iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

120Hz or Polarized, this is the place to share your findings on what's out there!
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Likay
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Post by Likay »

Here's my personal review of the IZ3D 22"er. I'm no pro but i'm trying to be objective. :D

Connection: The monitor takes all voltages between 100-240 volts 50/60Hz so you can connect it in every walloutlet in the world. It draws at max 160Watts of power. All the necessary cables (usa net, european net cables, two dvi-cables and one vga-cable) are included so it's just unpack, connect and you're ready to go. The monitor itself has three signal-inputs: Two dvi (back and front) and one vga extra for the back panel.

Requirements: Computer with winXp and Vista 32-bit. Graphiccard with two videooutputs.

Pictures: (I actually have it this way on the table). :)
Image Image Image

2D-viewing with the IZ3D: Personally i have no problem reading/using the iz3d in 2d as long as i keep the glasses off. The effect looks a little bit like an optical smooth filter is attached to it. The picture however is sharp. Have taken some pics here too. The monitor to the left is a samsung syncmaster 19"LCD and the right one is the 22"IZ3D. The middle picture is a Samsung-lcd closeup and the rightmost one iz3d closeup.
Image Image Image

Ingame screenshots are made with the iz3d driver while playing. When i take the shot i have delayed triggering on the cameras so i can let the cameras focus and lock on the "naked" screen. Then i attach the polarized glasses. This way i'm sure to get the color differences too. However i have a feeling that the color difference somehow is enhanced with these cameras. This effect isn't this big when gaming with it (personal experience, other iz3d-owners might want to add their opinion and in that case: Please do. :) ).

Everybody can now try the iz3d-driver (v1.07) in anaglyph mode and try compability with games and their computers. These screenshots is only to somehow see how it performs. The upper picture is the original screenshot from the driver. The lower one is the (hopefully) corresponding screenshot taken with stereocamera with iz3d-goggles using s-view. :D. Either view them x-eyed or with a low ghosting device for a somehow fair result.

Added in betaglasses pictures with another camera used past time since i exchanged those.

Flat Out 2 screenshot images:
Image Image Image Image Image Image

Standard glasses view:
Image Image Image Image Image Image

Betaglasses view:
Image Image Image Image Image Image



Portal screenshot images:
Image Image Image Image Image Image

Standard glasses view:
Image Image Image Image Image Image

Betaglasses view:
Image Image Image Image Image Image



Tomb Raider Legend & Anniversary screenshot images:
Image Image Image Image Image Image

Standard glasses view:
Image Image Image Image Image Image

Betaglasses view:
Image Image Image Image Image Image



Tomb Raider Legend & Anniversary screenshot images:
Image Image Image Image Image

Standard glasses view:
Image Image Image Image Image

Betaglasses view:
Image Image Image Image Image


Pros: Easy to handle, polarized so others can view also if you're not sitting to close to the monitor. Polarized system means lightweight glasses, comfort and cheap replacements of glasses. Great support from iz3d developers. Excellent stereodriver. Older games can be played using the nvidia "old-school" way using the NeurOk option. No opengl games though.

Cons: Still some ghosting in brighter areas (sky etc). Reduced a bit with the betaglasses.
The colordifference which with betaglassesnow is reduced to a fully acceptable level.
No opengl support for the moment.

cheers

Edit at 2009-06-03: Put in pictures taken with a camera through the betaglasses.
Last edited by Likay on Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:56 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Post by sharky »

hi likay!

fantastic review.. original.. a true 3D review.. maybe a little less text.. :D

by the way, i agree with oyu that the color differences are not that much while using it. and if you look at the center picture you ahve taken, in the very irst row, cou can seel that the cameras itself have some coloring differences.i would say that in reality it is around 50 to 60% of what you see in these pictures.. do you agree?

bye

igor
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Post by Likay »

Agrees. Forgot to say that the cameras are not the most expensiest either.

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Post by Neil »

You got OpenGL to work with the iZ3D monitor with the 93.81 combo?

On my 7900, the monitor didn't polarize with those drivers. Did I misread?

Neil
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Post by Likay »

You're right. :oops: and i edited the post above.

