emagin z800 and latest nvidia video cards ....

Post by **ancjob** » Sun May 22, 2011 5:19 pm

Guys

guys i know there are old dell xps laptops with geforce 6800 / 7800 cards selling for usd 400-900 but i want laptop with latest nvidia cards that work with z800....

i read reviews of dell alienware with nvidia geforce 280 SLI cards but not sure if z800 will work with this...

the laptop is pricey...so do not to gamble...need advice....

emagin website does not say anything however they have nvidia drivers for win/vista 32/64 bit here :
http://www.3dvisor.com/support/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

has anybody tried the z800 to work with nvidia geforce 280 SLI enabled laptops for gaming in 3D ?

what 'Latest' Nvidia cards are CONFIRMED to have worked with z800 in true flicker-free 3D - any list of those available ?

plz advise...usd 2000 is a lot to gamble for me...

Post by **cybereality** » Sun May 22, 2011 8:24 pm

Nothing has changed in the past 5 years. Nvidia dropped support for all types of hardware, including HMDs like the Z800, in order to promote their own brand of 3D glasses. I don't believe there was ever an Nvidia driver for 8800 GTX or above, or Windows Vista/7, that works with any HMD. And I doubt Nvidia will re-enable support anytime soon. Not sure why the eMagin site has those drivers listed, unless somehow it works with that one particular driver version but that seems unlikely. Surely someone here would have tried it and posted something. But, you never know. Maybe you should try emailing eMagin support and asking for a straight answer. Or maybe there is a member here with a modern computer and a Z800 who can test it...

Post by **ancjob** » Sun May 22, 2011 11:58 pm

cybereality wrote:Nothing has changed in the past 5 years. Nvidia dropped support for all types of hardware, including HMDs like the Z800, in order to promote their own brand of 3D glasses. I don't believe there was ever an Nvidia driver for 8800 GTX or above, or Windows Vista/7, that works with any HMD. And I doubt Nvidia will re-enable support anytime soon. Not sure why the eMagin site has those drivers listed, unless somehow it works with that one particular driver version but that seems unlikely. Surely someone here would have tried it and posted something. But, you never know. Maybe you should try emailing eMagin support and asking for a straight answer. Or maybe there is a member here with a modern computer and a Z800 who can test it...

i have two laptops and two desktops but they are not with any AGP whatsoever...just the intel graphics which are crap for even 'light' gaming and z800 is in BOX gathering dust...

i am fascinated with 3d gaming but the modern laptops cost a lot ....

so i guess i go for used laptops with cards supporting z800 ....well usd 300-700 is not that much if it revives z800

too bad i use z800 for watching movies but most of the time - headplay does that job very well - z800 keeps sleeping in the box ....

Post by **mAchiNE** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:36 pm

Just a bump to this thread to see if anyone has ever got a Z800 working on anything other than old Nvidia cards? is there any z800 support in iz3d drivers or anything like that?

Post by **WiredEarp** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:54 am

Ok, the deal is, nvidia old school 3D definitely doesn't work with anything beyond a 7900 OOTB. You can apparently get it going on an 8800 with some hacking.

Nvidia 3D Vision does not support the Z800.

Apparently, IZ3D has a shutter mode which you can use with a late ROM Z800, (indeed I remember using this to play ARMA years back), but it does not seem to exist in the latest drivers I recently downloaded (unless they have renamed it?). I'm just trying to figure out why now, and then I'll plug in my Z800 and see if we can determine once and for all if its possible to use a Z800 on a modern PC and vidcard.

Post by **pbjr** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:33 pm

Hello, thanks for this thread. I just recently dug out my z800's and purchased the latest firmware from emagin. I've been searching on how to use them again with newer cards. Is iZ3D the only option?

Post by **PalmerTech** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:29 pm

Yup, pretty much.

IZ3D seems to be out of business, too, their forums are dead, the staff don't respond to support tickets, new driver purchases don't get activated, and there have been no updates since summer.

You can also purchase a dual-input upgrade board for $650 from TekGear.

Post by **mAchiNE** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:48 pm

pbjr wrote:Hello, thanks for this thread. I just recently dug out my z800's and purchased the latest firmware from emagin. I've been searching on how to use them again with newer cards. Is iZ3D the only option?

Really you have to purchase new firmware?!

That is a new low in customer service

Post by **mAchiNE** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:53 pm

PalmerTech wrote:Yup, pretty much. IZ3D seems to be out of business, too, their forums are dead, the staff don't respond to support tickets, new driver purchases don't get activated, and there have been no updates since summer.

