ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Synexious »

So will the ST1080 have a 3D chip capable of supporting 1080p60 3D? I mean, are those chips available now?

I am going to get both, because the HMZ has a slightly higher FOV, bigger screen size, and a better image, so it will be better for gaming and movies. But the resolution is too low to use as a desktop. The ST1080 is a portable 1920x1080 desktop that fits in a pocket. The first of its kind. With it, I won't need a monitor anymore. Wirelessly connect it to a powerful smartphone, get a laser keyboard or rollup keyboard, and you have a fully functional wearable PC.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Fredz »

Aphradonis wrote:So will the ST1080 have a 3D chip capable of supporting 1080p60 3D?
STB said : "we think our 1080p 3D at 24fps is a mode they don't have so ours should at least give you a unique capability" so it's pretty clear that they don't use that chip. I wonder if they'll support 1080p@30Hz per eye though, that would be a little bit better than 24Hz and it's already possible with current transmission chips (confirmed on Samsung Plasma series 7 and Panasonic VT25).
Aphradonis wrote:I mean, are those chips available now?
No idea about it, they're advertised on Silicon Image website and have been announced on 24 May 2011 when they started sampling, but I don't know how much time it takes before mass production. They're also referenced by Sequoia Technology Ltd as being available for order.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by cybereality »

Well right now it looks like they are limited to 1080P24, but it doesn't exactly sound like the hardware is finalized and in production. Meaning there still is time for them to acquire the new chips with higher bandwidth that support 1080P60. But maybe I'm hoping for too much. Just a few months ago everyone was complaining that there were no HD HMDs even in sight, now we are getting a 1080P headset and are upset the refresh rate isn't enough. One step at a time.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by ancjob »

1)do they plan to release it just like sony did ? or it's just marketing / hype being built for business expansion/whatever ....on website it says " sale to start in December" price ::TBD ?

so it'd be 1st December or in between or 31st December.......who knows......really doubt it

2)are they making those 1080p panels themselves or getting it from kopin - any ideas ?
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by cybereality »

Also, its kind of funny the design looks almost exactly like the Another I's shutter glasses circa 1999:

Image

Fun fact: Those were actually the first shutter glasses I owned!
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by ancjob »

on their facebook page - they plan to make a new announcement on 14-nov 2011...
i really like this HMD more than HMZ-T1...in fact if they remove 'see-through' option completely it becomes better than HMZ-T1...anytime...fov diff of 6 is NOT much to sacrifice considering that we are getting the 1080p resolution which was unheard of! am scared that they do not vanish into thin air after getting our hopes on a high......[remember TDvisor]


as per my preference [high to low priority]
1)ST1080
2)Cinemizer OLED
3)Sony HMZ-T1
let's wait and watch...
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Aeroflux »

You are forgetting 100:1 contrast ratio; or 1200:1 depending on which part of the specifications you believe. Vizio HDTVs get better contrast than that. Hell, my 7 year old LCD PC monitor gets 1000:1 static contrast ratio. I know it's 1080p but you can't expect good image quality with that severe of a drop in contrast. I really hope the specs are wrong, we need more than one headset to choose from. :|
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by ancjob »

Aeroflux wrote:You are forgetting 100:1 contrast ratio; or 1200:1 depending on which part of the specifications you believe. Vizio HDTVs get better contrast than that. Hell, my 7 year old LCD PC monitor gets 1000:1 static contrast ratio. I know it's 1080p but you can't expect good image quality with that severe of a drop in contrast. I really hope the specs are wrong, we need more than one headset to choose from. :|
well 1080p or not - if it gives me better image than headplay with being portable,usb powered and hdmi and immersive at that [fov 45] it still is my choice....

contrast 1200:1 at f/2.8 - i do not know what to make of it.....but i'd wait for reviews hoping someone who has headplay bought it...hope it will meet my expectations.......
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Aeroflux »