Must have it mixed with either gaming with shutters or beamers...
Tried the 93.81 combo with no success. Tried 91.31 next with no luck either... Now bringing the scope to check my bio-memory.... maybe ageing is a fact? :oops:


cheers
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Post by Oruq »

Great review, Likay. Now I know that the problems I am having with ghosting on the 22" iZ3D monitor are also existing on your monitor, which tells me that the monitor I have isn't broken. It's just a crappy product.

I personally think that the iZ3D guys should stop wasting time with that monitor and implement additional stereo modes, then start selling their stereo drivers so people with different stereo "hardware" (2 monitors in planar setup, 2 projectors, shutter glasses, 3D monitors from other manufacturers) can start playing the latest games in real S-3D with the latest graphics cards and not depend on nVidia and their mercy to release something usable.

Costs for selling downloadable software on a simple webpage are next to zero. If they are worried that the drivers would eb pirated, they can implement some simple internet activation method. I'm not sure about the best price, since there are no real costs involved and the price would only depend on the number of sales, but I am sure that thousands of S-3D fans would be ready to pay $200 (I know I would) for decent stereo drivers, so they can use their favourite 3D stereo hardware today.

Regards,
Oruq
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Post by Neil »

Hi Oruq,

It's rare that I interject like this, but I think some of the things your are posting are inappropriate.

I can appreciate that for you, the iZ3D monitor isn't quite what you are looking for. Maybe your eyes are sharper than others, or maybe you have specific needs that others don't, and that's fine. You have a right to your opinion. However, every post I read from you includes some unrelated potshot at iZ3D. While I know I'm wrong, you come across as having the intention of causing harm to the company rather than actually reviewing their product.

If I can use myself as an example, Zalman and NVIDIA are not official sponsors of MTBS. Their current drivers haven't been released yet, so they are at a temporary disadvantage. Regardless, I'm respectful as is the majority of our members here.

I think you should take a moment to recognize that iZ3D and TDVision sponsor this site and this community. While I own and operate MTBS, and while I have sole control of this website, there is an obvious line between giving a product a poor review and purposely denigrating a product. Please be sensitive to my concerns on this matter and put some thought into how your posts help the community. I value your participation here and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Neil
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Post by Oruq »

Neil, if you find my post offending or too provocative, you have my permission to remove it and I will never again post about the iZ3D monitor or anything else related to iZ3D on your forums.

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Oruq
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Post by Neil »

It's not an issue of being offensive, it's an issue of being appropriate.

Regardless, I think I made my opinions clear, and we'll leave it at that.

Regards,
Neil
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Post by CarlKenner »

Zalman and Nvidia are colluding to stifle the rest of the stereoscopic industry. So a little less respect should be due to them.
iZ3D on the other hand are supporting everyone that they can (but they can't support pageflip because of Nvidia's traitorous collusion).

iZ3D are working to enable their stereoscopic support for devices like TDVisor, which have ZERO ghosting (in the stereo sense. The correct term is crosstalk. They may have some monoscopic ghosting, I don't know). So they are trying.

I paid Nvidia lots of money for a graphics card that could do stereo, and I got absolutely nothing from them. I paid iZ3D absolutely nothing, and they gave me (and everyone else) free universal 3D drivers for anaglyph.
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Post by Welder »

Mong wrote:Man i really want to buy this monitor but they only deal with credit cards(which i perfer not to have)...hmm i'm all cashed up and ready to purchase...sigh! :(

That may or may not be true,

I suggest emailing info@iz3d.com about this, he may be able to help you with that.
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Post by sharky »

welder wrote:
Mong wrote:Man i really want to buy this monitor but they only deal with credit cards(which i perfer not to have)...hmm i'm all cashed up and ready to purchase...sigh! :(

That may or may not be true,

I suggest emailing info@iz3d.com about this, he may be able to help you with that.
quote...
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Post by Neil »

I just wanted to add, I don't want members to feel censored on MTBS. I'm going through a learning curve with this community, and it is important that everyone be allowed to speak their mind. While sincere, I should have PMed Oruq rather than posting publicly about it, so that was my error.

