Rockwell Collins Proview HMD, anybody want to dual-buy?

[PalmerTech]

VistaTek had several different revisions before the company went bankrupt, and being that it was in 1998, there is very little concrete information on the internet to help. But by looking around, I have narrowed it down to one of these:

http://www.mindflux.com.au/products/keo/pv60.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.mindflux.com.au/products/keo/xl50.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.mindflux.com.au/products/keo/xl35.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The XL35 and XL50 are both much higher resolution, the only difference is the field of view. Which is actually pretty impressive, considering how far away those modules are from the eye! I think the XL50 would probably be using optics that are 60 FOV, but is reduced by the eye distance. And apparently, gauging from the marketing literature, the color gamut and contrast ratio is excellent, here is a page with some pictures: http://en.souvr.com/product/200712/189.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The PV60 also looks impressive, but less so. Vista Technologies appears to have used both a 640x480 and an XGA resolution revision, but I cannot be sure.

That is copied from a PM to another member here.

I found a set of two ProView HMDs, but I cannot figure out which one of those it is. They all have dual VGA and S-Video inputs via the control box, though.

I found someone selling two of these in a set through a liquidator, they are not very informed on what they are, exactly. I can get both of them for $1,900! Possibly less, if I can negotiate down a bit. Is anyone out there interested in buying the set with me? We would split the costs, and each get a very, very nice HMD. The entire line has excellent contrast and color compared to other HMDs.

Considering the price of even a V6, which has much lower quality LCDs, around $1000 for ANY of the ProView line is an absolute steal. And for reference, the XL50 goes for $27,000 new.

I am not going to post where I found these, and if you have found them independently, probably best to not post. I would hate for some random lurker to find them, buy them, and then a valuable opportunity to learn about high end HMDs be lost to us. An interesting note is that the ProView lines uses direct view optics, not folded, and use rectangular optics, yet achieve very high FOVs.

Anybody have any comments/speculation/identification help/interest?

If anyone wants to see where these are, PM me, I would be glad to link.

[VRgamesterz]

Palmer, the ones whoever is selling, those aren't the white ones with vista tags on them are they that came from a medical lab?

Ku

[PalmerTech]

Nope! Those ones are almost certainly the PV60, also sold under the name "i-Port 40".

These ones are dark charcoal gray. But yes, medical lab surplus.

[PalmerTech]

He said he would take $850.

Anybody interested in a dual buy now? This is an absolutely killer deal.

[ancjob]

He said he would take $850.

Anybody interested in a dual buy now? This is an absolutely killer deal.

====================
pal - which ones are on sale - you have given three links ?

i can take ProViewTM XL50 Head-Mounted Display provided it's working great flawlessly!
also ProViewTM XL35 Head-Mounted Display provided it's working great flawlessly!

please do keep me posted...

[PalmerTech]

I am not sure which one of those they are. They have different specifications, but they all look exactly the same, and the seller does not know which they are (He is just a medical equipment liquidator).

They are shown to be working, but I obviously cannot know for sure without buying them.

Even if they are the PV60, it is still a fantastic deal. It has nearly the same specs as the Virtual Research V8, so getting one for this cheap would be a steal.

[Johnny-Mnemonic]

PalmerTech, I know where you found them, also I had some investigations on those headsets earlier, actually I read somewhere that for medical purposes some HMD's were built with much simpler - grayscale LCD's, so this HMD's is quite possibly monochrome.
Can you check this?

[PalmerTech]

The seller is no longer responding to my queries.

I would really doubt that, though. All of the Vista StereoSite documentation I can find brags about the advantages of a high resolution 3D video source (The camera set it comes with is 3D!), it seems so counter productive to make them B/W. It seems far more likely that they are just using re-badged ProView HMDs.

Here is a quote from their literature describing the camera set:

"The Company's endoscopic camera is also referred to as a three-chip camera. "Three-chip" refers to the allocation of a chip to each of the primary colors--red, green and blue. This results in superior color reproduction relative to a standard "single chip" camera, where one chip serves for all three primary colors."

