First Impressions From Rift Owners

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Mel
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Mel »

OzOnE2k10 wrote:Interesting. What's the res / part number of that panel?
I gave you the info on the controller board last post. Here's the skinny on the panel:

HYDIS
HV056WX2 - 100
CP463016-01 02B

I would love to get an LVDS cable made. A while ago, I emailed the details and a photo to my city's cable-making guru, and he didn't even respond. Probably thought I'd choke at how much he'd have to charge.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by OzOnE2k10 »

Cool, that's the "standard" 5.6" DIY panel. I think it has a great image (although I haven't built my DIY yet).

My Hydis panel only just arrived yesterday, but I did extend the LVDS cable for Zach's panel and made this guide a while ago...
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=15554

I'm not sure how different the Hydis is to the 7" panel in the Rift?
It might not use the same LVDS connector, but if it does, I'd bet that it would work with the Rift's controller (don't plug it in yet though!).

Need to confirm what the DK1's panel is, then I can check if it has the same pinout / timings etc.
I know it's a bit cheeky, but it's only a matter of time before somebody pulls the DK1 apart. ;)

Must catch some sleepy time now (it's 4:20am here). Catch up later.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by brantlew »

@Mel: I haven't heard of anyone complain of blurry static images. I would suggest you email Oculus support. It sounds like you may have gotten a defective unit or something and we can remedy the situation in a timely fashion. Make sure to tell them you have built a Rift before.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Mel »

OzOnE2k10 wrote:Cool, that's the "standard" 5.6" DIY panel. I think it has a great image (although I haven't built my DIY yet).

My Hydis panel only just arrived yesterday, but I did extend the LVDS cable for Zach's panel and made this guide a while ago...
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=15554

I'm not sure how different the Hydis is to the 7" panel in the Rift?
It might not use the same LVDS connector, but if it does, I'd bet that it would work with the Rift's controller (don't plug it in yet though!).

Need to confirm what the DK1's panel is, then I can check if it has the same pinout / timings etc.
I know it's a bit cheeky, but it's only a matter of time before somebody pulls the DK1 apart. ;)

Must catch some sleepy time now (it's 4:20am here). Catch up later.
That's awesome news. I read your LVDS extension post a long time ago, but since I didn't see a photo of a ZIF connector like my unit has, I assumed they were different. And even if turns out the the 5.6" panel can be plunked into the Rift, it still doesn't solve my focus problem. I think the lack of lens-2-LCD distance adjustment (and perhaps IPD, too) is a big problem and hopefully will be a feature that makes it into the consumer version.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Mel »

brantlew wrote:@Mel: I haven't heard of anyone complain of blurry static images. I would suggest you email Oculus support. It sounds like you may have gotten a defective unit or something and we can remedy the situation in a timely fashion. Make sure to tell them you have built a Rift before.
That's a thought, but I can't imagine it's faulty hardware. It looks just like my DIY unit when I move its lenses away from the sweet spot.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by brantlew »

Mel wrote:
brantlew wrote:@Mel: I haven't heard of anyone complain of blurry static images. I would suggest you email Oculus support. It sounds like you may have gotten a defective unit or something and we can remedy the situation in a timely fashion. Make sure to tell them you have built a Rift before.
That's a thought, but I can't imagine it's faulty hardware. It looks just like my DIY unit when I move its lenses away from the sweet spot.
I meant that maybe the screen or the lens bracket was mounted improperly. If the distance between those is wrong then that would fit with your description.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by 3dvison »

Mel, Brentlew may be onto somthing.
You said you have twenty/twenty vision, so you would think Oculus would want one of the three supplied eyecups to work for people with 20/20 for sure. It does sound like somthing may just be out of whack.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Mel »

3dvison wrote:Mel, Brentlew may be onto somthing.
You said you have twenty/twenty vision, so you would think Oculus would want one of the three supplied eyecups to work for people with 20/20 for sure. It does sound like somthing may just be out of whack.
Well, since I'm the proud owner of two Rifts, it looks like I'll have to crack open box number 2 and see if it has the same problem. I'll report back tomorrow afternoon.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Mel »

I just finished reading a great to review here:

http://doc-ok.org/?p=548

And the author talks about image blurriness beingan artifact of the bilinear filter applied afterr barrel distortion and that when he turned it off in the Tuscany demo, the picture was much crisper. I wonder if this is what I'm seeing and that my brain is just super-sensitive to it?