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Neil
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Post by RAGEdemon »

I think one of the biggest problems with "bad reviews" is that the reviewer just doesn't appreciate the background and history of the technology... no offense to anyone intended.

New "reviewers" start reviewing the product without having experienced other technologies, with little to no experience with the drivers, and little knowledge of how it all works. All they have are their expectations which are set unrealistically high after watching movies like "The Matrix", "Lawnmower Man" and "Tron"

The comparison is made to an off the shelf product which they normally review. When it doesn't work almost perfectly straight out of the box, they give it a bad review.

Their view is "We, the consumers, shouldn't have to mess about" and to an extent, they are correct.

It is difficult to explain to them that the experience depends almost entirely on how you set it up and adjust it (considerable time should be spent attaining a good effect, not just a few seconds), and what they use as a comparison.

If it is adjusted badly (separation, convergence etc) then they will come away with very little. Of course, this is aggravated by the default driver values being mostly always completely wrong.
The comparison bit is also tricky. The reviewer has had virtually no experience with other products... they just don't know how bad the others are in comparison.

For a proper review, a first time user needs to sit down for a good half hour adjusting and experimenting with the settings to find the optimal setting that produce the best depth and pop-out for themselves. After this is found, he/she needs to go and play a game for a lengthy amount of time...say 4-6 hours, and every now and then, pop out of 3D back into 2D and play like that for a few minutes before going back into 3D. Only then can one truly appreciate the technology and what exactly is on offer. It is only at this point you realize how absorbed into the game you are. By now, the ghosting or other issues that bothered you at first glance are nothing in comparison to what you are now experiencing - your mind has filtered them out and the immersion is just so good that you just don't care.

I believe that this is the number one reason for reviewers giving mediocre to bad reviews of stereo products. The reviewer just doesn't spend enough time on it with a properly set-up game to appreciate what is actually happening.

In this particular case, if a person had spent the last 6 years playing games on a CRT with the nVidia driver like the vast majority of us - bare games without "special" effects (meh... has anyone seen oblivion with effects turned off vs on? :/) , ghosting galore, the need to tweak the game for 2 hours before even attempting to turn on stereo, the flicker - refresh and de-sync related; and then went and reviewed the the iZ3D, I think the opinion would be very different indeed.

Like everything in reality, there are no absolutes... everything is indeed subjective. But it helps to have a solid reference point for comparability and a lot of experience with similar products. A new comer with ideas right out of "the matrix" is only going to be left disappointed.


In this MTV short attention span generation, most just don't take the time to set things up properly and give things the time they deserve. If they did I am sure the experience would change them for life... and that right there is the saddest thing of all.

-- Shahzad.
Last edited by RAGEdemon on Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Mong »

How hard can it be to setup one these iZ3D monitors! C'mon!! while I was waiting for my monitor to arrive (2 weeks delivery) I was going around collecting valuable solutions on how to set up theses monitors. Sure it takes time but I enjoyed the challenge.....and now I've added my own tweeks on setting up, mostly on the nVidia Forceware driver.

And now with transparent ghosting on near view, yes FPS is my middle name :roll: I like to set the separation between 70 to 85% keeping the distance view nice and crisp. Not botherd by transparent ghosting, I hardly notice it after 1 week of gaming but thats my IMO. :wink:


Well it's back to gaming in fully blown Post proceeding effects turned on.


Later Dudes.
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Post by Likay »

Agrees fully! After gaming for quite some time with iz3d my personal opinion is that the iz3d itself (not counting the drivers) IS a great product! My review was to give people a hint (or more like a feel) and trying to show people how the iz3d is. It's also true that the eyes after a while adapts to the ghosting somehow and helps you making it less. Gaming on the iz3d is way better than gaming on a crt/E-D-shutterglasses rig but it doesn't beat a dual passive projection rig. It's a matter of cost though since such rig is at least three times expensier that the iz3d itself. Zalman might be a good choice if only nvidia straighten out the driverissue. Regardless of that: The iz3d-team is really working hard to improve the total gaminexperience (things are happening all the time) and i'm eagerly looking forward to their next move. :D