You can also purchase a dual-input upgrade board for $650 from TekGear.

But in order to use dual input (other than for Side by Side Video) you still need to use the iZ3D driver don't you? makes the $650 purchase seem a but worthless if iZ3d is going out of business, I guess what is needed to revive the Z800 is a HDMI 1.4 adapter, I suppose you could get the HDMI 1.4 splitting device then run the 2 outputs to two HDMI to VGA adapters and then into the Z800 dual-input upgrade board but that seems like a hell of an expensive way to get 800x600 3D HMD

So I guess the Z800 is pretty much dead, still limited to old PC's running old Nvidia drivers, not so good for modern VR backtop system, Its a shame because I always wanted one and the over all design does look to be the best for a compact portable PC powered HMD just the resolution is getting a bit low by todays standard but I could live with that if the 3D worked out of the box on modern hardware

Post by **cybereality** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:11 pm

I've purchased new licenses for IZ3D recently when I got my new laptop. Their automated system still functions. Its just that if you run into a problem, there is no one to fix it. But certainly the software is still useful for older or even a lot of current games. But I do agree, it doesn't look like there will be further support.

Post by **PalmerTech** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:41 am

mAchiNE wrote:Really you have to purchase new firmware?!
That is a new low in customer service

The firmware comes on a small chip you have to actually install inside the Z800 control box, so I don't think covering the cost is too evil.

And the TriDef Ignition 3D drivers also support dual output, and they seem to still be going very strong. Good driver, too.

@Cyber: Glad to hear the automated system is still working. I guess only the people who have problems complain, rarely do people post to say "Everything went exactly as planned on my end!"

Post by **mAchiNE** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:03 am

PalmerTech wrote:
mAchiNE wrote:Really you have to purchase new firmware?!
That is a new low in customer service
The firmware comes on a small chip you have to actually install inside the Z800 control box, so I don't think covering the cost is too evil.

And the TriDef Ignition 3D drivers also support dual output, and they seem to still be going very strong. Good driver, too.

@Cyber: Glad to hear the automated system is still working. I guess only the people who have problems complain, rarely do people post to say "Everything went exactly as planned on my end!"

Oh that makes sense, I thought it was just a normal flash update not a hardware update.
Well its good to hear that the TriDef drivers support dual output, I don't see them disappearing anytime soon as they are the main driver support for 3D gaming on ATi cards, especially if iZ3d are gone, still the Z800 is expensive enough as it is for what it is (even secondhand) so adding $650 worth of dual input upgrade plus another $50 for the TriDef driver makes for one hell of an expensive HMD when the Sony is only $800 (plus driver $50)

and not to mention you pay $650 for the privilege of dual input on the z800 but the dual input control board also disables the use of the built in head tracker which is a bit of a downside on such an expensive "upgrade"

Post by **WiredEarp** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:54 pm

Gentlemen, it seems we and the rest of the world have been totally misled!!!!

I have just successfully managed to get my Z800 going with 3D Vision and it works PERFECTLY, running on an i7 with a GTX580 videocard!

I am STUNNED. This is HUGE. How come eMagin don't tell everyone this? They could have sold a crapload of Z800's! Well, maybe not at their 'new' price, but still!

I will post up in a few hours exactly what I needed to do (it wasn't anything tricky)...

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:41 pm

Wow! Please share.

Post by **PalmerTech** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:50 pm

I am really, really excited. Too bad I sold my first Z800, but I have two left!

Would love to make them relevant again.

Post by **pbjr** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:10 pm

YEAH!! Xmas comes early!!!

Post by **ancjob** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:26 am

PalmerTech wrote:I am really, really excited. Too bad I sold my first Z800, but I have two left! Would love to make them relevant again.

congrats palmer - you good a great price for your z800 - usd$1975 - a new record set on ebay usa - lucky you

for the first time i have seen a 'used' z800 in 'new' condition being sold for more than the price of new 'unused' [vrealities-usd$1649 , emagin-usd$1799] - unheard of really

z800 still sells like crazy for the fan following it has......or may be Jesus is smiling on you

Post by **mAchiNE** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:41 am

cybereality wrote:Wow! Please share.

He's probably too busy playing games in 3D on his Z800!

This is amazing news, wish I had one now...

Post by **ancjob** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:27 am

WiredEarp wrote:Gentlemen, it seems we and the rest of the world have been totally misled!!!!

