well im an avid console gamer as well w/ them all so im going to get a 1080p anyway, but I understand what you are saying that nobody atm can really run 3d games at the max reso comfortably.

i was going to get the new samsung models i guess.. hl50a650 or the 56" version. I wanted the previous model which had an LED lamp instead w/ higher contrast ratio, but they are pretty much gone from all the retailers now.

so you mean http://www.i-glassesstore.com/dlp3d-wireless-1set.html then. I looked over the software and it looks fairly pointless, all i want to do is gaming. I dont see how the upconversion from 2d to 3d by the software would even be feasible, and there arent enough 3d movies to even warrant the software. I could just get the glasses/transmitter and a few game drivers and be done if im correct.

Hello,

i have a quick question for all who already own any "3d ready" DLP or Plasma using the Tridef drivers.

In the Tridef "Display Setup" Utility, there is this test-picture where you see circles on one eye and sqraes on the other eye.

Testing with my ED glasses (NOT the IOD glasses) i see definitly ok, one eye circles, the other eye squares.

But the circles/squares are not *all black* per eye...on each eye i also see the darker overlapping part, eg. if a circle overlaps a square i see this overlapping part as real black...and the rest of the object is more gray. So...left eye is supposed to see only squares....but i can also see parts of circles *IF they overlap into a square*. (or vice versa)




In the pic above it looks a bit extreme, i shot this thru the LCD shutter actually - you can see what i mean! You can see the slight ghosting too. But then i took this with a cheap cam right thru the glasses...

My question now is if this is normal and whether other people with those sets see the same, or whether they only see plain black squares one ONE eye and black circles on the other, and whether they see the overlapping parts as darker also.

This might help me to determine whether my glasses actually work ok.

G.[/url]

I can't speak for the DLP/Plasma's, but I do own a regular Samsung 32" LCD. I noticed it came preset with some wild default values for brightness/contrast. The backlighting can also be turned down which helps with the black levels. I spent about a half hour to an hour just messing with the video settings to get it right. Make sure this isn't just a color issue with the monitor. Also, it might just be the way it was supposed to be. I think I tried a similar test app (with shutter glasses on a crt) and there was overlapping like that. Naturally the overlapping parts would be darker, unless there was absolutely no ghosting.

I'd say ghosting (or crosstalk), too.
I think it would look similar on a CRT. It might be
- the glasses (hopefully)
- the speed of the plasma screen...

I'm not shure, how these screens are built, so I can't be shure... DLP however sends directly the light to the right spots witch mirrors, so it shouldn't have ANY ghosting, if the glasses work correctly...

i can only be sure if someone with the "right" glasses (the IOD glasses coming with the Tridef Starter Kit) tells me how it looks for them...otherwise i might run into danger to spend another $149 for a set of glasses....just to see that the result is the same. But..as in my pics, thats ABOUT what i see in reality also using the shutters, maybe the pics just pronounce it a lot, its not THAT extreme. But it's still a little off, IMHO.

I really thought/hope that at least this 3D implementation on the DLPs/Plasma do NOT have the annoyances like anaglyphs, like ghosting and similar....because thats exactly which makes this for me "not usable", like gaming etc.......thanks, then i rather play in 2D. But i still hope its only the glasses.

Flexy,

On my 42 inch Plasma using the correct shutter glasses I get a similar ghosting but not as extreme. I am assuming your pictures exagerate the effect. Also, the test screen showing black on white would be the worst case scenerio. In the NFS racing game I tried, there was minor ghosting on the brightest lines. I am assuming Plasmas suffer from some persistance just like CRT's do but about half as much.

Combing the slight ghosting with the loss of resolution it isn't the best solution but better than most.

I still prefer my DLP projector @85hz with the slight flicker on bright objects but it keeps its 1024X768 resolution.

Perhaps the DLP sets don't have any ghosting problem but they would still suffer from losing resolution and most setups can't handle 3d at the 1080P.

We still need a 3d 120hz ghost/flicker free solution at minimum 1024X768 and I don't see anyone making one.

If the HDMI port is limiting the bandwidth, then why don't they allow you to use the VGA input to take advantage of the 120hz at full resolution?

nope. with my eDims+ 19' CRT 1024*768@100hz I only get visible ghosting in extremely dark areas. in daytime/lit scenarios I get zero ghosting. zero.

