WizDish + Rift - a first impression

[Flassan]

To follow up on the interview questions asked by 3DFocus I wanted to explain the recent WizDish development.
http://www.3dfocus.co.uk/3d-news-2/cons ... omes/13096

The videos you may have seen were shot with the previous version. It worked well enough to demonstrate the idea but many rightly commented on the amount of effort required, as evidenced by the amount of arm swing. We have been working on that problem for a few years and after exhaustive lab tests, fabrication and test cycles we have developed and applied for a patent for a combination of materials and properties that exhibit far lower surface energy. The upshot is that the WizDish performance is much improved and requires very little effort. Having said that friction is proportional to load so the heavier you are the more effort you expend.
It's now a single moulding which has halved the weight and made it much cheaper and easier to manufacture.
A lot of different people have tried it and with a short demonstration virtually everyone can use it straight away. I will be completely honest with you here: it rewards good posture and balance which is very exciting to physiologists but raises the bar when it comes to using it with the Rift.
In the tests we've done since the Rift arrived with complete strangers everyone has been blown away by the Rift (they're amazed that a tablet and a couple of thick lenses can produce such an unexpected result).
We were please to find these same people say that the WizDish for them adds just as much to the experience as the Rift.
While they find the Rift far better than the Vuzix 1200VR glasses they can use the latter to walk around comfortably on the WizDish but the Rift can be a bit more challenging for beginners. This seems to be related to the need to gain VR legs. Ordinarily you feel very stable on the WizDish but you have to be more careful when wearing the current version of the Rift.
When first trying the Rift most people look around and are amazed. If you want to walk and have to do so using a joystick or key there is an immediate BIP (break in presence). The opposite happens when walking on the WizDish because the virtual world doesn't just look real - it starts to act real too! and that is a tremendously exciting feeling.
Because the WizDish motion keeps your centre of gravity in the centre of the dish it’s far more stable than it may at first appear. However, as has already been discussed, fast paced AAA FPS games are probably not the best choice. These are some options to consider:
1. Use less challenging content, at least to start with.
2. Have something safe to fall onto (that could be fun)
3. Wear a climbing or Bariatric harness (great for including those who may find regular walking difficult).
4. Build a frame around the WizDish to hold or catch you. We are less keen on this approach for a variety of reasons but mostly because this is more difficult than it might seem. Adding such a safety device you lower people's guard and it must be impossible for it to topple over under any circumstances. Frames may also present a hazard of their own particularly if they fail to support and collapse with the user.
That said we do like shent1080's drawing, though there are practicalities to remember

treadmill.jpg

If shent1080’s drawing was built it might be best if it wasn't attached to the WizDish so it scooted away rather than toppled. Making it height adjustable or user assembled both add to the danger of it not working when required to. The other factor is that a frame would cause a permanent BIP. I would compare it to watching a film where either the boom or director was visible in almost every shot. Some would find it ruins the experience while others may be able to ignore it.

[Zoide]

Thanks for the info, Flassan

Could you post pictures or a video of the new setup?

[Flassan]

Sure. I should have some fairly soon.
Another thing I thought I would point out is that I can better understand brantlew's desire to separate head and locomotion tracking now that's Ive' tried the Tuscany demo. In a more tourist type situation I'm more likely to look around as I walk. As I looked in through the window of the villa as I walked past I went in that direction instead of straight ahead. Obvious, but it still causes a BIP.

[crespo80]

This new all black version looks waaaaay cool and seems to be light, simple, easy to produce and cheap!
You know something is very well engineered when it takes away all unnecessary complexity

Regarding the coupling with the rift, when I first saw your videos I had the feeling that it would not work so easily, because your external vision is completely blocked and you don't have any clues to balance your body on a sliding surface.
So I always had the fear that some sort of safety device would be needed, even more if it target the consumer market, and that would ruin the wondeful simplicity of the wizdish.

Anyway, if you can set a low price, maybe in the dual digit or just a tad higher, you can really sell a ton of these on kickstarter, and the international shipment cost could be fairly low given the small weight, I'm very interested

[Flassan]

Thanks Crespo80
Dual digit is a tough ask at low volume but could be possible at high volume.
No one who's tried it with glasses is in any doubt that VR gaming has a future so we are very optimistic.
Julian

[Nedo]

I cant imagine allways stand up while gaming, if this can work while you sitting on the couch, this would be cool
and exsactly something i was searching!

