First Impressions From Rift Owners

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3Dmon
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by 3Dmon »

Great day! Ground zero VR for me. First impression trying out the Tuscany demo was amazing! Coolest thing I've seen in a long time (maybe ever). The 3D is spot on and the sense of being there was outstanding! I am using the A cups and the FOV was great, you can see the lens frames themselves giving the slight impression of looking thru binoculars. Not a deal breaker. The resolution and screen door effects weren't as bad as I was anticipating but most definitely will need to be improved (we knew this, it'll happen). Moved on to Epic Citadel for awhile (very cool scale examples) and then started to feel a bit out of sorts so I took a break. I used the Rift for about an hour so I think I did pretty good. Jumping back in later, I'm hooked! :D
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by DaveNagy »

V8Griff, regarding your being-old-makes-us-queasy theory: I'm curious, do you play a lot of first-person games? Do you game on, or at least watch TV on, a big screen?

I ask, because I'm also 50, and I do quite a bit of both of those things. Will I be less sensitive to motion sickness when my Rift gets here? Could it be that certain kinds of video-gaming can act to (partially) acclimatize one to VR?

I can't provide evidence either way, at the moment. I was just wonder'n.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by ften »

DaveNagy wrote:V8Griff, regarding your being-old-makes-us-queasy theory: I'm curious, do you play a lot of first-person games? Do you game on, or at least watch TV on, a big screen?

I ask, because I'm also 50, and I do quite a bit of both of those things. Will I be less sensitive to motion sickness when my Rift gets here? Could it be that certain kinds of video-gaming can act to (partially) acclimatize one to VR?

I can't provide evidence either way, at the moment. I was just wonder'n.
I was kinda of thinking the same thing today, I brought my Rift to work today to demo it for some coworkers and the people who I would consider "hardcore" gamers had no issues with vertigo/motion sickness and the people who rarely play games had more of a sense vertigo/motion sickness, although no one was stated it was that bad.
Also don't plan on actually going to lunch or leaving work on time if you bring your Rift to work. :D
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Alkapwn »

Here's what I've noticed so far, after demo-ing to about 20 people. First off there's two types of users. Those who could potentially get motion sickness and those who just don't, not matter what. Sadly I myself even fell into that first group for the first little bit. The crappy part is you don't really know until you feel it, at which point it's too late. What I've been trying to do is prep people on what to do and what not to do to before they start to help solve the issue before they have it.

Strafing and turning with the mouse or right joystick, depending on what you're using. These are the major factors.

I've been dropping the speed down on each demo to help in the beginning. I've also been trying to tell everyone that jumps in to use their head for turning only, if at all possible. It can be hard for for people who play FPS since they do that subconsciously. Whenever they stop using their heads to turn that's when it hits them. Then it's their stomachs that turn. Strafing has the same effect since you're in essence sliding the world underneath you. We're not used to moving like that in real life so immediately we get thrown off.

Some more "proof" if you will is the flying UDK demo I've been testing out with people. I've been using it with people that have used a Rift before, both fine and sick, and new people that haven't tried it yet. While flying around I tell them to use only the left analog and turn their head or spin around when they want to turn or go up or down in game. It takes some people a bit at first to realize that they can do this effortlessly, but everyone quickly gets the hang of it. Everyone that has tried this demo has been completely fine when they've come out of the demo. Aside from those who are scared of heights, but that's another story. :lol:
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by DaveNagy »

V8Griff wrote:I tried the movement again and while it was reduced I felt a little ill again so I started pointing myself in the direction I wanted to go and like Geekmaster closed my eyes as I moved, I think by then the damage was done to my senses and I had to come out after about 5 or 10 minutes.
I may be misremembering, but I think you may be doing the opposite of what Geekmaster suggested. I believe he recommends that you keep your eyes closed while pointing yourself onto a new heading, and then re-opening your eyes when ready to travel. Fore/aft movement in a straight line is apparently pretty easy to tolerate, even in the absence of middle ear cues. (I believe Joe at Valve said much the same in one of his interviews.)

I wonder if this "immunity" to fore/aft-induced nausea is due to our familiarity with motor vehicles? We spend a lot of time under no acceleration, with the world zipping past us, after all. Or, perhaps it's due to the fact that we tilt (pitch) our heads up and down almost constantly to look at stuff. Since this acts to make the "acceleration" vector we constantly feel from gravity "point" forwards or back, maybe our brain has evolved less sensitivity on that axis... (Well, not sensitivity exactly. Humans have remarkable fore/aft balance, after all. But our brains do not appear to freak out too much if they experience fore/aft "acceleration" in the absence of visible acceleration. Or as in the case of VR, when we see the motion with no accompanying sensation of acceleration.)

