Both the HMZ-T1 and the ST1080 have higher resolutions, don't they? Could these lenses you have, Palmer, or some other lenses you have or can get/make, be applied to a triple surround HMD? That's what I'm interested in eventually doing.

Yes, they are both much higher resolution. There are several panels coming out next year that will allow me to quadruple my resolution, though, and put it above the HMZ-T1. I am working on making a triple panel version of the PR4, should be a full 270 degree FOV! It is going to be pretty large/heavy, though, so might have to stay a boom mounted display.

Unfortunately, the lenses I am using are not suited to microdisplays. I might have more for you in terms of HMZ-T1 replacement optics come February.

Thats one mean looking turtle! Great work man!

Wow! 270°!!! I'm sure it will be amazing for gaming, at least. How would a triple panel HMD work for desktop use, though? Since I've never used an HMD (although I will in a few days ), I didn't consider, until brantlew mentioned it, that the screens are fixed and one must move the eyes, not the head, to see the screen edges.

That gave me an idea - a boom-mounted HMD swiveling on a pole, with a ring of short treadmills around it. The user puts his eyes against the boom HMD, and grabs a pistol grip or other controller that turns with the HMD. He does not move forward or backward, but rather remains a fixed distance from the center pole, moving in a circle, sidestepping from treadmill to treadmill.

Have you ever considered a nine screen HMD? The center screen would be surrounded all on sides.

It basically won't work for desktop use. It is really hard to comfortably focus on anything outside your middle 90 degrees, so the side panels don't do anything but add extra FOV. I am driving it with 4 cameras in Unity, getting it working on normal PC games is going to be hard.

A nine screen HMD would not be worth it with the displays/optics I am using, I already have a vertical FOV of about 100 degrees.

EDIT: Woops, said 100 degree horizontal, meant 100 degree vertical! Fixed.

Saving my pennies for your first efforts Palmer! Can you possibly set up a newsletter or something to let us know when you're closer to releasing your first rough plans and or hardware?

I think I mentioned this before but I have a lot of experience launching various products and helping others get promotional, branding and infrastructure related materials ready for launch. I'd be more than happy to talk to you and or help you create a little dedicated site for this online. Hell, I'd even consider working for trade! You can check out my main business here www.worldworksgames.com , some video support examples here http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/in ... ges&pgid=9 . I also have secondary business links I'd be happy to provide. denunger@worldworksgames.com

I mentioned in another thread that what we need is a virtual desktop projection application so you can render the desktop onto a rectangle in virtual space. Combined with a head tracker you could render an "insanely" large high resolution screen to interact with or even a curved hemispherical screen.

Does anybody know if there is an existing tool that does this? If not then a basic implementation could probably be worked out relatively easy starting with one of the open-source VNC projects. Basically you would take the "screen scrape" and instead of compressing and transmitting it across a network, you would send it as a texture into the 3D rendering pipeline. (If I remember correctly Windows actually has some sort of special desktop buffer that is optimized for screen grabbing) I'm sure there are a myriad details, but I think that basic design would work. Sounds pretty fun actually, but I'm tied up with another project, so it would be a while before I could get around to this.

Edit: Not exactly what I had in mind but at least it demonstrates that the tech is possible (much more laggy than I would have imagined) Seems to be implemented as a desktop replacement instead of a screen scraper.

@Bishop51: I might make a newsletter at some point, that is a good idea. You can be sure that I will post anything here, though! I don't want to make a site or anything until I have sent out some demo units for feedback, the very last thing I want is to fall into typical overhyping that VR products tend to get. Once I get to the right point, I am sure we could work out some kind of agreement. I am pretty good at setting up basic websites, but my skills only go so far. On a side note, are you experienced with PHP? If so, I could really use your help on a side-project of mine.


@Brantlew: That would be a really impressive tool to have, I have seen a lot of concept art for HMDs that uses the idea, but nothing real.


I want to finalize the physical build and the optics before making any kind of big push. The initial batch of these will probably retail in the several thousand dollar range for military/medical/corporate purchases, but sold at-cost to the people on this forum (Probably a few hundred bucks). Hopefully there will be higher resolution panels available by the end of that phase that would allow for a bigger consumer push. None of the big companies are going to make a helmet style HMD, so I think the niche is definitely there!

@brantlew: There was this software I used years ago called SphereXP (http://www.spheresite.com/ ) that made one huge desktop using DirectX. I remember using it when I first got my VR920 and I could pan around with a P5 data glove. It was actually pretty fun, you should check it out. Didn't realize they updated for Windows 7, I want to play with this again.

