4 Month of free Unity pro for rift Devs

Post by **Linkage1992** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:04 am

This is disappointing. I can't afford the pro version and was really looking forward to experimenting with my rift until the consumer version came out, which would be more than 4 months. Ah well, UDK it is then.

Post by **Evenios** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:09 am

Edit: God the people were right i have said a lot of the same crap over and over and over....geez. I guess it goes to show you when you think you only resay something negitive a few times you better go back and recheck in reality how often you were an ass.

i feel bad bad now really.

Sorry folks for all the negitivity i was wrong and in the future i will be more supportive and less of an ass.

Post by **STRZ** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:22 am

I hope that the Rift will be fully supported in the upcoming Linux version of Unity, in Linux there exist almost no commercial middleware from directX 3rd parties requiring license fees like on Windows. That's basically what you pay for with the Pro version, the deal Unity made with M$ and the 3rd parties involved. Sort of flat rate acess to all this stuff.

Reddit · Post by **nateight** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:34 am

The Unity fanboyism on display in this thread is astounding.

Don't be fooled by this "generous offer" - this announcement is the death knell of indie VR development in Unity.

Don't misunderstand me, I was actually super-impressed with what I was able to accomplish in Unity in a single day's time, it's a very capable and approachable engine. But consider these various facts:

Unity Pro is required for Rift development.

"$1500 isn't that much, just build a game with this 4-month trial and use the profits to buy a license," you say? You really should have your legal team look at Unity's FAQ a little closer, Moneybags:

Can we sell games and make money with the free version of Unity? wrote:Please also be aware that the feature set of the free version is not intended for the production of professional games and interactive content. Lastly, games made with our Pro trial licenses may not be distributed nor used for commercial purposes.

If "Surely someone will put something up on the Asset Store!" is your counter-argument, please direct me to the place where I can download a package to enable Unity Indie support of something as commonplace as the humble Wiimote. UniWii? I said in Unity Indie. OSCuMote - Wiimote support for the free version? It's Mac only, but nice try. Hack a way around all this in some ridiculous fashion like sending commands through a Flash object and back into Unity or something? Pu-leeze. "Just use GlovePIE"? Haha, you're cute, you should give up game development for a career in stand-up comedy.

As a perpetually broke hacker I've always hated Unity's "our engine is free no it isn't" approach to licensing, and upon seeing this news I was extremely glad I've been watching UDK tutorials instead of Unity tutorials. Epic hasn't made any formal announcements, but consider the relative selling points of UDK (and please note I'm not anyone's employee, the only vested interest I have here is in the commercial success of VR overall):

From a technical standpoint, UDK is one of the best game engines at any price, and "better" than Unity in several very significant ways (though the points about being unhappily tied to UnrealScript and the usability/workflow hurdles that come with all this power are well taken - for something like Ludum Dare, Unity Indie is indeed a godsend, just don't try to make a VR game with it

).

UDK isn't "free no it isn't" like Unity, it's "free until you're making serious money, at which point you cut us off a slice", which is infinitely more appealing:

UDK License Terms wrote:If you create a games or commercial applications using UDK for sale or distribution to an end-user or client, or if you are providing services in connection with a UDK based game or application, the per-seat option does not apply. Instead the license terms for this arrangement are US$99 up-front, and a 0% royalty on you or your company’s first US$50,000 in UDK related revenue from all your UDK based games or commercial applications, and a 25% royalty on UDK related revenue from all your UDK based games or commercial applications above US$50,000.

A UDK installer featuring 100% of all functionality is 100% free to download and get started with right now. UDK's documentation puts Unity to shame (God help me, I coded my little Unity demo in Boo, "The Forgotten Language") - just check out these official tutorial videos. Nearly all assets packaged with UDK are 100% free even for commercial use (it gets complicated, but the sole exceptions are apparently skeletal meshes and Jazz Jackrabbit). The $99 thing is unfortunate, I'd agree, but only needs to be paid once you have a working product you're ready to sell; anyone drawing comparisons to the $1500 ransom Unity Pro demands just to get started? You're not allowed to call yourself "indie" ever again, sorry.