Ps: Even if the iz3d team releases more unified driver (yes, i will buy it) to suit a polarized rig (among others) i'll still probably game mostly on the iz3d. Occasional gaming with projectors are not good since turning on and off the lamps often is a real lamp killer. Having them lit all day is of course no option. :P Playing newer games on that rig with fresher stuff than a 7900 with "all bells and whistles on" is quite appealing though! :P

cheers
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buying the monitors

Post by walshlg »

I just bought my iZ3D. I love it. I held off buying because of the price. Then I found a reseller selling these on eBay. I emailed iZ3d and they said that it is legit, these are brand new monitors shipped directly from their warehouse. Watch these auctions, most of these iZ3d monitors are going for a little over $400, you can do better if you don't mind waiting for the right timing to bid. Considering a comparable 22" lcd is $280, the price is now right. FWIW.
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Post by yuriythebest »

right even though everyone who visits this place knows my position on the iz3d monitor and also has probably seen my video reviews of it I've still decided to do add it in text form


< insert explanation about what is stereo3d and a brief history of stereo3d and rant about nvidias stereodrivers here>

this monitor looks quite stylish even when turned off. However, before we go into the 3d aspect of this monitor let’s talk a little bit about the design.


It has a nice little logo of iz3d at the top left corner which instantly distinguishes it from any other flat boring monitor and tells the world that it’s the Ferrari of LCD’s. In fact I would not exchange this for

a flat monitor that is twice as big- it’s that good. However this would not be a fair review if I didn’t also talk about the downsides of this monitor. Well not so much downsides as things that could use improvement, and also some funny unique features and challenges that this monitor presents you with.

For one thing- it’s reflective- when turned off I use it as a mirror to see if my hair is ok. But when powered up apart from the slightly increased glossieness of it, which some may find is quite stylish , you soon learn to tune out the reflections and now I don't notice them at all (except not because I specifically remembered them and focused my eyes to see it).
I think this is because this glass is polarized so that you can see in 3d. So I can forgive this as a necessity.

The viewing angle in 2d mode is quite good from the sides and from below. However from high up the image does become overly bright. How ever few people work under such angles so it’s ok.




There was supposed to be an LED light , however it was just too bright so I scotch taped a piece of cardboard over it. However my subwoofers had the same problem, in fact there the light was almost like a laser. On the iz3d it’s just slightly distracting. An option to turn it off would be nice. The power button is pretty self explanatory. Next we have the menu. Now this is where the fun begins- if I click the menu button I get the option to adjust the brightness- that’s the only option! However I understand why they did it- brightness is actually directly linked to the ghosting, that is the undesired doubling effect many 3d solutions have. So instead of presenting you with many menus and submenus to adjust it they placed it right under your nose. Good thinking.

The auto buton is needed only if one of your cables is VGA- I’ve never had to use it.



If you have never seen stereoscopic 3d go to an IMAX or REALD theater to get a good idea of what it looks like.



Now lets talk about the actual 3d effect. It’s like a giant 22’ window to another world. A good analogy of what this looks like if you never experienced stereo3d is imagine if you broke everything out of your monitor and put little paper models of stuff inside- only those models run around and shoot at you!

Some games do work better than others, but if your game is in directX 9 - most new games are, it will most likely work.

Also, for those of you using shutterglasses and considering switching to an iz3d I can only say this- do you know that unfomfortable tingling sensation in your eyes when you stare too intensely at a 3d image? Also do your eyes get a little red after each game? Well fear no more! I was very surprised by this, but viewing stereo3d on an iz3d actually relaxes the eyes!! Yess!! Look at how white they are- no red dots. They used to be very red just a few days ago. Even though this monitor has more ghosting than shutteglasses, the fact that it’s so eye friendly far outweighs that problem, since you can play for as long as you like with impunity! Buahahahah!


Another aspect of the iz3d that’s worth mentioning is the tech support. This aspect is as awesome as the monitor itself. The people there are very helpful and will actually help you with your problems. In fact, the chief technical officer of IZ3d, mister vadim asadov regularly visits the company forums to help people out. How cool is that. Many companies just train people to give standard, bot-like, responses, well none of that here. Kudos to iz3d!

