I can't really say which I would prefer. Having experienced nothing even close to 90 degrees, it's hard for me to imagine what the difference between 95 and 120 would be. I guess software support is important, so if most software only supports up to 90 FOV then 95 seems like a reasonable size - especially if it dramatically increases the wearability of the unit.

The higher the FOV the better, but 90+ is acceptable to me.

For complete immersion, you want all you can get. I've only ever used the 51° HMZ-T1, but people here have said that even at 120-180°, you can still see there are edges. Palmer created a 270° prototype. Any chance of a Kickstarter for that? That would spread the resolution out too far, but would be great with that really hi-res panel Palmer mentioned.

I think PalmerTech's 270 degree prototype used 3 screens in a Eyefinity type setup. It might be difficult to use a single flat screen to provide 3 views due to the optic path needing to be bent (total guess).

Yes, that makes sense. He mentioned it might require a boom mount because of weight.

I think that one important thing that can be done to improve immersion, regardless of the field of view, is to have the limits of the field of view be defined by physical boundaries near the eye, rather than by running out of pixels at the focal distance of the display. Many of the “practical” uses of HMDs want to see every last pixel straight and true, but that leaves the obviously unnatural sense of moving borders out in the distance. If the visible edges are put between the eyes and the optics, it will scan to the brain like a real helmet / glasses / goggles / glasses that occlude the world. This unavoidably will leave display pixels that can’t actually be seen, potentially a fair number of them if you have a generous eye box, but it is probably the right call for immersion.

John Carmack

Are there currently any HMDs out that feel more immersive than traditional 3D displays? Still trying to decide if it's worth investing in one, considering their price is fairly high in comparison to a 3D monitor, which would be my other choice.

@John: An interesting point. I can see the logic, but it seems so tragic to give up pixels and FOV when we have so little to spare.

Keep in mind, also, that the vertical FOV of this thing is also going to be around 90 degrees, which is much taller than most HMDs.

The 270 degree prototype is fun, but just not practical. It is big, heavy, bulky, and you need to render 4 distinct views. Even if the software supports it, the rendering load is massive.

John is absolutely right, as far as cutting off pixels go. There are benefits to having distinct edges for "normal" use, in addition to saving pixels; You get an improved senses of "Coming out of the screen!!!!" that competes well with 3DTVs. For VR use, though, having boundaries does not help with immersion. Had I not spent a lot of time with a Wide5, I might have felt differently, but it really does make a difference! Giving up pixels seems bad now, sure, but displays will only get better.

95 degrees sounds pretty good to me. I think the last prototype I tried was slightly more than that, and it was more than enough. In terms of the vertical, it covered the full FOV. Granted, you could still see the edges on the sides, but it wasn't anything like the tunnel vision of most cheap HMDs. Considering most non-custom software won't even look right at super high FOVs, this is probably the best bet for the majority of people.

@ JohnCarmack: Surely having the view stretch beyond the visible limit is more realistic, as it would be closer to what we see in reality? Although, I guess having a boundary would mean it would seem more like a scuba mask and might provide immersion in that way.

@Palmer: Hey just curious. I know that your kit is not designed for 2D, but what is it like when you view the desktopt? I mean, your eyeballs don't catch on fire - do they? If you needed to go to the desktop for quick little sessions - you can manage, right? Seems like you could close one eye and just move all the windows to one side of the desktop and it would be ok. (well - despite the fact that the task bar and icons are going to be at an uncomfortable viewing angle)

Having the view stretch as far as possible is best, but considering the limitations we are under, better to have a physical boundary (Like a scuba mask) than very clear image borders.

Brantlew, you can definitely manage in 2D mode. I do it all the time for changing video settings and the like. Not too fun, but doable! I keep all the icons for things I access using the HMD near the center of each eye on the desktop so I can navigate to them easily.

Wow! It's amazing the amount of lurkers that subscribed just to post in this thread. I thought I'd be the only one.

BTW, sorry for the pointless post, I just wanted to make you know that more and more people support the project, not just the regular forum users.

Palmer when will this be available? Any pics? Great work.

Will it work with any game?

As you spoke earlier about a FOV comparison:

can you do something like that:
2nd picture on the text:

http://trackingreality.com/2012/02/14/h ... nceptions/

As its easy understandable for people that don't know all the technical terms and formulars if you do it somehow like the others FOV thingies around.

Other nice blogs on this side:
http://trackingreality.com/2012/01/04/h ... s-of-2012/
http://trackingreality.com/2012/02/26/cybersickness/

Hey,
By reading the "A day with an Oculus Rift" Post I got an idea for an Kickstarter bonus:
Maybe Carmack is willing to give vou Autographed Fotos/Cards/whatever.

In my mind that sounds like a nice gimmick ^^

So I won't hijack this thread, but I just wanted to mention that I am attempting to create that stereo driver I've been talking about and plan to add support for this Rift HMD.

Please check my work log thread and continue discussion there if you're interested:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=14970

Just signed up after clicking a link from the iracing.com forums. What a great idea. I've been looking in to a 3 monitor setup for the past half year and was investigating HMDs + Freetrack a couple of months ago. Really interested to see where this is heading; what a great initiative!

