Speculation on secret "Key Features"

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benz145
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Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by benz145 »

As you all know, Palmer has been teasing that they are trying to cram as much into the developer kits as possible before sending them out the door. Quite unambiguously he has told us that they are aiming for a slightly higher than 90 degree FoV which would be an improvement over what was originally announced. Also quite unambiguously, he has said that the resolution on the dev kits will not be changed from what was announced.

In the latest update to the Kickstarter campaign there's more teasing:
"We’re putting the finishing touches on the tooling for the first version of developer kits now, trying to squeeze in a few key features without delaying, but time is against us. We want to nail down every last detail before announcing anything."
"We can’t show any of the SLAs quite yet (they’d give away a few secrets)..."
"Thanks for all your support and patience. We’ll let everyone know as soon as more of our details (and surprises) are fully-confirmed. Stay tuned!"
[my emphasis]

So we know that we're likely to get a slightly higher FoV, but the resolution is unlikely to be changed. What other secret "key features" do you think they're working on?
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by alekki »

I guess positional tracking is too much to hope for.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by Nogard »

Exterior camera, i think lasers would be great... not sure what for but you know, lasers.

Edit:

I was thinking about it some more and i think the new feature will be adjustable focus, because given that it is my firmly held opinion that people who required glasses for normal vision are genetically inferior to me and should be euthanize to strengthen humanity genome. I feel that Oculus might believe that you guys should be accommodated for as well as me with my glorious god like vision. Though they have stated that they were not planning it, going as far to suggest you hot-glue glasses to the rift, it is my believe however that they would be marginalizing a large proportion of there intended target audience, so it is my guess that they now plan on adding that.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by Owen »

While we are telling Santa what we most want for Christmas:

Hall effect sensor compatible with the Razer Hydra. The adjacent reality guy did say he wanted to do it and thought it might not be too hard.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by HarleyMills »

I really hope it's a camera. I don't even care if it isn't 3d. I would just like to be able to see what is happening in the real world without taking off the hmd. You could have a little screen pop up over your game that shows you whats going on around you. I guess a webcam could be used for that purpose as well.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by rmcclelland »

These secrets are really tantalizing. What could be given away by the housing design?

Not resolution, not tracking. Integral headphones? Probably not.

Other than the addition of a camera, I can't really think of anything. I guess a camera could allow two things (1) pass through video to prevent RL blindness (2) position tracking if they can get tracking by Optical Flow figured out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_flow

I guess it could also be optical adjustment such as IPD adjustment and focus for people that wear glasses, which is less exciting to me.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by jf031 »

I'm going to guess based on what the devkit Rift is for: development. Based on that, comfort and ease of use stuff is secondary, at best.

Thus, IPD and focus adjustments wouldn't be key features (assuming the primary focus is development). Nor would a pass-through camera, which has not, AFAIK, been publicly mentioned as a possible addition to the commercial Rift.

They are probably working on a position tracking solution, because that will be in the commercial Rift (it's been mentioned as a goal and, well, it absolutely has to for VR to have a chance commercially), and is a very important feature for developers to have access to before the real Rift goes live.

I obviously could be very wrong.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by Okta »

Wireless. That is all i can say right now.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by Bishop51 »

I think the majority are praying for a positional tracking solution. That's probably too much to hope for but my studio started actively developing a RIFT specific game recently and we can already see what a huge difference that would make for the experience. Wider FOV is pretty exciting as well to be honest even with a hampered resolution!

But hey; wireless is good news too if that's where the rumour mill takes us :) Not that wireless is a must-have feature for development which makes me wonder. We can live with a few wires in the development ecosystem but if positional tracking is becoming a reality then it makes sense to push in wireless.

That's exciting stuff right there! Don't worry though Palmer, we'll be happy with whatever extras are coming our way. Go get em! :)
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by Scog »

Well, one that I almost expect to see is a 120hz display/custom driver board.

That, and with the rumoured specs of the tracker I think it could possibly support fairly serviceable positional tracking with the addition of even a modest sensor for drift correction. This could well take the form of stereo cameras, and this may be the best solution available at this time, but I think spatial sensing is moving more in the direction of light field technology, with the leap motion device being the leading contender for integration into the rift.

I would be surprised to see this in the dev kit, but not in the consumer model. I understand the hardware itself is remarkably simple and inexpensive, and the leap in functionality it would enable would be nothing short of remarkable. If there is one thing that I hope for most with the rift it is that they form a partnership with this company as soon as possible.
Light field imaging is a technology I predict to explode in the coming years, allowing cheap, thin, multiplexed sensors that can be integrated into the surface of any device. Make no mistake the future is coming and will be here sooner than you may think.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by EdZ »

Looking at the prototype's completely flat front, I'm not sure how people are thinking a camera (let alone two!) could be crammed in there.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by marbas »

My fingers are crossed for positional tracking.

