nanicoar wrote:What if all of you pitched in with the money you are willing to part with to hire developers for open source projects like Blender or Torque3D?
That would be great.
nanicoar wrote:What if all of you pitched in with the money you are willing to part with to hire developers for open source projects like Blender or Torque3D?
That would be great.
People have been saying the same of Blender for YEARS and it's still out in the cold, at best it's a favorite platform for PhDware, not production. I hate Autodesk and would love it if I never had to use one of their 'products' again, but Blender just isn't up to the challenge of replacing the Autodesk suites.Mart wrote:No doubt open source engines are the future, but Unity is the right engine for my projects at this time.
This is really the thing. I love open source software and would prefer to use it, but if it can't offer what I need right now, I need an alternative solution.Aabel wrote:Because I need a tool with Unity Pro's feature set now, not 12-18 months (or longer) from now. I just want to buy a software tool, not get wrapped up in tool development.nanicoar wrote:What if all of you pitched in with the money you are willing to part with to hire developers for open source projects like Blender or Torque3D?
That would be great.
any chance you can ask them if you add aditional devs later if the same discount will apply if they use the same group id/dev name( or if it needs to be in bulks of 10 etc. )? a lot of us havnt recieved our rifts yet so we cant commit to a license at the moment.Korda wrote:----------------------------------------
UNITY RESPONSE
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Hi everyone,
I heard back from Unity and they are willing to give us a discount. TL;DR 5% discount for 3-9 people 10% discount for 10+ people and additional 5% discount if you use their logo in your game, and mention them in credits.
The full email is below:
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Hello Matthew,
It's good to hear from you. Since our last conversation we have had some more updates to our discount structure. I can now offer a 5% reduction on an order of between 3-9 Pro licenses. This discount raises to a 10% reduction on orders of 10-14 Pro licenses. Studios purchasing volume licenses can benefit from these reductions. However I would be happy to extend this discount to members in your group. I'll need to set up accounts for each developer, however if say for example 2-3 developers are apart of a single studio, it would be easier to setup an account in their studio name and then have separate contacts under that one account.
In addition to this I can access an additional % discount using the Powered by Unity Branding Addendum. We can raise the 5% discount to a 10% reduction, and the 10% discount to a 15% reduction if the developer is agreeable to the terms. I have attached the addendum for your groups review.
I'll look forward to assisting you all further with your licensing questions and requirement.
Kind regards,
Alex
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I am not sure how long this offer is good for so I am going to try and lock down numbers this week. If you are interested please PM me as soon as possible and I will add you to a list of names I will send to Alex and then we will take it from there.
If I read the pdf correctly you need to do TWO things so both a splash screen and credits but that doesn't seem like a huge burden to me (Actually I probably would have done it anyway)Pingles wrote:Fantastic. I'm in! I'll send a PM.
I just read the pdf. All they want is a splash screen at startup for another 5% off. OR just put them in the credits. I'm all for that.
I think it depends where your strenghts are, if you create all your art assets on your own and don't need the Unity store for this, you could use a open source environment like Torque or if you have C++ knowledge you could use Ogre and patch you own engine together consisting of the tools you prefer. And there's plenty of open source or affordable stuff out there.Mystify wrote:This is really the thing. I love open source software and would prefer to use it, but if it can't offer what I need right now, I need an alternative solution.Aabel wrote:Because I need a tool with Unity Pro's feature set now, not 12-18 months (or longer) from now. I just want to buy a software tool, not get wrapped up in tool development.nanicoar wrote:What if all of you pitched in with the money you are willing to part with to hire developers for open source projects like Blender or Torque3D?
That would be great.
If someone wants to convince me that an open source solution DOES meet my needs, then that is another matter, and I would be quite happy to discuss it.
My first attempt at making a 3D game involved me patching things together on my own. It mainly raised a lot of issues I didn't want to have to deal with; how do I read in the model format? Where in the world is the specification for this? How do I set up rendering pipelines? How do you optimize things?STRZ wrote: I think it depends where your strenghts are, if you create all your art assets on your own and don't need the Unity store for this, you could use a open source environment like Torque or if you have C++ knowledge you could use Ogre and patch you own engine together consisting of the tools you prefer. And there's plenty of open source or affordable stuff out there.