I will check to see if the verio driver's distortion has been fixed up for the devoper kit, and If so, do a comparison.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Doc Ok »

Mel wrote:I just finished reading a great to review here:

http://doc-ok.org/?p=548

And the author talks about image blurriness beingan artifact of the bilinear filter applied afterr barrel distortion and that when he turned it off in the Tuscany demo, the picture was much crisper. I wonder if this is what I'm seeing and that my brain is just super-sensitive to it?

I will check to see if the verio driver's distortion has been fixed up for the devoper kit, and If so, do a comparison.
Blog author here. Quick test: do you clearly see the thin black borders around each pixel, i.e., the screen door effect? If so, it's not an optical, but a rendering issue, possibly due to the lens distortion correction. The blurriness I was talking about is really subtle, and with it, the individual pixels will still look crisp. If the pixels themselves look blurry, then there's probably something wrong with the unit.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Parallaxis »

Mel wrote:I just finished reading a great to review here:

http://doc-ok.org/?p=548

And the author talks about image blurriness beingan artifact of the bilinear filter applied afterr barrel distortion and that when he turned it off in the Tuscany demo, the picture was much crisper. I wonder if this is what I'm seeing and that my brain is just super-sensitive to it?

I will check to see if the verio driver's distortion has been fixed up for the devoper kit, and If so, do a comparison.
I hated that review, things like "there is screen door effect, fix it" is pretty useless critique.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by 3dvison »

Parallaxis wrote: I hated that review, things like "there is screen door effect, fix it" is pretty useless critique.
Thats strange, when I read the review I saw " I hope it will get fixed." Not "there is screen door effect, fix it"
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Frito »

awesome review
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by mickman »

I think it wise that each Rifter replying to this thread state whether or not they have properly calibrated their Rift.

No one has talked about going through the process... I recently watched a video where each eye is calibrated by focusing on a green line until it disappears.

I am under the impression perhaps a lot of users are simply donning the gear adjusting the cups and then loading a scene. .. yes ?


Here's a link to the SETUP VId. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P50fvL_EWYY[/youtube]


p.s you like the term.. for Rift owners... Hey are you a Rifter :geek:
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Okta »

Parallaxis wrote:
Mel wrote:I just finished reading a great to review here:

http://doc-ok.org/?p=548

And the author talks about image blurriness beingan artifact of the bilinear filter applied afterr barrel distortion and that when he turned it off in the Tuscany demo, the picture was much crisper. I wonder if this is what I'm seeing and that my brain is just super-sensitive to it?

I will check to see if the verio driver's distortion has been fixed up for the devoper kit, and If so, do a comparison.
I hated that review, things like "there is screen door effect, fix it" is pretty useless critique.
Maybe you should write a review full of flowers and rainbows to counter balance?
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Tirregius »

mickman wrote:I think it wise that each Rifter replying to this thread state whether or not they have properly calibrated their Rift.

No one has talked about going through the process... I recently watched a video where each eye is calibrated by focusing on a green line until it disappears.

I am under the impression perhaps a lot of users are simply donning the gear adjusting the cups and then loading a scene. .. yes ?


Here's a link to the SETUP VId. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P50fvL_EWYY[/youtube]


p.s you like the term.. for Rift owners... Hey are you a Rifter :geek:
Hi mickman,

I believe those calibrations are specific to Team Fortress 2. Right now, my understanding (in spite of not having having a Rift in hand) is that IPD, proximity/fov, astigmatic correction, etc. are application specific, as they are done at the gpu and, for the time being, there are no universal driver/wrapper settings.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Tirregius »

Mel wrote:I just finished reading a great to review here:

http://doc-ok.org/?p=548

And the author talks about image blurriness beingan artifact of the bilinear filter applied afterr barrel distortion and that when he turned it off in the Tuscany demo, the picture was much crisper. I wonder if this is what I'm seeing and that my brain is just super-sensitive to it?

I will check to see if the verio driver's distortion has been fixed up for the devoper kit, and If so, do a comparison.
This is a fantastic review. In most reviews I am left scratching my head a bit, trying to extrapolate what they are trying to explain due to the reviewers lack of knowledge on the subject. Those "layperson" impressions can be nice, but usually leave me with more questions than answers.