I have taken some time to test out many games, including team fortress 2, command and conquer renegade, star trek legacies, day of defeat source, aces of the galaxy, leisure suit larry, rayman 3, oblivion eleder scrolls and unreal tournament 3. Of course these aren’t the only games that work with the iz3d- if the game uses directx 8 or 9 it will most likely work, but my time was of course limited.

First off the ghosting in these games- after some testing, it becomes apparent that the ghosting on the iz3d behaves very differently from the shutterglass ghosting. Ghosting in shutterglasses is usually visible in dark areas, here it’s most apparent in games, or game areas, that is, that have very high contrast and bright areas. The ghosting is especially visible in bright, colorful games with plenty of visible blue skies- that included team fortress 2 and day of defeat. However while the ghosting was visible, it didn’t really disturb the gameplay in any noticeable fashion because the actual level doesn’t really ghost- it’s mainly the skies and you sort of learn to ignore it.

Command and conquer renegade had some very nice 3d, along with ghosting in open areas but inside there was little to no ghosting. I always find that older, blockier games like half life 1 have a very noticeable and exaggerated 3d effect. I have not yet been able to get the original half life to work using the iz3d but hopefully half life source will work, which is basically the exact same game with the exact same graphics only the water reflections and some other junk was improved.

Now one thing I did find that helps with severe outdoor ghosting is taking the clipons and using them together with the regular glasses. However iz3d going to start beta testing some better glasses with less ghosting quite soon now, so hopefully that will take care of that.

Now, of all the games I tested, 2 really stood out, that was aces of the galaxy, an obscure game I admit, but when viewed using an iz3d it does wonders. And also unreal tournament 3- that was probably the most realistic gaming experience I have had thus far. The game is very dark and grey, which unintentionally eliminates almost all of the ghosting. In fact unless you specifically look for ghosting you probably won’t see it in the game. The gameplay in stereo3d was just amazing. That game alone justifies having the iz3d monitor.



Iz3d is a very interesting company to keep track off. Soon we will have glasses with less ghosting, iz3d is also planning to release a 26 inch version sometime in the future. No information yet if that monitor will be somehow different hardware wise and if it will have less ghosting. Also everyone with shutterglasses will be pleased to know that iz3d will release shutterglass drivers any time now. They will of course cost something but your only other choice is to use some drivers from nvidia or endimensional.

Also, I’ve been reading a review somewhere that I shall not name which said “one of the downsides of owning an iz3d monitor is always being tied to the continuous string of driver updates”- as if it is a bad thing! I guess he would rather have that company say “oh here are your drivers for the next 10 years, go away and play now, chop chop!”… right.


Hope you found this review informative!


EDIT: one awesome thing that just dawned on me is that I no longer have to instantly disable 3d mode and lift/take off my glasses for fear of causing more damage than necessary to my eyes, which was sort of an instinct from my shutterglass days. I can now not take off my glasses when working on and off with stereoscopic imagery (saving to desktop, renaming, etc). Those of you with shutterglasses will understand how awesome this is.



EDIT2: added a stereophoto. Reverse left/right if image looks "wrong"

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Post by LukePC1 »

You realy put a lot of effort into this review. And I like the 3D pic without ghosting. But it is the 'wrong' direction to view it crosseyed. But the advantage of viewing it crosseyed is, that you don't add any additional ghosting. How did you do the 3D pic? Through the glasses?

And every solution has pros and cons, so you always have to choose and think about everything. I'm glad you talked about them, too.
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Post by yuriythebest »

thanks- it's actually a slightly modified version of the script for gamerus cleverus episodes 8 and 9 - I just though rather than it just lying around on my hard drive I'd post it here.

How did you do the 3D pic? Through the glasses?

using photoshop :)
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Post by LukePC1 »

yuriythebest1 wrote:
How did you do the 3D pic? Through the glasses?

using photoshop :)
were you modding a 2D image? Or did you use photoshop to put the two pictures form your digicam together?