Hey Palmer,

One idea for a Kickstarter reward might be to offer fully-assembled FOV2GO Model D viewers. This is just an estimate, but the price of materials and shipping would probably put it into the middle-tier of rewards (in order for a useful amount to still be contributed to the campaign). Since the design of the Oculus Rift feels like an evolution of the FOV2GO, it seems like the software pipeline for displaying proper 3D images across both would be nearly identical. There might be some genuinely useful (although perhaps niche) overlap there, where people who wanted to support the project but couldn't afford the full HMD can still have part of the experience when and if mobile software that supports the Rift starts appearing. If you're not crazy about the prospect of assembling 25-50 FOV2GOs on top of all of the Rift orders, an option may be to offer kits.

A worthwhile low-tier reward might be a pair of anaglyph glasses. While the image quality isn't awesome, it's at least on-topic, inexpensive, and (again) potentially useful. I know I've never picked any up purely because it's just never been convenient. Someone who is just getting into the scene can access a lot of content (YouTube, 3D Vision, lots of legacy stuff) with a decent basic pair.

Anyway, just some thoughts from a first-time poster. The design of the Rift sounds both fantastic (FOV!) and extremely sensible. Coupled with the proposed price and John's hands-on testimonial, it's very easy to be excited about. I'd certainly like Canabalt HD (and any of our future Android projects, as appropriate) to support it and FOV2GO at some point. I can pretty much guarantee that I'll be picking one up as part of the Kickstarter campaign!

Hey Palmer,

Admittedly I haven't had a lot of time to spend with this due to other work commitments but I did manage to squeeze out a few concepts for you. If you like any of these or if you'd like to discuss it further please give me an e-mail denunger@worldworksgames.com (Subject: Oculus) and I'll send over the high resolution files to you. Or you can contact me during normal business hours via phone or Skype (e-mail for info).

If you don't like what I've done, no hard feelings at all Still wishing you the best of luck with this project and really excited for you!

Cool designs. I especially like the RIFT logo (first one on the top-right).

However the look/feel of the "oculus" seems to be at odds with the "rift". They are very different styles. Anyway, sure Palmer will have more feedback, just my 2 cents.

Oculus looks pretty cool. Like an eyeball

I agree, I think the Oculus is great, not so keen on the Rift tho. As said, they are totally different styles... but the thinner Oculus implies greater clarity imho

There's some juxtaposition there between the logos in terms of line weight and style but its really a pretty common treatment when defining distinct brands. Oculus and Rift need to stand on their own, otherwise they become a jumble of muddy mega-logo...lol. Or at least that's the designer ramble you'll hear out of me

And yay! The eyeball in Oculus is reading for everyone! That makes me happy The line darting through the center is an abstraction of the focal plane and or FOV

Rift went through a lot of iteration but it kept coming back to some kind of human form in the negative space creating the rift. In this case, the head is silhouetted in such a way that it feels like we're looking at the back of someones head as they gaze into a wide panorama of image...again, design ramble

Yes Bishop51,
That is what I thought when I saw the top pictures also.
I thought Oculus was the companys Name/Logo and that RIFT was a product made by that company.
I feel the Oculus Logo would be great to represent the company as a whole and would be printed somwhere on all thier products but then each product would also have it'a own name/model, that would also be printed on the product, in this case the RIFT.
You would print somwhere on the unit in a prominent position,using your artwork "RIFT" Than somwhere else on the unit, still using your art work but printed smaller " By Oculus"

Is that what you mean Bishop51 ?

My 2 cents. The Oculus symbol has a nice clean look. At first glance it simply looks like a unique font instead of a picture. Also the O is distinctive and symmetrical and would work as a desktop icon. The Rift is a bit too pictorial and literal for my tastes. I think just a slick font (maybe continuing the motif of the sliced letters) would look good.

It really is amazing! The more demand the better, can't wait to see what the final tally is.



I want to have units shipping in summer, exact dates are still hazy. John Carmack posted a few pictures in his thread, I am pretty bad about taking pictures of works in progress. It will work with many games, but requires fiddling with now-defunct IZ3D drivers, so it is in no way a perfect solution. The ideal solution will be either support by the games themselves, or a new stereo 3D driver like the one Cyberreality is working on.



Thanks! I am glad there are sim racing people who are interested, it seems like a good fit. Most of the people here are FPS players, I think, and flight sim people tend to need higher resolution for reading gauges and the like.



Thanks for the ideas, Bill! Oddly enough, the FOV2GO design was actually an evolution of the Rift design. I have been working on it since last summer, and after making a folding prototype out of foam core, things just went in the right direction. FOV2GO units would definitely be a cool reward! There are other people involved with the FOV2GO project, though. There has been talk of an FOV2O Kickstarter, so maybe that is how things will go down.

Anaglyph glasses are a good idea, too! Would be very cheap to send. I loved the original Canabalt, would be awesome to see that or any your new titles on an HMD! The FOV2GO in particular has so much potential as a platform for simple games.



