[WIP] My Passive 3D Stereo with Dual Projectors Experiment

[Lucky]

Hi there!

I have been known to dabble in many DIY projects, sometimes I complete them sometimes I don't.

Anyways, seeing that I recently bought a second identical projector - I want to give this Passive 3D a shot. I've used LCD Shutter Glasses before, but in reality I found them to be more of a novelty than something I'd like to use on an ongoing basis. Shutter glasses gave me headaches and dried out my eyes, I'm hoping that Passive 3D will be something I really enjoy.

I have two Optoma EzPro 756 DLP Projectors:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-EzPro_756.htm

I have bought two 45/135 Linear Polarizing Glasses:


For the fun of it, I also bought two Anaglyph Glasses:


I have yet to buy my Polarizers and a non-dePolarizing screen. I am open to suggestions on these.

Oh, one more thing that I have to do. I have to get a new video card, currently I have an ATI x1900xtx but this won't do. I am thinking I will buy a 7900 Geforce. Ultimately what I would like to do is have the ATI card in one PCIe slot and the GeForce in the other PCIe slot. Can I do this? I have an ASUS P5W DH (Crossfire) motherboard.

[sharky]

i also had shutterglasses.. now i use a iZ3D monitor and it is DRAMATICALLY better than with shuterglasses.. no eye problems anymore...

[Lucky]

So many options Sharky! The more I read about 3D, the more I learn that there is so many options when it comes to 3D Stereo technology. Anyways, I must continue with my chosen route. I just bought my two Polarizers from 3DLens. They are roughly 5"x7" in size, I will use their adhesive side to glue them to sheets of Lexan. Here are the specs:

• - 8 inch LCD Polarizer
  - Size: 138mm x 172mm
  - Optical type: Transmissive
  - Transmittance: single(42.5%) ; parallel(36%) ; crossed(0.05%)
  - Color: neutral gray
  - Polarizing efficiency: 99.72%
  - Absorption axis: 45?
  - Wavelength: 400~700nm
  - UV protection: Yes
  - Wide viewing angle: Yes
  - Adhesive force: >100g/25mm
  - Thickness: 0.22mm
  - Direction: linear
  - Durability: 60?C / 90%RH / 750Hours test passed
  - Adhesive glue: one side
  - Protective film: both sides
  - Application: 8 inch TFT LCD repair, LCD TV repair, iPod, iPhone repair, notebook computer, cell phone, PDA, digital camera, GPS ...

* Please remove the protective film before using polarizer.

[sharky]

i don't knwo if the lexan thing is a good idea...

lexan and plexyglass can completely block UV lights.. i don't know what they do to polarized light.. you could try, if it doesn't work you know why..

[Lucky]

If thats the case I'll order some Optical Glass. I know where to get it cheap, the thing is is that I already have some Lexan on hand. By the way, I did look on the net for Lexan and it's properties regarding polarization but I couldn't find anything relative. If anyone finds anything I'd be interested in knowing.

Thanks for the continued input Sharky! It's nice to know someone is following along.

[sharky]

don't worry.. there are a lot of people following.. just look at the views.. continue with that good work.. i got a nice iZ3d for my work here..

by the way, lexan has another problem: it is not 100% plain. it can be used as glass for windows, but i think that in projection the quality of the glass has to be superior. but maybe i am wrong. glass has also a problem. it warms up really fast compared to lexan! and lexan if it gets warm it bends very easyly.

i would use glass and keep it at at least one or two inces away of the lense.

let me know how it works and what you think!

bye

[Lucky]

I might be mistaken, but it is my belief that Lexan is highly tolerable to heat, has good optical qualities (for my needs) but I don't know about any effects on Polarized light. Anyways, it will probably be a month before all my parts arrive.

I just bought a projector stand, it holds three projectors. I was originally going to build my own I even started it but this one seems far superior to anything I could build on my own.

[sharky]

hi! there is a password needed for your pics.. please upload them somewhere else.

by the way, lexan is not that much heat resistant. at 150?C it bends. i don't know how much degrees your projector emitts, but if the lesan gets bend onla a LITTLE BIT (half mm is enough) then you have a distorted image. you can try but i would go for a thick glass.. has a perfect heat resistance and due to its thickness it can dissipate the heat.. and it has a much better optical quality then plexiglass or lexan. and it is cheaper, and is not allergic to scratches..

bye

sharky

[Lucky]

Oops. It's fixed now.