F/2.8 is an f-stop setting for a lens...it's the focal length divided by the aperture diameter, and a reduction/increase of light entering the lens directly affects the exposure and field of depth. What I think they are implying is if you reduce the amount of light coming through the optical lens to your eyes, you get a better range of contrast. I could be totally off though--it's been a while since my photography classes.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by cybereality »

Honestly, I think this thing is bogus. At least the TDVisor had actual working prototypes, not just some renders from 3D Studio Max.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Fredz »

cybereality wrote:Well right now it looks like they are limited to 1080P24, but it doesn't exactly sound like the hardware is finalized and in production. Meaning there still is time for them to acquire the new chips with higher bandwidth that support 1080P60.
They say on their website that their first product won't support 300MHz HDMI chips, but that they will support 1080p 3D at 30Hz :
Mike Jin wrote:Tory,
Good questions. Here are my short replies:
1) There is a fundamental trade-off for simple (light-weight) optical designs between FOV and exit pupil size that allows easy access to clear image. We opted for easier viewing over larger FOV that you would literally have to align your eye dead-on. We are exploring some options for next generation products that will expand it further. Check back in a few months.

2) Our current product is not based on the 300Mhz HDMI receiver. It is intended for use with standard 1080p 60 Hz input or 1080p 30Hz 3-D (blu-ray) input. We would certainly keep up with the industry trend in future product lines.

3) Input lag is basically 1 frame (16.7 ms) as we buffer the image for 1 frame to prepare for sequential color display in the next frame.

Mike Jin
CTO - SMD
Source : http://www.siliconmicrodisplay.com/1/po ... l#comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Considering how they are answering all the questions related to their product (HDMI chips, diopter adjustment, FOV, etc.), I don't think it's vapourware. They seem to really know what they are talking about and have been working on this since 2008 it seems. They just didn't want to talk about it before being able to deliver, which sound pretty smart. That's what Sony did too. Now they seem to be in the "potential user feedback phase" to succeed in their product launch.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Synexious »

I think this is real because they are engaging the public directly on Facebook and their website, and they said they'd been operating in stealth mode beforehand. Why do all this if they don't have something to sell?

I also think the HMZ-T1 will be better for gaming and movies, because of better color and the slightly higher FOV, but the ST1080 will be great for a desktop monitor replacement, so I'll get both.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by PalmerTech »

Aphradonis wrote:Why do all this if they don't have something to sell?
To attract investors.

I think they are real, considering that similar headsets are available for less than $15,000 USD. The real question is if they will be able to launch at a low enough price, it seems unlikely; If it was possible to obtain 1080p LCOS panels at a low price, then we would probably see some mini projectors (A much larger market) using them. We don't, though...
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Fredz »

PalmerTech wrote:If it was possible to obtain 1080p LCOS panels at a low price, then we would probably see some mini projectors (A much larger market) using them. We don't, though...
Seems Mike Jin - the actual CTO of Silicon Micro Displays - was previously the CTO of SpatiaLight : http://web.archive.org/web/200712290914 ... t_team.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This company - which now seems defunct - was specialized in manufacturing LCoS micro-displays, which amusingly are the exact same size as the one presented for the ST1080 and for which it owned several patents.
See : http://www.displaymate.com/LCoS_ShootOut_Part_A.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (this was in 2006 it seems).
Resolution : 1920x1080
LCoS Technology : ImagEngine
Panel Contrast Ratio : > 3500
Panel Size : 0.74 inch
etc.