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/samsu ... 1541.shtml

an interesting read i dugg up, nothing new per say but good for ppl in my position

If you run a DLP on 1080p with 3D, it HAS a better resolution than 1024x768. It is matematically
1920/2 = 960x1080 - which is slightly more than 1024x768. It can do 120hz in that mode as well and it should not ghost unlike the Plasmas. They are just like a DLP projector built into a box I think. That makes them so big (and heavy)...

the new glasses might be helpfull... especially, if you want multiple people to experience the 3D effect

Luke,

OF COURSE.

Except that thre is no way i can run ANY current game at 1920x1080 with any significant quality settings AND the enormous overhead eg. the tridef drivers add also.
I do not have a slow system...my Geforce 8800GTS eats anythign i throw at her and i play 1650x1080, 4xAA smooth like silk (except crysis with all settings at max ...but 1920x1080 is just not realistic, even for a "normal" high-end PC...it would need a hyper-ultra high-end PC and even THEN i want to see any current game run smoothly

Also...since i see it mentioned a few times:

guys, resolution is NO issue at all...if i'd to see pixelation and resolution issues i would say so


chris,

i found this test-picture

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/i-glasse ... -IMAGE.bmp
and it displays fine.

maybe it is really only a matter of the right brightness/contrast settings.

I dont think that either resolution OR flicker is an issue....in fact...there IS no flicker.

Also, after reading up a bit it is clear that neither LCDs, Plasmas AND DLPs are able to do interlace and therefore "real" page-flipping. This works only on CRTs. I also read that Plasma's response times are literally zero (eg. compared to LCDs).

Since that 3d system works different, it builds the stereo-picture in ONE frame (as far as i understand)...and then the internal electronics sync it somwhoe with the glasses...i dont think its a speed-issue or anything. Maybe its supposed to be like this.

If my current glasses would sync wrongly...eg. in the above test picture one eye would surely see what it's not supposed to see....but i can clearly distinguish the "L" and "R" per eye. So i assume that its working fine??!??!?!
And yes...the shots exaggerate a lot, i also used a flash

I have another question to you, chris:

If i turn on 3D, depending on the brightness setting of the set...i see that "colorful" snow which consists of a random grain of red/blue/green noise across the screen. I noticed it disappears if i go with brightness below 50. It is *almost* not visible with the shutters on, i still dont know whether its supposed to be like that...or if its brightness settings...or what to think about it. Do you get this also? Otherwise i dont have an explanation why the 3d setting would introduce that colored "snow".

G.

I'm purchasing a DLP this weekend, so i'm going to go ahead and order the http://www.i-glassesstore.com/dlp3d-wireless-1set.html

Seems very simple product to setup, hopefully i'll get a good result. IZ3D doesn't fit my tastes...not enough room and constant adjusting the convergene.

I'll let you know how it looks Flexy..although I have never tried shutterglasses or a projector so I won't be able to compare well. I've seen 3d movies and iz3d though, oh and Magic Carpet!

ill keep ya posted


edit: btw....all i need is just the glass/transmitter combo and the $5 game driver to get a game to run correctly right? looks like the software is just for movies and conversion and other things.

Why not just try a game or some stereo video and see if it works?

well i only have one 3D DVD for now (more coming)....and i tested WoW. But as said, i noticed the ghosting and was wondering how it is for others. Main reason is to determine whether my ED glasses are sufficient and whether the IOD glasses would give better results.

i think it may have a lot to do with the quality of the glasses as I don't recall seeing this during the setup of my dlp. i will check next week when i am back in town...

If it does the checkerboard pattern, then you lose both horizontal and vertical pixels so it would be 960/540.

The frame rates would be horrible too.

I get that also. I think it has to do with how plasma's generate variations in colors as well as some color effects you get with the alternate pixels flashing on and off for the left and right eyes. It doesn't show up with the glasses on playing games.

actually you need 'only' 2 pictures, so you need 'only' 2 pixels in Checkerboard to 'project' 1 pixel for each eye - so the resolution is only halfed. Because of the special arrangement of the pixels that is better for the eyes than interlaced. The 'lost' information are spread more widely all over the picture and not every second line.

