Is Bleen Being Clean With Their Facts?

Post by **Neil** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:21 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoLcZKkwPQI

Last week, we received a phone call about a new gadget called "Bleen" which was raising money on Indiegogo for a sum goal of $250,000 or higher. At the time, they had already raised $32,000 in cash.

Bleen is a projection pod that promises to display hovering interactive holograms in true to life form; very much like Princess Leia calling for Obi-Wan Kenobi. Now THAT is exciting.

Read full article...

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:26 pm

It actually sounds interesting, and the video looked as legit as anything else on IndieGoGo. I mean, if it is fraudulent, it's quite an elaborate fake.

However, if they want me to plop down $225+ they need to at least show a working prototype of something. Not fake special effects.

Post by **cadcoke5** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:06 pm

A few minor additions to your articles. The Pepper's Ghost illusion does not necessarily need a partially silvered mirror. Even a plain glass or plastic film may have enough reflectivity, depending on the situation. A projected person can appear on stage,and does not need a body-double on stage(though one was used to create the animation). The projection can appear on stage along side real actors, though the projected one will be see-through if they stand in front of a real object on stage.

There is a type of rear-projection film that is actually a holographic optical element, though the resulting image is not a hologram. It is simply a 2D projected image. People will often mistake it for a hologram. If you are 30ft away, and sitting in a chair, you really can't tell the difference, since you don't really use stereo vision much at that range. This rear-projection film is designed to look transparent, but will direct light from the point source of the projector towards the audience.

I don't know personally which type of projection was used for the Tupac effect.

Post by **Neil** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:19 pm

cybereality wrote:It actually sounds interesting, and the video looked as legit as anything else on InidieGoGo. I mean, if it is fraudulent, it's quite an elaborate fake.

However, if they want me to plop down $225+ they need to at least show a working prototype of something. Not fake special effects.

What happened was I saw a presentation about a year ago about projection and holography and how the "Princess Leia" experience was impossible (as shown in the movies) because light can't be bent and reshaped at will without some type of surface to work on. When I got the call about this product, I didn't want to take any chances with the science, so I reached out to Professor Page to look it through. His original description of the technology was...less tactful. Apparently this crossed his desk already. I'm glad he was willing to put down a formal statement on this as his credentials are far better than mine.

In all honesty, if they could show a real device or a working prototype, I will retract my concerns and personally endorse it. There's a free exhibition waiting for them at Immersed (if their stuff works) because I think the potential is breathtaking. However, I draw the line at breaking the laws of physics. No amount of backer money can do that, and people shouldn't be writing cheques based on how slick their video is - at least not until there is some kind of independent proof or indication that they have a fundamental technology that works.

Regards,
Neil

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:19 pm

I think they may be misrepresenting the technology, but I don't think it's a scam. If they just wanted to steal money, there are probably easier and more discreet ways to do that. I think they do actually have some sort of a product. It's just probably not real holography. I imagine they are either projecting into mist, or have some sort of thin screen fabric that's air-blown up and is being projected on. Both methods have seen prototypes before, it's not totally crazy (but again, is not holography). If they actually created a real free-standing hologram, I doubt they would be soliciting funds on IndieGoGo.

Post by **Neil** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:29 am

I'm not going to call this a scam or fraud. However, there is a responsibility here to hold up to public scrutiny when raising funds like this; especially if their top industry holographic experts are misrepresenting what a hologram is to pre-sell a product and/or breaking the laws of science as we know it.

Better to wipe away the doubts so they can raise even more money to release this incredible scientific innovation that will change our lives as we know it.

Regards,
Neil

Post by **dazbobaby** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:43 am

I'll suspend my disbelief when I see it working.

Space-Time Light Modulator?

bleen.PNG

Post by **WebDext** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:50 pm

Hey guys, I originally made the call to Neil to get some attention on this. I am HIGHLY skeptical this technology is possible at this price point. Space Time Light Modulation is actually a thing, but the computational requirements are insane. Also, it wouldn't look anything like what's in their CG videos.

Trust me though, I would LOVE for this to be a real thing!

So anyways, we got this posted on the occulus sub-reddit, it would be great if we could get some more upvotes to get some eyes on it!

http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments ... en_a_scam/

Thanks!

Post by **cybereality** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:30 pm

After looking at and reading their website, I think I was mistaken. This project most certainly is some sort of a hoax.

I don't think it is fraud or a scam. I think it's some sort of viral media campaign, maybe from a big company. Obviously some time and money went into producing the video and website and all that.

I'm almost willing to chip in just to see what happens.

Post by **Neil** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:33 pm

The production values are out of this world. I wonder if it's a social experiment to see how (forgive me for saying this) gullible people really are. Will they just cancel the campaign at the very last minute and issue some kind of media report? They obviously had the money to put this together; it couldn't have been cheap.

I did reach out to their press contacts this morning, by the way. No answer.

Regards,
Neil

Post by **j1vvy** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:11 pm

I vote social experiment and I think the Blocks camera on Kickstarter is too.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/20 ... nctional-c

Four fisheye lenses can cover the entire sphere but I am not seeing enough curve in the glass of those lenses to be convinced. And towards the end when the top lens and sensor is removed and replaced with a battery it sits in too deep.

I kind of like the idea of being able to also use it to capture stereoscopic. But I would rather have a dedicated camera for that.

If this was a functional spherical video camera there would be some samples. There isn't even a still image out of the camera.

Post by **dazbobaby** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:31 pm

@J1vvy
for a sperical camera try this: http://blog.mess-hall.co.uk/panono-ball-camera/

@$350 for the blocks camera just to shoot 3D without aligning the shot first... thanks but no thanks. I'll stick to my Fuji W3

Post by **cert** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:59 pm

If you can develop such a thing like this you don't have to collect money on Indiegogo, you can ask facebook/google directly for xxx million dollars.

Post by **Jonnyhologram** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:44 am

Re: Is Bleen Being Clean With Their Facts? The answer is clear, NO, NO, NO. What they say they are going to supply is currently impossible, let alone at a price point of $225!

Having asked them to see a prototype, some real photos and video and if they have got a patent pending, they said they couldn't and didn't. Keep away from this nonsense.

As to it being some sort of social experiment, maybe, but to what end, exposing the general public as gullible? Well that is not exactly an unknown! A scam seems more likely, as if the campaign really took off and nobody was shouting about it being a scam, then maybe they would have raised millions.

Post by **Hannibalj2** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:23 am

I will just drop this here just in case

Source: http://www.zebraimaging.com/

source: http://hackaday.com/2014/11/06/how-a-re ... lay-works/

Post by **Dom** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:47 am

I thought it was real at first too. I know its possible to do a mid air laser display. You just first have to think of a way to have a clear and clean holopicture exit point in x,y,z with the light field.

We talked about this a bit in this tread: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13919

I've been trying to decode the mystery of a real holographic 3dtv since 1995 or so. I think I know, I think I know, lol....

Post by **Jonnyhologram** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:39 am

Check this out, nice article about Bleen being total scammers!

http://betabeat.com/2014/11/could-this- ... gogo-scam/

What's amazing is that even though Indiegogo have been told by several people that the Bleen campaign is a scam, they haven't pulled the campaign yet! The poor sods who have had their money stolen by these shitty scammers will be very up set to hear that Indiegogo knew that bleen were scammers

Post by **Likay** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:30 pm

Perhaps it's a project that's directly/indirectly funded by indiegogo.

Joking of course but these days nothing really surprises anymore...

Post by **cybereality** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:46 pm

Thanks for the link, Jonnyhologram.

Feel bad for all those backers that will likely lose their cash.