[Flassan]

Hi Nedo, this is for standing but I wouldn't imagine you would want to always stand to play games.
There will be some games like that are greatly enhanced and if you only stand for some of your gaming time it'll do you a lot of good.
The idea is to make some experiences more intense and therefore more fun. e.g. Zombies and Second Life strike me as good contenders.

[Nedo]

Thanks for the replay!
I still dont have my Rift, but what you write about BIP sounds very interesting.
I see the WizDish for mainly walking around at slow speed inside new architecture designs,
it could really enhance the immersion.
I will support it on kickstarter, and i really like the new design, easy and light.

R
Nedo

[jf031]

The WizDish doesn't have an integrated motion sensing solution, correct? I was excited about this until I realized that a Kinect (for the PC) costs more than $200. Any alternatives to Kinect for "tracking?"

edit: I'm whining about the Kinect becuase I have zero interest in buying it (especially at that crazy price). Interesting technology, but it has way too much latency and lack of accuracy to be useful for any real-time activities beyond what it is being used for with the WizDish (the brain is apparently forgiving of latency when it comes to walking). I really hate the Kinect, honestly.

edit 2: yeah, maybe the next Kinect will be worthwhile.

[yoshithedog]

I see two types of games being distinguishable in VR gaming.
First, "body games" - where you are controlling virtual, humanoid body and where devices such as WizDish will be used.
Second, "simulator games" - where you are sitting down and using some additional controls, such as joystick or driving wheel.
Now I am curious what to do when a game like GTA, where you can walk around and then get into a car or a plane, emerges in VR.

WizDish close to sofa and virtual driving wheel/joystick using Leap Motion?

@jf031 - I'm afraid that some device like Kinect will be needed sooner or later to experience VR fully. 3D body tracking is a powerful feature after all.
But I'm also sure that the price of it will drop a lot, after all MS is planning to give Kinect v2 with every next-gen Xbox.

[Alejux]

Honestly, it seems like a lot of work. Doesn't seem natural to me.

IMO, it would be much better if it just captured pressure of steps and feet direction. Then you would just need to pretend to walk (walk in place), which is something we can do for long periods of time and still wouldn't need moving parts like a treadmill. But that's just my opinion.

[Flassan]

Hi jf031, you may be pleased to learn that the standard XBox Kinect is $97 on Amazon and works fine plugged into a PC USB port.
Not a lot of people know that. It's a simple, generic and reusable tool without moving parts and minimal wiring. I think they are also quite cheap on eBay.
I continue to be astonished by what people are able to do with it. Try these:
http://youtu.be/4_0JUMwhdBc
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... 91#p123391

We are kind of skating to where the puck is going to be with this (and have been for a decade) and can see the rapid evolution of many associated technologies. This is why we are concentrating on our unique part and offer it as a tool for anyone to use as they wish. This provides opportunities for other developers and integrators.

@yoshitthedog, good point. It would be quite possible to have a soft circular bench around the WizDish to sit on that also provides security for nervous users. Again, the simpler we keep it the wider the possibilities.

@Alejux. The WizDish doesn't have moving parts although I can't deny it looks odd to begin with, but then few expect the sensation of putting a Rift on for the first time! The need to try VR to understand it does present a few problems. When Super market trolleys were first introduced they had to pay actors to push them around before other people would use them
Researchers have used walking-in-place since at least the 90's. The main problem is that subjects wander from the spot and crash into the CAVE walls without realising it. When you stop moving foot switches are either on or off so a lot of processing is needed to convert that into believable virtual motion.
We found that walking or running on the spot tends to be a very tedious and non-immersive motion. Swishing your legs a bit while immersed just seems to convince your brain sufficiently to suspend disbelief.

Thanks for the questions.
Julian

[Flassan]

PS. Bob Berkebile sent me a link to a demo he did last night in which he uses a Razer Hydra to provide translation for the Oculus Rift
http://youtu.be/rNkda14YPCA
Following my Mirror's Edge test I suspect that accurate head movement will be important for walking in VR.