@ system and 1080p: I think the best rig to output this would be a Core2Duo with7900GTX OC with Nvidia driver 'hacked'.
I'm not shure, wheter the gf7 can do such a resolution, but it might work fast for some games from last year... You could try Flatout2. It's nice with all the stuff flying around you in 3D.

I heard the DDD drivers are a little slow, so you might be faster with a GF7 actually

yes, you "lose" half width/height per eye...but its getting combined again. It's really not that big a deal.
What counts is that i still can game at 1360x760 which is a very reasonable resolution - and from looking at the image, even on a 50" i cant see any disadvantage in the fact that each checkboard is only half of this resolution!
Without ever having seen one, i can tell you for sure that the resulting picture/quality is WAY better than eg. having one of those HMDs which only makes 800x600 like the Z800. I think a DLP or Plasma, even "only" at 1360x768 would be a way better deal than a such a HMD with 800x600 and very little FOV which costs almost the same.

Another factor which i didnt even mention yet....is how the drivers/game implement their 3D...i also note eg. playing WoW that its not perfect all the time, this is also a driver issue.

Btw..if someone hs links/pointers to software, 2D->3D conversation kits, 3D players etc...appreciate it. Just bought the "stereo player" which is pretty "ok"...but maybe there is better stuff out?

G.

Here's a free 2D->3D converter : http://dragon.bestavia.com/indexold.html?progs.htm
I think it's from Dragon.

But still you can't look around 360º to explorer your surroundings. That's what faced my attention into them since my childhood, even more than the stereo-3D thing and made me bought one despite de cons.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a huge screen like yours to play games. In fact, since I got the shutterglasses, I'm using them instead of the HMD to play FPS for the comfort and the higher resolution.
So, I don't like the weight, low resolution and little FOV, it's just that it's the best I can have that allows me to look around. The idea of being IN a synthetic world has fascinated me all my life.

yes crim,

but unless you get a $64.000 "military grade" HMD you will be stuck with consumer-grade HMDs having a very, very small FOV.
That was actually the main reason i chose the 50" TV. If i set this on my desk...my view is filled, i doubt that a HMD in that range can do that.

If those HMDs would be like the ones people know from the movies...well..another story

Yeah, I totally agree. If they could bring out like a ultra-hd full 360 degree FOV HMD, it would beat everything else. I'm still waiting.

Anyway, I checked the prices on the Samsung, they are really affordable now. I had no idea. In fact, that 50" is less than I paid for my 32" LCD only a few years back. FOR A 50" 3D-READY SET!!!!! Unbelievable, I can't even imagine how much bigger the sizes can go? Like it can barely fit through a door as it is! I was looking at the 61" version. Insane prices, even for just a 2D screen. Please do some more tests and let us know how it is. Who needs a iz3d/Zalman when you can have 50 plus inches! I don't think I realized how big of a deal this was (I was thinking the sets were like $3,000-4,000). Great times.

Flexy, what kind of stereo formats can you run with that setup? I'll see if I can find anything on my computer you can use to test.

Also, could you tell me how the set works for 2d content (like reading text). Is it suitable as a monitor or just strictly for games/movies?

yeh dude even the 61" is great... around $1600, but then when you skip up to 67" it skips up to like $2500 heh.

Yeh i was surprised and thrilled to find out it has 3D support, i have my glasses 2day air coming in tommorow and getting a set tommorow too i think. I'll let you know how it works out, only experience w/ 3d drivers and such has been w/ gettin the IZ3d to work, so hopefully the DLP won't be hard to setup and tweak.

>>>
Yeah, I totally agree. If they could bring out like a ultra-hd full 360 degree FOV HMD, it would beat everything else. I'm still waiting.

Anyway, I checked the prices on the Samsung, they are really affordable now. I had no idea. In fact, that 50" is less than I paid for my 32" LCD only a few years back. FOR A 50" 3D-READY SET!!!!! Unbelievable, I can't even imagine how much bigger the sizes can go? Like it can barely fit through a door as it is! I was looking at the 61" version. Insane prices, even for just a 2D screen. Please do some more tests and let us know how it is. Who needs a is3d/Zalman when you can have 50 plus inches! I don't think I realized how big of a deal this was (I was thinking the sets were like $3,000-4,000). Great times.

