3D Visions and Edimensional! (and DLP Projectors!!)

Post by **Damo3000** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:22 pm

Well I just got my glasses today, hooked em up (which turned out to be kind of a hassle) but i finally got the going (on my Benq DLP projector by the way - thus confirming they work at 85hz on DLP projectors (well my model at least). WOOT. So I thought I would try the Edims too. They didnt work, UNTIL I plugged the nvidia VESA plug from the back of the Nvidia Emitter into the Edimensional High Powered Emitter dongle (not the Edimensional VGA Dongle), and the glasses worked! They are wireless by the way. THere is some bugs to work out, so far I havent had time to test out too much, 2 of my edims dont work and 2 do (so thats odd). Iff I cover the Nvidia emittter, all four Edims work (but Nvidia glasses dont). If I dont cover anything (I have two emmitters - Edim and Nvidia) then only 2 glasses work - and the Nvidia ones too.

Kinda odd. But Im still stoked! ANyhow, now Im looking at where the settings for "Use 3d stereo refresh always" button is!

Hope all you Edimmers can get your glasses working too~

Post by **yuriythebest** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:37 pm

Congratulations!!

Post by **Damo3000** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:41 pm

A quick note

The Nvidia glasses ghost alot, while the Edims look great. I wonder why this is happening. I read in these forums of people seeing ghosting in one eye, and thats kinda what is going on with the Nvidia glasses. Bugga!

Post by **The_Doctor** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:00 pm

The nvidia glasses ghost with the dlp projector?

Post by **Damo3000** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:15 pm

Yes with the DLP. So weird, the edims work great but the Nvidia glasses ghost really bad. Must be a timing thing. But they dont ghost as bad in the Nvidia test thing. Well, it would be nice to use the Nvidia glasses as my primary glasses, but it doesnt seem to be turning out that way.

Anyone had similar issues?

Post by **The_Doctor** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:42 pm

May be related to the "don't even work at 60HZ" while the other types do. Eh, I'm sure all projector people have an arsenal of glasses that will work ok.

Post by **Frettchen** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:02 am

Hey Damo,
Great to hear that your proj. works

But I thought the standard ED-VGA dongle/emitter (for wireless ED's) would work also - at least if you cover the nvidia emitter??! Could you please try that?!
What about reversing the picture - how did you do it?

Post by **Damo3000** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:32 am

Well the Nvidia glasses simply dont work with the Projector as well as the Edims do.

The Nvidia glasses ghost and the Edims do not. Im not sure why this is, but my guess is that its a timing issue and the Nvidia glasses see like they are .25% off or something while the Edims sync up perfectly. Too bad! Hopefully there is a fix for this. Are people experiencing the same on DLP TV and LCD120hz?

I have the High Powered Emitter from Edimensional and they give you a kind of breakout box from the VGA dongle that has 2 vesa outputs for two emitters, with a button on it that reverses the pageflip.

I just noticed now that the Nvidia glasses dont nearly ghost as much when the Edims are not plugged in at all (no dongle) - BUT the 3D effect is reversed (wrong!)

When I plug in the Edims, the Nvidia Glasses ghost, but the 3D effect is now correct. Sigh

So I need to find someway to reverse the pageflip for the Nvidia Glasses, and continue testing from there with the adding on of Edims, or I shelve the Nvidia glasses, cover its emitter and basically settle to the fact that I just paid 280$ to unlock a driver which now works exactly as it has done for years now.

I just plugged the Edim emitter directly to the dongle and ...you guessed it, teh 3D effect is reversed...So looks like reversing the pageflip is the order of the day
The testing continues.

Post by **yuriythebest** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:43 am

hmm isn't there a keyboard shortcut to swap left/right?

Post by **Damo3000** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:45 am

if there is Id love to know it

Post by **Frettchen** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:53 am

as far as I can remeber you can use the ed-activator and with that it should be possible to swap using a keyboard shortcut - I think that was the way I did it first! At last I got a hardware solution with a switch which always worked perfectly!
@Damo: do the edims work with the standard ED-dongle? I have no high-power emitter!

Post by **Damo3000** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:11 am

I just plugged the Edim emitter directly to the dongle and ...you guessed it, teh 3D effect is reversed...So looks like reversing the pageflip is the order of the day

I plugged the regular Edim emitter into the dongle, and the effect was reversed

Ill test the ED activator tommorow

Post by **winch8** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:24 am

http://www.edimensionalfiles.com/solo11 ... ds/E-D.exe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; here is the link where the ed qctivator is downloaded, on that there is clearly an option : reverse 3d stereo.

