It's official....shutter glasses + DLP better than polarised

[Gae43]

Well I went to see "Final Destination" in 3D last night and even though the 3D looked nice, especially in HD, there were several moments throughout the film where ghosting was evident. Not enough to spoil my enjoyment (of the 3D, not the film) but I get no ghosting with my set up.....Extreme 3D system + Stereoscopic Player (using page flip) + X1 Infocus DLP projector.

Apart from the HD element, I can confidently say that I get better quality 3D in the home than I see in the Cinema. Now, just for more content to watch!!

Gae43

[Likay]

I take your challenge!
I believe cinemas have some amount of ghosting because they use circular polarization (possible?). Using linear and a decent silverscreen and good filters will give an equal ghosting as, but better experience than shutters and dlp because it's way brighter!

Just cheating you a little. Congratz to your rig! 3d-gaming on a big screen gives a so much better experience than a small desktop. 3D gains more immersion on a big screen than 2D going up some screensizes.

[Gae43]

Hi Likay.....I don't actually play 3D games on my setup as there is no driver support for my card (Geforce 8400GS) under WinXP. I do watch movies and 3D clips though and when the source is perfect, both left and right balanced, the 3D is excellent.
With regards brightness, I use page flip and it is much better (for brightness) than when interlaced. Also, I boost up the brightness settings on my card and when viewed in a darkened room (i.e. like the cinema) I don't see much difference in brightness than the RealD 3D that I've seen in the Cinema. The main difference with the Infocus X1 that I use is that it's only 800x600 res, unlike the HD res of the cinema. Still, DVDs look great and I'm still totally addicted to watching 3D on a 76" screen....

Gae43

[cybereality]

Ummm.. no its not. Either the theater you went to had a ghetto setup or you are smoking some serious stuff.

I have seen nearly every 3D film released since 2007 in RealD digital theaters (including The Final Destination) and I can tell you for a fact that there is NO ghosting whatsoever. I am not doubting the quality of your home rig, but I question the experience you had in the RealD theater. It does not coincide with my own experience and, like I said, I have seen at least a dozen films in RealD. However I do agree that the home experience can be a better one. I can certainly achieve greater depth and/or pop-out in 3D games at home than I have seen in any film (barring some IMAX3D films which had an almost holographic quality to them). So I hear where you are coming from, but RealD has *NO* ghosting.

[Gae43]

Ummm.. no its not. Either the theater you went to had a ghetto setup or you are smoking some serious stuff.

I have seen nearly every 3D film released since 2007 in RealD digital theaters (including The Final Destination) and I can tell you for a fact that there is NO ghosting whatsoever.

I'll have a word with my local Cineworld then!!!

Gae43

[pixel67]

Ummm.. no its not. Either the theater you went to had a ghetto setup or you are smoking some serious stuff.

I have seen nearly every 3D film released since 2007 in RealD digital theaters (including The Final Destination) and I can tell you for a fact that there is NO ghosting whatsoever. I am not doubting the quality of your home rig, but I question the experience you had in the RealD theater. It does not coincide with my own experience and, like I said, I have seen at least a dozen films in RealD. However I do agree that the home experience can be a better one. I can certainly achieve greater depth and/or pop-out in 3D games at home than I have seen in any film (barring some IMAX3D films which had an almost holographic quality to them). So I hear where you are coming from, but RealD has *NO* ghosting.

Sorry, but i too have seen nearly every 3D movie that has been released in recent years and minor ghosting has been visible in nearly every one. setup? Maybe. I think the technology needs a little more refinement before it is 100%. But, 95% is ohh soo good on a huge screen!

[Kamus]

Well I went to see "Final Destination" in 3D last night and even though the 3D looked nice, especially in HD, there were several moments throughout the film where ghosting was evident. Not enough to spoil my enjoyment (of the 3D, not the film) but I get no ghosting with my set up.....Extreme 3D system + Stereoscopic Player (using page flip) + X1 Infocus DLP projector.

Apart from the HD element, I can confidently say that I get better quality 3D in the home than I see in the Cinema. Now, just for more content to watch!!

Gae43

Come on...
An X1 with shutters? oh come on...

[martinlandau]

Ummm.. no its not. Either the theater you went to had a ghetto setup or you are smoking some serious stuff.

LOL! Cyber you kill me - I am rolling in the floor. I saw louie anderson once at the hard rock casino in Tampa, he asked me what the hell was I smoking, and to give him some! LOL!