If you want to cheat with the ghosting you could also display the picture for left, make a picture with a digicam, change the picture on the screen and take the other picture from the side.
That way you could get every screen to show 3D :lol:
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Post by yuriythebest »

LukePC1 wrote:
yuriythebest1 wrote:
How did you do the 3D pic? Through the glasses?

using photoshop :)
were you modding a 2D image? Or did you use photoshop to put the two pictures form your digicam together?

If you want to cheat with the ghosting you could also display the picture for left, make a picture with a digicam, change the picture on the screen and take the other picture from the side.
That way you could get every screen to show 3D :lol:

just some basic 3d compositing

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Post by LukePC1 »

so you were cheating... otherwise it would have too much reflections :D
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Post by phil »

Nice! That's the first time I've seen a 3D image of a 3D monitor - great idea :D I had no idea it was a composite.
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by navratilova »

Well friends, when I hook up the M1530 to an LCD monitor using HDMI-to-DVI, the screen looks like shades of green and magenta. I've tried several different cables and two different monitors. I'm also interested in any opinions about buy at a store, or buy online. How do you hook up a Dell XPS M1530 to an LCD Monitor going HDMI to DVI? Any comments will be greatly appreciated.
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by cirk2 »

have you tryed different adapters? it sounds like one color-component is missing
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StereoGaming4Me
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by StereoGaming4Me »

I just ordered one from newegg.. $319.99 total and free shipping. $30 discount and $50 promo code discount at the top of the page from $399.99.... order fast folks as other online retailers are selling them at $399 + shipping. The z800 would sell like hotcakes at the one previous price point of $549(rather than a ridiculous $1,400.00 that it went BACK up to) if S3D were more mainstream and more people saw it in action - no ghosting on it whatsoever but using the head tracking = insta-nausea.

Been waiting forever to try the iZ3D stereo solution and heard it is very good... uncertain about the popping out effect, however.




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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by yuriythebest »

StereoGaming4Me wrote: uncertain about the popping out effect, however.
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hopefully with the new glasses pop out will improve. atm it's more or less just pop-in with slight pop out but in some games like Red Alert 3 the v2 rocket really flies out of the screen almost hitting my teeth.
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by StereoGaming4Me »

The monitor arrived yesterday but I didn't hook it all up until today. For $319.99 total for a 22" ws iZ3D as a standalone regular ws lcd monitor.. wow. I haven't even tried the 3D yet as I'm waiting to hear back from David at iZ3D about using strictly an nvidia driver pair instead of their own proprietary drivers. The 93.71 combo works perfectly for the z800 and diy planar on a 7950gt 512.

If anyone is still reading this thread.. do you know if it only has brightness controls, or does it have contrast as well? This lcd is above and beyond bright! It did a manual, but haven't found out where I put it yet. I had to the the brightness to 12 just to see if comfortably(have had LASIK surgery so sensitivity to light, especially fluorescent) but as stated I have yet to try the 3D effect so I won't know how 12 brightness will affect S3D effect.

I almost wished this had the same "sparkle" effect as the one 17" I saw awhile back... some people didn't like it but I thought it was a masterpiece to look at.

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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by Neil »

There are no direct contrast controls, but maybe through the NVIDIA driver you can control this.

As for the stereo pair, it's a tough call. You will have to experiment. You may have to set up a dual boot to get the best of both worlds. I think tech support for you would be tough if your display drivers are unnaturally out of date.

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2 seldom-highlighted facts on iZ3D 22" monitor

Post by ssiu »

One positive and one negative (correct me if I'm wrong):

Positive: if your graphic card is not fast enough for S3D gaming in 1680x1050, you can game in a lower resolution and S3D continue to work! (By contrast, I don't think that will work on row-interleaved (Zalman Trimon) or checkerboard (DLP HDTV) S3D formats.)

Negative: no HDCP support! So if you're upgrading from a CRT monitor and want it as the single/universal 2D+3D monitor (which makes it easier to justify the premium over a regular 22" LCD monitor), you won't be able to play Bly-Ray movies, when the time comes that you want to adopt Blu-Ray. Or if you have a PS3 and want to use the iZ3D monitor for it (until you buy the right S3D HDTV that will support S3D console gaming and S3D Blu-Ray etc.), using HDMI-DVI cable and outputting 720p resolution and let the monitor scale it up, then you won't be able to view Blu-Ray with it.
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by chimchim »

I'm somewhat unclear on how exactly the IZ3D software + hardware is functioning.