I see. Perhaps, though, having three displays would enhance brantlew's idea of panning around a virtual desktop, by allowing you to see what is off to the sides before you actually pan the center of your vision over to it.

Four virtual cameras and three screens? I thought three screens would be perfect for 3D Vision Surround.

Ah, yes! I remember playing with the trial of it in high school, 2007, I think. I stopped using it because it was a paid program at the time, and I didn't think it was functional enough for me to use it as a replacement for the traditional desktop. It looks perfect for an HMD, though, and they've probably added features in the past four years. Plus, it's now freeware.

Well almost. It's perfect for something like the Sony, but if we are talking about a really high FOV then you don't want to have any tools on the edge of the screen or they will be practically unusable. From the screenshots I see there is still a taskbar on the bottom that would need to be dealt with. The desktop we are talking about has to be 100% projected without any front-plane elements. In fact the more I think about it, we are probably talking about an entirely new shell that never transitions into a traditional 2D desktop so that you can stay wearing your HMD for the entire session.

It could be good to have the task bar always in reach at the bottom, instead of having to look down for it.

@PalmerTech: love the look of that HMD. Beautiful big lenses and looks very immersive. Especially with that source material

The system really looks great Palmer, glad to see it's all coming along nicely.

Just to be clear, we're not recieving the viewmaster at the end of the video right? Sorry, I couldn't resist, but man it looks amazing, just hard to imagine how much more immersive it is when you have your own eyes in the device. Uhh, your device, not the viewmaster

Can't wait!!

PalmerTech, that's so fantastic! consumer level HMD will have better future with your work. Hope that after you succeed with your final prototype with great resolution, you will start a business and sell your HMD for all average VR enthusiasts. I'd love to wait for next some few years to be able to buy your product and hope the price will below $1000.

Looking very very nice Palmer, can't wait to get my hands one one at some point! (even if I have to make it myself off your plans)
Also this High resoloution panel you are talking of sounds promising! with that this setup will blow everything else available atm out of the water....



what you really want is a desktop with the "task bar" in the center of the screen

Nice work!

I know how much time and effort your current revision represents as I've also been working on a design for a long time.

Your design and mine are similar but there are some defining differences.

Unfortunately I've been very tied up and my last revision has been sitting but when I have a bit more time (soon I hope) I may come back and do some posts for contrast and comparison.

BTW: Good job on the lenses. A hint I learned in my early revisions before moving away from glass... cheap (<$10) 10x 75mm macro lenses off ebay (non-green glass) are really just 75mm dia, 100mm fl plano convex and are just as good as any much more expensive lens you might get from Thorlabs, Edmund etc. Also these lenses cut surprisingly well in a wet tile saw.

Thanks! I would love to see your design, hope you find some time. Even some quick pics with a basic description would be awesome. Most HMDs in the past decade rely on microdisplays, so I am glad to know someone else is working with larger ones.

Thanks for the tip on macro lenses! I don't like working with glass if I can help it, but I will probably pick up a few to play around with. I am rebuilding my Fakespace Boom 3C with all new optics and displays, might be helpful for that project.

PalmerTech was nice enough to send me the PR4 prototype for review. I just got to check it out tonight. This this is amazing!



This is the first time I actually felt like I was using a serious virtual reality device and not just looking at a laptop screen through a toilet paper roll. The FOV is HUGE! This is great. The immersion is just wild, there were a few moments where I was getting sucked into the game. Not 100% perfect, but the closest I have seen to real VR immersion, and it doesn't even have a headtracker!

In terms of vertical FOV, it was more than sufficient, and I don't think going further would matter. The horizontal FOV could still be larger, but it seems to cover at the full stereoscopic overlap. It seems there was still even some space on the side that the optics covered but there was no screen. So maybe with a wider screen it could go further. Even so, it was massively massive. Totally took a crap on all the 30 degree junk we've had on the consumer market. Even the Sony is not looking so hot anymore.

In terms of resolution, it seemed decent. I believe the panel was 800x600 or something close to that. I got the best results from that resolution anyhow. With the magnification so high, you could see individual pixels, but it wasn't too bad. The display at least looked fairly crisp in the center, and it blurred as it reached the edges. Certainly good enough to play a game, even if reading the health/bullet-count was problematic. Maybe not as sharp as the Sony, but way better than the 1200VR. Another issue was the aspect-ratio needed to be in a strange format (I think 4:3 half width but NOT squished). There is not really any software available that does this. I could play games with the IZ3D driver in SBS mode, but the aspect ratio was a little off. In the Stereoscopic Player I could set the right aspect ratio, but then there were huge black bars, which killed the immersion.