I'm into audio production as well, and the vendor lockin, like relying on a software suite like Unity happened to me as well, i was using Reason back then, it's like Unity for audio, providing a nice guided ecosystem for beginners, but making you very dependent, because you only can interface with other 3rd party tools if the company implements it, and often doesn't because they have contracts with particular 3rd parties. Also from Sweden like Unity
Getting better and discovering the nature of how things work, the desire to use certain features which weren't available and interoperability grew more and more. Then i discovered Linux for audio production, providing a open standard interface system (jack) on OS level, where you can route the audio from one application into another, supported almost by every audio application on Linux. You don't have a full featured software suite like Reason, but the truth is that the entire operating system can function as software suite making it far more poweful than using a dedicated software suite. Software suites are operating systems running inside operating systems nowadays, if you look at the big ones in each genre.
Personally, my goal is to create a Linux environment like this for VR application development, and having standalone renderers like Ogre, animation tools liie Smartbody or NI, sculpting tools and all the other stuff available behaving like it would be a software suite, only that it's modular and open source. A dedicated operating system as VR tailored developing environment, which you can use alongside your normal operating system. I'll make a thread today or tomorrow listing all the programs there i've found so far.
Personally, i think that interoperable tools and a true modular developing environment, ideally skinned in a consistent way would be very benefitial. If you need binaural audio, a reverb or whatever you just route the audio into another tool. or if you don't like the renderer, like Ogre, you use a another one etc.
I was gonna dive head first into UDK, but after this I may just lay out some cash for Unity.Mystify wrote:My first attempt at making a 3D game involved me patching things together on my own. It mainly raised a lot of issues I didn't want to have to deal with; how do I read in the model format? Where in the world is the specification for this? How do I set up rendering pipelines? How do you optimize things?STRZ wrote: I think it depends where your strenghts are, if you create all your art assets on your own and don't need the Unity store for this, you could use a open source environment like Torque or if you have C++ knowledge you could use Ogre and patch you own engine together consisting of the tools you prefer. And there's plenty of open source or affordable stuff out there.
I'm into audio production as well, and the vendor lockin, like relying on a software suite like Unity happened to me as well, i was using Reason back then, it's like Unity for audio, providing a nice guided ecosystem for beginners, but making you very dependent, because you only can interface with other 3rd party tools if the company implements it, and often doesn't because they have contracts with particular 3rd parties. Also from Sweden like Unity
Getting better and discovering the nature of how things work, the desire to use certain features which weren't available and interoperability grew more and more. Then i discovered Linux for audio production, providing a open standard interface system (jack) on OS level, where you can route the audio from one application into another, supported almost by every audio application on Linux. You don't have a full featured software suite like Reason, but the truth is that the entire operating system can function as software suite making it far more poweful than using a dedicated software suite. Software suites are operating systems running inside operating systems nowadays, if you look at the big ones in each genre.
Personally, my goal is to create a Linux environment like this for VR application development, and having standalone renderers like Ogre, animation tools liie Smartbody or NI, sculpting tools and all the other stuff available behaving like it would be a software suite, only that it's modular and open source. A dedicated operating system as VR tailored developing environment, which you can use alongside your normal operating system. I'll make a thread today or tomorrow listing all the programs there i've found so far.
Personally, i think that interoperable tools and a true modular developing environment, ideally skinned in a consistent way would be very benefitial. If you need binaural audio, a reverb or whatever you just route the audio into another tool. or if you don't like the renderer, like Ogre, you use a another one etc.