Now, of course, Epic hasn't said for certain what's going to be involved in Rift support for UDK, but they give everything else away for nothing at all - do you really think this small bit of support that's been largely cooked up by Oculus is going to be the one thing with a price tag hanging off of it? Why Unity wants to settle for a steady revenue stream when Epic is about to eat their lunch giving an arguably superior engine away for nothing is their business, but I'm still going to call it bad business. Pointing fingers at Oculus is beyond childish, I'm very sure they did all they could to convince Unity but Unity's knuckleheaded business model got in the way. And for the people who understand UDK's revenue cutoff system yet are still saying "OMG 25% royalty how outrageous", hopefully there will be some open-source options available, and/or maybe you should have your $50,000+/year game empire cook up an engine of your very own? If you don't charge $1500, I might even use it!

Post by **ChrisJD** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:59 am

nateight wrote:Don't be fooled by this "generous offer" - this announcement is the death knell of indie VR development in Unity.

Don't get overly dramatic or anything, it's nothing of the sort. For anyone doing indie development (a business) $1500 is a small cost.

What it kills is hobby development.

Reddit · Post by **nateight** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:06 am

ChrisJD wrote:Don't get overly dramatic or anything, it's nothing of the sort. For anyone doing indie development (a business) $1500 is a small cost.

I have no desire to get into a semantic argument, but my definition of "indie game developer" excludes anyone and everyone willing and able to spend $1500 just to start working on a video game. You're very welcome to have a different definition because it really is a difficult thing to define; I stand by my statements.

Post by **MSat** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:17 am

There was a time when id tech and Unreal engine licenses costed $500,000 (not a typo) PLUS royalties. Not to mention that the tools were not much more than a level and maybe script editor, as well as a few others like model/animation importers. Fancy workflow managers are great, but is not having one a big deal if you're just making simple demos for fun? I would only consider using Unity if I was going to make a commercial product given that it fulfilled all my needs.

Post by **mfalx** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:22 am

I am also a one man indie/part time studio with 2 published games on one of the mobile platforms (one of them free). There is no way I can justify paying for the PRO version of Unity based on my current sales volumes, never mind trying to compete with the established studios on the Windows platform. My bank manager would just laugh at me. Im gutted.

Post by **baggyg** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:12 am

Did I miss the link of where I can apply for the free trial? or is this coming with the dev kits?

It would be nice to get this ASAP considering I wont be getting the RIFT for a while (pre order) and gives me something to do whilst waiting. Currently using Unity Free and cant see anything on their website.

Thanks to anyone who can provide the link

Post by **GeraldT** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:29 am

baggyg wrote:Did I miss the link of where I can apply for the free trial? or is this coming with the dev kits?

It would be nice to get this ASAP considering I wont be getting the RIFT for a while (pre order) and gives me something to do whilst waiting. Currently using Unity Free and cant see anything on their website.

Thanks to anyone who can provide the link

You want to waste Pro trial months without having the Rift??? I don't think that is a good idea and pretty sure not how it is supposed to be. You have a 1 month trial anyway, so go for that. If you are lucky, you might get another 4 months.
But starting your trial now might result in you getting the Rift after your trial ran out.

Post by **Mindvent** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:31 am

Yeah, limiting the Oculus support to Pro is a poor act and goes against the spirit of encouraging mainstream adoption of VR.

It will limit a large number of hobbiest developers who have great ideas waiting to be tapped.

Post by **GeraldT** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:46 am

Mindvent wrote:Yeah, limiting the Oculus support to Pro is a poor act and goes against the spirit of encouraging mainstream adoption of VR.

It will limit a large number of hobbiest developers who have great ideas waiting to be tapped.

It was that way long before the Oculus was a company. So why is it a poor act??

And why will it limit hobbiest developers? UDK and a lot of other ways will still be open to them. If you are unhappy, then ask Oculus to find a way to get it working with Unity free. THEY are the VR company, not Unity.