The only ghosting I remember recently down here in Tampa - they had just sentenced Paul Little - "Max Hardcore" - because of his artistic expressions - and one of his Actresses - Penelope Flowers threw a party that one of my girlfriends took me too, and we all went to see nightmare before Xmas, and I remember ghosting in some of the scenes when he went to santa's village, but maybe it was the high contrast!

[Gae43]

Come on...
An X1 with shutters? oh come on...

Believe what you want ....I have no way of proving it.....but I'm very happy with my 3D set up on a 76" screen and I think the 3D quality, measure for measure, is on a par with the RealD films that I've seen in the cinema.

I'll just keep on enjoying watching my converted side by side movies in 3D in the comfort of my own home.

Gae43

[Likay]

Adding some more fire:
Liseberg's Maxxima has an imax cinema polarized rig. Unfortunately they only show that pandavision movie which contains 3d-takeouts from the Imax movie sos-planet. I know for sure that they use polarization but i'm (shame on me for not checking) uncertain if it's linear or circular.
There is a small amount of ghosting seeing this movie on the cinema though. It's way enjoyable but a small amount of ghosting is there. One thing that may interfere with ghosting could be the screen. The screen is made of metal in a "beecake" pattern and then probably painted with a polarizationpreserving paint. The holes in the screen is for audible reasons. I believe the center channel is localized behind the screen. However: When comparing this cinema with my projector rig there's quite less ghosting in my rig. There has to be very high contrasts to be visible and it simply doesn't happen when gaming or watching movies. It's also brighter but again it's only 100" compared to the huge screen in the cinema.

[cybereality]

I really can't believe this. Gae43 is claiming a 7 year old SVGA (800x600) projector running at 85Hz with some generic shutter glasses that are just as old are somehow better than a state-of-the-art 4K x 4K professional-grade digital projector with a 144Hz Z-screen and circular polarized passive glasses?!?!?!?!? Come on, someone back me up here.

[pixel67]

I really can't believe this. Gae43 is claiming a 7 year old SVGA (800x600) projector running at 85Hz with some generic shutter glasses that are just as old are somehow better than a state-of-the-art 4K x 4K professional-grade digital projector with a 144Hz Z-screen and circular polarized passive glasses?!?!?!?!? Come on, someone back me up here.

Sorry, i had his exact same setup and it was very good. The only drawbacks were resolution and a slight tint difference in each eye. but, no ghosting. at all. same with my current dlp setup.

[Gae43]

I really can't believe this. Gae43 is claiming a 7 year old SVGA (800x600) projector running at 85Hz with some generic shutter glasses that are just as old are somehow better than a state-of-the-art 4K x 4K professional-grade digital projector with a 144Hz Z-screen and circular polarized passive glasses?!?!?!?!? Come on, someone back me up here

I didn't say any of that.

OK, all I'm saying is that I can get 3D as good as the type of 3D that I see in the cinema......translated means that I don't have to watch the home movie releases in crappy anaglyph.

Yes the cinema resolution is far superior
Yes the screen is bigger
Yes, there is often more ghosting
No it's not necessarily brighter

All I'm saying is that I'm happy that I can view 3D movies in a similar way that I view them in the cinema.
The thread title I admit was mis-leading and a bit of word play on my part...ha ha.

Please close the thread now.

Gae43

[Freke1]

It's logical that a 100 inch projectorscreen looks brighter than a 50 feet projectorscreen, I think. Roughly same amount of light on a smaller area.

I've been in a polarized theme park cinema and couldn't tell where the ghosting was unless I lifted the glasses.

The drawback of my cinema experience was the somewhat lack of light (not because of glasses, but because of screen size) and the incorrectly adjusted 3D. Didn't ruin the awesome experience though.
Good to hear the same is achievable at home

[Kamus]

Come on...
An X1 with shutters? oh come on...

Believe what you want ....I have no way of proving it.....but I'm very happy with my 3D set up on a 76" screen and I think the 3D quality, measure for measure, is on a par with the RealD films that I've seen in the cinema.

I'll just keep on enjoying watching my converted side by side movies in 3D in the comfort of my own home.

Gae43

First off, all the conversions are sub par, the colors are not great on those. I know because i have a few of those movies myself. (i use 2 720p projectors with Dolby 3D glasses.)
Second of all, an X1 is an 800x600 projector with horrible contrast, a 2x color wheel and 60 Hz, which for shutters means 30Hz for each eye. (how can you even bear this? the flicker is HORRIBLE at 30 Hz per eye!)
Since this is a 4:3 800x600 projector, it also means any widescreen movie you have is horribly scaled down, you can't even get full res DVD on that.