Like I said, it would be very strange to focus on how good the color reproduction is if you are using a monochrome HMD. If anything, it would point toward the XL35 or XL50, which also brag about color reproduction.

I am a little more concerned now that you mention it, though... What do you think? Worth a shot?

[ancjob]

I am a little more concerned now that you mention it, though... What do you think? Worth a shot?

=============
if i were you i'd take the shot with bulletproof put on

[PalmerTech]

WAIT A SEC! I cannot believe I did not see this before.

I totally forgot! Check this picture out:



Obviously, not black and white.

[Johnny-Mnemonic]

WAIT A SEC! I cannot believe I did not see this before.

I totally forgot! Check this picture out:
Obviously, not black and white.

Wow, nice!

[PalmerTech]

Gah, I really want to buy this, but I just do not have $1000 lying around. Then again, I guess most of us do not.

Is there anyone with even a remote interest? It sounds like nobody wants to take the risk with me, but if I buy two of these, I will probably be selling one of them. Would anybody be interested if they were proven to work? I might also be parting with my V8.

[ancjob]

Gah, I really want to buy this, but I just do not have $1000 lying around. Then again, I guess most of us do not.

Is there anyone with even a remote interest? It sounds like nobody wants to take the risk with me, but if I buy two of these, I will probably be selling one of them. Would anybody be interested if they were proven to work? I might also be parting with my V8.

================
relax pal - i will be interested if proven to be working and great!

[VRgamesterz]

It looks cool, but im hesitent just by how he decribes it as operational and fully functional as INTENDED! Meaning it was designed for medical purpose, the system has stereo connection but can a regular PC card hook up to allow gaming is another question, does it need the brains of that tower to work? Im sure he's no dummy and has done a search on this type of HMD, remember the other ones say Proview on them, these don't. What then if you bought it and it's no good for what your looking for, then how would you sell it to make your money back. Thats why I never bought those white ones someone had with the same Vista company, and that to was under 2K.. Try to get intouch with the lost brain, he had some torn down Proviews for sale a few years back.

Ku

[VRgamesterz]

Ok we might be beating a dead horse here!!

Vista got these into the main stream in 1998, before these there was the series 8000, I did read that they were for microscopic and endoscopic. I found another person selling 3 sets but no price listed. It might also need their software but I could be wrong.... Go to DOTmed.com listing 783300

Nice catch though and good luck to who ventures out there!!

[PalmerTech]

The only custom stuff here is the processor box, which has dual VGA and BNC Composite inputs, and the same for outputs. I really, really doubt the HMDs would for some reason be modified from their stock configuration, Vista re-badged them so they would not have to design their own. Considering the standard ProView HMDs use standard inputs, and these appears to in every way match those inputs, it would be unlikely for them to create their own video standard.

I will try to get in contact with him! I have always been jealous to death of his Datavisor 80s he got.

At $850, I might just bite the bullet and try to get the money to put into these.

[ancjob]

The only custom stuff here is the processor box, which has dual VGA and BNC Composite inputs, and the same for outputs. I really, really doubt the HMDs would for some reason be modified from their stock configuration, Vista re-badged them so they would not have to design their own. Considering the standard ProView HMDs use standard inputs, and these appears to in every way match those inputs, it would be unlikely for them to create their own video standard.

I will try to get in contact with him! I have always been jealous to death of his Datavisor 80s he got.

At $850, I might just bite the bullet and try to get the money to put into these.

=================
pal - goodluck tp you when you try ...
however if you gonna go for two then i'd lessen your burden eventually when you decide to part ways with one of them... hehehe

[zacherynuk]

There are a variety for sale on DotMed
http://www.dotmed.com/listing/893407" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dotmed.com/listing/686268" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and here http://www.dotmed.com/listing/780660" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

as well as an ebay here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0430241025" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Having had a good look at this I have decided that they are the old ProView 30/40/50/60/80 or 100 models; given that the 3D endescopic camera an operator would be visualising is only 30degree FOV I can't see it even being a particularly emersive model - probably the 40, which is only 36 degrees diagnal FOV.