Even more amusing, this company (SpatiaLight) announced a product agreement with Daeyang E&C in 2007 to build the first HMD with full HD resolution : http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 57057.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And Daeyang E&C did already sell HMDs using LCoS technology, as can be seen on this page : http://www.stereo3d.com/hmd.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So I think they have a solid experience in both LCos micro-display manufacturing and HMDs. I suppose they already found investors to produce their displays at an adequate price, else they wouldn't have announced their product. But who knows...
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by ancjob »

well anything above usd$1000 is poop for me - i'd get back to HMZ-T1 and import it from UK...
st1080 is definetely interesting...
just waiting for st1080 if it's real and price <=usd$1000....december is NOT too far...let's wait and watch.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by cybereality »

@Fredz: Thanks man. At least that squashed my fear that the company was totally bogus. Now it at least seems like they have honest plans for a product.

The only question is if they will follow through with these plans and make an actual product you can buy at an affordable price.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by gregzeng »

cybereality wrote:Hopefully these will use the new HDMI chips that support 1080P60 but I feel like that's asking for too much. I guess they could do SBS, interleaved, etc. at 1080P, but it won't be full resolution. They have already said on Facebook that it will not support dual input. Not sure what other options there are unless they go with some proprietary BS.

So an affordable, 1080P, USB powered, see-through HMD. This is going to be EPIC. I just hope the FOV is decent.
Could be USB as per 2.5inch pocket HDDs; 2 USB female sockets to provide enough power.

On the DVI - HDMI ports, there are many eBay converter adapters & cables to bypass these differences. Not very expensive, & easily available.

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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by eqzitara1 »

Seems they are doing certain things that are expensive but cutting it cheap on other things. Like whole new hdmi, portable battery. Then lousy fov/screen size. Makes little sense to me.

Then again I think that bigger screen/fov is what made the hmz-t1 require all that positioning equipment so....
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Fredz »

What's the problem with FOV/screen size ? They intend to have a 45° diag FOV when HMZ-T1 is at 51°, Vuzix at 35° and Carl Zeiss probably around 35°. So they really are in the upper side with their specs.

And do you realize that it's not possible to have higher FOVs without compromizing the weight of an HMD ? And weight on the forehead is precisely the problem that was the most pointed out for the HMZ-T1 (14.8oz, 420g). I don't know if there is a direct correlation between FOV and weight for the HMZ-T1, but if that's the case it's pretty smart to shoot for 6.3oz (180g) for the ST1080.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Okta »

If these twonks gave up their fetish for 0.75 inch displays and made them bigger they could probably cut the weight of the optics by a lot and retain the FOV or easily make it larger with a larger exit pupil for ease of use/comfort.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by ancjob »

Fredz wrote:What's the problem with FOV/screen size ? They intend to have a 45° diag FOV when HMZ-T1 is at 51°, Vuzix at 35° and Carl Zeiss probably around 35°. So they really are in the upper side with their specs.

And do you realize that it's not possible to have higher FOVs without compromizing the weight of an HMD ? And weight on the forehead is precisely the problem that was the most pointed out for the HMZ-T1 (14.8oz, 420g). I don't know if there is a direct correlation between FOV and weight for the HMZ-T1, but if that's the case it's pretty smart to shoot for 6.3oz (180g) for the ST1080.

st1080 looks impressive with dia 45 fov better than sony hmz-t1 [making sony bulky for extra 6 fov].....st1080 wins hands down
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by cybereality »

Personally, the mobility factor is a huge selling point. They could have probably increased the FOV, but then you end up with a huge visor like that HMZ-T1. And it seems a lot of people are complaining about the weight on that thing. The Sony is also not very portable, and I am still unsure it will be of any use in a backtop setup. I also like to wear the Vuzix HMD when I exercise on the bike, something I wouldn't even consider with the Sony. So a light-weight, small form-factor opens up a lot of potential uses. There is room for both type of product.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Osobari »

I'm really torn between the two. It's easier to trust a brand like Sony than it is this new company, even though it DOES sound like they have the technical experience to pull it off. At the same time though, the HMZ-T1 is so bulky and looks like it'll be a pain to set up when getting ready to play a game, especially if you use the light shields, which I'd want to do for maximum immersion, but it has the added benefit of 5.1 virtual surround and looks more friendly towards people that have to wear prescription glasses like me. Ultimately, I'm leaning more towards the HMZ-TI, but it's still a tough call.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by cybereality »