[3dvison]

So when will you be dishing out the dish..LOL,I mean, when will it be for sale ? Or will you be doing a Kickstarter ?

[Flassan]

So when will you be dishing out the dish..LOL,I mean, when will it be for sale ? Or will you be doing a Kickstarter ?

Hi 3dvision. Pretty soon now. While shooting the video we've been trying people who have never seen it before. Their reactions have been gushing but its really hard to capture that. They either say something like "This is F***ing brilliant" or wax lyrical once you stop recording

[yoshithedog]

One question came to my mind now:
How do you move backwards while facing forward?
Assuming you don't have any controller in your hands because you are using Leap for example.

[Flassan]

One question came to my mind now:
How do you move backwards while facing forward?
Assuming you don't have any controller in your hands because you are using Leap for example.

Hi yoshithedog. That's a good point. I think what will happen is that a new grammar will develop. For instance I've found it quite intuitive to raise both hands above the shoulders for jumping (that's very easy to spot with Kinect). A natural way to reverse would be to put both hands up in front of you as if to say 'back off'. If you wanted to retreat quickly in real life you probably wouldn't run backwards and in the same way because walk/running on the WizDish makes gaming feel more real you would feel strange running backwards on it. None of the people who have been on it have ever asked why they can't. I'm not sure if that's because they can't see a way to or if it never occurs to them.

[RaLz]

I wonder what happened to this project it looks like it could be a good solution however you can't really see how large the whole setup is http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&featu ... HfUpI66tfo

[Flassan]

I wonder what happened to this project it looks like it could be a good solution however you can't really see how large the whole setup is http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&featu ... HfUpI66tfo

Hi RaLz. I love all these ideas. A US naval college report about a much bigger device explained some problems with active floors. It's difficult to start or stop suddenly because it has to get you back to the center and your feet are pulled into each other when you turn.
We will have to see what people think but I don't believe its necessary to literally reproduce what looks right in the real world in VR. You can understand why some video glass manufacturers try to make them look like normal sunglasses but it was the realisation that they don't have to that allowed the Rift design.

[Flassan]

Just a quick update. It was great to demo the WizDish at Inition last week because they're VR professionals and wouldn't be easily impressed.
As it is they want it to be the centre piece of their part of the Digital Shoreditch festival next week (Shoreditch is in London and the main UK centre for tech. startups, Google etc.).

http://youtu.be/-8YW4Il1PJE

Its very apparent that accurate lag-free tracking of both head and feet are essential with the Rift because you can't rely on peripheral vision of the real world, so the new Kinect looks like a dream come true! You have to ensure clear line of sight because if the Kinect program thinks you've moved when you haven't (say because the detection is noisy or laggy) your instinct is to shift your weight to compensate which can impact balance. This was never going to be a long term problem and it looks like they've fixed it already.

[Moriarty]

Nice big article from Gizmag :

http://www.gizmag.com/inition-oculus-rift-vr/27701/


It's actually 3 interesting reviews in one : Inition VR Vertigo Simulator, WizDish, IGS Glove.

[Flassan]

Thanks DrZimmerman
He and the other tech journalists were great and all had a go. Despite the lack of translational tracking and some pretty dodgy Kinect foot tracking (partly me) they saw enough to convince them. We also had pictures on CNET and mentions in Wired and the Guardian as well as a video shot by T3 and some others.
The lady who came with the senior theVerge editor came back to try in an ankle length black dress and I was amazed the Kinect coped pretty well with that.
A number of VR walking experts from Universities quite far away (in UK terms ) came and said they liked the 'walk' action. The need to maintain good posture impressed them as well as that it's a lot of fun to use. I guess it halfway between walking and skating but who cares? - it's fun to do and feels just right in VR. The inflatable crash mat was for public liability purposes and was somewhat over the top even then. Great for sitting on though. About 100 members of the public tried it and all seemed to get off beaming afterwards. I guess it's pretty mind-blowing for them but a number of VR professionals were kind enough to say it was the best VR demo they've tried.