Take a look at the actual shape of the optic enclosure in this picture: http://www.neomicroinc.com/pics/13672e.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and then compare it with the far more square look, and other detail changes of the XL series: http://www.mindflux.com.au/images/proviewxl.gif" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PDF of the 60 here: http://www.mindflux.com.au/products/keo ... w%2060.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Which would be absolutly best case scenario.


The actual equipment, Stereosite by Vista Technology Systems was bough by Viking Systems; a good brochure is here: http://www.platinummedical.com/document ... 764cf25526" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


A good chart is also here to see them side by side: http://www.stereo3d.com/hmd.htm#chart" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To complicate matters, though, I was confused before taking a good look at the photos, since the reference material on both the Viking Systems and StereoSite systems boasts LCD SVGA / 800x600 resolutions (I can't find the damn link now, but it was for a paper proving why 3D surgery was the beesknees) I was confused by this, since the only Kaiser to use SVGA was a Helmet attached OLED display, certainly not the classic Proview in the pictures.... however; this link (with a picture of the smooth classic Proview (not the square cool XL) http://www.combatsim.com/review.php?id=631" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; states: SVGA (640x480) - which, back then could have been a reference point mistake, since Kaiser were a bit poop on the manual front.

So, if you were thinking coulda, shoulda, woulda - at least you know what you are buying.

Also bearing in mind that both HMD's drive from the same control box, you probably couldn't split the things anyway. IMHO you would be better off with a V6 from vrtifacts.

I hope this helped somebody.

Zach.

[PalmerTech]

Thanks Zach! Great info!

I already have a Virtual Research V8, so I was looking to expand my collection.

[ancjob]

Thanks Zach! Great info!

I already have a Virtual Research V8, so I was looking to expand my collection.

you got me addicted to HMDs..
Now if everything goes ok - z800 will be in my collection..then i will get I-trek 3D pc from vrealities...

[yomer]

Well, I have the Proview XL50, complete with controller box and motion tracker. But I don't think I could let it go for less then $7.5K, that's still way cheaper than the $17K+ for the new ones.

I tested the XL50 out with several VR apps and some games. And I have to say that for someone who's really into VR, it's a must own.

I had great plans and a great project with this HMD, well I still have, but time has gotten the best of me and they're now indefinitely stored.

[PalmerTech]

It is a long shot, but any chance you could ship it to a member like myself or Cybereality for a review, then we send it back to you? I know the forum trust system only goes so far, but neither of us would run off with it. I would absolutely love to try it out, take pictures, all that. One of the most interesting parts of the virtual reality world, for me, is how diverse the hardware is.

[ancjob]

Well, I have the Proview XL50, complete with controller box and motion tracker. But I don't think I could let it go for less then $7.5K, that's still way cheaper than the $17K+ for the new ones.

I tested the XL50 out with several VR apps and some games. And I have to say that for someone who's really into VR, it's a must own.

I had great plans and a great project with this HMD, well I still have, but time has gotten the best of me and they're now indefinitely stored.

US$7.5k - that's a lot of money to ask for Proview XL50 !
who on earth 'd pay for watching 2D movies and playing 3D games.....unless the guy is absolutely dumb not knowing how to spend money well if he's deep pocketed...

That kind on money i'd go for Dell' alienware HD laptops [17' screen 120HZ refresh rates] and have the ultimate 3D with shutter glasses supplied...

[yomer]

US$7.5k - that's a lot of money to ask for Proview XL50 !
who on earth 'd pay for watching 2D movies and playing 3D games.....unless the guy is absolutely dumb not knowing how to spend money well if he's deep pocketed...

That kind on money i'd go for Dell' alienware HD laptops [17' screen 120HZ refresh rates] and have the ultimate 3D with shutter glasses supplied...

It's the technology used on the HMD that's worth all that dough and more. You cannot have a complete "immersive" experience, unless you can buy a gyro mouse and hang that 17' laptop around your neck(It would cause quite a strain and wouldn't get even a tenth of the VR experience. The XL50 has been designed for high end VR applications and research. Given the right use, this is worth the retail price.