This is very well worded and written by someone with the knowledge and vocabulary to effectively write on the subject. Thanks so much for the post!
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Mel »

mickman wrote:I think it wise that each Rifter replying to this thread state whether or not they have properly calibrated their Rift.

No one has talked about going through the process... I recently watched a video where each eye is calibrated by focusing on a green line until it disappears.

I am under the impression perhaps a lot of users are simply donning the gear adjusting the cups and then loading a scene. .. yes ?


Here's a link to the SETUP VId. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P50fvL_EWYY[/youtube]


p.s you like the term.. for Rift owners... Hey are you a Rifter :geek:
I went through TF2's calibration process and it made no discernible difference to the image quality. And the calibration screen itself was really hard to read due to bad focus.

I'm gonna include an eye exam as part of my investigations. It's been a few years, and I have had a significant, weight loss-inspired change of diet over the last year (elsewhere, there's some discussion about this and how it may affect one's vision). Maybe I'm not as eagle-eyed as I think I am. :-)
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Dilip »

http://doc-ok.org/?p=548

The Best review i have ever seen man this i cried "This is IT!" made me remeber unboxing review of ICUTI VR920 (Now VUZIX VR920) from CYBEREALITY back in those days on his personal site

Author Has nice understanding of VR and good experinece over HMDs like PALAMER

ONE thing NOTICED From review

"On to latency. The first thing I noticed in the Tuscany demo was too much motion blur. We dug through the code, but could not find out what exactly is responsible for it. It is possible that the display screen can’t switch pixels fast enough, meaning that it’s a hardware effect that can’t be addressed, but wildly moving windows around while the Rift was mirroring the desktop didn’t appear to blur as much. So we believe it’s an intentional effect, buried somewhere in the SDK code where we haven’t looked yet. It’s possible that there is a recursive low-pass filter “hidden” in the lens distortion correction shader, enabled by some other bit of code globally enabling alpha blending with constant opacity. Must investigate further. (By the way: major kudos on providing the SDK source.)"

This Make me doubt May be at some stage of more ROWBUST SDK developed or CODES Revisited deeply some thing can be altered in such way it may remove that mBLUR Many talks about in reviews on MTBS also...
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by jf031 »

Dilip wrote:http://doc-ok.org/?p=548

The Best review i have ever seen man this i cried "This is IT!" made me remeber unboxing review of ICUTI VR920 (Now VUZIX VR920) from CYBEREALITY back in those days on his personal site

Author Has nice understanding of VR and good experinece over HMDs like PALAMER

ONE thing NOTICED From review

"On to latency. The first thing I noticed in the Tuscany demo was too much motion blur. We dug through the code, but could not find out what exactly is responsible for it. It is possible that the display screen can’t switch pixels fast enough, meaning that it’s a hardware effect that can’t be addressed, but wildly moving windows around while the Rift was mirroring the desktop didn’t appear to blur as much. So we believe it’s an intentional effect, buried somewhere in the SDK code where we haven’t looked yet. It’s possible that there is a recursive low-pass filter “hidden” in the lens distortion correction shader, enabled by some other bit of code globally enabling alpha blending with constant opacity. Must investigate further. (By the way: major kudos on providing the SDK source.)"

This Make me doubt May be at some stage of more ROWBUST SDK developed or CODES Revisited deeply some thing can be altered in such way it may remove that mBLUR Many talks about in reviews on MTBS also...
I bet the cause of "more blur" is that it is much easier for the brain to notice blur when the head is moving and the world is responding in kind. It is the same amount of blur caused by the display's pixel response, but more noticeable to the brain. I bet that that's the explanation.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Doc Ok »

jf031 wrote:I bet the cause of "more blur" is that it is much easier for the brain to notice blur when the head is moving and the world is responding in kind. It is the same amount of blur caused by the display's pixel response, but more noticeable to the brain. I bet that that's the explanation.
The thing that surprised me, and the reason why I pointed out the blur in the review, is that I have two other low-cost HMDs (eMagin Z800 Visor and Sony HMZ-T1) that have the same 60 Hz display rate, but don't show the same amount of blur. Same thing with the screen door effect; neither the Z800 nor the HMZ-T1 have that. And since those two are crap compared to the Rift in every other respect, I found those things noteworthy.

