st1080 looks impressive with dia 45 fov better than sony hmz-t1 [making sony bulky for extra 6 fov].....st1080 wins hands down

Personally, the mobility factor is a huge selling point. They could have probably increased the FOV, but then you end up with a huge visor like that HMZ-T1. And it seems a lot of people are complaining about the weight on that thing. The Sony is also not very portable, and I am still unsure it will be of any use in a backtop setup. I also like to wear the Vuzix HMD when I exercise on the bike, something I wouldn't even consider with the Sony. So a light-weight, small form-factor opens up a lot of potential uses. There is room for both type of product.

I'm really torn between the two. It's easier to trust a brand like Sony than it is this new company, even though it DOES sound like they have the technical experience to pull it off. At the same time though, the HMZ-T1 is so bulky and looks like it'll be a pain to set up when getting ready to play a game, especially if you use the light shields, which I'd want to do for maximum immersion, but it has the added benefit of 5.1 virtual surround and looks more friendly towards people that have to wear prescription glasses like me. Ultimately, I'm leaning more towards the HMZ-TI, but it's still a tough call.

Ultimately we will have to just wait until these products are all out on the market and just test them out to see how they compare. Each device can and will have pros and cons, so it will entirely depend on the intended usage and what you are willing to live with.

Here's your chance to get some hands-on time.....

http://www.siliconmicrodisplay.com/ces-2012.html

Great, I will be at CES.

i think HMZ-T1 is the ONLY choice as "SMD starting to sell ST1080 to consumers" in December seems remote so far they have a prototype ready only for display....@CES '12......

so 2012 will have a slew of these 'toys' coming up - ok - wait and watch!

2012 may seem like ages away, but CES is only in like 2 months. Not that long to wait. Its also happening *before* Sony claims they will have more stock of the HMZ-T1. Arrgg!!!!

If everything about it is true it seems like it would be good for headtracking. Which was main reason I bought a hmz-t1(though returned). Hmz-t1 you can not move around your head at all with out messing up the display.

i think this Sony HMZ-T1 is made for watching movies from blu-ray etc - not for using it with ps3 even....so movies in 2d and 3d i guess sony 'd be excellent choice...

I'm hoping we see a redesign of the ST1080 sometime soon, which is most likely going to happen, since there's so much wrong with the current model. I'd like a new version with a nose-rest and a friendlier design for people that wear glasses.

the current design just needs to make the eye-pieces wider in length and breadth so much that IPD adj. in not needed at all and we do not feel looking at the screens via 'pin-holes' - also the 'see-through' be dropped and i will grab this ASAP

After looking at their Facebook and Twitter comments, it seems a redesign IS coming, like we all thought. Thankfully, someone brought up whether or not the new design with be compatible with prescription glasses, and their response was pretty positive, so I'm really liking the sound of this device so far. Not sure if I want to go the HMD route just yet, since they all seem to have a glaring problem or two that ruins the immersion factor, but I'll try to remain positive for this one.

well glasses compatible or NOT but definitely not make it "see-through"
but if they price this >usd$700 i will wait for cinemizer OLEDs....
my pref.list

1)ST1080
2)Cinemizer OLED
3)Sony HMZ-T1

EMAIL
----------------------
Today, we are pleased to let our email subscribers be the first to know the price of the ST1080 head mounted display: $799.

We will begin taking pre-orders in December and will announce the date through a separate email newsletter.

The ST1080 is the only product in its category to offer Full HD (1080p or 2 million pixels), mobility through USB power, and 10% transparent displays for an augmented reality viewing experience. And at this price, the ST1080 defines a new standard for performance and affordability.

Additionally, a few weeks ago, we announced that we will be showing the ST1080 at the 2012 International CES. The details of our exhibit can be found on our website. We are very excited to have booth visitors try out the ST1080 and for reviewers to provide detailed reviews through their blogs and websites. We hope you will visit us at our CES booth. If not, please ask your favorite blog or website writers to come visit our booth.

Also, we are announcing that the Display Development Kit (DDK) will be on sold for $8000. DDKs will be ready for pre-order at the same time as the ST1080. The DDK includes two display modules, driver electonrics, GUI control software, register map, and interface hardware.