If I were you, and only cared about things popping out of the screen and having depth, then yes, I would buy myself a laptop or even desktop to view 3D. The XL50 isn't meant as a solution to sitting down and playing games in 3D. I believe the 3D effect can be a bit more perceptible using glasses, but when you add the head tracking, there's no going back and the "immersiveness" duplicates, triplicates or even raises the experience tenfold. Remember, this is a VR HMD, not just a 3D HMD

It is a long shot, but any chance you could ship it to a member like myself or Cybereality for a review, then we send it back to you? I know the forum trust system only goes so far, but neither of us would run off with it. I would absolutely love to try it out, take pictures, all that. One of the most interesting parts of the virtual reality world, for me, is how diverse the hardware is.

Quite a long shot it is. And is not about the trust. I tend to believe in the best of any one person in a given community I belong to. The long shot would involve in having to cross the border(MEX->USA), and after sending it, having it reviewed and sent back; then having to go through customs (USA->MEX) with such an equipment. I took my chances when I acquired them and fortunately I got a green light and wasn't inspected ( I could've gone through inspection and still come out "unharmed", but there's always the possibility of a crooked customs officer giving me a hard time).

Anyway, when I decided to store and/or sell my XL50. I kind of got into the idea that if I crossed them over to the US again, I wouldn't try and bring them back. And that my friend, is why it would be a long shot.

[PalmerTech]

Ah, I had not considered you being in another country.

Well, I am hanging out in Southern California, so if you ever make your way up here, you are very welcome to visit.

[cybereality]

Well for $7.5k I could build a seriously sick C.A.V.E that would probably blow that HMD out the water. I mean, I am sure its a nice model compared to the crap HMDs that I could afford, but for that kind of money I had better be jacking into the friggin' Matrix!

[ancjob]

Well for $7.5k I could build a seriously sick C.A.V.E that would probably blow that HMD out the water. I mean, I am sure its a nice model compared to the crap HMDs that I could afford, but for that kind of money I had better be jacking into the friggin' Matrix!

even my headplay with 34FOV strains me and i have to take it off after every 2 hrs - cannot imagine what it'd be like with those xl50 with 60FOV....
But headplay gets the job done. frankly...

if you go to vrealities there xsight,pisight etc with 60-180FOV - but for me i am ok with my humble headplay... it rocks and gives me the feeling that i own a floating LCD...and 3D is great too...and to add further i am not a fool to squander my hard earned US $7.5k ....on XL50 which almost is a helmet...

[cybereality]

Well in real-life, we have an almost 180 degree field of view (with 120 degree stereo overlap) and I do not get any headaches walking around in real-life.

[ancjob]

Well in real-life, we have an almost 180 degree field of view (with 120 degree stereo overlap) and I do not get any headaches walking around in real-life.

pal - even if you get pisight/xsight with 60-180FOV still it will strain you as natural eyesight and it's FOV and why it does not strain is still an enigma which the research is on to unravel- why?
i think the eyes have variable focus whereas these HMDs have fixed focus [no matter which you choose] which is what strains.....

Trust me - these HMDs can never give the vision quality which natural eyes have - whatever brand you choose...

[PalmerTech]

If that were the case, then gigantic IMAX movie screens with 100 degree FOV (Or more!) would cause extreme eyestrain, but that is not the case.

Large field of view HMDs do not cause any more eyestrain than small ones. If anything, they cause less.

Don't bash before you try one!

[ancjob]

If that were the case, then gigantic IMAX movie screens with 100 degree FOV (Or more!) would cause extreme eyestrain, but that is not the case.

Large field of view HMDs do not cause any more eyestrain than small ones. If anything, they cause less.

Don't bash before you try one!

you got it wrong pal

first I do not wear glasses....the facts below

My i-cine is 32FOV and headplay is 34FOV but i can use i-cine for longer duration [2-4 hrs] without break but with headplay it's 20-30 min max..at a time..although headplay 's screen is better bigger brighter and with great colors but i think it's the high FOV which makes me take breaks between 30 min sessions with it..

Cinemizer not too sure if they come with OLEDs but i will get them as soon as they are out...

But i love these toys...and at the same time NOT TOO crazy either!