Bottom line, I'm not ready yet to blame blur entirely on the screen. I'll have to test more.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by jack612 »

Tuscany just seems to have way way more motion blur than anything else I've tried on my Rift. It's not nearly as noticeable in Epic Citadel, TF2, etc.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by OzOnE2k10 »

That's a great review btw, Doc OKulus. ;)
Good to hear from someone with a lot of previous experience in VR and the various headsets.
Also glad to hear the chromatic aberration is minimal on the DK1.

Fantastic videos showing the use of the Kinect too!
I never even gave it thought to show the user's real "body" in VR. Genius!

I agree about the lens flare thing as well. Quite unnecessary in a VR app IMHO.
JJ Abrams indeed, quite off-putting in the last Star Trek movie. lol

I think the screendoor will always be more pronounced due to the wider FOV in the Rift (and thus the effective "zoom" on the whole screen).
Is the FOV in the eMagin and Sony quite a lot lower than the Rift?

It is starting to sound like the Tuscany demo has a slight added blur somewhere in the chain?

@Mel - if you're saying that the display becomes clear when you move the eyecups manually, then maybe the eyecups just don't have quite enough "range"?

This does sound like some possible eye issues though.
It doesn't take much before things start to go south, believe me. lol

I'm 31 now, and had perfect vision up until about six years ago.
My last eye test was about two years ago, and was already +2 astigmatic in the right eye.
It's not terrible, but I was quite shocked at how quickly it had changed, and is probably worse now.

Let us know how your 2nd Rift kit works out (you lucky swine!). :|

I'll try experimenting with the backlight mod on the Hydis 5.6" panel in the next few days.
I'm sure it could help decrease the switching time, and be applicable to the 7" in the DK1 as well (or any panel with a W-LED backlight).

@Doc Oc - do you do a fair bit of soldering / electronics?
Would anyone with a Hydis panel fancy trying the mod?
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Parallaxis »

Doc Ok wrote:
jf031 wrote:I bet the cause of "more blur" is that it is much easier for the brain to notice blur when the head is moving and the world is responding in kind. It is the same amount of blur caused by the display's pixel response, but more noticeable to the brain. I bet that that's the explanation.
The thing that surprised me, and the reason why I pointed out the blur in the review, is that I have two other low-cost HMDs (eMagin Z800 Visor and Sony HMZ-T1) that have the same 60 Hz display rate, but don't show the same amount of blur. Same thing with the screen door effect; neither the Z800 nor the HMZ-T1 have that. And since those two are crap compared to the Rift in every other respect, I found those things noteworthy.

Bottom line, I'm not ready yet to blame blur entirely on the screen. I'll have to test more.
Enlarging half the screen 6-8 times (bigger FOV) compared to the HMZ-T1 will provide you with a much much larger screen door effect. It pretty obvious that is going to happen if you study how the Rift works.

Michael Abrash also explained how a huge FOV combined with fast rotational tracking will give you motion blur. The short explanation is that when you look around quickly, you eyes will often look at the same place in the virtual world, and not on the screen. This will cause blur when moving your head while looking at a object in the game that isn't even moving. This is much much more pronounced on a HMD with a bigger FOV, than on HMD's with a narrow FOV like the Z800 or T1.

That said - the display in the dev kit has plenty room to improve.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by jf031 »

Doc Ok wrote:The thing that surprised me, and the reason why I pointed out the blur in the review, is that I have two other low-cost HMDs (eMagin Z800 Visor and Sony HMZ-T1) that have the same 60 Hz display rate, but don't show the same amount of blur. Same thing with the screen door effect; neither the Z800 nor the HMZ-T1 have that. And since those two are crap compared to the Rift in every other respect, I found those things noteworthy.