I understand how the polarization screen can increase/decrease relative intensity of a given pixel for each eye, IF the pixel is the same color. I also understand how each eye can perceive a full 1680 x 1050 if viewing a 2D screen.

What I don't understand is what the effective resolution perceived by each eye is for a frame that is full of 3-D objects. A given pixel that is red for the left eye can't be blue for the right, can it? In an extreme example, if the left eye is supposed to see only red pixels, and the right eye only blue, then the total resolution available for each eye is 1680 X 1050 X 0.5 pixels. I don't know if the IZ3D algorithm makes it 1680 X 525, or 825 X 1050, or if it uses something like a checkerboard pattern (I would guess the latter), but I think that IZ3D is somewhat evasive on the resolution issue.

Apparently, this works well, whatever the algorithm is, and it's worth pointing out that screen-depth objects, such as text, would have full resolution available to both eyes, making it largely moving objects that have reduced resolution.

I'm also unclear on whether a pixel that is equally bright in both eyes in 3-D mode is as bright as in 2-D mode. Wouldn't the polarized glasses reduce the light (to 0.707 brightness, perhaps)?
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by yuriythebest »

chimchim wrote:but I think that IZ3D is somewhat evasive on the resolution issue.
no not really- there is no resolution loss in 3d mode. Also the glasses, while they do have some dimming it is very slight and you don't really notice it- shutterglasses are much darker I think. Regarding the technology behind it, some links:

http://iz3d.com/t-3dproductex.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and

Suppose we need to show white to the left eye and black to the right eye. In this case the first panel of the monitor displays white and the second panel is set to a polarization of 0 degrees. As a result, the left lens lets the light pass while the right lens obstructs it.

What if the picture is then inverted so that the right eye saw white? The first panel doesn’t have to change anything. It is only necessary to turn the polarization plane by 90 degrees in the second panel, and the eyeglasses will show you a different picture.

And what if both eyes must see gray? It is simple: if the polarization plane is rotated by 45 degrees with the second matrix, each lens will let half the light pass and each eye will see gray. Note that this can be done for each out of the 1,764 million pixels individually.

To cut it short, the adjustment of the angle of polarization with the second matrix from 0 to 90 degrees changes the distribution of light from the first matrix between the right and left eyes. Thus, two things are needed to create a stereoscopic image on the iZ3D:

* The pixels of the first matrix show the total of the images for the left and right eyes.
* The pixels of the second matrix define what percent of light from each pixel of the first matrix comes to the left and right eye respectively.

The advantages of this design are obvious. To start with, this monitor can work as an ordinary 2D monitor. It has a full resolution of 1680x1050 for both 2D and 3D modes, and a full refresh rate of 60Hz in 3D mode. It works together with passive eyeglasses.

hope this helped!
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by chimchim »

I understand how white-grey-black can be represented to both eyes by the same white pixel on the back panel. It is the same color, with different intensity levels. But I don't understand how red:left/blue:right, green/yellow, etc., could be represented by the same pixel on the back panel.

Looking at the linked IZ3D page, http://iz3d.com/t-3dproductex.aspx, bottom graphic, obviously white can be represented to both eyes without issue (except for some diminishment in intensity, compared to not wearing polarized glasses), but when the objects overlap, you run into issues. IZ3D chooses to show identically colored objects in their graphic, but this will surely not often be the case in a dynamic 3D game. We are dealing with 32-bit colors.

IZ3D must, IMO, be using some kind of smoothing algorithm for overlapping, unique images, such as checkerboarding contiguous pixels. (Who knows, maybe they displace the checkerboard pattern every 1/60 sec. to smooth it even more.) I don't doubt from the reviews that it works well to fool the eye, but it does somewhat belie the "full 1680 X 1050 for each eye" selling point.