Ultimately we will have to just wait until these products are all out on the market and just test them out to see how they compare. Each device can and will have pros and cons, so it will entirely depend on the intended usage and what you are willing to live with.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by fireslayer26 »

Here's your chance to get some hands-on time.....

http://www.siliconmicrodisplay.com/ces-2012.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by PalmerTech »

Great, I will be at CES.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by ancjob »

fireslayer26 wrote:Here's your chance to get some hands-on time.....

http://www.siliconmicrodisplay.com/ces-2012.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i think HMZ-T1 is the ONLY choice as "SMD starting to sell ST1080 to consumers" in December seems remote so far they have a prototype ready only for display....@CES '12......

so 2012 will have a slew of these 'toys' coming up - ok - wait and watch!
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by cybereality »

2012 may seem like ages away, but CES is only in like 2 months. Not that long to wait. Its also happening *before* Sony claims they will have more stock of the HMZ-T1. Arrgg!!!!
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by eqzitara1 »

If everything about it is true it seems like it would be good for headtracking. Which was main reason I bought a hmz-t1(though returned). Hmz-t1 you can not move around your head at all with out messing up the display.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by ancjob »

eqzitara1 wrote:If everything about it is true it seems like it would be good for headtracking. Which was main reason I bought a hmz-t1(though returned). Hmz-t1 you can not move around your head at all with out messing up the display.

i think this Sony HMZ-T1 is made for watching movies from blu-ray etc - not for using it with ps3 even....so movies in 2d and 3d i guess sony 'd be excellent choice...
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Osobari »

I'm hoping we see a redesign of the ST1080 sometime soon, which is most likely going to happen, since there's so much wrong with the current model. I'd like a new version with a nose-rest and a friendlier design for people that wear glasses.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by ancjob »

Osobari wrote:I'm hoping we see a redesign of the ST1080 sometime soon, which is most likely going to happen, since there's so much wrong with the current model. I'd like a new version with a nose-rest and a friendlier design for people that wear glasses.
the current design just needs to make the eye-pieces wider in length and breadth so much that IPD adj. in not needed at all and we do not feel looking at the screens via 'pin-holes' - also the 'see-through' be dropped and i will grab this ASAP
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Osobari »

After looking at their Facebook and Twitter comments, it seems a redesign IS coming, like we all thought. Thankfully, someone brought up whether or not the new design with be compatible with prescription glasses, and their response was pretty positive, so I'm really liking the sound of this device so far. Not sure if I want to go the HMD route just yet, since they all seem to have a glaring problem or two that ruins the immersion factor, but I'll try to remain positive for this one.
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by ancjob »

Osobari wrote:After looking at their Facebook and Twitter comments, it seems a redesign IS coming, like we all thought. Thankfully, someone brought up whether or not the new design with be compatible with prescription glasses, and their response was pretty positive, so I'm really liking the sound of this device so far. Not sure if I want to go the HMD route just yet, since they all seem to have a glaring problem or two that ruins the immersion factor, but I'll try to remain positive for this one.

well glasses compatible or NOT but definitely not make it "see-through"
but if they price this >usd$700 i will wait for cinemizer OLEDs....
my pref.list

1)ST1080
2)Cinemizer OLED
3)Sony HMZ-T1
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by fraherd »

EMAIL
----------------------
Today, we are pleased to let our email subscribers be the first to know the price of the ST1080 head mounted display: $799.

We will begin taking pre-orders in December and will announce the date through a separate email newsletter.

The ST1080 is the only product in its category to offer Full HD (1080p or 2 million pixels), mobility through USB power, and 10% transparent displays for an augmented reality viewing experience. And at this price, the ST1080 defines a new standard for performance and affordability.