We submitted our Kickstarter project a week ago and it can go live as soon as they say. We let Antony, the award winning film maker who shot it, do whatever he wanted. We like his humour. This was his take on this event:

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO8mfcvO ... e=youtu.be[/youtube-hd]

[RoTaToR]

00:40 at this video:
A new "target Audience" is found. Women and their shoes! i see a great future for Shoe-related VR-devices!

[jaybug]

I put wizdish in the same category as the resistance band "treadmill simulator"

I see "walking in place" as the bar these products have to beat, and neither of them does.
The Omni actually does, but whether it can be sold at a reasonable price is another issue.

[Zoide]

I wouldn't judge the Wizdish so harshly without trying it. The good thing is that it should be relatively cheap to buy and light to ship. I can't wait for a bunch of people from the forum to provide us with reviews. That would be very helpful. Especially if someone were to do a head-to-head of the WizDish, Virtuix Omni, Viiwok, etc.

[Mystify]

I wouldn't judge the Wizdish so harshly without trying it. The good thing is that it should be relatively cheap to buy and light to ship. I can't wait for a bunch of people from the forum to provide us with reviews. That would be very helpful. Especially if someone were to do a head-to-head of the WizDish, Virtuix Omni, Viiwok, etc.

I really would like to see a single, impartial, person use both wizdish and omni and provide a comparison review

[Flassan]

Zoide and Mystify, that would be a great idea! A few VR and physiology experts and a cross section of 100 members of the public would also be good.

Hi jaybug, I wouldn’t have mentioned it but now that you have how certain are you that the Omni is bio-mechanically the same as walking? With the felt pads and high friction toe doesn't that mean you’re running on your heels? The girl and the video guys didn't convince me that they could use it.

Personally I doubt I would enjoy the “crotch crusher” as the guy called it, especially for the couple of hours I can easily use the WizDish for, but maybe I'm just too manly for an Omni . It’s possible that the baby walker harness and slightly mincing gait suggest deviation too.
If you concentrate on your weight bearing foot as you take a stride you will see that it describes an arc beneath your body that’s very similar to the surface of the WizDish. Having both feet touching makes it about half way between walking and skating, both of which are natural actions. Your weight is unsupported and remains equidistant between your feet as with real walking. We have done a lot of usability testing over the years to achieve this design.
But don’t get me wrong, if it doesn't infringe our patent I'm hoping the Omni has a successful Kickstarter, despite Jan buying a WizDish to find out how to do it

[TheHolyChicken]

I can't wait for a bunch of people from the forum to provide us with reviews. That would be very helpful. Especially if someone were to do a head-to-head of the WizDish, Virtuix Omni, Viiwok, etc.

I really would like to see a single, impartial, person use both wizdish and omni and provide a comparison review

Well I actually tried the WizDish (+Rift) not too long ago, and I won day 2 of the Omni competition, so perhaps I will be able to provide some insight. I have no idea yet when I will receive my Omni, before you ask.

[colocolo]

Zoide and Mystify, that would be a great idea! A few VR and physiology experts and a cross section of 100 members of the public would also be good.

Hi jaybug, I wouldn’t have mentioned it but now that you have how certain are you that the Omni is bio-mechanically the same as walking? With the felt pads and high friction toe doesn't that mean you’re running on your heels? The girl and the video guys didn't convince me that they could use it.

Personally I doubt I would enjoy the “crotch crusher” as the guy called it, especially for the couple of hours I can easily use the WizDish for, but maybe I'm just too manly for an Omni . It’s possible that the baby walker harness and slightly mincing gait suggest deviation too.
If you concentrate on your weight bearing foot as you take a stride you will see that it describes an arc beneath your body that’s very similar to the surface of the WizDish. Having both feet touching makes it about half way between walking and skating, both of which are natural actions. Your weight is unsupported and remains equidistant between your feet as with real walking. We have done a lot of usability testing over the years to achieve this design.
But don’t get me wrong, if it doesn't infringe our patent I'm hoping the Omni has a successful Kickstarter, despite Jan buying a WizDish to find out how to do it

Do you have a patent on low friction surfaces? that's like having a patent on physics.

