CES 2014 Oculus Rift

[diwata]

It's strange that it's quiet. I assume everyone's either at CES or reading about it elsewhere

Here are some articles I've found online so far:
Plugging into Crystal Cove, the new high-resolution, position-tracking Oculus Rift
Oculus reveals Crystal Cove prototype virtual reality headset with intriguing OLED display

[zalo]

There are two threads about it already, but focused on specific features.

Also, MTBS is dying (or reverting to it's pre-rift state? doubtful).

[diwata]

I found the one about the lenses and didn't want to hijack it. I was expecting more discussion though, maybe it's because it's just confirmation of the screen and positional tracking that everyone has already discussed previously. But I do see a more active thread in Oculus' own forum so I'm spending some time there.

[cybereality]

MTBS is still alive, but maybe not as happening as after initial "rift rush".

[brantlew]

MTBS is still alive, but maybe not as happening as after initial "rift rush".

Sounds like a good time to get back into MTBS. I liked it around here more when it was quieter.

[Hooves]

Im incredibly surprised that all this wait and talk of ground breaking technology to tackle positional tracking. Ended up being an Oculus Rift. With what amounts a track ir track clip pro mounted to it......... this both made me sad and happy. Sad because its not ground breaking. Happy because at least i know track ir works well. But i have go admit i was REALLY looking forward to not having to worry about other lights in my gaming room.

[brantlew]

There's a reason why professional/industrial/military position tracking and mo-cap systems nearly always use optical systems. It works and it works well. Other non-occluding technologies just can't offer the level of accuracy and responsiveness required for head tracking. It may not be ground breaking technology - but the level of performance we are offering is unprecedented at a consumer price level.

[geekmaster]

There's a reason why professional/industrial/military position tracking and mo-cap systems nearly always use optical systems. It works and it works well. Other non-occluding technologies just can't offer the level of accuracy and responsiveness required for head tracking. It may not be ground breaking technology - but the level of performance we are offering is unprecedented at a consumer price level.

What is the framerate of the tracking camera you are using at CES?

[drifter]

I bet it's a cheap 30 fps cam ?
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/statu ... 2353905665

Btw, very sexy headset, brantlew

[GeraldT]

I bet it's a cheap 30 fps cam ?
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/statu ... 2353905665

that's interesting, but I do wonder how the LED distinction works. Looking at the coded LEDs they use for tracking with the castAR this solution looks quite similar (just backwards since with the castAR the cam is in the goggles).

But I guess such coded LEDs do need a faster cam? Otherwise it is interesting to see most of the tracking actually not being based on optical tracking and it just being used to offer reference key frames. At least that is what I am guessing from Carmacks tweet.

[drifter]

Yes , that is what I understand too. With the accelerometers alone you can track an accurate position for about half a second (before showing the limits of second derivative). So an optical correction is only needed from time to time (a bit like magnetometer drift correction).

[blazespinnaker]

Does it support multiple cameras and the Omni is all I want to know.

If it doesn't....

[TheHolyChicken]

Does it support multiple cameras and the Omni is all I want to know.

If it doesn't....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpNQHNkJY1g

They don't confirm or deny either way. They do say, however, that they are focusing on absolutely nailing the sit-down experience. I'm sure you could just point the camera at a standing person, but mileage may vary.

The thing to remember is that this is also a prototype; it's a demonstration of where they're headed, and and a new baseline of the minimum you can expect from the consumer version. It's not final. Tracking techniques might be changed, capabilities may be extended. Perhaps multiple cameras will be possible. We'll have to wait and see.

[GeraldT]

Does it support multiple cameras and the Omni is all I want to know.

If it doesn't....

... very few people would care if you are honest. Lets first get the Rift established before we put too much hope on the additional peripheries.
Putting the focus on the most obvious use scenario is just what they need to do. Not saying ignoring awesome stuff like treadmills, but once VR is a real thing those things will follow.