Bottom line, I'm not ready yet to blame blur entirely on the screen. I'll have to test more.
jack612 wrote:Tuscany just seems to have way way more motion blur than anything else I've tried on my Rift. It's not nearly as noticeable in Epic Citadel, TF2, etc.
Hmm... Alright. I could easily be wrong about this. Neil was the first to mention this, and I was very skeptical about it. I'm obviously becoming less skeptical as more independent reports pop up. Will be interesting to see what software issues there might be.

edit: Also, I must mention that I'm technically ignorant about displays, VR, programming, etc.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Doc Ok »

OzOnE2k10 wrote:That's a great review btw, Doc OKulus. ;)
Ha!
OzOnE2k10 wrote:I think the screendoor will always be more pronounced due to the wider FOV in the Rift (and thus the effective "zoom" on the whole screen).
Is the FOV in the eMagin and Sony quite a lot lower than the Rift?
Oh yes. The Z800 has a diagonal FOV of around 45 degrees, and the HMZ-T1 is advertised as 47 degrees. Not even the same ballgame.
OzOnE2k10 wrote:@Doc Oc - do you do a fair bit of soldering / electronics?
I try to stay away from that if I can; I'm primarily a software guy. I'm currently building another LED array for camera-based positional tracking, but that's about the extent of what I do.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by cybereality »

@Dilip: Awesome that you remember my VR920 review. That seems like such a long time ago. You will be happy to hear my website will be coming back online soon, I plan to make it a blog of the various things I'm working on and general ramblings about VR. Stay tuned.

@Doc Ok: I am fairly certain that the blur is a limitation of the panel. For example, I built a demo myself (in OGRE) to test the Rift. On the monitor, even with displays mirrored, there is absolutely no blur at all. It looks totally clear. But on the Rift there is some blurring. So the logical explanation is that its the panel. The only other explanation I could see is that its a perceptual thing due to the hold nature of LCD displays, but this doesn't make sense since other HMDs do not have the issue as badly.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Tirregius »

Could the more pronounced blur in the Tuscany demo be due to the higher brightness values used? Logically brighter pixels would lead to greater persistence.

Edit: as im sure it has been comtemplated, greater magnification of the screen means that each element covers a larger arc of the view, which would proportionally magnify the "trail" caused by persistence. Even a fairly fast screen with minimal persistence would display substantial blur if each element is a large enough portion of the frustum.

Second Edit: I will gladly take the trade-off of some additional blur for the huge FOV Rift affords us. Its not really a fair comparison to low FOV HMDs as it may be an exponential increase in visible persistence with respect to total FOV.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Parallaxis »

I am pretty sure it's related to the rotational tracking. Try disabling that and see the difference. Check the Abrash slides from GDC for explanation on this.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Laserschwert »

Tirregius wrote:Could the more pronounced blur in the Tuscany demo be due to the higher brightness values used?
I remember someone on the forums mentioning that it might help to set the Rift's brightness setting to minimum, to improve on that. I assume the lowest setting should still be bright enough, since you're not getting any outside light into the headset...
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Doc Ok »

OK, mea culpa. The reason I talked at length about motion blur is that my Z800 doesn't show it, and so its presence in the Rift surprised me. What I forgot is that the Z800 uses OLED screens, not LCDs. OLEDs have three orders of magnitude faster response time. D'oh!

So yeah, it appears that's just how the display looks. Now that I know I can get used to it.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Mel »

I just got around to trying out my second Rift, and I have the same out of focus problem with it, too. So the problem is with my eyes, apparently. However, I just fired up HL2 using v1.0.4 of Vireio, and while I can't get the image adjusted such that I can merge the left and right sides in my brain (F2 and F3 do nothing at all), what I can decipher of the image is way more in focus than what I can see in the Tuscany demo. In fact, I'd say it's almost as good as my 5.6" screen. So what does that tell me? I have no idea.
Doc Ok wrote:OK, mea culpa. The reason I talked at length about motion blur is that my Z800 doesn't show it, and so its presence in the Rift surprised me. What I forgot is that the Z800 uses OLED screens, not LCDs. OLEDs have three orders of magnitude faster response time. D'oh!

So yeah, it appears that's just how the display looks. Now that I know I can get used to it.
I don't buy this. If I'm in HL2 (as mentioned above) and I spin around as fast as my mouse hand will allow, I don't see any of the blurring I see in the Tuscany demo. How can the mouse-controlled turning be any different from head turning? It can't be the velocity, because I only have to rotate my head a few degrees in Tuscany, at really slow speed, to get the blur effect.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by jf031 »