The price for the ST1080 and the DDK will be go live on our website (www.SiliconMicroDisplay.com) on Thursday 12/8.
------------------

$799... not bad

Sounds good, maybe it will not be vaporware after all

great i received the same mail too informing the price of st1080 as usd$799.....
so they are trying to compete with Sony....

This HMD war is really getting heated up...thanking Sony for starting the war!
it will be interesting to figure out the 'winner'

they will send a separate mail informing the pre-order 'start' date .....

i am really excited about this HMD - a 1080p HMD with portability and HDMI input....i do not mind see-through....i guess a little mod will do that for me.....so happy...now will wait for cinemizer OLED too ...as both are on my shopping list....

still i desire that a 1920x1080 FULL HD OLED HMD with portability and HDMI input....be invented ......as OLED do not have issues with 'viewing angle'...

hope it will not be too far fetched...we already have HD-OLED HMD [sony] and a 1080p LCOS HMD [st1080] so next is what....! hope Samsung is reading this...

I have only tried one HMD (my Vuzix 920VR) so I don't have a lot of experience to draw on. I am curious why many seem resolution-obsessed. At the low FOV that these units have (35-45) is there a significant qualitative difference between 720 and 1080? Are there specific applications where this is critical? Given the choice and with all other things considered equal, I would personally prefer as little as 5 degrees additional FOV instead of the additional resolution. Am I alone in the belief ?

VR Pro WUXGA - [ http://www.vrealities.com/vrprowuxga.html ] clearly shows that 60FOV is achievable in 'glasses' style keeping the form factor portable all the way.....all though it does not accept HDMI

why SMD is not trying to enhance FOV to 60 ... i wonder

Brant, I'd like to have an HMD as a desktop monitor replacement. 720p is okay for gaming, but unacceptable for desktop usage. I actually want to buy three of these and mod them together for a 5760x1080 3DVS HMD. And although 720p is okay for gaming, 1080p is better. Pixels are easily discernible ingame with 720p.

For me it is uncomfortable to use an HMD as a desktop because even at low FOV's it is unnatural to use my eyes instead of my head to view the edges of the screen. Using my eye muscles that much is very tiring after a short while. Maybe you can build up muscle endurance over time and get used to it, but I constantly find myself turning my head to try and focus on different parts of the screen.

It seems like the best way to present a desktop with an HMD is as a projection onto a rectangle in virtual space. That way you can use your head motion just as you normally would to focus on details and avoid the unnatural eye movement. This would also reduce the amount of resolution you need to represent detail because just like in the real-world you can just move your head closer to the region of interest. Your "virtual" screen can be as high a resolution as your graphics memory can handle - but projected and down-sampled onto your low resolution HMD screens. If you need to resolve tiny objects on screen you can just tilt your head and move in a couple inches closer and achieve a 1:1 or better resolution between your HMD screens and the virtual pixels within the view frustum.

Seems like a no-brainer. Is there any software currently out there that can do this type of desktop projection? If not, maybe I'll put it on my ridiculously long TODO list.


Edit: Another way to describe this is that people need high resolutions and multiple monitors so that every piece of the physical screen can be examined closely (using mainly head motions) - but you rarely "take in" all of that resolution as a whole. I have two large high resolution monitors sitting in front of me now, but you know what? I am sitting forward in my chair and focusing at a relatively small region of just one of them while I type. All the rest of the resolution to the sides is wasted at this moment. An HMD (with headtracker) can use the same mechanics but more efficiently because it only has to render what you are looking at. It doesn't have to waste resolution in your peripheral like your monitors do.

I never considered that. I've never used an HMD. I've been waiting years for an affordable HD HMD. I have a 27" 1920x1080 primary monitor and a 24" 1680x1050 monitor in portrait to the left. I barely use my head on the primary monitor, but of course I turn my head to look over at the secondary monitor. I didn't consider how this would work in an HMD. How does Sensics do it? They tile up to twelve displays per eye. Could a triple desktop work, then, on an HMD?