Which leads me to wonder if we might be able fool our inner ear with fake acceleration cues, by tilting our heads a bit as we initiate (virtual) motion. Tilt the head back a bit to simulate forward acceleration. Cock your head to the side a bit as you begin to strafe to that same side, etc. Who knows, that might make you instantly sick, but feel free to experiment! Similarly, you could make a point of always looking left as you (joystick/mouse) turned left, to see if that "sells" the rotation to your brain a bit better.

Whew, that post was a lot longer than I had planned.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by geekmaster »

I close my eyes (long blink) while turning a little. Then repeat until at new heading. A sudden change of scenery is less jarring than the inner ears not sensing the visible rotation. Changes of translational position are not sensed by the inner ear canals, so only rotation about the head is particularly problematic for most people.

I have read that while standing you constantly move a little forward and back, rocking heal to toe, maintaining forward balance. And you shift your weight between feet to maintain side-to-side balance. And your head bobs up and down a little while breathing. All these motions are almost imperceptible, and yet they change your viewpoint on all three linear axes (and the differential pressure is detected by the very sensitive nerves in the soles of your feet). Not having your vision change to match can ALSO cause motion sickness, according to the research. The better VR gets, the more critical it is to match what is expected, perhaps to sub-millimeter accuracy.

Perhaps you could use a pressure-sensitive insole to adjust the Rift viewpoint a little, instead of relying on very accurate positional feedback. Our body uses foot pressure cues, so our VR can too...
Last edited by geekmaster on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by marbas »

3Dmon wrote:Great day! Ground zero VR for me. First impression trying out the Tuscany demo was amazing! Coolest thing I've seen in a long time (maybe ever). The 3D is spot on and the sense of being there was outstanding! I am using the A cups and the FOV was great, you can see the lens frames themselves giving the slight impression of looking thru binoculars. Not a deal breaker. The resolution and screen door effects weren't as bad as I was anticipating but most definitely will need to be improved (we knew this, it'll happen). Moved on to Epic Citadel for awhile (very cool scale examples) and then started to feel a bit out of sorts so I took a break. I used the Rift for about an hour so I think I did pretty good. Jumping back in later, I'm hooked! :D
Very cool! Thanks for your feedback 3Dmon.

The hardest part at this stage waiting for the devkit, is reading all those negative reactions to the screen-door and such. Most of us have waited 1/2 a lifetime for a convincing VR experience. And for almost a year now the waiting has been more intense than ever before. Reading positive feedback like yours makes the waiting more pleasant. Most importantly, VR tech is on the right track and is going to become much better in the near future.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by V8Griff »

DaveNagy wrote:V8Griff, regarding your being-old-makes-us-queasy theory: I'm curious, do you play a lot of first-person games? Do you game on, or at least watch TV on, a big screen?

I ask, because I'm also 50, and I do quite a bit of both of those things. Will I be less sensitive to motion sickness when my Rift gets here? Could it be that certain kinds of video-gaming can act to (partially) acclimatize one to VR?

I can't provide evidence either way, at the moment. I was just wonder'n.
I do play quite a bit of Unreal on a 26" screen that I've had for over 6 years and our TV has a 50" screen so I'm pretty much into the motion thing, but I take your point. As I mentioned the motion sickness did diminish the more I used it but as I said in my second posting I now have a headcold and I think that has something to do with it now.
DaveNagy wrote:
V8Griff wrote:I tried the movement again and while it was reduced I felt a little ill again so I started pointing myself in the direction I wanted to go and like Geekmaster closed my eyes as I moved, I think by then the damage was done to my senses and I had to come out after about 5 or 10 minutes.
I may be misremembering, but I think you may be doing the opposite of what Geekmaster suggested. I believe he recommends that you keep your eyes closed while pointing yourself onto a new heading, and then re-opening your eyes when ready to travel. Fore/aft movement in a straight line is apparently pretty easy to tolerate, even in the absence of middle ear cues. (I believe Joe at Valve said much the same in one of his interviews.)