I have just successfully managed to get my Z800 going with 3D Vision and it works PERFECTLY, running on an i7 with a GTX580 videocard!

I am STUNNED. This is HUGE. How come eMagin don't tell everyone this? They could have sold a crapload of Z800's! Well, maybe not at their 'new' price, but still!

I will post up in a few hours exactly what I needed to do (it wasn't anything tricky)...

can it also work with asrock ion 3D with apu as GT218[ion2 nvidia GPU]
never installed 3D vision but did your setup work with 3D vision or was that graphic card that made it work ?

Post by **WiredEarp** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:11 am

Ok guys, here is the deal. Sorry for the delay, christmas stuff to do and all! Anyway, I am able to use my Z800 without any problems using 3D Vision (and I didn't need to do anything special to do it). I installed iz3d, and was just about to set that up, when I realised I needed to deactivate 3D Vision (because I normally play on my Alienware 23" 3D monitor). So, I went into the 3D Vision setup, and noticed that I had a new option 'Generic CRT display'. I choose this, and then tested using Nvidias test app, and it works perfectly! So, I loaded up Skyrim and played happily for about 30 minutes in full 3D, no eye swapping or anything like that. The question is, if this works so smoothly, WHY has eMagin not mentioned this anywhere? Their marketing people must be idiots to the nth degree... Nowhere in their guides etc does it mention a compatibility with 3D Vision, and the general consensus on the net until now is that the z800 only works with iZ3D and old Nvidia drivers.

Anyhow, here is my setup and how I am using it - hopefully another z800 user will be able to confirm. I'd like to mention that I do have the upgraded BIOS on my Z800 (paid like $100 a couple of years back) so that may have something to do with it.

Im running an i7, GTX580, with nVidia 285.62 drivers.

First, you need to set up the Z800 to be the MAIN monitor in your display driver setup. I do not believe this will work unless you do (if someone gets it working otherwise, let me know).

display config.jpg

Then, in your 3D Vision drivers, you should have new options:

3d vision config.jpg

Choose 'Generic CRT display'.

Then, you can run a test to confirm 3D is working:

3d test config.jpg

And you should of course see something like this, but in 3D!

3d vision test.jpg

Thats it, you're done. Nothing to it! To use, just start the game, and you can press the 3D Vision dongle button to toggle stereoscopic on and off. I have assume that pretty much every 3d Vision game is now playable with a Z800 (providing it can do 800x600).

Those under 32 bit Windows can probably use Labtool to enable the Z800's gyro tracker, but for me I need a 64 bit Z800 motion tracker driver now as Labtool doesn't work in 64 bit. I'm looking into using GlovePIE for this. I hope some of the other Z800 users are able to get their headsets going using this method and can confirm it!

@ ancjob: it was the 3D Vision that makes it work - so I am quite hopeful this might be possible on older videocards. I'll try to do some experiments this week to test if it will work on a GTX460...

@ PalmerTech Congratulations for getting such an awesome price on your Z800!!!

Awesome to see how much you got for it!

Post by **ancjob** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:26 am

ancjob wrote:
PalmerTech wrote:I am really, really excited. Too bad I sold my first Z800, but I have two left! Would love to make them relevant again.
congrats palmer - you good a great price for your z800 - usd$1975 - a new record set on ebay usa - lucky you

for the first time i have seen a 'used' z800 in 'new' condition being sold for more than the price of new 'unused' [vrealities-usd$1649 , emagin-usd$1799] - unheard of really

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emagin-Z800-Vir ... 4ab1db55c1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

z800 still sells like crazy for the fan following it has......or may be Jesus is smiling on you

OOOPs ! what happened - same listing , no bidding buy it now for usd$1750 [refer here ebay item id :320815452333 ]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320815452333?ss ... 1423.l2649" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

any takers for usd$1750 - may be palmer is selling his second z800 too......knows Jesus is smiling on him

good luck palmer

Post by **PalmerTech** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:24 pm

Hah, I made a second chance offer to the next highest bidder. Not sure why everyone can see that link.

@WiredEarp: Wow, that is amazing! I wish I was around my desktop so I could try it out myself, but I probably won't be until after Christmas.

So, how are modern games like Skyrim on the Z800?

Post by **pbjr** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:46 pm

Thank you WiredEarp!!

I'm up and running!

Alienware M11x R3 Notebook
Display Port to VGA adapter
Z800 Set as Primary (Only works this way for me too)
Windows 7 x86
3D Vision Emulator

How can I calibrate the Z800? The Nvidia Calibration is long gone from what I've read.