[sharky]

its cool! how much did this one cost?

it looks very expensive..

[Lucky]

Well, it wasn't cheap! The real killer was the shipping, it's coming from the East Coast of the US and I am on the West Coast of Canada. I don't want to share the price, it was far too much! But thanks, I think it's of rather good quality myself. A lucky find.

P.S. I sure hope this Passive 3D system is worth it! I'm just kind of jumping head first.

[Jahun]

Nice thread! More passive projection people these days it seems


My 2 cents:

I have a custom made wooden wall mount for my projectors, they have lense shift so it I don't need any real special expensive mounts that can be tilted themselves. If your projector has lense shift, it is easy to make a crude mount yourself for like 20$. Works perfect for me..

Furthermore, I got polarizers from polarization.com I believe.. it came on 3 mil or so backing. Real cheap and works perfect.. Don't think lexa or so will give you problems, it won't get that hot easy..

Projectors, and silver screen are very expensive, all the other pieces in the equipment needed can be very cheap..


ps: Lucky, check my threads on passive stereo and silver screens.. I tested the 3 leading brands I could get here in Europe.. Feel free to ask though..

[Lucky]

Hi Jahun, Thanks!

I have been following your thread, the screen is my next purchase - well that and I need an Nvidia card. However I have reigned in my spending, this got expensive quick! The shipping on that projector stand alone was $60! I have to sell some things on Ebay to raise some more cash. Besides I really won't have all the parts for at least three weeks I imagine.

As far as a the screen goes I am thinking I might just cheap out and buy an older da-lite silver screen just to test with. If I am happy I will fork out the cash for a larger screen.

Lens Shift: my projectors do not have that feature so I am stuck tilting them and then correcting the tilt via Keystoning.

Anyways, thanks again for the input. Oh yeah, I don't think the Lexan will cause any problems either.

Dan

[Jahun]

yes it does get expensive quick..
I am trying not to calculate how much I spent

But then again, it is a supersweet gaming experience..


I never tried a Da-lite, let us know how it works!
The silverfabric I have, was 300 euro for 2.1 meters by 1.225., just for reference.

Ow and make sure you can darken the room perfectly or at least have black borders around the screen. It helps alot.

[Likay]

Well. Lucky... It's expensive but aim for the result and you'll get there sooner or later. The rig i have cost a lot (not mention how much either) but it's really superior to play 3d in almost nature size!

Cheers!

(World needs more passive projection! Why not hijack an IMAX cinema?)

[Lucky]

I bought a screen for testing. This should be good for S3D Projection, but I'll guess I'll find out soon enough. Other than that, the rest of my stuff has arrived - I just need a GeForce card, does anyone want to donate one?

[sharky]

looks good.. nope i don't have a gf to donate.. i only have a 8800 and really lo have feelings for it.. i only would hope taht the dog doesn't pee on the screen.. nice dog by the way... just a question. are in all the silverscreens those vertical lines?

[Lucky]

LOL - It's not my dog, and that's NOT my carpet! Those are the pics I viewed when I bought it. Anyways, those vertical lines - I believe those are what makes this a lenticular screen. I don't know if it will affect anything, but I do know that these screens were used before we were even born for 3D projection. This particular screen is older than me!

PS. Don't you ever work Sharky? I'm home sick, that's my excuse.



Since the topic of pets was brought up, this is my cat. He has no name.

[sharky]

work? yes i work 8/10 hours every day and sometimes the weekend too.. but since i have known mtbs my limit is 9 hours and no weekends.. its like drugs.. i put evey free minute i have in mtbs.. now its 7.30 am here n 10 mins i goto work.. but only till friday.. i gave dimissions there after a year for good reasons.. i am going to search for a new job next week..

"no name"? curious name for a cat but i like it..

older than you? how old are you?

[Lucky]

I'm 31 Sharky...