It was a fairly monumental task to set up the underlying engine, without even getting to developing a game to run on it. I don't want to deal with all of that when working in 3D anymore than I want to manage the raw graphics buffer when working in 2D. It is a large portion of the work which has been done before, by people who have spent more time and effort optimizing it than I can. I can step into unity and start making infinite terrain generators and build procedural level generation off the bat. I don't need to spend a year developing the engine first. I don't have to resolve problems that the industry has spent the last 2 decades perfecting. When I tried unity, it put me at the exact level of abstraction I want to work with. I can dive down and manipulate individual vertices if I wish, or easily import models and animations, and blend them together. I can put out a physical object, and have it behave properly without writing a custom collision detector for it, or create an alien orb with behavior purely of my own devising. I have all the power I want, while not being required to utilize any of it if I don't need to. I can immediately put my efforts into making my own game, and working on what will make my program distinct from everyone else's. Unity offers me what I need. Open source software may have any individual component I need, but it doesn't give it to me in a workable package. I have a full time job, I don't have the free time to worry about all the low level stuff anymore. I need to be able to effectively get in and work on things at the higher level in order to accomplish things in my time constraints.
Unity is incredibly easy to use and even if you don't have much coding/scripting experience there are things like Playmaker that can ease you into it.Mel wrote:I was gonna dive head first into UDK, but after this I may just lay out some cash for Unity.
This is a problem of poor documentation and providing a package bundleing the software, so that you don't need to invest time to digg through the internet, download the sourcecode, compile it, figuring out how you could create a good workflow etc..Mystify wrote: Open source software may have any individual component I need, but it doesn't give it to me in a workable package. I have a full time job, I don't have the free time to worry about all the low level stuff anymore. I need to be able to effectively get in and work on things at the higher level in order to accomplish things in my time constraints.
Yeah, that was a lot of the obstacle to getting things working.STRZ wrote:This is a problem of poor documentation and providing a package bundleing the software, so that you don't need to invest time to digg through the internet, download the sourcecode, compile it, figuring out how you could create a good workflow etc..Mystify wrote: Open source software may have any individual component I need, but it doesn't give it to me in a workable package. I have a full time job, I don't have the free time to worry about all the low level stuff anymore. I need to be able to effectively get in and work on things at the higher level in order to accomplish things in my time constraints.
In addition, the psychological aspect of how you present stuff is very important if you want that people use it. F.e, the oversaturated ingame screenshots and early 2000's look of the Ogre frontpage is what puts many people off. That's where Unity really strikes, the consistency of how they present themselfes, it has the Appleish feeling.
I am almost certain that it will have to be in bulk but next time I contact Alex I will ask when the offer expires.lmimmfn wrote: any chance you can ask them if you add aditional devs later if the same discount will apply if they use the same group id/dev name( or if it needs to be in bulks of 10 etc. )? a lot of us havnt recieved our rifts yet so we cant commit to a license at the moment.
Sorry for the additional ifs and buts, well done on getting a discount.
I was curious about this too and asked Alex about it, I have not yet received a reply but I am under the impression that it is more of a promise to add the splash screen etc once you publish something.AussieMike wrote:Great work on securing a discount Korda.
Quick question though - how will the extra 5% discount work. Will Unity refund the 5% once you publish a game with the splash screen? Or do you just make a promise to do so?
Reason I ask is that I'm a hobbyist and may or may not ever publish a game, but "if" i do, then I'm happy to put the splash screen in.
Cheers,
Michael
The extra 5% - part of me thinks 'cool, as long as what they want isn't too obnoxious', the other part thinks it's not that much to pay to retain forever the right to brand my games however I see fit. I'm undecided on that. The timing is something we should figure out.daveo2013 wrote:10 - 15% is better than a kick in the teeth - I'm probably* in! Thanks for setting this up
*I say probably, because it depends on timing - it makes good sense to make use of the 4 month free trial that comes with the Rift, though on the other hand my trial will run out probably before my rift arrives.
Thanks Korda, very much appreciated.Korda wrote:I am almost certain that it will have to be in bulk but next time I contact Alex I will ask when the offer expires.lmimmfn wrote: any chance you can ask them if you add aditional devs later if the same discount will apply if they use the same group id/dev name( or if it needs to be in bulks of 10 etc. )? a lot of us havnt recieved our rifts yet so we cant commit to a license at the moment.
Sorry for the additional ifs and buts, well done on getting a discount.