[Attreyu]

How is relative positioning implemented in a game ? Not the Rift. I mean, do you need a special implementation or can it be activated with command line parameters ?

[MSat]

How is relative positioning implemented in a game ? Not the Rift. I mean, do you need a special implementation or can it be activated with command line parameters ?

It's part of the Oculus SDK.

[blazespinnaker]

If there is no 360 degree head tracking, there might as well be no head tracking.

It's just a half assed solution. I can't imagine for a moment they'd think that's acceptable.

Isn't the whole point of the rift that you can look behind yourself?

It looks like a pretty decent upgrade, but to do something that lame would just be unbelievable.

[Attreyu]

How is relative positioning implemented in a game ? Not the Rift. I mean, do you need a special implementation or can it be activated with command line parameters ?

It's part of the Oculus SDK.

Thanks ! So games using it should be developed with the Rift only in mind in order to have this type of functionality, correct ?

[GeraldT]

If there is no 360 degree head tracking, there might as well be no head tracking.

Sitting at your desktop playing a game - how often do you expect to actually look so far behind you that you loose tracking?
It's just not perfectly covered in very rare game situations, something that won't bother 99% of players ever.
You can still look behind you, just not in the field of maybe 170-190.

For a better tracking you will need at least a second camera (and that camera won't be as nicely placed as the one above your monitor), for something like the Omni I wouldn't be surprised if you need even more.
Of course they need to address this and fix it over time, but for the initial introduction this seems like an issue of low importance imo. It's much more important to make it feel like a simple to use device that people can adapt to without having to rearrange the furniture.

@Attreyu - that is not a given. As a developer you can make use of those options, but you don't have to. For example there might be problems with some titles ... imagine you put your head through the roof of your car because you stood up. Developers would have to make sure you can't and that involves work ... so they might just turn off that feature (not very likely with a game made for VR of course ... just an example why one would want to).

[Attreyu]

@Attreyu - that is not a given. As a developer you can make use of those options, but you don't have to. For example there might be problems with some titles ... imagine you put your head through the roof of your car because you stood up. Developers would have to make sure you can't and that involves work ... so they might just turn off that feature (not very likely with a game made for VR of course ... just an example why one would want to).

Hey Gerald, thanks. I was just curious on who sits the burden of implementing this functionality - the game devs, the HMD devs or both, bearing in mind that for example - simple movement requires you to have a controller input of some sorts (mouse, keyboard, controller, etc.). Logically for positional tracking you would need sensor aquisition from a 6DOF/9DOF source (Rift tracker, AR, FreePie supported sources, etc.) and not just the Rift. If it's just for the Rift, it's a bit "funny", like only being able to play Quake if you have a Logitech mouse.

[blazespinnaker]

Apparently the screen changes color or something currently if you twist around too much to alert you that you're 'going out of range'. (face palm)

If I have to sit down, I might as well just use my very large and extremely HD monitor.

Anyways, nobody believes for a second this is what they're going to do for consumer so I'm not really going to waste time debating the point.

[MSat]

@Attreyu - that is not a given. As a developer you can make use of those options, but you don't have to. For example there might be problems with some titles ... imagine you put your head through the roof of your car because you stood up. Developers would have to make sure you can't and that involves work ... so they might just turn off that feature (not very likely with a game made for VR of course ... just an example why one would want to).

Hey Gerald, thanks. I was just curious on who sits the burden of implementing this functionality - the game devs, the HMD devs or both, bearing in mind that for example - simple movement requires you to have a controller input of some sorts (mouse, keyboard, controller, etc.). Logically for positional tracking you would need sensor aquisition from a 6DOF/9DOF source (Rift tracker, AR, FreePie supported sources, etc.) and not just the Rift. If it's just for the Rift, it's a bit "funny", like only being able to play Quake if you have a Logitech mouse.