Thanks again!! This will keep me busy while I wait for my Sony 3D Viewer.

Post by **WiredEarp** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:48 pm

Wicked, glad to hear that pbjr!

I believe you have the update Z800 ROM as well, is that correct?

By calibration, do you mean the colour and scan adjustments etc that you can make from the old 3D Z800 utility? If so, I don't know how to access these currently as the old utility will not run under 64 bit for me. I'll try and take a look at the sdk sometime over the next week and see if theres any way to use it under 64 bits directly...

Post by **pbjr** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:47 pm

WiredEarp wrote:Wicked, glad to hear that pbjr!

I believe you have the update Z800 ROM as well, is that correct?

By calibration, do you mean the colour and scan adjustments etc that you can make from the old 3D Z800 utility? If so, I don't know how to access these currently as the old utility will not run under 64 bit for me. I'll try and take a look at the sdk sometime over the next week and see if theres any way to use it under 64 bits directly...

Yes, I have the updated ROM ($32 shipped). I could pop in the old ROM to see if the new ROM is really needed.

For calibration, Nvidia had a limited calibration wizard that helped you set brightness and gamma if I recall. (found a link http://www.techtree.com/techtree/jsp/ar ... cat_id=584)

I have used AVS 709 for my HT. Should I give that a try or can anyone recommend something else?

Post by **msm903** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:26 pm

pbjr wrote:
WiredEarp wrote:Wicked, glad to hear that pbjr!

I believe you have the update Z800 ROM as well, is that correct?

By calibration, do you mean the colour and scan adjustments etc that you can make from the old 3D Z800 utility? If so, I don't know how to access these currently as the old utility will not run under 64 bit for me. I'll try and take a look at the sdk sometime over the next week and see if theres any way to use it under 64 bits directly...
Yes, I have the updated ROM ($32 shipped). I could pop in the old ROM to see if the new ROM is really needed.

For calibration, Nvidia had a limited calibration wizard that helped you set brightness and gamma if I recall. (found a link http://www.techtree.com/techtree/jsp/ar ... cat_id=584)

I have used AVS 709 for my HT. Should I give that a try or can anyone recommend something else?

Where did you purchase the ROM upgrade from? I don't see it on their webpage anymore.

Post by **pbjr** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:36 pm

msm903 wrote:Where did you purchase the ROM upgrade from? I don't see it on their webpage anymore.

You have to email them. Contact Carol at cmiller@emagin.com.

Post by **ancjob** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:21 pm

what advantage is that using z800 with 3d vision - you have to play at low settings on 800x600...

if 3D vision is accessible then i'd prefer a 3D vision enabled monitor with 3D vision glasses to play on using high settings and optimum display of course cpu has to have great power to play that way...but playing on low settings on 800x600 just not ok - using 3d vision glasses with optimal settings with powerful cpu takes te game to new level with superb 3d via 3d vision from nvidia...seriously z800 from that perspective is garbage...

Post by **PalmerTech** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:24 pm

Why would you have to play on low settings? If anything, the lower resolution would allow you to bump the settings way up, when compared to a 1080p 3D monitor. For example, your Ion based HTPC would never be able to handle playing games in 1080p 3D at decent settings!

Besides, a 3D monitor is not portable, nor does it have any headtracking.

Post by **WiredEarp** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:29 pm

Looks like that might be the only way, you used to be able to buy it direct from their website, but looks like you cant even buy the Z800 itself that way anymore.

Post by **ancjob** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:36 pm

PalmerTech wrote:Why would you have to play on low settings? If anything, the lower resolution would allow you to bump the settings way up, when compared to a 1080p 3D monitor. For example, your Ion based HTPC would never be able to handle playing games in 1080p 3D at decent settings!

Besides, a 3D monitor is not portable, nor does it have any headtracking.

well i have read that 3D using 3D vision is the best with high end alienware laptops with 3D screens - or you can ise BIG 3D vision enabled monitors for more immersion , people are using head tracker as well - z800 cannot even come in close [read reviews on amazon usa abt z800 there are horror stories galore] - need i say much !