Projector Screen arrived today, I've tested my polarizers by placing one in front of the projector and wearing the glasses. Seems to work pretty good at blocking out the unwanted light however there is still a faint image. I suppose this what gives the ghosting. I might experiment further with different polarizers if I keep this setup.

Until then, I just need one more component, an Nvidia video card. I've had my eye on a pair of ASUS Geforce 7900GTX cards. I can't decided wether to plunk down cash for both of these (they have other uses) or just buy the cheapest Geforce I can find. I wish I had a card to try with today.

[Lucky]

Well, I made my decision:


I now have two of these badboys! ASUS 7900GTX.

I don't really want to mess with my computer and drivers, etc. but it's inevitable.

[Likay]

Nice ones! Only have the GT version here. Good luck with your 3d-rig. Looks like you're really on the go!

cheers

[Lucky]

Ok, well I tried it!

I have to admit, the stereo effect seemed far better using Shutter Glasses and my CRT monitor. At least I remember it being far better than what I have just experienced. I think the "fault" lies in the screen that I have, it's lenticular and thus affects image quality in a negative fashion. The other drawback I found was differences in whites from the Left Eye and the Right Eye. One of my projectors has a new lamp the other has probably a 1000 hours on it.

Is it worth me dumping $5-600 on a Silver Screen? I don't know, I think I might take these two projectors and mount them side by side for a 2048x768 sized screen. I've even been thinking of buying a third, seeing that I have bought (but not recieved) a Digital TripleHead2Go adapter. I don't know, if my screen was bigger, if it was clearer and if my projector bulbs were "even" I might have taken more of a liking to this 3D setup. It's neat, but I'm not sure I find it worth it.

Pros
- No Flicker
- A neat novelty that you can easily share with others (just need more glasses)

Cons (at least in my setup)
- Uneven lighting for the Left and Right Eyes
- Unclear / Too small of a Screen
- Washed out colours

It seems to me that I used to be able to have more control over the stereo effects when I had my Shutter Glasses. Didn't there used to be a "z" plane that could be adjusted as well as the distance between the eyes? The only adjustments that I had were <Ctrl+F3/F4> and <Ctrl+G> for gamma.

I bet you if I had a better screen I'd have liked this more. Now I am going to try using NView to play Call of Duty in 2048x768 resolution.

~Lucky

[Jahun]

Hmm... too bad to hear you are not so happy about it.

What is exactly "thus affects image quality in a negative fashion", very unclear to me. Ghosting? Hotspots? Dull?


On your projectors:
yeah it helps to have them both quite equal. You can play with brightness, gamma and contrast to get them more or less equal though. Should be doable, in the worst case your best projector will have to adapt to the crappier one. Might take some tweaking though, but also in a side by side way, it will be a problem if they are very uneven..


On your 3D:
"e only adjustments that I had were <Ctrl+F3/F4> and <Ctrl+G> for gamma. "

Yes you are missing one there I am not sure which, since I relabeled all my shortcuts but you need to play with both seperation and convergence (the convergence shortcut options are not in the same window in control panel as seperation oddly, just look for them). There is a post here somewhere that discusses what the nice setting types are.. but spend some time playing with them for yourself.

Then you can truly tune the look.
I would always prefer 3D above 2 projectors side by side for wide viewing.

On the screen:
If you live in Europe, you can have a nice silverscreen for +- 300 euro (2.1 meter by 1.2 meter or so) from Silverfabric. I have one of those, and am very happy with it.

[Freke1]

Default shortcuts settings:
Separation adjustment: <Ctrl+F3/F4>
Convergence adjustment: <Ctrl+F5/F6>

[Lucky]

Damn.... you had to give me those shortcut keys didn't you?

I have taken the S3D configuration down and I just finished aligning the monitors side by side! haha... Oh well, at least I have them somewhat colour matched now. Playing Call of Duty is great widescreen like this, it feels more natural, but I have to admit, it's almost too much screen.

I'll retry the S3D setup.

~Lucky

[Lucky]

Default shortcuts settings:
Separation adjustment: <Ctrl+F3/F4>
Convergence adjustment: <Ctrl+F5/F6>

Those Shortcuts made all the difference in the world! Now I can properly adjust the 3d.