Additionally, a few weeks ago, we announced that we will be showing the ST1080 at the 2012 International CES. The details of our exhibit can be found on our website. We are very excited to have booth visitors try out the ST1080 and for reviewers to provide detailed reviews through their blogs and websites. We hope you will visit us at our CES booth. If not, please ask your favorite blog or website writers to come visit our booth.

Also, we are announcing that the Display Development Kit (DDK) will be on sold for $8000. DDKs will be ready for pre-order at the same time as the ST1080. The DDK includes two display modules, driver electonrics, GUI control software, register map, and interface hardware.

The price for the ST1080 and the DDK will be go live on our website (http://www.SiliconMicroDisplay.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) on Thursday 12/8.
------------------

$799... not bad
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by mAchiNE »

Sounds good, maybe it will not be vaporware after all
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by ancjob »

fraherd wrote:EMAIL
----------------------
Today, we are pleased to let our email subscribers be the first to know the price of the ST1080 head mounted display: $799.

We will begin taking pre-orders in December and will announce the date through a separate email newsletter.

The ST1080 is the only product in its category to offer Full HD (1080p or 2 million pixels), mobility through USB power, and 10% transparent displays for an augmented reality viewing experience. And at this price, the ST1080 defines a new standard for performance and affordability.

Additionally, a few weeks ago, we announced that we will be showing the ST1080 at the 2012 International CES. The details of our exhibit can be found on our website. We are very excited to have booth visitors try out the ST1080 and for reviewers to provide detailed reviews through their blogs and websites. We hope you will visit us at our CES booth. If not, please ask your favorite blog or website writers to come visit our booth.

Also, we are announcing that the Display Development Kit (DDK) will be on sold for $8000. DDKs will be ready for pre-order at the same time as the ST1080. The DDK includes two display modules, driver electonrics, GUI control software, register map, and interface hardware.

The price for the ST1080 and the DDK will be go live on our website (http://www.SiliconMicroDisplay.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) on Thursday 12/8.
------------------

$799... not bad

great i received the same mail too informing the price of st1080 as usd$799.....
so they are trying to compete with Sony....

This HMD war is really getting heated up...thanking Sony for starting the war!
it will be interesting to figure out the 'winner' :D

they will send a separate mail informing the pre-order 'start' date .....

i am really excited about this HMD - a 1080p HMD with portability and HDMI input....i do not mind see-through....i guess a little mod will do that for me.....so happy...now will wait for cinemizer OLED too ...as both are on my shopping list.... :lol:

still i desire that a 1920x1080 FULL HD OLED HMD with portability and HDMI input....be invented ......as OLED do not have issues with 'viewing angle'...

hope it will not be too far fetched...we already have HD-OLED HMD [sony] and a 1080p LCOS HMD [st1080] so next is what....! hope Samsung is reading this... :lol:
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by brantlew »

I have only tried one HMD (my Vuzix 920VR) so I don't have a lot of experience to draw on. I am curious why many seem resolution-obsessed. At the low FOV that these units have (35-45) is there a significant qualitative difference between 720 and 1080? Are there specific applications where this is critical? Given the choice and with all other things considered equal, I would personally prefer as little as 5 degrees additional FOV instead of the additional resolution. Am I alone in the belief ?
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by ancjob »

VR Pro WUXGA - [ http://www.vrealities.com/vrprowuxga.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ] clearly shows that 60FOV is achievable in 'glasses' style keeping the form factor portable all the way.....all though it does not accept HDMI

why SMD is not trying to enhance FOV to 60 ... i wonder
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Re: ST1080, a 1080p consumer HMD.

Post by Synexious »

Brant, I'd like to have an HMD as a desktop monitor replacement. 720p is okay for gaming, but unacceptable for desktop usage. I actually want to buy three of these and mod them together for a 5760x1080 3DVS HMD. And although 720p is okay for gaming, 1080p is better. Pixels are easily discernible ingame with 720p.
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