye by the way ? Don't you think the precision can be enhanced by keeping the same hardware but only with better algorithms ?

[Okta]

Being that there is no hand tracking in DK2 there will be no hand tracking in CV1. So if CV1 is roughly 1.5 years away we might be waiting another year or more after that until CV2 or DK3 which might address some hand tracking.

A shame Faculus chose not to address this now but they don't even have 360 tracking either so VR is still a long way away...

[PatimPatam]

Thanks for the feedback PatimPatam, I also have my doubts about the accuracy of the STEM system until they publish some hard numbers.

Which library did you use to support the PS Move/Eye by the way? Don't you think the precision can be enhanced by keeping the same hardware but only with better algorithms ?

Oh i still haven't integrated Move controls, for now just been messing around with the Move.me SDK a bit. I did use CL Eye SDK for the Posittron project, but it's only for the PS3 camera.

I do think it's possible to improve the precision with better sensor fusion algorithms, but honestly i don't want to spend time with this, busy enough learning UE4, Blender, etc. If i'm going to release something for the PS4VR+Move in the end i will have to get hold of the PS4 Dev Kit, and i expect the PS4 SKD to be good enough.

Being that there is no hand tracking in DK2 there will be no hand tracking in CV1. So if CV1 is roughly 1.5 years away we might be waiting another year or more after that until CV2 or DK3 which might address some hand tracking.

A shame Faculus chose not to address this now but they don't even have 360 tracking either so VR is still a long way away...

Well i'm still pretty optimistic, i think there's a fair chance that they will release something soon. Between Sony forcing their hand, and Facebook's money i think this is more likely now than it was a couple weeks ago. Maybe it's one of the things they mentioned that they are going to be able to do now that were unrealistic before.

For instance they could release the controllers separately of DK2 for developers that are interested, but use the same camera (it seems to have just about enough FOV).

[MSat]

The company that manufactures the IR point tracking image sensor in the wiimote has released a similar version for companies to integrate into their own products (http://www.pixart.com.tw/product_data.a ... ify2_id=33). These are really interesting parts in that they're capable of 200FPS, and have integrated DSP which can track up to 8 points, along with several other functions. While I haven't seen any pricing, I think it's safe to assume they're pretty cheap given that their equivalents are used in the wiimote, and aren't much more sophisticated than optical mouse sensors which tend to be inexpensive. With at least a stereo pair (or more to cover a larger FoV) integrated in an HMD, you're halfway to performing positional tracking of a wrist band or handheld controller with IR leds/optical reflectors. While they're not as flexible as having proper camera modules which can also be used for AR (or being able to see stuff without removing the headset), they require far less bandwidth and post processing. I estimate that the post processing needed could be performed on a microcontroller.