I was wondering about that - I assumed that we would get a 4 month trial code when our rift arrives. Is it possible to start the 4 month free trial now, while waiting for the rift to arrive? (I'm one of the first 1000 pre-orders, I presume the 4 month trial is still offered to pre-orders)Mystify wrote:The timing is something we should figure out.daveo2013 wrote:10 - 15% is better than a kick in the teeth - I'm probably* in! Thanks for setting this up
*I say probably, because it depends on timing - it makes good sense to make use of the 4 month free trial that comes with the Rift, though on the other hand my trial will run out probably before my rift arrives.
I was planning on using up the free trial before purchasing, and since we all have access to it, waiting 4 months before purchasing would seem to make sense- assuming we all have to do it at the same time.
There is also the possibility that in those 4 months, people will come up with acceptable ways to use the rift in the free version, and people may decide they want to stay with the free version.
For myself, the extra features in pro were already tempting, and the requirement for VR development was just a strong shove, so I'd likely continue to purchase it regardless, but others may regret getting locked in to the pro version prematurely.
Thanks for that, i think it might be best to leave it until 3-4 months time where we have our rifts and we have an idea of whether Unity is the best engine for specific devs( i havnt used it yet, just saying but will be playing with it shortly ). In that case i dont think its fair to rely on yourself, but it would be good if we have a batch of devs that want a license, if we can contact you for info, Alex's email etc.?Korda wrote:I got some clarification on the additional 5% discount,
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To answer those questions the addendum would apply for every Unity project you work within the legal entity agreeing to the addendum. It then means that the legal entity will always receive a permanent Branding Addendum discount.
In regards to the games feature, please keep me posted and I'll do my best to get it in front of the right people internally within Unity. Usually access points would be through the website. But we're naturally more open to projects that specifically state they are made in Unity.
Yes the addendum can be applied on a per person based. It would apply to the legal entity, whether that is an individual or studio it doesn't matter. Those who opt out of the addendum simply will not be able to access the added discount.
I hope this helps clarify, please do let me know if you have anymore questions I can help with. I'll look forward to hearing from you.
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There is a Unity logo pack on the asset store for the addendum which is free for you to check out. Regarding timing, I don't know how long this offer is good for but four months is probably not realistic. For those who want to wait until after the trial I can give you Alex's details and you could attempt do this again at a later date.
Cromfel wrote:/salute Korda, very nice initiative
Thanks! Purely selfish reasons though, I am a total miser.
These are perfectly valid concerns and they are by no means unique to your position. They are however the exact same reason for why asset creation tools are so prohibitively expensive. Consider young talent in developing countries under the onus of software piracy. To them a 10% discount on USD $1500 is like a slap in the face... If an industry then raises and maintains this segregated community as a barrier against newcomers a great social injustice is being carried out, and it is no way to the benefit of the common good.Mystify wrote:When I tried unity, it put me at the exact level of abstraction I want to work with. I can dive down and manipulate individual vertices if I wish, or easily import models and animations, and blend them together. I can put out a physical object, and have it behave properly without writing a custom collision detector for it, or create an alien orb with behavior purely of my own devising. I have all the power I want, while not being required to utilize any of it if I don't need to. I can immediately put my efforts into making my own game, and working on what will make my program distinct from everyone else's. Unity offers me what I need. Open source software may have any individual component I need, but it doesn't give it to me in a workable package. I have a full time job, I don't have the free time to worry about all the low level stuff anymore. I need to be able to effectively get in and work on things at the higher level in order to accomplish things in my time constraints.
It depends on your regions and exchange rateszinion wrote:Nice work..
someone want to tell me how much it is with the discount.. also i am more than happy to put there logo... who wouldn't be happy to do that there engine is awesome
Considering that a lot of the stuff I looked at cost several times as much,, $1500 seemed like a reasonable price for all of the expertise that went into making unity.nanicoar wrote:These are perfectly valid concerns and they are by no means unique to your position. They are however the exact same reason for why asset creation tools are so prohibitively expensive. Consider young talent in developing countries under the onus of software piracy. To them a 10% discount on USD $1500 is like a slap in the face... If an industry then raises and maintains this segregated community as a barrier against newcomers a great social injustice is being carried out, and it is no way to the benefit of the common good.