I hope there's an answer to this, by the way, and I'm genuinely trying to learn about this. I got an IZ3D for Christmas yesterday (still in the box), so I am a customer.
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by BlackShark »

Color and polarisation is adjusted at the sub-pixel level. But it's easier (and shorter) to talk about pixels rather than the independant RGB sub-pixels.
It's the way all LCD pannels work.
So the pixels are exactly the same as all LCD monitors, so the resolution is exactly the same as on other LCD monitors equipped with TN technology based pannels.

The only thing i wonder is if the iZ3D monitor is able to keep the 24bit color depth through the back/front conversion (32 bit color is RGB+Alpha, monitors use 24 bits : 8 bits per RGB subpixel).
I've heard somewhere that almost all LCD pannels were able to work with 10 bit precision but it was just the electronics (monitor, cable and GPU) that were limiting (i think the quadro and FireGL GPUs have 10 bit precision outputs and the nvidiaGTX280 is the 1st mainstream GPU with 10 bit precsion but no content uses it)

So i was wondering if the iZ3D monitor had something in the internal electronics that make the iZ3D monitor capable of keeping the 24 bit color depth in 3D mode ?
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by chimchim »

So each pixel on the front panel has 3 polarization filters, for the sub-pixel R-G-B?

What brought this to mind was the following quote from Andrew Fear, senior product manager at NVidia:
Right now we truly believe that our solution – the active shutter glasses — provide the best quality for an end-user. The technology that exists for passive polarized is typically only given to you at half-resolution per eye. If you imagine you’re running a monitor at 1680×1050, each eye will only see 1680×525, effectively, because of how the polarization technique has to be done on the LCD in order to show the right eye and hide the left eye. Certainly over time that can be improved; right now, that’s what it is. If you’ve ever seen half-resolution per eye, you know what happens is that the quality of reading text, and the quality of the image, is not as good as you’d like. Some people just don’t think the quality is that good.
http://www.gamecyte.com/is-your-gaming- ... oscopic-3d

Does this NVidia Senior Product Mgr. have it completely wrong? That may be the case, but it would be surprising to me.
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by chimchim »

Another quote from Andrew Fear, showing that he was explicitly refering to IZ3D:
I think if you look at the solution they have versus ours, IZ3D has some pluses. Some people like passive solutions, they don’t like active solutions, so that’s one reason they might choose them. The downside of that is like I talked about earlier, you’re going to get less resolution, less quality for the game.
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by Tril »

BlackShark wrote:Color and polarisation is adjusted at the sub-pixel level. But it's easier (and shorter) to talk about pixels rather than the independant RGB sub-pixels.
It's the way all LCD pannels work.
So the pixels are exactly the same as all LCD monitors, so the resolution is exactly the same as on other LCD monitors equipped with TN technology based pannels.
There's only one angle per pixel, not per sub-pixel. This was said by BlackQ (iZ3D employee) in the iZ3D forums here (see third post).
chimchim wrote:I understand how white-grey-black can be represented to both eyes by the same white pixel on the back panel. It is the same color, with different intensity levels. But I don't understand how red:left/blue:right, green/yellow, etc., could be represented by the same pixel on the back panel.
For the back panel, the intensity of each sub-pixel is averaged (average of red left and red right, average of green left and green right, average of blue left and blue right).

For the front panel, the polarization angle is decided based on comparing the brightness of the original pixel of each eye (red, green and blue of left eye added together, red green and blue of right eye added together; the two numbers are used to choose the polarization angle).
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by chimchim »

Tril, so there is no way for a single pixel to show as red in one eye, and blue in another? You would average them and both eyes would perceive purple? That seems like a significant problem.

That's why I was wondering if there was an algorithm to checkerboard in such instances.
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Re: iZ3D 22" LCD monitor review

Post by BlackShark »

Tril wrote:There's only one angle per pixel, not per sub-pixel. This was said by BlackQ (iZ3D employee) in the iZ3D forums here (see third post).
That's quite surprizing, i wasn't expecting this.
Especially since the example iz3d shots shown on iz3d website contain colour in the polarisation image.
Passive 3D forever !
DIY polarised dual-projector setup :
2x Epson EH-TW3500 (2D 1080p)
Xtrem Screen Daylight 2.0, for polarized 3D
3D Vision gaming with signal converter : VNS Geobox 501
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