If it can be made compatible with the hydra, that would be grand.

Either way, Im going to add positional tracking to my devkit..one way or the other ;)
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by Scog »

EdZ wrote:Looking at the prototype's completely flat front, I'm not sure how people are thinking a camera (let alone two!) could be crammed in there.
You could say the same thing about any smart phone, modern parts don't need much space. Your are probably right though, I think it is more likely that this feature will have to wait for the consumer model.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by jaybug »

EdZ wrote:Looking at the prototype's completely flat front, I'm not sure how people are thinking a camera (let alone two!) could be crammed in there.
Early prototype.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by 3dvison »

jaybug wrote:
EdZ wrote:Looking at the prototype's completely flat front, I'm not sure how people are thinking a camera (let alone two!) could be crammed in there.
Early prototype.
Thats right jaybug, I caught that also. I don't think it's going to look like that.

In fact, I think we are all getting an apple with our RIFT Dev.Kit..LOL
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by marbas »

3dvison wrote: In fact, I think we are all getting an apple with our RIFT Dev.Kit..LOL
:lol:
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by benz145 »

Scog wrote:Well, one that I almost expect to see is a 120hz display/custom driver board.

That, and with the rumoured specs of the tracker I think it could possibly support fairly serviceable positional tracking with the addition of even a modest sensor for drift correction. This could well take the form of stereo cameras, and this may be the best solution available at this time, but I think spatial sensing is moving more in the direction of light field technology, with the leap motion device being the leading contender for integration into the rift.

I would be surprised to see this in the dev kit, but not in the consumer model. I understand the hardware itself is remarkably simple and inexpensive, and the leap in functionality it would enable would be nothing short of remarkable. If there is one thing that I hope for most with the rift it is that they form a partnership with this company as soon as possible.
Light field imaging is a technology I predict to explode in the coming years, allowing cheap, thin, multiplexed sensors that can be integrated into the surface of any device. Make no mistake the future is coming and will be here sooner than you may think.
Palmer did mention a few weeks ago that he tried out the Leap, though it wasn't clear if he was getting a demo from the company directly.

It would be interesting if a Leap-like device was mounted on the front of the Rift facing outward. Then if you looked down at your hands it could detect them in front of you and let you interact with your own hands in a game.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by mahler »

benz145 wrote:It would be interesting if a Leap-like device was mounted on the front of the Rift facing outward.
A "Leap-like" device?
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by MSat »

Focus adjustments. This may not seem as cool as 20-D motion tracking and smell-o-vision, but is a big deal for all the people out there that need corrective lenses and don't want to stick contacts on their eyeballs. If so, then I'm guessing a system that moves the display rather than the optics (would that work?) so that the distance between the eye and the optics is maintained to not affect FOV. This might require the SDK to compensate for the slight changes in specification though.

Camera(s) could also be a nice (and cheap) addition considering the growing interest in AR. There should be plenty of bandwidth available over USB for the "9-DOF" tracker and a camera or two.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by MSat »

mahler wrote:
benz145 wrote:It would be interesting if a Leap-like device was mounted on the front of the Rift facing outward.
A "Leap-like" device?
I believe he's referring to the Leap Motion tracker.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by mahler »

MSat wrote:I believe he's referring to the Leap Motion tracker.
Ah ok, it seemed like he was referring to a tracker only similar to the Leap :)
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by MSat »

mahler wrote:
MSat wrote:I believe he's referring to the Leap Motion tracker.
Ah ok, it seemed like he was referring to a tracker only similar to the Leap :)

You're probably correct, as I don't believe he was implying just taping one to the front, but perhaps something a bit more customized. I thought you didn't know he was referring to the Leap Motion.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by maboo63 »

About the Focus adjustments:

I'm shortsighted - do I really need my glasses or lenses? I mean, the rift is right in front of my eyes, heck, right in front of my pupils - so there shouldn't be a problem right?
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by Fredz »

MSat wrote:If so, then I'm guessing a system that moves the display rather than the optics (would that work?) so that the distance between the eye and the optics is maintained to not affect FOV. This might require the SDK to compensate for the slight changes in specification though.
This would work only for people who need the same correction for both eyes I guess.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by MSat »

Fredz wrote:
MSat wrote:If so, then I'm guessing a system that moves the display rather than the optics (would that work?) so that the distance between the eye and the optics is maintained to not affect FOV. This might require the SDK to compensate for the slight changes in specification though.
This would work only for people who need the same correction for both eyes I guess.

Good point. How common is it for people who need corrective lenses to have significant differences in sight between each eye? Binoculars generally allow for slight adjustments for one of the sights - does that sound like a reasonable option for an HMD to account for the difference in each eye?
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by WiredEarp »

Ah ok, it seemed like he was referring to a tracker only similar to the Leap
Like the Kinect?
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by MSat »

WiredEarp wrote:
Ah ok, it seemed like he was referring to a tracker only similar to the Leap
Like the Kinect?