I wonder if this "immunity" to fore/aft-induced nausea is due to our familiarity with motor vehicles? We spend a lot of time under no acceleration, with the world zipping past us, after all. Or, perhaps it's due to the fact that we tilt (pitch) our heads up and down almost constantly to look at stuff. Since this acts to make the "acceleration" vector we constantly feel from gravity "point" forwards or back, maybe our brain has evolved less sensitivity on that axis... (Well, not sensitivity exactly. Humans have remarkable fore/aft balance, after all. But our brains do not appear to freak out too much if they experience fore/aft "acceleration" in the absence of visible acceleration. Or as in the case of VR, when we see the motion with no accompanying sensation of acceleration.)

Which leads me to wonder if we might be able fool our inner ear with fake acceleration cues, by tilting our heads a bit as we initiate (virtual) motion. Tilt the head back a bit to simulate forward acceleration. Cock your head to the side a bit as you begin to strafe to that same side, etc. Who knows, that might make you instantly sick, but feel free to experiment! Similarly, you could make a point of always looking left as you (joystick/mouse) turned left, to see if that "sells" the rotation to your brain a bit better.

Whew, that post was a lot longer than I had planned.
Obviously Geekmaster has posted now and I did remember his suggestion about movement incorrectly. Interestingly for me standing still and moving my head around didn't effect me at all it was the movement through the environment that affected me. It was the visual 'on rushing environment' that made me feel queasy but it was diminishing with use until my cold started to manifest itself so obviously the inner ear is being influenced both visually potentially by lack of peripheral movement.

I do find it interesting that it's different motions affecting people in different ways though.

I can't test any of these theories at the moment as I've left my Rift with the guys at White Paper Games so they can work on integrating the Rift into Ether-One, obviously it's a bit frustrating after waiting so long but it is a development kit after all and their need is greater than mine at the moment as they have more pressing development to do.

I have another Rift coming along with a latency checker so hopefully that's not far off.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by geekmaster »

V8Griff wrote:Obviously Geekmaster has posted now and I did remember his suggestion about movement incorrectly. Interestingly for me standing still and moving my head around didn't effect me at all it was the movement through the environment that affected me. It was the visual 'on rushing environment' that made me feel queasy but it was diminishing with use until my cold started to manifest itself so obviously the inner ear is being influenced both visually potentially by lack of peripheral movement.
Looking around is not a problem for me, although it would probably be even better with millimeter-accurate head tracking instead of just faking it with neck modelling. Forcing a little positional head movement when you bend your neck (OculusVR neck modelling) is a GREAT thing to have when positional tracking is lacking, so I commend Oculus on that addition.

My biggest problem is when rotating my body using a controller, which is the only time I close my eyes for a "long blink" (still only a fraction of a second). Again, that may be something I will get used to over time, and perhaps age is an issue as well. And I get VERY LITTLE sleep, so that could be an issue too. I am sure diet/rest/exercise/emotional response all affect VR motion sickness. Perhaps some pleasant background music and/or naturally calming sound effects could help:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdIJ2x3nxzQ[/youtube]

Or maybe some nice trance dance music to bring out that youthful spirit:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prX3--rtqXk[/youtube]

I clicked BOTH of the above videos, and they are playing together. How can you even NOTICE any queasiness with that playing in hte backgroun? Now THAT mix is Rift-compatible, IMHO! But you need some animated VR content to go with that soundscape, so I think something like this animated cubism video would be GREAT to explore in stereoscopic 3D while wearing listening to the above mix:

[youtube-hd]www.youtube.com/watch?&v=Mf6JCpJjdiY[/youtube-hd]

But who knows for sure until they try it themselves? With all the abundantly variable personal taste that abounds, perhaps what turns my crank would be sickening to others...
:lol:
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Laserschwert »

Cymatic wrote:SBS movies in the virtual theatre might be a little more complex, since you are able to move your head.
This should actually not be a problem at all, since head movement and the 3D effect are completely separate things.

We already managed to simulate being in a normal cinema - head tracking and all. The only difference between a real-world cinema and a real-world 3D cinema is the fact that the two images for the 3D effect get projected on top of each other, while your 3D glasses make sure, each eye only gets one of the images. So in the virtual cinema we have a video file used as a texture on the screen... which means in the 3D cinema you have to use *two* videos as your screen texture, but make sure that the left eye sees only one of the textures, while the right eye sees only the other texture. Sure, turning your head away from the screen (or moving around in the theater) will make the 3D effect looks strange, but just as much, as it would in a real-world 3D cinema, since we're simply simulating that.