Flexy, what kind of stereo formats can you run with that setup? I'll see if I can find anything on my computer you can use to test.

Also, could you tell me how the set works for 2d content (like reading text). Is it suitable as a monitor or just strictly for games/movies?
>>>

Cyber,

you have another advantage: Those sets in the states are "only" $1200 compared to EU1299 which i paid...but i think that the 1299 were still incredible "cheap" for what you get in return.

The TV has settings which allow switching between checkerboard (3D DLP standard) and vertical and horizontal interleave. But i was not able to test the interleave settings yet..i also cant say whether those would be better than the checkerboard.

Stereo seems to work only if you feed the set the native PC resultion, in my cas 1360x768 OR 1024x768 (never tried 1024)...if you chose another resolution or feed content from a source with diff resolution you cant turn on stereo.

TV as a "monitor" is OUTSTANDING...i agree with several reviews there. I was expecting much less, but this thing in front of you as a monitor at 1360x768...everthing is CLEAR and readable...its incredible! Not to mention gaming. (This is DVI --> HDMI)
Same for XBOX 360 of course.

The only problem with those plasmas is their sensitivity to "burn-in"...or "image retention"...so i would be careful with usinng this with static images for hours and hours....or at least only after 100-200hrs "break in period". But the TV has many options to avoid image retention or burn in, like automatic pixel shifting and similar. But this is something we plasma owners have to live with. So..using at a monitor i would make sure you use screen-savers and whatever methods and not have your static desktop on this thing 18hrs a day.

The other option would be going with the Samsung DLP sets where i also only hear good things, they wouldnt have the image-retention problem. Thats the DLP based sets which came out a few months before the plasmas.

I totally agree, $1200 for this gives you an oustanding HDTV with incredible picture quality, a giant monitor for 2D gaming as well as built-in 3D...and seeing that eg. a little HMD like the Z800 already is in the same price range it was a no-brainer to get this instead.

Nope, not at all. All you do is plug in the emitter in the back....connect your PC, have the (tridef) drivers installed and fire off the games from your PC connected via DVI ---> HDMI (Dont know if VGA would work also).

Checkerboard "wobulation" like those sets use seems to be simple to implement, thats why "stereo player" and similar utilities already support this format. So...in other words you can get one of those (very, very few) existing 3D DVDs, use stereo player, set to "samsung DLP"....and watch this in 3D on the big screen like in IMAX

great, im excited

i had to do some digging... it this what you are talking about flexy?
http://www.3dtv.at/Index_en.aspx

this is great haha, gonna digg up some 3d movies/samples to try out

yep, that's the player. The tridef driver-set you need also has a player, so..both cost money since the "stereo player" otherwise is limited, i think it only plays 5mins unless you register. The tridef player in trial shows this split-screen....the tridef player also converts 2D DVDs (!) in real time into pseudo 3D. But Peter's stereo player seems to be more flexible...havent tried a lot with the tridef player yet, i still run the trial too.

which reminds me...i am just downloading a set of 1000s of stereo pictures...i can try those one the TV once i am done downloading
(My IMAX movies from ebay are still in the mail...)

which reminds me...i asked earlier..

i dont need the tridef software do i...

i just ordered the glasses/transmitter only, and plan to go download the $5 WoW game driver. I assumed thats all i'd need and that the tridef software was just extra crap such as the 2d>3d converter, 3d dvd player, and photo crap.

hopefully i only need the standalone game driver....or my holiday weekend will be void of 3d gaming!


edit:
just saw this

http://www.tridef.com/download/TriDef-3 ... e-3.2.html

it looks like i could download the trial then activate it...not sure if they sell the activation code online though...

Arlum,

you need the tridef stuff (bunch of utilities, control panel etc.) installed for the licenses being checked if you want any of their games drivers. Its not a big deal, nothing is running in the background.

But yes, for the other (non tridef) stereo player you wouldnt need the tridef stuff.