Post by **Damo3000** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:13 pm

well its the Nvidia glasses that need to be reversed and if the Edims are plugged in they reverse but they ghost. if the Edims arent plugged in the NV glasses dont ghost but are reversed and the option for reverse stereo in the ED Activator disappears. I wore the Nvidia glasses upside down for some testing, and they still shost slightly more than the EDs but its passable.

It must be a timing issue with the DLP projector and the Nvidia glasses. Im still trying to get it working all together properly.

By the way, the emitters interfere with eachother so its one or the other it seems.

Post by **Frettchen** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:11 pm

Ok. But it should work with the ED-activator (if the edims are plugged out)! Even if the reverse option disappears! Just use CTRL+F10 and CTRL+F11 to switch!

Post by **Damo3000** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:39 pm

ok Ill try that

Post by **smoothy** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:20 pm

The_Doctor wrote:May be related to the "don't even work at 60HZ" while the other types do. Eh, I'm sure all projector people have an arsenal of glasses that will work ok.

Does this mean I can get shutter glasses for 60hz max refresh rate LCD projectors?

Post by **Damo3000** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:38 pm

Well I tested at 60hz and the Nvidia glasses didnt work. Id wait for more testing before Id buy anything!

Post by **smoothy** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:01 pm

Damo3000 wrote:Well I tested at 60hz and the Nvidia glasses didnt work. Id wait for more testing before Id buy anything!

Many thanks for your reply, do you know of any other 3d shutter glasses that work in 60hz mode LCD projectors?

Post by **The_Doctor** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:50 pm

smoothy wrote:
The_Doctor wrote:May be related to the "don't even work at 60HZ" while the other types do. Eh, I'm sure all projector people have an arsenal of glasses that will work ok.
Does this mean I can get shutter glasses for 60hz max refresh rate LCD projectors?

I don't know about lcd projectors, I couldn't get the nvidia glasses to work at 60Hz on a crt monitor while edim type of glasses worked fine.

Post by **Frettchen** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:38 am

Damo3000 wrote:ok Ill try that

If the activator works and reverses the nvidia glasses it should be also possible to get the nvidia and ED pictures in sync using your external switch to adjust the ED-signal!

Post by **chrisjarram** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:10 am

smoothy wrote:
Damo3000 wrote:Well I tested at 60hz and the Nvidia glasses didnt work. Id wait for more testing before Id buy anything!
Many thanks for your reply, do you know of any other 3d shutter glasses that work in 60hz mode LCD projectors?

Oh come on.. shutters have NEVER worked for lcd projectors - where have you been?

You need 85hz+ DLP units, and even then some work and some don't.

EVERYTHING you need to know about which units you can and can't use is here, this thread is considered the 'Bible' of this subject:-
http://www.stereo3d.com/cgi-bin/discus/ ... ?3177/3347" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **chrisjarram** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:12 am

Damo3000 wrote:Well I tested at 60hz and the Nvidia glasses didnt work. Id wait for more testing before Id buy anything!

I have hardware to delay and / or reverse the page flipping signal for eDims and CrystalEyes - I can't wait to try this driver out when the glasses finally turn up!

Don't even attempt to use the glasses together, the IR emitters are not compatible but that should be obvious

Post by **chrisjarram** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:15 am

SOoooooo glad I didn't waste my money on the iz3d 'shutter' (cough) solution now! They had pleeenty of time to sort this out, and could easily have employed an embedded expert to do this but have missed a trick now.

Ho hum, not ruling out their monitor technology but shutters are the only way forward for me.

Post by **Hornet** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:06 pm

I think, the ghosting problem is no timing problem only other factor:

When the LCD panels of Ed glasses are small, the view axis is cca 90 gr to the plane of LCD panel of glasses, when the panel is bigger the axis angle when I watch to L or R sides is no 90 gr.
In this situation worked polarizers no good - black is no black, only incomplete light block is here. Have the same problem with Samsung shutters on DLP PJ, I think the material od LCD panels is other than ed, the main problem is this "axis ghosting problem".
Have tested "sandwich" glasses (2 panels for one eye) no more better

This is principial problem for wide angle shutters (when the picture contrast is high).

Post by **Damo3000** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:15 pm

I disagree and still think its a DLP timing issue as unplugging the Edims and just using the Nvidia glasses (upside down) produces much less ghosting than when the Edims are plugged in and the Nvidia glasses can be worn normally, then they ghost quite a bit. Tonight Im going to try the ED activator again, and see if I can switch L/R on the Nvidia glasses only, and see what kind of ghosting Ill get. I will admit though that the Edims seem to ghost less overall. Which is sad really, I thought the Nvid glasses would have tried to make the ghosting less. But again, I am using them on an unsupported "Generic CRT"!

Post by **Okta** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:53 pm

Can you adjust the timing of the signal in the nvidia driver panel like some have done for their dlp tv's?