The Rift SDK provides position and orientation data (positional data is provided if you have the appropriate hardware connected). The developer can choose to ignore positional data if they want. As far as your question about what seems to be a matter of compatibility, the SDK license does not allow it to be used with non-Oculus hardware for obvious reasons.

[MSat]

Apparently the screen changes color or something currently if you twist around too much to alert you that you're 'going out of range'. (face palm)

If I have to sit down, I might as well just use my very large and extremely HD monitor.

Anyways, nobody believes for a second this is what they're going to do for consumer so I'm not really going to waste time debating the point.

Cool. Make your own HMD with all the features that you want.

[blazespinnaker]

"As far as your question about what seems to be a matter of compatibility, the SDK license does not allow it to be used with non-Oculus hardware for obvious reasons."

Not true! You can use it with DIY HMDs.

[LikeMike]

Personally I am just dying to get any news about the consumer version or a second dev kit. I couldn`t afford the Rift when it came out and decided a little later to hold off until the main features are there and the screen a little higher resolution with less motion blur. I have tried the HD devkit at Gamescom and was still a bit disappointed in the screen. But it seems like they have tackled most issues. I don`t really like, that we need a camera for positional tracking, but I guess it`s the only feasable solution (how about a camera directly at the headset?). Now I would really like to finally get my hand on one of those. Wasn`t it E3 2012 when they said the consumer Rift will come out in "months not years"? Well, they said the same thing again at Gamescom 2013. It would be really great to get this thing this year...

[Inscothen]

While they never committed a release date, did the Abrash low persistence OLED implementation delay the consumer release?

I know with other features(6DOF, time warping, improved optics, form factor design etc...) needing more work but with the LCD Rift it seems they could easily release late 2014. With LowPers OLED, it kinda seems like the consumer version will be mid -late 2015 unless they get the right display in the next 6 months and fast track production(if they want to stockpile to have great launch supply). I'm hoping LG or another OLED maker can get Oculus the right display and not just a mobile/tablet screen.

"As far as your question about what seems to be a matter of compatibility, the SDK license does not allow it to be used with non-Oculus hardware for obvious reasons."

Not true! You can use it with DIY HMDs.

Last time I checked I think it said any non-commercial HMD unless Oculus approved. I wonder if they will approve of competing budget HMD's using the OVR SDK in order to drive competition, create a VR standard that they lead, and increase access to mass market VR. It would be kinda cool to see cheap Rift clones(like the DevKit's 3DOF or alternate tracking methods) with 120Hz TN or OLED panels, and something like infiniteye's method incorporated into the SDK.

[TheHolyChicken]

They've said a couple of times that "2014 is going to be a great year for VR" (often accompanied by a smile). They don't want to tie themselves to a release date, but it looks like some time this year is likely.

[Attreyu]

While they never committed a release date, did the Abrash low persistence OLED implementation delay the consumer release?

I know with other features(6DOF, time warping, improved optics, form factor design etc...) needing more work but with the LCD Rift it seems they could easily release late 2014. With LowPers OLED, it kinda seems like the consumer version will be mid -late 2015 unless they get the right display in the next 6 months and fast track production(if they want to stockpile to have great launch supply). I'm hoping LG or another OLED maker can get Oculus the right display and not just a mobile/tablet screen.

"As far as your question about what seems to be a matter of compatibility, the SDK license does not allow it to be used with non-Oculus hardware for obvious reasons."

Not true! You can use it with DIY HMDs.

Last time I checked I think it said any non-commercial HMD unless Oculus approved. I wonder if they will approve of competing budget HMD's using the OVR SDK in order to drive competition, create a VR standard that they lead, and increase access to mass market VR. It would be kinda cool to see cheap Rift clones(like the DevKit's 3DOF or alternate tracking methods) with 120Hz TN or OLED panels, and something like infiniteye's method incorporated into the SDK.

They won't support 3rd party HMDs, I think Palmer told it directly a couple of weeks back. They want the best experience for their device only, because that's why they're investing their own money in game development and they won't let lower quality HMDs spoil the user experience, I think he said. And that's fair enough if you were in their shoes.