[Flassan]

Hi colocolo
I can assure you the US patent office wouldn't let you patent friction or physics

They are extremely tough but fair. The patent is for the dish and low friction shoes. You have to prove to the USPTO the idea wasn't obvious and fully disclose how you could make it. Once an idea is proven it often looks obvious but I can assure you this wasn't. First of all no one believed anyone would want to walk around in a computer game. Hardly anyone in manufacturing industry will engage until you can demo a working prototype, although I did get some help from the National Physics Labs in the US and UK and the Institute of Engineering & Technology. Small independent inventors like myself give up everything to bring their dream to life. I started this when Palmer was 8 and my 13 year old daughter recently told me she'd never known a time when I wasn't working on the WizDish! I've spent most evenings and weekends plus much of my leave for the past decade on it as well as re-mortgaging. Take note if you're thinking of doing the same thing!

Patents have had bad press recently due to 3 things I can think of: a while back due to time pressure some silly patents got though, patent trolls suing without intention of manufacturing, and big corps. creating patent thickets. If there is a reason for patents surely its to offer some protection for the little guy who goes against all odds to give the world something completely new? Otherwise once you've done all the hard work and achieved the impossible someone else can come and take the credit.

Cheers,
Julian

[geekmaster]

... Patents have had bad press recently due to 3 things I can think of: a while back due to time pressure some silly patents got though, patent trolls suing without intention of manufacturing, and big corps. creating patent thickets. If there is a reason for patents surely its to offer some protection for the little guy who goes against all odds to give the world something completely new? Otherwise once you've done all the hard work and achieved the impossible someone else can come and take the credit. ...

On the news today, I heard that the POTUS is planning to "bitch slap" the patent trolls with some executive orders. Those patent trolls really do need that, but the POTUS has gotten drunk on issuing executive orders more than any president before him, and that sets a VERY BAD precedent, debasing the entire system of checks and balances that kept tyrany at bay for so long.

[rhinosix]

Hi Flassan,

Sorry if you've already answered this recently, but is there a WizDish 2.0 in the works?

[colocolo]

Hi colocolo
I can assure you the US patent office wouldn't let you patent friction or physics

They are extremely tough but fair. The patent is for the dish and low friction shoes. You have to prove to the USPTO the idea wasn't obvious and fully disclose how you could make it. Once an idea is proven it often looks obvious but I can assure you this wasn't. First of all no one believed anyone would want to walk around in a computer game. Hardly anyone in manufacturing industry will engage until you can demo a working prototype, although I did get some help from the National Physics Labs in the US and UK and the Institute of Engineering & Technology. Small independent inventors like myself give up everything to bring their dream to life. I started this when Palmer was 8 and my 13 year old daughter recently told me she'd never known a time when I wasn't working on the WizDish! I've spent most evenings and weekends plus much of my leave for the past decade on it as well as re-mortgaging. Take note if you're thinking of doing the same thing!

Patents have had bad press recently due to 3 things I can think of: a while back due to time pressure some silly patents got though, patent trolls suing without intention of manufacturing, and big corps. creating patent thickets. If there is a reason for patents surely its to offer some protection for the little guy who goes against all odds to give the world something completely new? Otherwise once you've done all the hard work and achieved the impossible someone else can come and take the credit.

Cheers,
Julian

But i think the Omni i still very different. First of all its a curved dish. The mechanism it works is due to low friction shoes(who can patent shoes with low to high friction?) that glide off the dish due to gravity and low friction. The gait movement is also different. I don't think that it touches the Wizdish in any point.
When does the Wizdish Kickstarter begin?

[Flassan]

Hi rhinosix
We can't rule out a 2.0 but our plan was always to wait until it's working as I've envisaged all these years before asking anyone to spend money.
It didn't seem fair for us to learn at your expense. Only now that we are completely satisfied with it's performance have we submitted to Kickstarter.

Hi colocolo
I'm not sure I follow but the Kickstarter should launch in a few days

[blazespinnaker]

The wizdish needs protection like the omni. We all know, of course that it's trivially easy to lose your balance with the Rift.