The advantage of the Rift-3D-cinema though will be that there'll be no ghosting between the two images, as it might happen with shutter glasses or polarized glasses. Of course you could simulate these shortcoming in the virtual cinema as well ;)
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by OzOnE2k10 »

Laserschwert wrote:which means in the 3D cinema you have to use *two* videos as your screen texture, but make sure that the left eye sees only one of the textures, while the right eye sees only the other texture.
Yeah, that's what I meant. lol

Which brings up an interesting question - does the Rift SDK have support for sending separate images to each eye, or would it be a bit of a hack?
I have the source here, but I've yet to figure out how it draws the image for each eye.
I'm assuming it renders each image to a buffer first, then sends both to the screen?

As you say, you'd need to use two textures, so maybe you just need a shader or something which separates HSBS images into two separate ones (and doubles the width).
(I use a Dubois type shader with DVB Viewer to test vids on my 2D monitor for example. I also use a "SBS to 2D" shader, which only shows the left image.)

If only one side of the Rift saw each texture, this would work exactly like a 3D cinema. Very excited to see that working. :o

btw, watched a bit of Titanic 3D last night. Yes, everyone's probably seen it at least 15 times already, but the 3D conversion is amazing.
It basically looks like it was shot in 3D for the most part. Looks like Mr Cameron has cracked the conversion thing too.

Oh, and Wreck It Ralph is a great movie. 3D as well, naturally. :)
Can't wait to watch them in the virtual cinema with the Rift.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Lookforyourhands »

The wait is killing me.. going on 6 months I couldn't take it anymore and I just broke down and bought a Rift Dev. Kit off Ebay.. LOL

I can handle a week or two, but initially backed Oculus in Sept. 2012 so who know's when I'll be receiving that one.

I have 3 gaming pc's, and a Sony HmZ-T1 so what's the harm in having 3 HMD's? :D

Can't freaking wait to try out the Rift tho, got my hydra ready and 2 wiimote+ps navigator+wii zapper gaming guns.

I have 2 weeks off soon so I'm hoping to dedicate lots of that time to Rifting... :D
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by densohax »

Guys! Just tried a Oculus Rift at work!

I was standing when trying it.

First thing that I noticed, the screen door effect is much more present than I thought and yeah the resolution is a bit low (I thought I wouldn't worry much about those, but really it did affect me at first).

HOWEVER, keep the HMD on for like 5 minutes and these issues completely disappear and you start to be part of the environment!
Someone touch the forward key on the keyboard while I was immersed and surprisingly I lost my balance, that's when I realised that I was indeed part of the machine!
At this moment it kicked really in and I was in another world.. I didn't explore much more than 5 to 10 minutes because there was a line up behind me, but really I can only say the same exact thing that others have said before me. There are problems but it's day 0 of VR.

I guess you need to try it to understand! .. If the resolution was extremely high, I wouldn't be able to say if I was in reality or not.
I also felt a bit dizzy after the experience, like after a ride at the amusement park.. Really not bad.

Tuscany gave the best immersion effect, TF2 was really not impressive at all, but it may be that nothing was adjusted for me..

Anyways, in the end, I can't wait to get my own rift and plug myself in for hours at a time.. Because with time comes greater immersion!
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by 3DByte »

densohax wrote:Tuscany gave the best immersion effect, TF2 was really not impressive at all, but it may be that nothing was adjusted for me..
Can you explain what didn´t convince you with TF2 (FOV, 3D effect, scale of World, gameplay...)?
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by densohax »

3DByte wrote:
densohax wrote:Tuscany gave the best immersion effect, TF2 was really not impressive at all, but it may be that nothing was adjusted for me..
Can you explain what didn´t convince you with TF2 (FOV, 3D effect, scale of World, gameplay...)?
We only tried the first input mode and I think this one disconnect you from the environment, you feel like playing in front of a screen.
I also just tried VRQuake3 and the same thing happened.. I believe that not having perfect control, perfect perspective remove the sensation of immersion.. In VRQ3 I was jumping all around and didn't felt anything. It was like playing in front of the screen, so there's something wrong with the perspective, rift settings and input.

I believe it's simply that we didn't have time to calibrate the rift for everyone!