Sending you an email! I have an idea for tweaking the Rift logo, but the Oculus one is perfect. I seriously cannot imagine a better logo!


As an update, I have been working on both the Rift and the unnamed 270 degree demo unit. Nothing too pretty to look at, but I will be taking pictures on Friday so you can see how ugly the prototyping process is.

I'd love to see some pics of your development units. Keep up the good work Palmer.

Hey Palmer, just wanted to jump on and show my support, I also ended up here from iracing.com.. can't wait to see what comes out!

Mostly a lurker, and ended up here after Carmack's hands on (from his twitter feed, really excited to see he's taking an interest in immersive stereo gaming).

Coming out of the woodwork just to say I would order one in a minute for a 90+ degree FOV, and will be in for the kickstarter.

I would really like the option of an FOV over 95 degrees, and I would probably opt for the built in head tracker since I don't already have one.

Currently my 3d setup is a 22" zalman, and 2d gaming/other stuff is on a dell u2711, so 3d gaming with a greater FOV would be fantastic (obviously an HMD has other significant advantages too!).

I would definitely be up for adding support to my last big game project, and any future games I make.

I would be happy with 90 degrees but now I kinda hope it will be 120 degrees.
If Carmack couuld help with a pre-warped demo for 120 degrees, I bet overtime when we learn how to warp more software, we will wish it was 120 degrees. Cyber seemed happy with the 110 degree sample unit, so that would be cool also.

Great! More software is great.




The horizontal FOV is actually smaller than vertical, I think the current one works out to about 90 horizontal, and about 110 degrees vertical. I would love to make it higher, but it would mean a huge weight increase. I will be making wider FOV lens sets available, though, so the upgrade will be there as an option for the people who want it!

Great, sounds good.
I still think getting the RIFT out as fast as possible,and not just because I wanted one yesterday, but because, as you can see, people all that much faster can start tinkering with current software and writing new software that is warped for the RIFTs optics.

From a selfish, race-sim perspective (heh), a noticeable vertical FOV could at least be 'written off' as constrained view caused by wearing a helmet!

The larger FOV is what got me interested in the Rift. If it's a trade off between either a large FOV and high resolution then I'd prefer one direction is chosen rather than aiming for a middle-ground. The 1280*800 sounds small enough so I would hope that there's a massive FOV available. 120 should be a minimum.

The best think about this HMD is that it will be modular and we will be able to change the optics or the panels (when a better alternative is available) depending on the intended use. For example: considering the weight reduction, I think 90 degrees should be "good enough" for everyday use... but as a developer, I would consider very useful having other additional lenses (the 120 degrees or even the experimental 270 degrees optics) that I can use for research.

Palmer,

What is the current status of this project? I didn't see a website up and unless I'm missing it I have only heard 'June' as a date. I haven't seen any specs, assembly, driver support, etc. details in one reference. Is there a repository?

I have been researching the ST1080 but the lack of reviews falls under the same purview as a game release without a demo. It screams "sale as many as units possible before word gets out!" That endeavor led me to MTBS3D and your Oculus Rift. I was originally planning on getting something for game development within with-in the next month as the ST1080 should be out in quantity by then, but Oculus sounds at the top of the three reasonably priced units right now and better suited for games with head tracking and upgradable to make it useful for development.

Patrick Reddeck

Im happy with 90 degree FOV as a minimum. I mean, this is still double everything else out there at attainable prices. Having the ability to put 120+ degree lenses in would be the icing on the cake.

If Palmer can get this 5" 1080p IPS panel it would be great.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/27/lg-d ... nch-1080p/

I will try to make some 120+ lenses available, but it would not work as the minimum for most people. It is fine if you mount it to a helmet, sure, but pretty heavy with just goggle straps! And actually, assuming that the horizontal FOV is wide enough, it seems like it might even be better to have higher vertical. It lets you see the ground and sky, and that is huge.



No website or repository yet, that is priority #1 right now. Gotta have one up before E3 so people can be pointed there. There is a lot of info spread across a bunch of different threads both old and new, but nothing solid and official.

The status of the project is that the optics design and hardware selection is basically finalized. Assembly and final form factor are still being worked on, though I have several prototype units that you could call finished, so this is pretty far along. Software wise, John Carmack has a demo that works great, and I have a hacked together setup that uses a combo of the IZ3D drivers and Nthusim to get standard commercial games working. If I had the money in my hands right now, I could be shipping in three weeks.



Actually, even "double" is a pretty big underestmation. It is about twice as wide, sure, so if it were the same aspect ratio, it would be 4x the image size. However, it is taller, too! Here is a terrible, "not quite to scale but about right" comparison I made up in MS Paint:





Too small, unfortunately. A 5.6" or larger panel is needed, 6" is about ideal. A 7" panel could work, at the cost of making the HMD a little bit oversized. 7" 1080p panels might be our best hope in the near future, though.


I know I said I would post more pics of my various prototypes, but I had to leave them at the lab last Friday before I had a chance. Here is a consolation picture, an HMD I made attached to an ACH helmet!