I did an unboxing video, and will probably take another quick video showing the display quality. Will have to upload for tomorrow. Will post more thoughts soon. Please, ask questions.

I'm jealous Cyber. Curious to hear more of your gaming reports. Is it impossible to use as a desktop?

Seems like you could easily use your Vuzix mouse emulator without any hassle. Just set the PR2 as the desktop and the Vuzix as a second screen just to power the tracker. Then tape the glasses on top of the helmet and you've got a quick and dirty solution.

Maybe you could have a look at http://widescreengamingforum.com/ for your aspect ratio problem, I don't know if it'll apply but there are a lot of discussions about anamorphic rendering in games there. Also Nthusim may be an option too. Can't wait to see the review...

The helmet looks great Palmer. Haven't seen that yet - just your handheld version. What is it? Looks super comfy - can you confirm Cyber?

That looks awesome. PalmerTech, what is the head mount made from?

Cyber, whats it like playing Left4Dead?

The horizontal FOV can definitely be wider, right now it is somewhere around 110 degrees. One of my (many) current projects is making a tiled HMD, my bench unit pushes past 270 degree horizontal FOV, makes it impossible to see the edges of the screen, even when turning your eyes all the way to the edges! The resolution is pretty bad in the periphery, but that is fine. Our real peripheral vision is crap, too! I won't have a prototype till the end of February, most likely.

The panel is actually 1280x800, but 800X600 can give better results for consumer games in SBS mode. Another tip, Cyber: I usually put a foam light blocker around the lenses, but I did not have enough spare foam lying around. Trying playing in the dark, or perhaps taping strips of black paper to the sides of the main unit.

The head mount comes from a Visionics LVES. However, the LVES mount is made by taking two of those dental headgear bands, cutting off the bands from one of them, and riveting them to the other. Easy and relatively cheap to duplicate! I have another mount design that I am working with, but it is currently being used with the wireless PR4 prototype.

Absolutely jealous!

Really proud of you Palmer both for getting this through to a very workable prototype and for sending one off to the most deserving VR enthusiast here.

I cannot wait to get my hands on one of these. We'll all be well ahead of the painfully slow consumer market curve with a Palmer on our heads! Anything I can do to help please let me know.

Awesome work Palmer! Very excited about your work. Looking forward to future incarnations! (already saving my money to buy a PalmerVR helmet! LOL)

Saw this. Looks pretty awesome.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Visionics-LVES- ... 0365360973

I was thinking again on how I might help and started thinking in terms of branding (can't help it, product design, marketing and packaging is what I do all day). So to that end, I spent a bit of time this afternoon building a front plate logo for your PR4 If you want to use it feel free to get in touch and I'll get you a direct download to the high res version. I thought you could print a few off and stick it to the faceplate of your demo rigs for a nice finishing touch

Oh and no worries if you don't like it or don't want to use it Palmer, I've got a pretty thick skin It was fun to do during my break and maybe it will help keep you inspired as you move forward

Click to embiggen!

If Palmer can come out with better optics, comfortable head mount and higher FOV for HMZ-T1, I'll be the first in the queue.

I need this HMD for simracing

Here is a 3D video of the PR4 HMD:



Its hard to tell in the video, but the FOV is massive. Easily over 90 degrees, but I am not sure exactly how big. Really a great kit.

How much does Palmer think these will cost?

drooool...Stop torturing us poor VR-less fools!

OMG, this is awesome. Is there any chance to make few of these for forum members?
How much it will possibly cost?

if it will be less than 1k usd count me in!

Just amazing, thanks for the video Cyber, also would have to say the prototype couldn't go to a better deserving member.

Keep it up Palmer, your gear has such immersion, and had to believe but your gear is only going to get better as the technology improves. It's just really great to see an idea come to fruition.

Price it right and you know all the forum members here will buy it! Except maybe Ancjob..... lol

I don't care what Sony, Vuzix, or whomever has in store for 2012. These are the only HMD's that I am saving my money for. Cyber, I think you are ruined now. You'll never be able to wear another headset without comparison to these.

I love the look of those big lenses.