Check out famous big mike at 30 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfhemsGdQFk

Does anyone really want to be liable for that nonsense? No. Sure, one way to go is large airbags, but a harness like the omni is another way to go. Yet another way to go is a harness from the ceiling (which is the way a lot of professional simulation systems do it). Whatever the case - something needs to be done, and whatever it is will be awkward.

As for gait simulation, the only real immersive solution I can see so far is a motorized omnidirectional treadmill. But wizdish, omni, virtua-runner, or whatever.
They'll work in a pinch. Great for getting excercise.

[Flassan]

blazespinnaker. Thanks for sharing that video
If you think about how strong and heavy a frame would need to be to stop big Mike falling on his back you can see the problem we face.
If you find your balance going you tend to react quickly and even if you fall to the ground it's rarely that damaging unless from a height. Now imagine what damage a frame next to his spine could do if he was constrained within it? A much less serious consideration is that you are then responsible having provided only an illusion of safety.
We've asked many of around 200 people after they have had a go on the WizDish whether they would prefer a frame and almost all have said no (sometimes slightly indignantly!). Its a bit like asking whether you would like stabilisers with your adult bike sir.
We think many people would prefer to try it before deciding whether they want the added cost, size and weight because everyone who has tried it agrees its much more stable than it looks.

[jaybug]

Hi jaybug, I wouldn’t have mentioned it but now that you have how certain are you that the Omni is bio-mechanically the same as walking? With the felt pads and high friction toe doesn't that mean you’re running on your heels? The girl and the video guys didn't convince me that they could use it.

I don't believe the Omni is (feels like) the same as walking. Just that it feels more like walking than walking in place.

[blazespinnaker]

blazespinnaker. Thanks for sharing that video
If you think about how strong and heavy a frame would need to be to stop big Mike falling on his back you can see the problem we face.
If you find your balance going you tend to react quickly and even if you fall to the ground it's rarely that damaging unless from a height. Now imagine what damage a frame next to his spine could do if he was constrained within it? A much less serious consideration is that you are then responsible having provided only an illusion of safety.
We've asked many of around 200 people after they have had a go on the WizDish whether they would prefer a frame and almost all have said no (sometimes slightly indignantly!). Its a bit like asking whether you would like stabilisers with your adult bike sir.
We think many people would prefer to try it before deciding whether they want the added cost, size and weight because everyone who has tried it agrees its much more stable than it looks.

Well, I suppose airbags is one way to go, but nobody has room for the necessary amount of airbags you're going to need (and you need a lot for any real safety). People barely have room for the wizdish / omni / etc itself. Not to mention having to blow it up / suck out the air everytime.

You DO need a safety solution though. I think it's gross negligence to expect your users to blindly walk/flail around in the real without a harness or substantial airbag.

And in the US at least, that's major major damages if anything ever happens.

You can't even waive your rights to sue when gross negligence is involved.

I don't believe the Omni is (feels like) the same as walking. Just that it feels more like walking than walking in place.

Yes, exactly, I agree completely. The omni is an incremental improvement over walking in place.

[TheHolyChicken]

You DO need a safety solution though. I think it's gross negligence to expect your users to blindly walk/flail around in the real without a harness or substantial airbag.

I tried the Wizdish - I got used to it in just a few minutes, and never felt at any time that I was at risk of falling over. I'm sure there are those with worse balance than me, but I still don't see it as a huge risk.

[blazespinnaker]

You DO need a safety solution though. I think it's gross negligence to expect your users to blindly walk/flail around in the real without a harness or substantial airbag.

I tried the Wizdish - I got used to it in just a few minutes, and never felt at any time that I was at risk of falling over. I'm sure there are those with worse balance than me, but I still don't see it as a huge risk.

Yeah. I've never been in a car accident either, and yet they keep making me buy car insurance.

If it is so safe, why do all the wizdish videos have a large airbag around their product demos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... O8mfcvO8_E

Anyways, when you're twisting and jumping around quickly to dodge and blast your enemies with a gun in a fast paced FPS game, there's no way you're going to be able to maintain perfect balance without a harness of some kind. The immersion is intense and the disconnect between the virtual world and the real is going to
be very unbalancing at times.

And it's in these type of games were this stuff really shines.