So, no. the 3d quality can't be on par with a Real D setup. (I've seen most 3d releases on Real D) i don't think is possible for Real D setup to have such a bad theater that an X1 (with shutters!) would beat it under any circumstances. (even if it was bad, it'd still be a LOT better than 30 Hz per eye, watching anaglyph conversions on an 800x600 projector with terrible CR.)

People will say anything to feel good about their belongings...

Really, i know we're subjective animals. But it doesn't hurt to try at least "seem" objective. (to really be objective we need measurements.)
Also, you said you have no way of proving it, the data you provided says a lot by itself:

Real D = Passive, minimal ghosting.
X1 with shutters = 30 Hz per eye, UNBEARABLE flicker.

With just that we debunk the whole "3d quality" argument.

That's not even taking into account other, REALLY important PQ aspects such as contrast ratio, which happens to be horrid in the X1 compared to the projectors used by real D, or resolution, (2k vs 800x600.) or color (16 million colors vs billions of colors.)
and more importantly the source... pristine 2k source vs a DVD anaglyph conversion with less than acceptable colors.

It's one to be happy about the stuff you own, or how proud you are of it, but don't delude yourself.

[pixel67]

He likes his 3D solution and it fits his needs. If he can't tell the difference then great! The only thing i didn't like was the low resolution but 8x AA made a huge difference in games for me. I would still have it today if 3D DLP didn't make an appearance.

[Gae43]

Real D = Passive, minimal ghosting.
X1 with shutters = 30 Hz per eye, UNBEARABLE flicker.

With just that we debunk the whole "3d quality" argument.

That's not even taking into account other, REALLY important PQ aspects such as contrast ratio, which happens to be horrid in the X1 compared to the projectors used by real D, or resolution, (2k vs 800x600.) or color (16 million colors vs billions of colors.)
and more importantly the source... pristine 2k source vs a DVD anaglyph conversion with less than acceptable colors.

Wow, you guys are taking my original post so seriously.....incidentally, I can get 85 Hz at 1024 x 768 resolution (with no flicker) and some of my DVDs are original, side by side or field sequential 3D movies with perfect left and right sides.
Please re-read my original post and you will see that nowhere have I said that my "setup" or "system" is better than the Real D system. I was only referring to the 3D quality and the ghosting issues which I'd seen in the cinema a lot, but not so much on my setup...that's all period. So when I said I get better 3D on my system, I was referring to the ghosting, depth of field etc. I may have slightly exaggerated it, granted, but compared to the horrible anaglyph method, the 3D quality that I get this way, is at least on a par with what I see in the cinema...i.e. it is side by side format, or interlaced, full colour, with no ghosting....that's all I said in my original post....re-read it...

Well I went to see "Final Destination" in 3D last night and even though the 3D looked nice, especially in HD, there were several moments throughout the film where ghosting was evident. Not enough to spoil my enjoyment (of the 3D, not the film) but I get no ghosting with my set up.....Extreme 3D system + Stereoscopic Player (using page flip) + X1 Infocus DLP projector.

Apart from the HD element, I can confidently say that I get better quality 3D in the home than I see in the Cinema. Now, just for more content to watch!!

[GordoSan]

I think you guys are being quite a bit harsh. He stated that he was getting ghosting in the theater, which he does not get at home. How can their not be some merritt to that?

I have seen occasional ghosting in RealD myself. I have to wonder why this happens sometimes, but not others. I saw some while watching the U23D movie in Tampa, and in RealD. I also noticed a shimmery effect on the cymbals that I did not care for. I guess that this was due to the silver screen having "hot spots", but it almost seemed as though it enhanced the ghosting effect.

Personally, I feel like passive will eventually dominate the home market, but it can have its drawbacks too.

[PalmerTech]

"Eventually" being the key word. I think shutters have the best shot of making 3D mass market at this point.

[Likay]

"Eventually" being the key word. I think shutters have the best shot of making 3D mass market at this point.

Ditto. It's all about cost and so far shuttersolutions are more costeffective than dual passive rigs. Other passive solutions are plagued with phenomenas as ghosting, tinting, hotspots etc.

However: The best experience today is a dual projector rig at home. If you take light intensity into the economycalculation it's actually par on a shutterrig because the projector needs to have a very high light output to match a dual rig. The extra cost of those beamers makes room for an extra projector+the cost between a silverscreen and a standard one. Then you need glasses etc...
A common mistake in passive rigs is using circular polarization (gives room for headrotation) which provingly gives a worse experience than linear, both ghostingwise as well as minor colortints.

I bet ghosting isn't visible in a dlp/shutter-rig because it's so darned dark.

No matter what: It's really satisfying reading about people who are experience the joy of 3d-gaming.