Just now trying back the rift I couldn't see the screendoor pattern. So I think they adjusted the rift and now the screendoor is not even visible! It's strange actually, because the screendoor was awfully visible the first time, but now it's awesomly good, but there's more blurryness I would say. I guess we didn't find the sweept spot yet. There are quite a lot that needs to be perfect to feel immersed, and they got it perfectly right in Tuscany demo.

I don't feel sick at all now, so it's a good thing.. And in quake the most impressive stuff was looking at the moving skies and trying to reach objects above my head. The scale isn't right tho and there are issues with the perspective matrix and strangely the head tracking is reversed sometimes and sometimes it's ok ..

But I see much more potential in VRQuake3 now, I think I can get it to a point where you feel much more immersed, but I need to do a lot of tweaking, which won't happen before I get the rift myself.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Frito »

densohax wrote:
3DByte wrote: Just now trying back the rift I couldn't see the screendoor pattern. So I think they adjusted the rift and now the screendoor is not even visible! It's strange actually, because the screendoor was awfully visible the first time, but now it's awesomly good, but there's more blurryness I would say. I guess we didn't find the sweept spot yet. There are quite a lot that needs to be perfect to feel immersed, and they got it perfectly right in Tuscany demo.
Hi Denso, could you let us know what they adjusted? The ¨i cant even see it now its adjusted¨ sounds great :mrgreen:


PD: sent u a pm with this by mistake
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Alkapwn »

If you get a chance to play TF2 again, see if they can set the aiming setting to 6. This is the setting that I think will work best for standing TF2 play. Hard to explain why, but it just feels right.

in console:
vr_moveaim_mode 6
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by densohax »

Frito wrote:
densohax wrote:
3DByte wrote: Just now trying back the rift I couldn't see the screendoor pattern. So I think they adjusted the rift and now the screendoor is not even visible! It's strange actually, because the screendoor was awfully visible the first time, but now it's awesomly good, but there's more blurryness I would say. I guess we didn't find the sweept spot yet. There are quite a lot that needs to be perfect to feel immersed, and they got it perfectly right in Tuscany demo.
Hi Denso, could you let us know what they adjusted? The ¨i cant even see it now its adjusted¨ sounds great :mrgreen:


PD: sent u a pm with this by mistake

I'm not sure exactly what they changed apart the screen distance from your eye..
In quake, maybe I set a different screen resolution and the device accepts it?

But definitively, a BIG difference in screendoor, no screendoor AT ALL in Q3 and BIG Black lines between pixels in tuscany..
I can't say since I had the rift for a total of 20 minutes in 2 sessions.

Also, I'm not the only one that saw big black lines between pixels, so it's not me or placebo..
I know that some people don't see exactly the same way apparently, because some of them saw the screen as blurry, I thought it was very sharp personally.
The blurriness people were complaning about, I honestly don't see it unless I move my head too fast, and you probably won't move your head that fast very often anyway.

The best thing so far is Tuscany even with the black lines, it's incredibly immersive!
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by densohax »

Alkapwn wrote:If you get a chance to play TF2 again, see if they can set the aiming setting to 6. This is the setting that I think will work best for standing TF2 play. Hard to explain why, but it just feels right.

in console:
vr_moveaim_mode 6
I probably will not have more time with the rift for a while.. But I'm pretty sure TF2 is alright and that our problem was that we didn't calibrate much..
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Mystify »

it sounds to me like the focus was (probably slightly) worse, which blurred the screen door away.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by densohax »

Mystify wrote:it sounds to me like the focus was (probably slightly) worse, which blurred the screen door away.
I'm not sure, because I could clearly see each pixels and I could see the outlines of polygons in quake.
You could be right tho, maybe I was too excited to look at it correctly..
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by MrGreen »

Alkapwn wrote:If you get a chance to play TF2 again, see if they can set the aiming setting to 6. This is the setting that I think will work best for standing TF2 play. Hard to explain why, but it just feels right.

in console:
vr_moveaim_mode 6
Do you play with a 360 controller or with the Hydra?
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by densohax »

MrGreen wrote:
Alkapwn wrote:If you get a chance to play TF2 again, see if they can set the aiming setting to 6. This is the setting that I think will work best for standing TF2 play. Hard to explain why, but it just feels right.

in console:
vr_moveaim_mode 6
Do you play with a 360 controller or with the Hydra?
Keyboard, it was a quick test and clearly not ideal controller / input or configuration.