Post by **virror** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:00 am

Ok, lets solve this guys!
The stereo and tracking is possible with Unity pro as already stated by multiple ppl.
What about adding the warp-shader externally as the Vireio driver does? Also, is it possible to have this totally passive, so it "just works"?

Post by **Mindvent** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:11 am

GeraldT wrote:
Mindvent wrote:Yeah, limiting the Oculus support to Pro is a poor act and goes against the spirit of encouraging mainstream adoption of VR.

It will limit a large number of hobbiest developers who have great ideas waiting to be tapped.
It was that way long before the Oculus was a company. So why is it a poor act??

And why will it limit hobbiest developers? UDK and a lot of other ways will still be open to them. If you are unhappy, then ask Oculus to find a way to get it working with Unity free. THEY are the VR company, not Unity.

I understand there is UDK. But there are many people (including many talented kids, check YouTube) who use Unity-lite.

Oculus don't decide how Unity packages/prices their application suite.

Unity is a business and can price how they choose. I just feel, in this current environment - with Oculus/VR needing all the help it can get to grow, it just feels a bit like a money grab, that's all.

Post by **baggyg** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:16 am

GeraldT wrote:
baggyg wrote:Did I miss the link of where I can apply for the free trial? or is this coming with the dev kits?

It would be nice to get this ASAP considering I wont be getting the RIFT for a while (pre order) and gives me something to do whilst waiting. Currently using Unity Free and cant see anything on their website.

Thanks to anyone who can provide the link
You want to waste Pro trial months without having the Rift??? I don't think that is a good idea and pretty sure not how it is supposed to be. You have a 1 month trial anyway, so go for that. If you are lucky, you might get another 4 months.
But starting your trial now might result in you getting the Rift after your trial ran out.

I was in the first 200 preorders so if it took 4 months to get my dev kit I would be very upset. I appreciate what you are saying but with all things its better to offer the choice (Ive already used my one month trial up). The point being the whole trial is there to persuade you to buy the pro edition. I dont think many people will be saying "quick lets make a game and publish it in four months". Maybe today is a little early for the trial. But having to wait for my devkit to get access (if that is the case) is certainly later than I , and probably a few other people, would like.

Post by **cmfockler** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:18 am

Ok, a new day and a new perspective for me. I like Unity a lot (editor, asset store, documentation, C#). It has everything I want. I'm staying with Unity and will continue to work on my current project ideas using the free version.

Instead I will give up on this idea of creating my own VR content for now. I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone else creates.

Post by **Mindvent** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:22 am

cmfockler wrote: Instead I will give up on this idea of creating my own VR content for now.

This was exactly my concern. Switching engines (UDK, or whatever) is not a simple decision and its disappointing the price barrier will make people abandon their VR ideas.

Post by **GeraldT** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:28 am

Mindvent wrote: Unity is a business and can price how they choose, I just feel, in this current environment - with Oculus/VR needing all the help it can get to grow, it just feels a bit like a money grab, that's all.

Just so I understand you right. You are complaining, that Unity is not supporting Oculus VR? Except for the 4 month Pro trial that of course is advertising for them, and also for Oculus in a very critical usergroup: developers.
But that is not enough? They should change their business model to accommodate Oculus and give away the needed Pro features for free? So they will not earn any money from those projects?

I would love to see a free Unity workaround for the Rift. But I think it is a great step from Unity to offer a 4 months evaluation period, so you have plenty of time to create something with the Rift. And if you are serious, then you can kickstart it. If you have something good, then I am sure they will love to say "sure you can use the material created with the trial for your kickstarter". They are pretty approachable from what I have heard from other developers. They will not allow you to kickstart some shovelware and I think that is good.

The real reason people cry out is that Unity is a great tool to work with and most don't really want to learn how to use UDK or even pure C++.

baggyg wrote: The point being the whole trial is there to persuade you to buy the pro edition.