"Leap-like" would probably indicate something using the same technology as the Motion, without it actually being the Leap Motion as we know it. I don't think anyone outside of Leap knows how the Motion works, but from what I gather is that the principal is significantly different from the Kinect.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by Nogard »

MSat wrote:
WiredEarp wrote:
Ah ok, it seemed like he was referring to a tracker only similar to the Leap
Like the Kinect?

"Leap-like" would probably indicate something using the same technology as the Motion, without it actually being the Leap Motion as we know it. I don't think anyone outside of Leap knows how the Motion works, but from what I gather is that the principal is significantly different from the Kinect.
I think its some kind of ultrasound, given that there is no camera slot or hand held device.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by mahler »

MSat wrote:...I don't think anyone outside of Leap knows how the Motion works, ..
My point exactly
However recently some pictures have been released
Image
Source: http://www.monleap.fr/537-kit-developpe ... on-photos/

Developer kits from Leap Motion were sent out Nov 10th: https://twitter.com/LeapMotion/status/2 ... 4131850240
So keep an eye on the reactions: https://twitter.com/search?q=%23leapmotion

/sorry for taking the thread off topic
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by MSat »

Great find, mahler! I was just searching google images, but didn't come across that one! I did find an article from Engadget that stated it used cameras and IR leds. According to that article, and Leap's own site, they are looking to incorporate their technology into commercial products such as phones, tablets, etc. I'd imagine they would be more than happy to license their tech to Oculus. Also, Palmer did get a nice hands-on demo :D
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by EdZ »

Isn't the Leapmotion currently priced at $70? Even if it was production ready (rather than only sending out devkits yesterday), I'm not sure it could be added to the RIFT devkits even with volume discount pricing.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by sergehag »

Maybe Leap would offer a developer version of their product for at cost as a bundle with the dev Rift
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by MSat »

EdZ wrote:Isn't the Leapmotion currently priced at $70? Even if it was production ready (rather than only sending out devkits yesterday), I'm not sure it could be added to the RIFT devkits even with volume discount pricing.
I'm just speculating, but the Leap Motion hardware might just be two cameras, 3 LEDs and a USB interface, with all the processing being done on the PC. Since it sounds like Leap isn't just looking to make the hardware, but also wants to license the technology to manufacturers of end-user products, meaning that incorporating it into a device may cost substantially less than $70. It seems like the perfect opportunity to incorporate two developer kits into one with both companies being able to benefit from each other in the long run. Obviously, I don't know if this is going to happen, but I really hope it does!
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by 3dvison »

Maybe Oculus has thier own version of the Leap in the works, that will be mass produced a little after the Dev.Kits ship, but they will have a spot on the Dev.kits shell, where it could easily be added when the RIFT Version of the Leap is released.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by Conan »

whats going on with the Rift in this video?

http://youtu.be/lUlIIrKSFoA
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by jaybug »

Looks like a VFX helmet
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by benz145 »

MSat wrote:
Fredz wrote:
MSat wrote:If so, then I'm guessing a system that moves the display rather than the optics (would that work?) so that the distance between the eye and the optics is maintained to not affect FOV. This might require the SDK to compensate for the slight changes in specification though.
This would work only for people who need the same correction for both eyes I guess.

Good point. How common is it for people who need corrective lenses to have significant differences in sight between each eye? Binoculars generally allow for slight adjustments for one of the sights - does that sound like a reasonable option for an HMD to account for the difference in each eye?
Yeah that would work well but I doubt we'll see it in the Rift as you need to allow focus for the entirety of the screen and also one of the eyes. That would introduce quite a bit more mechanics than we're likely to see on the developer kit.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by benz145 »

MSat wrote:Great find, mahler! I was just searching google images, but didn't come across that one! I did find an article from Engadget that stated it used cameras and IR leds. According to that article, and Leap's own site, they are looking to incorporate their technology into commercial products such as phones, tablets, etc. I'd imagine they would be more than happy to license their tech to Oculus. Also, Palmer did get a nice hands-on demo :D
It does indeed look like they're using a stereo IR camera. This makes me wonder though -- we're they cheating when they showed off the hand-tracking? If they are using only a stereo IR camera it would only be able to 'see' the underside of the hands; in their demos they were rendering full hand models.
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by benz145 »

Conan wrote:whats going on with the Rift in this video?

http://youtu.be/lUlIIrKSFoA
That video is from SIGGRAPH back in August, the thing he is hold is not the Rift : P
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Re: Speculation on secret "Key Features"

Post by Chriky »

I'm not sure I'd call that cheating, but yes it works out/makes up the surface for the back of your hand.
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