On the other hand, Valve declared that they're working on an universal VR standard, that's going to be used by everyone.

Not sure what to believe.

[blazespinnaker]

I don`t really like, that we need a camera for positional tracking, but I guess it`s the only feasable solution (how about a camera directly at the headset?).

I think it's the right way to go and it's supposedly very accurate / low latency.

Teasing everyone with a prototype that doesn't support 360 degree tracking though is a tad cruel. But rest assured, it's just a tease.

[angrybob]

If I have to sit down, I might as well just use my very large and extremely HD monitor.

In this interview(timestamp 4:35) it sounds to me like Oculus is focusing on sit-down VR for the v1 consumer Rift. Personally, I think this is the right way to go: all my favorite experiences with the dev kit have been sit-down experiences. I understand why people with more faith than me in current ODT/wide area positional tracking technologies feel differently though.

I don`t really like, that we need a camera for positional tracking, but I guess it`s the only feasable solution (how about a camera directly at the headset?).

I think it's the right way to go and it's supposedly very accurate / low latency.

Can you get it to be accurate and low latency without setting up optical markers throughout the room? Are there any working demonstrations of this yet?

[blazespinnaker]

The reason they're talking about sit down experience is because they're trying to depress sales of Virtuix Omni who obviously they're worried is going to be a competitor at some point.

It's really beneath Palmer and I'm surprised he'd let Iribe and friends do something like that. The whole thing is pretty off putting, TBH.

But at the end of the day, if they release a consumer kit without 360 degrees they'll be a laughing stock for doing something so half baked. They have a group of very very world class talent, there's no way they'd do something that lame.

[MSat]

The reason they're talking about sit down experience is because they're trying to depress sales of Virtuix Omni who obviously they're worried is going to be a competitor at some point.

It's really beneath Palmer and I'm surprised he'd let Iribe and friends do something like that. The whole thing is pretty off putting, TBH.

But at the end of the day, if they release a consumer kit without 360 degrees they'll be a laughing stock for doing something so half baked. They have a group of very very world class talent, there's no way they'd do something that lame.

wut

[GeraldT]

wut

wut? you do know how internet trolling works MSat?

[MSat]

wut

wut? you do know how internet trolling works MSat?

I'm not trolling. I'm just taken aback by blazespinnaker's comments.

edit: Wait, I'm guessing that you weren't saying that I'm the troll.

[GeraldT]

wut

wut? you do know how internet trolling works MSat?

I'm not trolling. I'm just taken aback by blazespinnaker's comments.

edit: Wait, I'm guessing that you weren't saying that I'm the troll.

... you guess right. sorry, should have made that clearer

[jeremyc9]

http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/01/10/oculu ... -ces-2014/

Nice little article from a guy that tried the new dev kit even though the first dev kit made him vomit.

[MrGreen]

The reason they're talking about sit down experience is because they're trying to depress sales of Virtuix Omni who obviously they're worried is going to be a competitor at some point.

It's really beneath Palmer and I'm surprised he'd let Iribe and friends do something like that. The whole thing is pretty off putting, TBH.

But at the end of the day, if they release a consumer kit without 360 degrees they'll be a laughing stock for doing something so half baked. They have a group of very very world class talent, there's no way they'd do something that lame.

[budda]

This thread is becoming aLAMAing.

The LAMBasting must cease.

[blazespinnaker]

Hey, I can do images as well:



Go to reddit, plenty of people are complaining about the lack of stand up support. The problem is they are alienating a significant faction of their base by doing this. That doesn't seem like a viable biz plan.

[MSat]

We're not reacting to the fact that you're upset about the lack of 360 degree motion tracking support in the Crystal Cove prototype, but by your accusations that the reason for this is due to some secret plot by Brendan Iribe to undermine future competitor Virtuix. Your tinfoil is showing.