Yes - and no. The point of this extended trial is so you can create with the Rift for 4 months, which you can only do with a Rift. Of course they aim at getting you to buy Unity, what other reason would they have. But using the extended trial for any other reason is not something they would necessary want to support. And if I may ask - what do you need the extended trial for as long as you don't have the Rift?

Post by **mfalx** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:32 am

I made careful decisions 2 years ago about which engine I was going to use for the future. So all the time I have invested in learning and developing my games for Unity would have to be thrown out the window If i moved over to UDK. (I have paid for IOS and Android addons for Unity 3)

So, to develop seriously for the Rift I am going to have upgrade to Unity version 4, pay for Android and iOS addons again as to keep my existing/published games current (albeit at upgrade discount prices) and pay the whopping price for the Pro version of unity. (you cannot publish games with the trial license)

I may be a hobbyist, but I run my studio as a part time business, so I find this extremely limiting.

I am also quite angered by the fact that we are being charged $1500 for what is essentially just a shader. I think Oculus VR are behind the actual code base for their own SDK and so this cost lies mainly at the feet of Unity Technologies. ( I may be wrong here)

So heres hoping the Unify Community http://wiki.unity3d.com/index.php/Main_Page can come up with something for the indies like myself.

Reddit · Post by **nateight** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:35 am

Mindvent wrote:with Oculus/VR needing all the help it can get to grow, [Unity Pro required] just feels a bit like a money grab

Now, consider what Unity could have done instead:

Pingly (on Reddit) wrote:I think the trial is a silly approach. Maybe giving a discount would have been a better move.

Imagine Kickstarter update #24 isn't a "Pro" test-drive you can't ever publish anything from, rather Unity announces something like, "We believe in VR, therefore anyone receiving a Rift dev kit can purchase Unity Pro for <$1000" (they do have deep discounts for student versions of Unity, so this is far from something beyond their abilities). What's the reaction now?

Widespread jubilation. Instead of people bitching about how painful $1500 is to their current financial situation, dropping their plans to develop in Unity, and/or vowing to never support Unity in the future, thousands of devs everywhere rejoice. People who were on the fence between UDK and Unity decide to embrace Unity, resulting in Unity making more money than they would have if they had simply offered support absent anything else. People with a shaky footing on 3D design would go ahead and take the plunge and release stuff that could potentially change the very nature of VR and maybe the course of history; instead, anyone willing to dabble with Unity and a Rift can't even release their experiments for free without paying a $1500 ransom. And people think Oculus has made some bad PR moves?

Post by **Mindvent** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:40 am

GeraldT wrote:
Mindvent wrote: Unity is a business and can price how they choose, I just feel, in this current environment - with Oculus/VR needing all the help it can get to grow, it just feels a bit like a money grab, that's all.
Just so I understand you right. You are complaining, that Unity is not supporting Oculus VR? Except for the 4 month Pro trial that of course is advertising for them, and also for Oculus in a very critical usergroup: developers.

Having a price barrier limits the potential exposure for Oculus. As we saw above, people may choose to abandon their VR ideas due to not being able to afford the Pro entry.

People choose Unity for it's approachability and it's just a shame they didn't choose to take a more open/supportive approach and allow Oculus/VR integration support in the lite version. We would have more people experimenting and playing with VR ideas, ultimately leading to wider exposure for the Rift - and Unity.

Post by **GeraldT** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:43 am

mfalx wrote: I am also quite angered by the fact that we are being charged $1500 for what is essentially just a shader.

You are charged 1500$ for the full package. But I see where you are coming from. They should offer a Rift "plugin" for Unity free at a lower price point. I can agree with that, it would be a win/win for both sides.
Maybe this will come in the future.

Post by **GeraldT** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:46 am

Mindvent wrote: Having a price barrier limits the potential exposure for Oculus. As we saw above, people may choose to abandon their VR ideas due to not being able to afford the Pro entry.

Do you think Ferrari should remove the price barrier so I can get one since it would be good for motorsport? I am all for it.