Post by **Damo3000** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:56 pm

I will be trying that tonight! Thanks for the tip. Could yeild some results I hope

Post by **smoothy** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:21 pm

chrisjarram wrote:
smoothy wrote:
Damo3000 wrote:Well I tested at 60hz and the Nvidia glasses didnt work. Id wait for more testing before Id buy anything!
Many thanks for your reply, do you know of any other 3d shutter glasses that work in 60hz mode LCD projectors?
Oh come on.. shutters have NEVER worked for lcd projectors - where have you been?
You need 85hz+ DLP units, and even then some work and some don't.

EVERYTHING you need to know about which units you can and can't use is here, this thread is considered the 'Bible' of this subject:-
http://www.stereo3d.com/cgi-bin/discus/ ... ?3177/3347" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am very aware of that site you posted

But anyone can tell you that you can use shutter glasses on LCD projectors, DLP is better for active stereo. But for LCD you need 85hz+ but some say it's possible to do 60hz active stereo on LCD projectors which is why I asked the question of which shutter glasses is the best to go for.

Post by **chrisjarram** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:08 pm

smoothy wrote: I am very aware of that site you posted

But anyone can tell you that you can use shutter glasses on LCD projectors, DLP is better for active stereo. But for LCD you need 85hz+ but some say it's possible to do 60hz active stereo on LCD projectors which is why I asked the question of which shutter glasses is the best to go for.

There are very, very few LCD projectors which can 'support' active stereo, though there are a number of anomolies which come with it. To say 'anyone can tell you you can use shutters with lcds' did make me chuckle I have to say!

It is considered pointless to use anything other than DLP for this purpose so why would you? Additionally why would you want to use shutters at 60hz?? I've never heard of anybody at all using LCD's for anything other than passive polarised solutions. It surprises me you know about the thread I posted given the fundamentals of the question you asked, that's all. There are hundreds of DLPs floating around on the market for very little money that will give you fantastic results for very little money.
Also, your question 'anyone know any shutters which work with LCD projectors' itself indicates a fundamental misunderstanding, as all of the cheaper shutter glasses will work with them (for obvious reasons) albeit with a little tweaking. The mere fact you havent posted a make and model of projector makes that question extremely difficult to answer, as the only problems that can really arise is the timing, which is entirely dependant on the circuitry in the unit. Maybe some more info would help.

Post by **smoothy** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:54 pm

chrisjarram wrote:
smoothy wrote: I am very aware of that site you posted

But anyone can tell you that you can use shutter glasses on LCD projectors, DLP is better for active stereo. But for LCD you need 85hz+ but some say it's possible to do 60hz active stereo on LCD projectors which is why I asked the question of which shutter glasses is the best to go for.
There are very, very few LCD projectors which can 'support' active stereo, though there are a number of anomolies which come with it. To say 'anyone can tell you you can use shutters with lcds' did make me chuckle I have to say! It is considered pointless to use anything other than DLP for this purpose so why would you? Additionally why would you want to use shutters at 60hz?? I've never heard of anybody at all using LCD's for anything other than passive polarised solutions. It surprises me you know about the thread I posted given the fundamentals of the question you asked, that's all. There are hundreds of DLPs floating around on the market for very little money that will give you fantastic results for very little money.
Also, your question 'anyone know any shutters which work with LCD projectors' itself indicates a fundamental misunderstanding, as all of the cheaper shutter glasses will work with them (for obvious reasons) albeit with a little tweaking. The mere fact you havent posted a make and model of projector makes that question extremely difficult to answer, as the only problems that can really arise is the timing, which is entirely dependant on the circuitry in the unit. Maybe some more info would help.

Many thanks for your reply

I apologize but I had confused my self with my own question. I forgot that LCD projectors are not really for active stereo but work better in passive stereo. But anyhow would active work in 60hz on my projector which is the sanyo plv-z2 LCD projector. It has a native resolution of 1280x720p and a max resolution of 1280x1024. I have noticed in the manual it says it can do 60hz, 70hz and 85hz. It's able to take a PC input resolution of 1024x768. For some reason whenever I use it. It always shows it locked in 60hz. So I don't quite know how to raise it higher than that. But I haven't even tried it yet with active stereo as I don't have the shutter glasses. If you can help me on that, then that would be really great.

Many thanks in advance

Post by **ngsmith** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:42 pm

Hey Smoothy,

I have a Optoma EP1691 which does 1280x768. In the manual it said it can do up to 85hz. I was even able to set this when linked to the monitor. However, when using my EDim dongle and glasses they did not behave properly at 85hz--you could see the flicker as if it was at 60hz. I know with the EDim setup or using the cheap AnotherEye glasses you get S3D at 60hz and using Nvidia's old drivers it works. I would not recommend it though because the flicker is so slow you get a headache just after a couple minutes.