Currently i do not have better headset than i-cine in 32FOV category...hence i-trek 3d pc will be next for trial once i get z800 3dvisor delivered to me..[i expect it to be better than headplay in high FOV category..let'see]

[ERP]

Eye strain has nothing to do with the FOV of the device.
It has to do with the optics/physical layout of the device, the focal distance of the display, and how your eyes need to be converged to see the image.

The fact that the Head play is worse for you is coincidental with the larger FOV.

[Okta]

Eye strain has nothing to do with the FOV of the device.
It has to do with the optics/physical layout of the device, the focal distance of the display, and how your eyes need to be converged to see the image.

The fact that the Head play is worse for you is coincidental with the larger FOV.

Quoted for truth. I found the headplay quite straining on the eyes. And it has nothing to do with FOV... unless you are looking to the extreme edges of your eye rotation which can strain the eye muscles, but that isnt going to be a problem with any of the tiny FOV of the consumer crap available.

[cybereality]

Well I can attest to the fact that the prototype HMD that Palmer sent me did give me serious eye-strain and it was like 90-degree FOV. However I don't think it was the FOV causing the problem, but the focal distance of the lens and/or the distance to the screen. Major headache inducer.

[Okta]

Well I can attest to the fact that the prototype HMD that Palmer sent me did give me serious eye-strain and it was like 90-degree FOV. However I don't think it was the FOV causing the problem, but the focal distance of the lens and/or the distance to the screen. Major headache inducer.

Another example is my "crazy" hmd. With a single fresnal the picture is better and a bit smaller but kills the eyes. With 2 fresnals you lose more quality and the view is massive and the eyes cope fine.

[ancjob]

Well I can attest to the fact that the prototype HMD that Palmer sent me did give me serious eye-strain and it was like 90-degree FOV. However I don't think it was the FOV causing the problem, but the focal distance of the lens and/or the distance to the screen. Major headache inducer.

So what's the perfect HMD with huge FOV and does NOT strain at all .?

headplay great display and immersive for field sequential 3D but straining !
i-cine good LCD but contrast not good so it impacts color but does not stain so much...
gotta a list for further trials [and tribulation..hehehe] read below:
32FOV and choices are :
Virtual visor [28FOV true color], [too bad the virtual viewer 3D[28FOV true color] is way too pricey and no reviews so far - palmertech promised to post a review..]
i-Trek 3D PC [32FOV true color]
EVG920V [35FOV true color ?] - sceptical of this one though..may skip this one perhaps

am pretty sure one of the above will be the coolest..

[ERP]

It's virtually impossible to design a HMD that has wide FOV, good optics and compact packaging.
The military would be happy to pay you a lot of money for such a thing.
The recent focus on the latter is what's limited the former.

I think laser projectors have a shot at changing this.

[ancjob]

It's virtually impossible to design a HMD that has wide FOV, good optics and compact packaging.
The military would be happy to pay you a lot of money for such a thing.
The recent focus on the latter is what's limited the former.

I think laser projectors have a shot at changing this.

have not lost hope yet
my new year resolution
1)virtual visor
2)i-Trek 3D PC
from vrealities in 2011...that's for sure...atlest one of them will be good enough!

[cybereality]

have not lost hope yet
my new year resolution
1)virtual visor
2)i-Trek 3D PC
from vrealities in 2011...that's for sure...atlest one of them will be good enough!

Well, I've never tried those headsets but judging from the specs they are just more of the same. 35 degree FOV, 800x600 resolution. Nothing ground-breaking here.

[ancjob]

have not lost hope yet
my new year resolution
1)virtual visor [http://www.oriscape.com.cn/en/products. ... 251&id=117]
2)i-Trek 3D PC [http://www.oriscape.com.cn/en/products. ... 251&id=146]
from vrealities in 2011...that's for sure...atlest one of them will be good enough!

Well, I've never tried those headsets but judging from the specs they are just more of the same. 35 degree FOV, 800x600 resolution. Nothing ground-breaking here.

pal they are oriscape products so 28-32FOV...which suits me and will be glad to give them a try in 2011..