If people are neither willing to spend time (UDK) or money (Unity) on creating VR games, then it seems to me that people are not that motivated to create VR games. My guess though is that people are ... just not all.

Post by **Mindvent** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:47 am

GeraldT wrote:
mfalx wrote: I am also quite angered by the fact that we are being charged $1500 for what is essentially just a shader.
You are charged 1500$ for the full package. But I see where you are coming from. They should offer a Rift "plugin" for Unity free at a lower price point. I can agree with that, it would be a win/win for both sides.
Maybe this will come in the future.

Agree and with Nateight's point. Doesn't have to be fully free. But that $1500 hit is going discourage many, that's all I'm concerned about.

Post by **Mindvent** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:50 am

GeraldT wrote:
Do you think Ferrari should remove the price barrier so I can get one since it would be good for motorsport?

Post by **GeraldT** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:51 am

nateight wrote: And people think Oculus has made some bad PR moves?

"evil" card => Unity ... you see where I got that impression?

Post by **Okta** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:57 am

One thing Unity's pricing model shows- the vast majority of projects never realise a financial success, so they hit you straight up for cash rather than assume you will create something of value with it.

Post by **Pingles** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:00 am

Unity is an amazing accomplishment in and of itself. The power they give programmers is pretty amazing.

After thinking it through I've decided to give them my money.

I will certainly wait as long as I can before buying the Pro. It would be nice if they threw Rift developers a bit more of a bone.

Maybe once the Rifts are in a few hands and the Internet starts buzzing with demos and Youtube videos they'll decide to attract more people to their development system.

But even if they leave it as is I think I will support them for their amazing product, even if I feel their "deal" for Rift developers is a bit silly.

EDIT: Credit where credit is due -- by "thinking it through" I mean mulling over some of the great comments in this thread. Thanks to the folks who kept a level head and discussed this calmly.

Post by **GeraldT** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:07 am

Pingles wrote:Unity is an amazing accomplishment in and of itself. The power they give programmers is pretty amazing.

After thinking it through I've decided to give them my money.

I will certainly wait as long as I can before buying the Pro. It would be nice if they threw Rift developers a bit more of a bone.

Maybe once the Rifts are in a few hands and the Internet starts buzzing with demos and Youtube videos they'll decide to attract more people to their development system.

But even if they leave it as is I think I will support them for their amazing product, even if I feel their "deal" for Rift developers is a bit silly.

have you entered your Pro trial so far? I loved it when I was using the free version, and I waited quite a bit before activating my pro trial. It was a true eye opener, because suddenly my material looked like "professional" stuff. Just those real-time shadows added so much. They might create a plugin that will offer Rift support for less money, but if you can, then go pro. It is so worth the money.

Post by **virror** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:20 am

So, instead of acting like a bunch of children that did not get what they wished for at Christmas, why not focus on finding a solution instead? Not like this thread will make Unity change their mind.

Post by **zalo** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:38 am

Personally, I think all you guys balking a putting down $1500 for a life-time of professional commercial game development are a bunch of babies. If you aren't certain you can financially successful with the Pro version, USE THE TRIAL VERSION TO FIND OUT. If it turns out GOOD then GREAT. VR development in Unity is FOR YOU. Buy it because this small investment will be insignificant in the long-run. If it turns out BAD then SORRY. VR development in unity is NOT FOR YOU. YOU WOULDN'T HAVE MADE ANY MONEY ANYWAY.

If it turned out good but didn't sell well, that's not Unity's fault. That's your marketing effort's fault, and it would have happened in any engine.

However, that's not the point of my post right now (though it did take a larger chunk than I expected). I'm wondering if the rift's SBS warping shader will break all the other Image Processing effects we have access to. SSAO, Bloom, motion blur, Anti-aliasing... these are all critical for a professional game, and other drivers have been known to break these things in games.