We played tuscany standing up (Xbox controller this time), and it was clearly the best way to be immersed!
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by BOLL »

geekmaster wrote:I clicked BOTH of the above videos, and they are playing together. How can you even NOTICE any queasiness with that playing in hte backgroun? Now THAT mix is Rift-compatible, IMHO!
I clicked all three, now my head is spinning, thanks for that! :D Hahaha, very nice.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Alkapwn »

densohax wrote:
MrGreen wrote:
Alkapwn wrote:If you get a chance to play TF2 again, see if they can set the aiming setting to 6. This is the setting that I think will work best for standing TF2 play. Hard to explain why, but it just feels right.

in console:
vr_moveaim_mode 6
Do you play with a 360 controller or with the Hydra?
Keyboard, it was a quick test and clearly not ideal controller / input or configuration.

We played tuscany standing up (Xbox controller this time), and it was clearly the best way to be immersed!
Standing with a 360 controller (Hyrda being ordered). I have found that this is the most immersive way to play all demos except for maybe Hawken, when that comes out. I'm working on making a setup that will allow full standing 360 spinning without cable tangles. More to come soon.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by MrGreen »

Alkapwn wrote: Standing with a 360 controller (Hyrda being ordered). I have found that this is the most immersive way to play all demos except for maybe Hawken, when that comes out. I'm working on making a setup that will allow full standing 360 spinning without cable tangles. More to come soon.
This is the deam! I'll be very interested to know more.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by MSat »

I'm curious if anyone experienced different levels of queasiness moving around in the Oculus Tuscany demo between having pre-warp enabled and disabled.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by 3dvison »

MrGreen wrote:
Alkapwn wrote: Standing with a 360 controller (Hyrda being ordered). I have found that this is the most immersive way to play all demos except for maybe Hawken, when that comes out. I'm working on making a setup that will allow full standing 360 spinning without cable tangles. More to come soon.
This is the deam! I'll be very interested to know more.
+1 add me ....I also liked standing with the 360 controller . Can't wait to hear/see what Alkapwn comes up with.
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mattyeatsmatts
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by mattyeatsmatts »

Alkapwn wrote:
Standing with a 360 controller (Hyrda being ordered). I have found that this is the most immersive way to play all demos except for maybe Hawken, when that comes out. I'm working on making a setup that will allow full standing 360 spinning without cable tangles. More to come soon.
use a laptop and wear a backpack and put the laptop and rift box in it, the rift can be powered by USB can't it?
Last edited by mattyeatsmatts on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Alkapwn »

Not gonna be anything too fancy that hasn't already been thought of I'm sure. I started a thread on here about slip rings a while back.

User will wear a belt of sorts with the control box strapped to it. I'm gonna use a slip ring for the HDMI and USB. After some practice to make sure I've done the wiring right, I'll attach the slip ring to a mic stand that has a boom and have that about like 2ft above the player. Will probably have to add some sort of boundary notification on the ground so that people don't walk too far and pull the mic stand down. Maybe like a thin rope ring under the boom so that if a player inadvertently moves around, they'll feel the rope under their feet and know they've reached the edge.

Those are my thoughts so far. Will have to see if they work outside of just my theories, but would welcome any ideas anyone else has. Standing up and physically turning around is just so much more immersive. And then you couple that with the Virtuix Omni and we're well on our way.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpYJXrDHOBk[/youtube]
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by densohax »

Alkapwn wrote:
User will wear a belt of sorts with the control box strapped to it. I'm gonna use a slip ring for the HDMI and USB.

Hmm slip rings are able to convey high frequency signals without noise!?
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by geekmaster »

densohax wrote:
Alkapwn wrote:User will wear a belt of sorts with the control box strapped to it. I'm gonna use a slip ring for the HDMI and USB.
Hmm slip rings are able to convey high frequency signals without noise!?
You can get these 5GHz 1080p video transmitter and receivers for about $20 on amazon and ebay, even though LG lists them for $350:
http://www.lg.com/us/tv-accessories/lg- ... -media-kit

They have been hacked to not need an LG TV, so they could be used with a Rift:
https://plus.google.com/101948760925084 ... tdqMZqCzEA

The receiver is small and only needs battery power connected to it. I use one on my TV about 20 feet away through a wall and furniture and it still shows a solid signal.

The transmitter is big, but mostly empty, and can be controlled with its serial port (or wirelessly from the receiver).