This would have more to do with the person using the tool than the tool themselves. The quality of the end product is primarily dependent on how skilled the developer are in making a great game, modified by how restrictive their engine is. A $1500 startup cost is not going to be noteworthy in deciding the final price of your game. A 25% royalty would be, so unity wins out there, but if you have something of enough quality to actually get sales, $1500 is cheap.nanicoar wrote: There is a chance that you don't care about them... but there are other reasons for why FOSS tools are to your own benefit. The end product for example is better, cheaper games with genuine inspiration behind them as opposed to AAA titles made for a demographically perfect gamer.
Sure. But I don't need features in 12 months, I need it now. I don't want to wait for a FOSS engine to eventually meet my needs. Right now I use blender for my 3D modeling, and GIMP for my 2d drawing, and both meet my needs and I am happy. Show me a game engine that does, and I'll happily look into it.nanicoar wrote: If we could have an itemized list of all the features you need, such as procedural terrain (I want that too. Planets worth of it. Galaxies.), and developers who would set a price tag on integrating them in convenient ways into e.g. Blender, and somehow skip time in 12 month chunks, everything would be unicorns and sugar giggles.
But when? I don't want to wait around for a feature eventually. I'd much rather use unity now, which has what I need, and make progress on my game, rather than rage against another engine which doesn't have the capabilities I need yet.nanicoar wrote: The past few days I have been contemplating the specifics of how to implement something in code that would put bounties on those features. When we know what the most popular features are they could then be Kickstarted by indie devs looking for work.
With all the money being funneled in this thread, we could probably get every feature we need for commercial production.
If you find we are getting down to the wire you may want to post to /r/oculus. There may be some folks there who aren't regulars here.Korda wrote:if you are in the US it is $1500 - $225 at the full 15% discount (we currently need 3 more people to reach this)
Proprietary software is full of dirty, non-standard hacks. Dirty hacks work, just not forever. It takes a special kind of academic to believe that only software based on immortal principles can succeed, which is why they hardly ever produce anything noteworthy. And write everything in Java. Monstrous Java.Pingles wrote:An ambitious endeavor. And a noble cause.
But when would it be done? And how consistent would a development platform like that be, where every module is crafted by a different team?
I am guessing it would take you YEARS just to select the people who you want to design just the standards between the components.
I'm not trying to devalue your purchasing decision. I'm attempting to discuss our shared situation from a different perspective. However, UDK's 25% on game sales is less than Unity's 30% on asset sales.Mystify wrote:This would have more to do with the person using the tool than the tool themselves. The quality of the end product is primarily dependent on how skilled the developer are in making a great game, modified by how restrictive their engine is. A $1500 startup cost is not going to be noteworthy in deciding the final price of your game. A 25% royalty would be, so unity wins out there, but if you have something of enough quality to actually get sales, $1500 is cheap.
And you will get a better game with genuine inspiration built on a proprietary engine than a cookie cutter game on a FOSS engine.
I really don't see how FOSS helps in regards to these pointsSure. But I don't need features in 12 months, I need it now. I don't want to wait for a FOSS engine to eventually meet my needs. Right now I use blender for my 3D modeling, and GIMP for my 2d drawing, and both meet my needs and I am happy. Show me a game engine that does, and I'll happily look into it.nanicoar wrote: If we could have an itemized list of all the features you need, such as procedural terrain (I want that too. Planets worth of it. Galaxies.), and developers who would set a price tag on integrating them in convenient ways into e.g. Blender, and somehow skip time in 12 month chunks, everything would be unicorns and sugar giggles.But when? I don't want to wait around for a feature eventually. I'd much rather use unity now, which has what I need, and make progress on my game, rather than rage against another engine which doesn't have the capabilities I need yet.nanicoar wrote: The past few days I have been contemplating the specifics of how to implement something in code that would put bounties on those features. When we know what the most popular features are they could then be Kickstarted by indie devs looking for work.
With all the money being funneled in this thread, we could probably get every feature we need for commercial production.