Post by **anon84** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:57 am

quite annoying as I've been casually playing with the free version for a couple months and haven't even looked at UDK yet, (well, since 7 or 8 years ago for UT2004 maps but I've forgotten all that knowledge) It's just as well you can get Unity Pro for free so this is not a complete disaster, although you probably wouldn't be able to / shouldn't sell games with it, but fine for the hobbyist making free demos & apps for the community.

as mentioned you can already get stereo cameras in the free version, so I wonder if you can just make your game side by side in unity, integrate the tracking and all that, then use one of those injection/hook drivers to apply the warp shader on the final app? (just for hobbyist community demos and apps of course)

Post by **cmfockler** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:09 am

Is it possible to take a Unity project made with the free version and compile it with the Pro version? Maybe I could find a friend that [ERROR 529 : signal lost]

Post by **Cymatic** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:10 am

Wow, things are getting intense.

Yes, there are some of us that flat out cannot afford $1500 for Unity Pro. That is unfortunate, because it is hands down the best engine for a beginner. But Unity has a business model, Oculus did the best they could, and there is little we can do about that.

Let's talk solutions.

We have UDK. Sure, its not the easiest to use, but more Rift devs on UDK means more tutorials/support/info to make the process easier. Personally I am keeping a journal of my progress and posting tutorials, so others won't have to bear the same frustrations that I do. I encourage other devs to do the same.

There is this thread discussing free/open source engines that are likely to have Rift support. Do some research and find out if one of these fit you. One of the first things I saw on MTBS3D that motivated me was a guy that got the Hydra working in Blender.

When it comes down to it, the idea of VR experiences compels us all to some degree - enough to drive the desire to create our own experiences. Don't let that drive die because of this setback. I am certain that the quintessential VR app will come out of this community, as long as we work together, share information, and do not lose sight of our enthusiasm.

VR development is new territory. Don't get bent out of shape because the roads aren't paved.

Post by **Pingles** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:19 am

Cymatic wrote:Wow, things are getting intense.

Yes, there are some of us that flat out cannot afford $1500 for Unity Pro. That is unfortunate, because it is hands down the best engine for a beginner. But Unity has a business model, Oculus did the best they could, and there is little we can do about that.

Let's talk solutions.

We have UDK. Sure, its not the easiest to use, but more Rift devs on UDK means more tutorials/support/info to make the process easier. Personally I am keeping a journal of my progress and posting tutorials, so others won't have to bear the same frustrations that I do. I encourage other devs to do the same.

There is this thread discussing free/open source engines that are likely to have Rift support. Do some research and find out if one of these fit you. One of the first things I saw on MTBS3D that motivated me was a guy that got the Hydra working in Blender.

When it comes down to it, the idea of VR experiences compels us all to some degree - enough to drive the desire to create our own experiences. Don't let that drive die because of this setback. I am certain that the quintessential VR app will come out of this community, as long as we work together, share information, and do not lose sight of our enthusiasm.

VR development is new territory. Don't get bent out of shape because the roads aren't paved.

Great post. Instead of ranting lets work together to make things better. Some UDK Rift tutorials would be great.

Post by **DFP** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:28 am

Would be nice if there was an open source app that could bind hydra/rift head tracking/ and everything else to mouse movements/buttons and keyboard keys (as well as a draggable overlay window that could warp the area within). It would suck to be working on a game for 4 months and then have the whole thing shut down because the trial has an arbitrary timed period.

I really don't understand why there's even a time limit on the trial period, but as someone mentioned before, Unity could just be making a money grab from developers who will never finish or distribute their work. That to me is the only problem. The time limit doesn't make sense as the licensing rules are pretty strict anyways.

Obviously we knew Unity free could never support the Rift because of the specific requirements being locked away. It was really just us wondering whether or not Unity would be Bros about it. Most of my software/licenses/developing tools are for OSX environment so for me Unity is the only path really, though I'm wondering how UDK/CryEngine might perform through parallels/virtualization.

Post by **STRZ** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:29 am

1500$ isn't a big amount for a serious hobby, well if developing is your main hobby. I'm used to pay for my hobbies anyway and barely getting a payback for it in the form of cash. It's Ok, it's a hobby because you love what you're doing and get the fun out of it by doing it, and the discovery aspect and learning, with the goal of creating something you'd use yourself.