I have an older Optoma eP739 which works great at 85hz no flicker with either setup and the old Nvidia drivers. I think I will purchase 3D Vision when I can get just the dongle or they work out the problems with the glasses. I am hoping Iz3d will work out their problems with shutter support soon since I have already invested in a couple wired Edim and AnotherEye glasses.

I recommend using Amber/Blue passive glasses on you projector-these work great on my Optoma EP1691 since they cannot support shutter. They are giving the glasses away free for the superbowl. I got 12 at Target the other day.

Post by **smoothy** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:37 am

ngsmith wrote:Hey Smoothy,

I have a Optoma EP1691 which does 1280x768. In the manual it said it can do up to 85hz. I was even able to set this when linked to the monitor. However, when using my EDim dongle and glasses they did not behave properly at 85hz--you could see the flicker as if it was at 60hz. I know with the EDim setup or using the cheap AnotherEye glasses you get S3D at 60hz and using Nvidia's old drivers it works. I would not recommend it though because the flicker is so slow you get a headache just after a couple minutes.

I have an older Optoma eP739 which works great at 85hz no flicker with either setup and the old Nvidia drivers. I think I will purchase 3D Vision when I can get just the dongle or they work out the problems with the glasses. I am hoping Iz3d will work out their problems with shutter support soon since I have already invested in a couple wired Edim and AnotherEye glasses.

I recommend using Amber/Blue passive glasses on you projector-these work great on my Optoma EP1691 since they cannot support shutter. They are giving the glasses away free for the superbowl. I got 12 at Target the other day.

Many thanks for your reply ngsmith

Unfortunately I am based in the UK so I won't be able to get those Superbowl glasses. As well I would prefer to do active stereo. It's been something I have wanted to do for a real long time now. I was searching the net and found this thread talking about getting 85hz mode running on my projector sanyo plv-z2. http://forums.entechtaiwan.com/index.php?topic=456.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I really don't understand all those numbers that are being spoken about. I was wondering if you or anyone else reading this could tell me from reading that forum thread if my projector can be run into 85hz mode for active stereo because if so I will order the nvidia 3d vision glasses straight away. Something interested as well is the plv-z2 listed here against the casio shows the sanyo as having a vertical scan rate up to 80hz and horizontal scan rate up to 100hz. http://www.pureprojectors.com/compares/ ... nyo_plv-z2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many thanks in advance

Post by **Hornet** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:31 am

Hi, the main problem with some projectors is : these accept 85,or 100 Hz, only the freq,is than lovered to 60 or 75 Hz. Only some DLPs (older) are really 85 Hz active 3D stereo compatible.

The same situation is by LCD PJs - max real refresh is 60 hz, (principial)

Older Benq models PB 6240 or MP720,721 are excelent for active stereo

Post by **DickDastardly** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:03 pm

Damo,
WRT the issue of the nVidia glasses being reversed with the projector when only they are connected, I noticed in a review that there's a step in the setup process where you tell the driver what you're seeing with each eye:

What happens if you run the setup again and give the opposite answer to that you gave the first time? Maybe that would tell the drivers there's a 1 frame delay and they'd automatically compensate for it? (I don't have the nVidia glasses myself yet but I'd be very interested to hear if this has the desired result as I too have an 85Hz projector and, if I'm forking out $200 I'd like to at least be able to use the new glasses rather than just my old e-dims).
Cheers,
DD

Post by **Damo3000** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:32 pm

That doesnt work, it fails if you pick the wrong ones. It only works one way. I can even reverse my glasses and they still ghost like crazy so I just use my old Edims....sigh

Post by **cms** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:18 am

The user "iondrive" seems to have found a way to do this in software with nvidia's driver here: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=80226

He also speaks a little more about it here: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=89149

I'm not sure if it will work with the latest driver. Could you try it out and let us know?

Thanks,
-Ian

Post by **Damo3000** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:24 pm

This sounds intriguing. Alt-= or Alt-- to delay the glasses! Could this be true!! This could be the ghosting fix I need!

Ill try tonight, and report back.

Post by **Xerion** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:07 pm

Ah I was wondering about those registry settings myself, just haven't got a stereo setup atm

Only have the drivers installed to see if they work in windows 7.

Post by **Damo3000** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:51 pm

Sorry guys, I had MAJOR issues with my PC last night. The stereotest kept freezing up and artifacting, and it was a huge pain to get everything working again. I briefly tried the Alt-= trick but nothing happened. I must have to change the registry settings, but im not quite sure how. I almost dont want to mess around out of fear of mucking everything up again! By the way, Devil May Cry 4 kicks ass in stereo3D. It runs so well, and looks so good!