Mel wrote:I just got around to trying out my second Rift, and I have the same out of focus problem with it, too. So the problem is with my eyes, apparently. However, I just fired up HL2 using v1.0.4 of Vireio, and while I can't get the image adjusted such that I can merge the left and right sides in my brain (F2 and F3 do nothing at all), what I can decipher of the image is way more in focus than what I can see in the Tuscany demo. In fact, I'd say it's almost as good as my 5.6" screen. So what does that tell me? I have no idea.
Well, the Tuscany demo does use anti-aliasing, which can "blur" the image, sort of. Try forcing that off in your video card driver's control panel.
edit: With HL2, if your eyes are being crossed/{whatever the term for the opposite of crossing your eyes is} in certain ways due to the image mismatch, and only then is it giving you a clear image, it could indeed be your eyes, possibly (I have no idea, though).
Mel wrote:I don't buy this. If I'm in HL2 (as mentioned above) and I spin around as fast as my mouse hand will allow, I don't see any of the blurring I see in the Tuscany demo. How can the mouse-controlled turning be any different from head turning? It can't be the velocity, because I only have to rotate my head a few degrees in Tuscany, at really slow speed, to get the blur effect.
Have you tried Team Fortress 2 yet? It is free and has built-in support for the Oculus Rift if you use -vr when running it. Then you can see if Source engine games give don't give you the same motion blur and out-of-focus issues.

edit: Also, I'm wondering if my "theory" (I'm being generous to myself, here) about head-tracking making the screen's pixel response blur more noticeable is correct. In this case, you are moving the mouse to shift the world around, but not your head.
Last edited by jf031 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:58 pm, edited 7 times in total.
OzOnE2k10
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by OzOnE2k10 »

Mel wrote:So the problem is with my eyes, apparently.
Please don't be offended by my earlier comments, as none was meant. :( ;)
I didn't want to say that there were problems with the focus on the Rift without exploring other possibilities...

It does indeed sound like a software issue if HL2 is OK?

Maybe there's a psycho-optical thing going on when using headtracking which makes the panel's response time more apparent (doubtful, but I'm not an expert).
But, if HL2 looks fine (even when using the mouse), then it proves the screen is capable of decent sharpness / response time.

Is the C++ demo from the SDK any better?
Doc Ok
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Doc Ok »

OzOnE2k10 wrote:
Mel wrote:So the problem is with my eyes, apparently.
Please don't be offended by my earlier comments, as none was meant. :( ;)
I didn't want to say that there were problems with the focus on the Rift without exploring other possibilities...

It does indeed sound like a software issue if HL2 is OK?

Maybe there's a psycho-optical thing going on when using headtracking which makes the panel's response time more apparent (doubtful, but I'm not an expert).
But, if HL2 looks fine (even when using the mouse), then it proves the screen is capable of decent sharpness / response time.

Is the C++ demo from the SDK any better?
We tried the "tiny room" C++ demo, which is as basic as it gets, and the motion blur looked about the same as in the Tuscany demo. I should really shut up now, because I'm merely speculating at this point.
Mel
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Mel »

OzOnE2k10 wrote:
Mel wrote:So the problem is with my eyes, apparently.
Please don't be offended by my earlier comments, as none was meant. :( ;)
I didn't want to say that there were problems with the focus on the Rift without exploring other possibilities...

It does indeed sound like a software issue if HL2 is OK?

Maybe there's a psycho-optical thing going on when using headtracking which makes the panel's response time more apparent (doubtful, but I'm not an expert).
But, if HL2 looks fine (even when using the mouse), then it proves the screen is capable of decent sharpness / response time.

Is the C++ demo from the SDK any better?
Glad you asked about the SDK demo (I assume you mean the Tuscany one), as I just discovered it and it does appear somewhat better to me, focus wise.
jf031
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by jf031 »

Mel wrote:
OzOnE2k10 wrote:
Mel wrote:So the problem is with my eyes, apparently.
Please don't be offended by my earlier comments, as none was meant. :( ;)
I didn't want to say that there were problems with the focus on the Rift without exploring other possibilities...

It does indeed sound like a software issue if HL2 is OK?

Maybe there's a psycho-optical thing going on when using headtracking which makes the panel's response time more apparent (doubtful, but I'm not an expert).
But, if HL2 looks fine (even when using the mouse), then it proves the screen is capable of decent sharpness / response time.