Speaking for me personally, a 1500$ license would set another project back, it's 1500$ for a Unity license, and entering a new ground of game development which isn't explored yet, or 2000$ for a motion simulator to actually maximize the fun with the Rift as a user. Both things in the same timeframe is almost impossible. I really hate eating Ramen regularly

UDK isn't an option for me because they don't have plans for a Linux client and i want to avoid to lock me into the directX ecosystem and Windows. Unity has plans for a Linux client, that's the dilemma, i was really exited about it and still am in some way. A open source engine with Rift support would come in handy though

Post by **krylonshadow** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:31 am

55604 is the magic number.

If you develop your game in UDK and make $55,604 from it, you will have to pay $1500 in licensing fees: $99 for the UDK license and then the 25% royalty fee for every dollar over $50,000.

This doesn't just include game sales:

http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/DevelopmentKitFAQ.html wrote:The 25% royalty is calculated on the revenue the UDK licensee receives by commercializing their UDK application. It will be defined in the Commercial Amendment to the EULA to "includes, but is not limited to, revenue earned from: sales, advertisements, sponsorships, endorsements, subscription fees, microtransactions, in-game item or service sales, rentals, pay-to-play, services you sell or are remunerated for in connection with the use of your application and amounts a third party pays You to develop or use the application."

Even Kickstarter funds are subject to this royalty fee:

http://www.unrealengine.com/udk/licensing/licensing-faqs/ wrote:Yes, crowd funding is perfectly acceptable with UDK games; however, a $99 commercial UDK license is required and all revenue earned through the crowd funding is subject to the standard UDK royalty.

Here's the problem, from that 55604th dollar and beyond you will still always have to pay that 25% royalty fee. One in every four dollars will be ripped out of your pocket.

However, if you develop your game in Unity and make $55,604, you will also have to pay $1500 in licensing fees, but only upfront for Unity Pro. Every single dollar you make is all yours.

http://unity3d.com/unity/faq wrote:Unity does not charge on a per title basis and you do not pay royalties or pay revenue share, even for games and applications made with the free version.

Therefore, if you're working on a commercial project and you think you're capable of making more than $55,604, purely from a monetary standpoint, Unity is the better choice.

I'm not gonna argue which engine is functionally better than the other. I'm talking money. We all like money. Unfortunately, some people just can't afford to pay $1500 upfront. Well here's a concept:
Use your 4 month trial to build something shiny. Throw it on Kickstarter, and if it's good, you'll get your damn $1500 and probably much more...you greedy "indie" developers, you can have my money, take it! Take it!!

It comes down to whether or not you want to--and actually believe you can--make money off of your game. Different business models cater to different people. UDK says hey I love everyone, go make whatever you want for free, whether it's a success or a failure...but if it's a wild success, I'm gonna haunt you forever and claim 25% of your profits. Unity says hey I don't know whether you're gonna be successful or not so how about you give me a decent check so I can pay my own bills, and if you do end up doing really well, keep it, it's all yours. Which one you choose is based on your interest and confidence in commercial success.

Post by **cmfockler** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:03 am

Cymatic wrote:Wow, things are getting intense...

...VR development is new territory. Don't get bent out of shape because the roads aren't paved.

I'm not tensated at all. Just saying that I've already traveled well down Unity road and it is indeed paved with some very smooth stones. And that's important when you're joy riding on a unicycle.

I'm not very interested in starting over with different tools and languages now. There will be ways to get my VR development fix with free Unity. I just need to find a Pro friend that is willing to [Communication link failure]

Post by **Fredrum** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:14 am

I think I probably will end up forking out for the Pro license in the end.
I don't fancy moving to anything else as Unity seems easy to use and I already have something running there, even if very basic. I do enjoy working with it.

A few questions I am wondering about,

If I want to get other people involved to do additional coding, would they need a Pro license too?

A project that has transitioned to being developed using Pro, could non Pro users work on it and run the project in edit mode?