As soon as I read the first part of your post, I thought of headtracking. Is that what you mean? Having a virtual screen larger than the HMD can display, and panning around it with a headtracker?

Yes, that's a good concise way to put it. You want your wall sized display or your super high resolution flexible wrap around screen - just project one into virtual space.

You can evaluate that by testing with the Viewing Distance Calculator :
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/view ... lator.html

Given the parameters presented on the Sony website for the HMZ-T1 (750" screen width seen from 65 feet away), it gives :
- FOV : 51.4°
- Maximum Viewing Distance for HDTV(Fully resolved 1080i; 1920 x 1080) : 112.5 feet

At the specified 65 feet distance you'll be able to see individual pixels if you have a 20/20 vision, even if the resolution of this HMD was 1080p.

It's also the case for the ST1080 (100" at 10 feet) :
- FOV : 45.2°
- Maximum Viewing Distance for HDTV(Fully resolved 1080i; 1920 x 1080) : 15 feet

The visual acuity for someone with 20/20 vision corresponds to an angle of 1 arc minute (1/60°) between two points. For a 51° FOV, you would need a display with a width of approx. 3060 pixels, for a 45° FOV you would need approx. 2700 pixels and approx. 2100 pixels for 35°. We are still quite far from it, and we have even more sensibility to lines than points, so the resolution should even be higher.

Good to know. Your knowledge of optics exceeds that of most here, Fredz. I've heard of the arc minute before, but I still don't understand why "minute" is used. Isn't that a measure of time? SMD says they have a 0.82" 4K microdisplay and are working on 8K.

@Fredz: Yes I agree that there are certainly quantitative and very noticeable differences in current resolution formats and a long way to go with the technology. But how much do those resolution differences improve the VR experience? I would argue that just like rendering technology, resolution improvements are moving into a state of diminishing returns in the context of VR. Ask yourself this. Given the current state of the art consumer hardware (HMZ-T1) - if you could choose just one of the following improvements, which would you choose?

- doubling the number of rendered polygons
- doubling the resolution
- doubling the FOV

Exactly brantlew. Doubling the FOV is the biggest, most immersive improvement out of those.

We were playing VR in high FOV in 320x200 resolution back in the Virtuality days. Sure it was like playing half blind, but it was still more immersive than 800x600 @ 40 degrees. I'd be happy with a lower resolution, higher FOV HMD personally.

regd ST1080 - i am concerned abt one aspect - the viewing-angles [H&V] of their LCoS screens ....

on their site they say " VAN-mode LC technology for superior contrast and viewing angle"

i tried to get more info but unfortunately i'd have to pay to d/l information

Can anybody tell me "VAN-mode LC technology" does it result in higher contrast & viewing-angles[H&V] which their website claims.....

i am afraid if this is not gonna be another 1080p 'Headplay'........

any ideas ?

It depends, for immersion the FOV seems to be the most important factor, Eric Howlett (inventor of LEEP optics) said that 90° was the minimum to feel immersed in a virtual world and to avoid the tunnel effect. He also said that a high FOV in mono was more important than a low FOV in stereo to really feel immersed.

To have the feeling of seeing a "real" world I think the resolution is the most important factor though. When I watch a TV program (particularly sport events) in 1080p HD I really have a better sense of "being there" than with SD (576p where I live).

Anyway at this time it seems impossible to have high FOVs in consumer HMDs, so the better solution for now would probably be to augment resolution.

As for the number of polygons, it's probably not the best indicator for visual realism but it's still progressing at a good pace with no sign of halting in a near future. See here for an interesting post about the evolution of the polycount of characters in 3D games from 1996 to 2011 :
http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/show ... hp?t=23520

I'm not particularly knowledgeable in this field, I'm only very interested in it and I've read a lot. Concerning the "minute" term I guess it's exactly the same than for time, 1 minute is 1/60th of an hour and 1 arc minute is 1/60th of a degree.

Good to know, in an old paper about the ideal HMD the authors wanted a 4000x4000 resolution, seems we may be able to see that in the future.