I just need a bigger screen... there's SilverFabric in Germany? Harkness Hall located where? And was it Da-Lite that was my other option? We should have a Sticky thread listing all the available screen manufacturers...

[Likay]

Jahun had a really good thread. He tested alot of silverscreens with slightly different results. Myself i have one from silverfabric in Germany and that works quite ok. Haven't tried any other though. Pm Jahun and i'm quite sure he'll help you out.

cheers

[Lucky]

Yeah, he deleted it for some reason?? I can't figure out why he did that. I also can't figure out how to setup my living room..... *sigh*, too many problems. lol

[Lucky]

If anyone is interested I will sell my projectors, the stand, glasses, polarizers and screen. I'm just more interested in another project right now. Don't be shy, email me.

~Lucky

[sharky]

heheh if there would be working drivers for that, and you would sell it in lets say 4 months i would buy it...

bye

sharky

[Lucky]

What do you need drivers for? You could also buy the GeForce 7900 cards. Anyways, I am in no hurry to sell this stuff, I just wanted to put the idea out there because if someone wanted it they could have it. Maybe in four months I'll still have it? We'll see.

~Lucky

P.S. For anyone new to this thread, all of my equipment that you see in these pics is for sale.

[sharky]

nope, i plan to switch to a series 9 as soon as theyre out and the price drops under 600$ for the ultra model... want to play dx10 in 3d.. and that card is also dx10.1 compatible so it should be fine for at least one year..so i need to have a driver compatible with that fture cad to buy any hardware..

[Lucky]

These video cards are now listed on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... :IT&ih=015

[Lucky]

The video cards have been sold. I still have the projectors, the stand, the glasses and the screen for sale if anyone wants to contact me about them.

[Lucky]

I just finally listed my projectors on Ebay and sold, just now! LOL - I am so slow at things sometimes. Anyways, the person who bought them wants to set them up for 3D and that has me thinking... If I bought a second BenqQ W9000 I could do 3D in 1920x1200 resolution!!!! That's a dangerous thought..... hopefully I won't (for money reasons) but it's on my mind.

[nubie]

Do it, do it, do it.

I mean, don't. I would so try it if I could. I had an 800x480 dual polarized setup (LCD projectors with a mirror.) It came to me that I could have dual-polarized on a desk with desktop monitors, that is why I built my Planar setup.

Yikes! that is expensive, I bought all my cars together for less money! ($300, 400, 500), of course that doesn't count what I put into them after, or the work I did.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0210427105

$2,000 is a chunk, if there was some high-def movies, or at the least some 8 or 9 series support for dual VGA you could probably justify it.

Did you ever find a good silver screen? I found an online store that has them shipped from the Da-lite factory, and it was under $200 for 100" diagonal (square) screen, brand new.

[epsen83]

Anybody know of online international dealers of harkness 3d screens?

[Tril]

Look at their websites and ask them.

http://www.harkness-screens.com/resellers.htm
http://www.harkness-screens.us/resellers.htm

[sandymacphee]

I have been experimenting with different paints to use as a screen for my dual passive projection system. First I tried some Krylon metallic silver spray paint ($6 a can at WalMart), I was very surprised when it worked! I found it very difficult to spray the paint evenly on my wall (basement ...........my girlfriend would kill me if I tried it upstairs), so I tried finding some of the same paint that I could roll on instead. A trip to the local Home Hardware later, and I landed home with a quart of metallic Aluminum rust paint. It cost about $12, and to my surprise it works way better than the spray paint I tried early. The image was considerably brighter, there is virtually no ghosting, there is very little ambient light reflection from the surface, and it rolled on very evenly. I think I may try to sand it very lightly to see if that improves it very much, but I think I'm going to stick with my $12 solution instead of forking out $500 on a silver screen that will probably not be much better.

I've tried rFactor, LiveforSpeed, F1 99-02, COD2, COD4, and FlightSim X all with excellent results. I have also viewed several 3D movies on StereoscopicPlayer, and the 3D quality is excellent.

120" diagnol
Benq PB6200
Optoma SP7600 (EP716 re-done)
8800 GT
Intel Core Duo E4300 @ 2.7Ghz
Windows XP