Is the C++ demo from the SDK any better?
Glad you asked about the SDK demo (I assume you mean the Tuscany one), as I just discovered it and it does appear somewhat better to me, focus wise.
OK, I just compared the anti-aliasing of the SDK demo and the Unity version: the unity version uses a much stronger AA method - probably supersampling. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but maybe you are mistaking the stronger AA for lack of focus.

edit: please try disabling AA in your video card's control panel.
edit: I'm probably wayyyy off, but I get these ideas in my head... haha
Last edited by jf031 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mel
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Mel »

jf031 wrote:
Mel wrote:I just got around to trying out my second Rift, and I have the same out of focus problem with it, too. So the problem is with my eyes, apparently. However, I just fired up HL2 using v1.0.4 of Vireio, and while I can't get the image adjusted such that I can merge the left and right sides in my brain (F2 and F3 do nothing at all), what I can decipher of the image is way more in focus than what I can see in the Tuscany demo. In fact, I'd say it's almost as good as my 5.6" screen. So what does that tell me? I have no idea.
Well, the Tuscany demo does use anti-aliasing, which can "blur" the image, sort of. Try forcing that off in your video card driver's control panel.
edit: With HL2, if your eyes are being crossed/{whatever the term for the opposite of crossing your eyes is} in certain ways due to the image mismatch, and only then is it giving you a clear image, it could indeed be your eyes, possibly (I have no idea, though).
Mel wrote:I don't buy this. If I'm in HL2 (as mentioned above) and I spin around as fast as my mouse hand will allow, I don't see any of the blurring I see in the Tuscany demo. How can the mouse-controlled turning be any different from head turning? It can't be the velocity, because I only have to rotate my head a few degrees in Tuscany, at really slow speed, to get the blur effect.
Have you tried Team Fortress 2 yet? It is free and has built-in support for the Oculus Rift if you use -vr when running it. Then you can see if Source engine games give don't give you the same motion blur and out-of-focus issues.

edit: Also, I'm wondering if my "theory" (I'm being generous to myself, here) about head-tracking making the screen's pixel response blur more noticeable is correct. In this case, you are moving the mouse to shift the world around, but not your head.
I just turned off anisotropic filtering and anti-aliasing and the Tuscany demo is waaay better.

Haven't tried TF2 yet. Maybe later tonight.
jf031
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by jf031 »

Mel wrote:
jf031 wrote:
Mel wrote:I just got around to trying out my second Rift, and I have the same out of focus problem with it, too. So the problem is with my eyes, apparently. However, I just fired up HL2 using v1.0.4 of Vireio, and while I can't get the image adjusted such that I can merge the left and right sides in my brain (F2 and F3 do nothing at all), what I can decipher of the image is way more in focus than what I can see in the Tuscany demo. In fact, I'd say it's almost as good as my 5.6" screen. So what does that tell me? I have no idea.
Well, the Tuscany demo does use anti-aliasing, which can "blur" the image, sort of. Try forcing that off in your video card driver's control panel.
edit: With HL2, if your eyes are being crossed/{whatever the term for the opposite of crossing your eyes is} in certain ways due to the image mismatch, and only then is it giving you a clear image, it could indeed be your eyes, possibly (I have no idea, though).
Mel wrote:I don't buy this. If I'm in HL2 (as mentioned above) and I spin around as fast as my mouse hand will allow, I don't see any of the blurring I see in the Tuscany demo. How can the mouse-controlled turning be any different from head turning? It can't be the velocity, because I only have to rotate my head a few degrees in Tuscany, at really slow speed, to get the blur effect.
Have you tried Team Fortress 2 yet? It is free and has built-in support for the Oculus Rift if you use -vr when running it. Then you can see if Source engine games give don't give you the same motion blur and out-of-focus issues.

edit: Also, I'm wondering if my "theory" (I'm being generous to myself, here) about head-tracking making the screen's pixel response blur more noticeable is correct. In this case, you are moving the mouse to shift the world around, but not your head.
I just turned off anisotropic filtering and anti-aliasing and the Tuscany demo is waaay better.

Haven't tried TF2 yet. Maybe later tonight.
Yaaayy, I'm right about something for once! Leave aniso on, though. Trilinear filtering is much blurrier.
lmimmfn
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by lmimmfn »

Mel wrote:
I just turned off anisotropic filtering and anti-aliasing and the Tuscany demo is waaay better.

Haven't tried TF2 yet. Maybe later tonight.
Im a gfx whore, so no AA on such a low rez screen as the rift would be a head wreck for me, did you try downsampling after AA to see if its a better solution to using AA regarding blur/screen refresh?
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