I don't think the number of polygons has really been a deciding factor of the realism for quite some time. The more important things like bump/normal/diffuse/specular maps and the ability of the graphics processor to stream these efficiently is what's important.
I also don't understand why that question is related to the HMD... since it is just a display, the number of polygons is determined by the computer that you attach it to. I guess the question really is 'is the failing the HMD, or the computer?'

You're missing the point. "Polygon count" is a simple stand-in for something hard to quantify like "photo-realistic rendering". It doesn't relate to HMD's directly but to VR technology in general. A lot of technologies have to come together to create an immersive experience. I'm just trying to say that some of them are further along so you get less for your money with them versus other technologies. That knowledge can help you make better choices.

My real message however is this: "Between the HMZ-T1 and the ST1080, the difference in FOV matters more than the difference in resolution. You get more VR for your money with the Sony."

I get the point. There are other factors that concern me even more with the ST1080 though, like:
1. Looking at the images, it looks like the unit is fixed lenses, which means you can't change the IPD. Since every one has different distances between their eyes, this is a MAJOR failing if not included, since half (at least) won't be able to use it comfortably. Also, this means you need to wear glasses with it... what a pain.
2. The contrast ratio of 100:1 is terrible. That's basically the same as all the other LCD HMD from 5 years ago and it's not good enough for a $800 unit.
3. If using for VR, it will need a light shield for sure.

As for the decision between
- improving the photo-realistic rendering: I think this isn't really the issue these days. Better would be nice, but not what's holding us back
- doubling the resolution: For VR, I think that it will be important, but not essential.
- doubling the FOV: Probably the most important area that needs to be improved for immersion. Mind you, I haven't a 45degree FOR HMD to test this with, only cheap ol' 35deg.

Yes, FOV is the biggest issue right now with consumer VR. Even the Sony, at 51 degrees, still isn't what you would expect from VR. Resolution is not the biggest issue. If you are talking about low res stuff VGA, etc. then that may be too low. But even 720P looks good for the FOV. Now if you are talking about stretching that to 90 degrees+, then maybe its not enough. But if we are dealing with 1080P, then its probably fine. Sure, you might see a pixel or two if you look closely, but it is not holding back a VR experience. The current level of graphics, polygon count, shader operations, etc are not holding anyone back. The low FOV of most headsets *IS* holding VR back. So FOV is certainly the biggest issue, I would say.

st1080 with 45 FOv without IPD and focus adjustments is making me suspect if this is going to be a great HMD.....unless this thing uses miraculous optics....i wonder if the optics will be good enough...

i will wait for reviews from CES '12 ...

My use is head tracked immersive gaming. I was al lset to buy an HMZt1 but the reports I am hearing about front-heaviness and difficulty moving the head have me cocnerned.

The St1080 look liek its much more appropriate for that use. And I actually *prefer* the 10% see through. I don't touch type, but i have a brightly lit keyboard. I will be playing in the dark so that seems perfect. Look straight ahead, ist immersive, look down, I see my KB

I actually see the lack of big headphones builtl in as an advantage as well. Simulated surround has gotnen better but is still nowhere near as good as the real thing. Im putting a real 5.1 speaker set in my play-pod.

anyone going to attend CES'12 ?

@ Cyberqat: 5.1 sound won't follow your head tracking, which is where headphones are better for immersion.

@ ancjob: lets face it, the ST1080 is pretty much vaporware atm. Until they release some actual specs it seems a waste of time speculating what it will have and whether it will be better or worse than the Sony.

The Sony sounds pretty good from what I hear, however, i'm wanting to hear how people get on eliminating the 'sweet spot' issue many are mentioning, where they lose focus on moving their head.

I am. I will be at their booth for sure.

plz palmer do post your review regd :

1)image quality - is it really fabulous as claimed ?

2)virtual screen size,'sweet spot' if any , focusing issues, light-blocking mods if possible with this
since this has fov slightly more than that of z800 - optics quality...if this has 'effortless focus' ?

3)viewing angles , screen if a lot reflective etc

4)audio quality

5)quality of 3D from blu-rays etc , formats supported

6)overall verdict

in short u will be 'Astral projection' of me there at the booth