HTPCs like asrock ion 3D are not meant for gaming at all....they are made for streaming movies to big screen...that's it

WiredEarp wrote:Looks like that might be the only way, you used to be able to buy it direct from their website, but looks like you cant even buy the Z800 itself that way anymore.

you can buy it from vrealities for usd$1649 + shipping....but who cares...i'd say z800 for usd$600-700 is great to have , anything higher than that z800 not worth that much better options galore!

if i were to invest usd$1000+ i'd opt for sony anytime over z800....without a wink

Post by **PalmerTech** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:37 pm

Head tracking with a laptop screen is very, very different than head tracking with an HMD. Not even close, realism wise.

Post by **ancjob** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:48 pm

PalmerTech wrote:Head tracking with a laptop screen is very, very different than head tracking with an HMD. Not even close, realism wise.

there is no HMD which is the ultimate - still i wish we have a headset which allows us to play 1080p natively using the built-in head tracker - headset like xsight are the ones but they cost a fortune....offer a true VR gaming

refer here : http://www.vrealities.com/xsight.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i do not think we have any HMD like that above for usd$ < 1000 yet...will be several years before we have one like xsight for <usd$800 that's when you can enjoy gaming at it's best

Post by **WiredEarp** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:01 pm

Yeah i'd LOVE a high res, high FOV (>120 degree) HMD.

I have 3D Vision @ 1080, and Z800 @ 800x600. I am quite surprised at how clear things are in 800x600 in Skyrim. Very clear, even with text and stuff like that. I haven't tried Black Shark yet - I think its in applications like this (sims) that you can notice the benefit of higher resolution. Its mainly when you want to read the gauges etc, without having to move your head closer - the higher resolution helps here. For sims, a multi 3D monitor setup with TrackIR MAY be better for these reasons (although, the HMZ might be the best of both worlds).

For games that dont require reading stuff however (such as Left 4 Dead) then 800x600 is fine, looks great and I can see clearly enough to shoot things from quite a distance. I would happily keep 800x600 and gain greater FOV, than go to higher res with this FOV.

Post by **ancjob** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:14 am

ancjob wrote:
ancjob wrote:
PalmerTech wrote:I am really, really excited. Too bad I sold my first Z800, but I have two left! Would love to make them relevant again.
congrats palmer - you good a great price for your z800 - usd$1975 - a new record set on ebay usa - lucky you

for the first time i have seen a 'used' z800 in 'new' condition being sold for more than the price of new 'unused' [vrealities-usd$1649 , emagin-usd$1799] - unheard of really

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emagin-Z800-Vir ... 4ab1db55c1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

z800 still sells like crazy for the fan following it has......or may be Jesus is smiling on you
OOOPs ! what happened - same listing , no bidding buy it now for usd$1750 [refer here ebay item id :320815452333 ]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320815452333?ss ... 1423.l2649" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

any takers for usd$1750 - may be palmer is selling his second z800 too......knows Jesus is smiling on him good luck palmer

wow ! another z800 for usd$1000 - palmer has truckload of z800s.....

too bad my usd$1000 is reserved for sony uk pre-order....

refer here : http://www.ebay.com/itm/320816932604?ss ... 2649#rpdId" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PalmerTech** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:39 am

It is another second chance offer, the first one did not respond. Still just the same two.

Post by **mAchiNE** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:56 pm

Palmer, if the sale keeps falling through I could be interested for USD $500, I probably shouldn't but I could be tempted

Hopefully for you though, it doesn't get to that...

Post by **WiredEarp** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:56 pm

And if it gets down to $300, I'll buy it!

~

Haha, I wish I could find another deal like my Z800. US$200 cos it was 'broken'. IE, a cable was loose

. If only it didn't have the dead pixels on one screen I'd try and get a decent price for it!

Post by **ancjob** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:46 am

i do respect z800 for it's optics so for optics sake alone [image is crap,low contrast] i can pay you usd$700 inclusive of shipping to INDIA

hope you get the price you want for your z800 - good luck palmer

Post by **fragilem17** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:44 am

Hi there,

Awaiting the Oculus Rift, i got the old Z800 out of the closet.
i'm running W7 64bit on a GTX 550 ti with the latest 310.9 drivers

When i follow your instructions WiredEarp, I don't get the 3D vision option to select a regular lcd monitor.
i have to go through some wizard when i check the "Enable 3D stereo" and it appears the wizard doesn't run on the low resolution of the Z800 or something.
when i pass through the wizard by setting my big monitor as the main display and then switch it to the z800 there still is no dropdown. the 3D test shows the nvidia logo moving back and forth in red and blue.

I don't have the new rom (would they still ship it?) can you confirm the rom is needed? would it help to try and find the (by now) old drivers you used and install those?

thanks for any feedback!