Using these could save the extra slip ring wires, and potential loss of signal.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by MrGreen »

So are you planning on going wireless with your Rift GM?
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Alkapwn »

Interesting. Then I guess the only thing left to figure out is if there's a way to get wireless USB transmission. And also if that's gonna cause extra latency in the head tracking. Ideally I'd bypass the slip ring all together if possible. I didn't know there was such a cheap solution for wireless HDMI.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by geekmaster »

MrGreen wrote:So are you planning on going wireless with your Rift GM?
Yes. I need a way to get tracker data back with a minimum of local fuss. Perhaps a RasPi (or my more-capable Nexus 7) to proxy it from USB to bluetooth or something. Perhaps custom firmware in the Rift head tracker would make the unused GPIO pins on those breakout pads (visible in Rift teardown pics) useful for a standalone solution (serial RF instead of USB for tracker data).

I am also looking at making a total standalone Rift Pi solution (Rift and Raspberry Pi). I have a collection of "old school" code I have been playing with that uses long neglected speedup techniques, and it will be interesting to see just how immersive you can make that combination.

We shall see. What I lack is enough time...

The nice thing about the LG wireless is that it is 1080p uncompressed video, and for me, I get a LOT more range than is specified for it. You could use FPV tricks to get more range (high gain directional tracking antenna that always points at you), and perhaps a better omni receiving antenna too. Beware that FCC rules do not allow it to be operated outdoor, or to change antennas (just like the rules for wifi routers)...
:mrgreen:

Another thing cool about the LG transmitter is it has all kinds of inputs (multiple HDMI, analog, component, RGB, etc.). The inputs can be selected by pushing front panel buttons on the TX, or over a serial port on the TX, or from the receiver unit. When the receiver is plugged into my LG TV, the input select screen shows a bunch more available inputs (with little wireless icons in their corners). What is special about that is that the Receiver can TRANSMIT back to the transmitter (so they are both actually an asymmetrical TRANSCEIVER pair). I wonder if the return channel can support tracker data? Perhaps not...

I recently got four of them from Amazon for $8 each, plus shipping. And I have that fifth one stuck on the back of the LG passive 3D TV (which hardly ever even gets powered on).
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by OzOnE2k10 »

I was gonna mention that those HDMI transmitters have very little latency, so should be perfect for this.

The problem is, they're still full price in the UK.
The cheaper ones aren't too bad, but still quite an expensive luxury for the Rift.

(btw, if you're in the US, grab those LG wireless things from Amazon ASAP!! Ridiculously cheap, and only a few left!).

I'm sure there's a way to transmit the tracker data.
I personally wouldn't try sending the USB itself, unless you can also find some reasonably cheap transceivers?

The raw tracker data is probably a manageable bitrate of around 1MHz per sensor.
(well, the magnetometer can go up to 8MHz on SPI, and the MEMS up to a crazy 20MHz, but it's unlikely it uses that speed).

You should be able to transmit that data via Bluetooth or similar radio module.
An Arduino should be enough to handle this, especially a fast ARM board (still only around $20).

hmmm, I wonder how fast the link is between the LG receiver and TX?

btw, got my Hydra yesterday.
Been too busy with other projects to hook it up, but I might do some evil experiments on it soon. :twisted:
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by geekmaster »

OzOnE2k10 wrote:I was gonna mention that those HDMI transmitters have very little latency, so should be perfect for this.

The problem is, they're still full price in the UK.
The cheaper ones aren't too bad, but still quite an expensive luxury for the Rift.

(btw, if you're in the US, grab those LG wireless things from Amazon ASAP!! Ridiculously cheap, and only a few left!).
You may be able to convince one of the Amazon Marketplace sellers to ship internationally. I did that for some other things from Amazon. You can also find them cheap from eBay stores too.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by MrGreen »

I almost started a new thread for this video. Priceless.

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAC5SeNH8jw[/youtube-hd]

Edit: Embeded
Last edited by MrGreen on Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by spire8989 »

MrGreen wrote:I almost started a new thread for this video. Priceless.

http://youtu.be/pAC5SeNH8jw
Saw this on Reddit as well, freaking adorable xD
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Re: First Impressions From Rift Owners

Post by Lookforyourhands »

MrGreen wrote:I almost started a new thread for this video. Priceless.

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAC5SeNH8jw[/youtube-hd]

Edit: Embeded

WoW. So amazing. The fact that the experience is so seamless and translates so naturally is very exciting.

VR IS TRULY HERE!!!!! :woot :woot :woot
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