Arlum, yes. Since i bought the WoW license online per paypal. You get a code and then enter the code and its activated.

sorry im still getting mixed up

so i have to purchase http://www.ddd.com/cart/product.php?pro ... t=2&page=1 right? and they email you the activation code which you plug into http://www.tridef.com/download/TriDef-3 ... e-3.2.html , correct? There's no shipping section when you go to checkout w/ that product so i assume its emailed.

and then the separate wow driver of course.

sorry to hassle you tryin to get this all straight, im great with computers but damn... they dont explain it well at the site

what i did:

I downloaded the free package there from the tridef/ddd site and installed it.

Then i bought the driver-license for WoW online and entered the code. I didnt buy anythine else since i have glasses already from edimensional, and for the media player i dont care. So..the whole thing so far cost me $4.99 for the WoW drivers.

Btw. i am just back from watching hundreds of 3d pictures on the TV which i downloaded from some site. I used "StereoPhoto Maker" 3.23 which also supports the DLP method now.

I could try the "checkerboard" setting on the TV, as well as horizontal interleaved and vertical interleaved.

Checkerboard (the standard setting) has definitly the best overall picture quality.

From the 100s and 100s of photos...i noticed slight ghosting only on a very few...the majority displayed very well.

Made it also very clear that some photos just didnt get "it" right and just merely are good for introducing headaches, while a select few were oustanding.

I am always fascinated by those "out of the screen" effects, but from the 100s of photos only a couple or so had this going on.

Now..we just need movies and games in the same quality as some of those photos.....this is definitly proof that the methods works, but made it so clear how it can depend on the source and probably also the skill/knowledge of the photographer/movie director.

Wow, I am going to read up on your experience right now!

My TV quit working and I want a bigger PC monitor, when I can afford one I will for sure look at this!

Good news for this type of solution:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=9511#9511

thanks flex that's what i was asking sounds great! if it works great ill snag bioshock for fun haha. Tommorow will be a good day

yeah today i tried the "2D-->3D" conversion watching a few parts off matrix revolutions in "pseudo 3d". Its nonsense like this which is the reason that 3D is a niche thing and has problems going to mainstream. (As expected the pseudo 3D using the tridef media player is total nonsense...maybe it gets a halfway "ok" effect in this or that scene...but in general its just a random "illusion" of somethign being 3D with more downsides than positives...you get as well watch a movie thru a fish-bowl and get the same illusion it's "in 3d"

In addition, the tridef player (unlike stereoplayer) doesnt play REAL 3D movies at all....it just doesnt display the 3D right, and yes i switched it to read the material as 3Di (interlaced)..it just doesnt work, also after a lot of tweakign ans trying. WASTE of money for "tridef media player" so far.

wow thats horrible, but its what i assumed anyway


but wow i figure it woudl at least play the 3d dvd's correctly...............pitiful...

they didnt ship my my glasses friday...even though i paid for 2day air. They just shipped the xmitter only. But iodisplay was nice and didnt question it and shipped out my glasses via 2day. Ill be getting it tommorow and i'll let you know the appropriate glasses do in WoW.

you got a plasma?

Well..as in regards to 3D DVDs...just use "stereoplayer"....also, tridef told me they dont actively suppprt Vista 64, so this might be another problem.

The problem is that the tridef media player needs an existing DVD decoder (either a free, opensource one) or WinDVD or PowerDVD installed...but i have the latest versions of those, it just doesnt decode right. Might be that it works under XP, and might be it works with older versions of WinDVD. But as said the pseudo 2D thingy was less than impressive...

nah a big 56" DLP

flexy, it's the same with stereoscopic player. You need a DVD decoder.

Look here : http://www.3dtv.at/Products/Player/DVDPlayback_en.aspx
It shows what settings you need to use for the decoders you use. On some decoders, you need to force deinterlacing off or the DVD decoder will combine the two pictures while decoding, resulting in two pictures that are the same and no S3D.

yes,

you are right. But SP works fine with the one under Vista, and also with the one recommened OpenSource one. tridef player doesnt.

And Tril, interestingly SP claims that WinDVD decoder doesnt work since you cannot turn off de-interlacing..while tridef says they support WinDVD player But here on my machine i see it doesnt work.

Maybe WinDVD does not work in interlaced mode and only in Side-by-side or over-under formats?
Try some of the testvideos in that format (e.g. blackshark's trackmania video)
Maybe it works, but it's only a guess