Favourite 3d display technology

[russellk]

I just thought I'd ask, what is everyone's favourite and why? I'm specifically talking about ways to enjoy 3d games on pc, so no IMAX 3d cinema experiences

The reason is, I have a 3d projector, 3d OLED tv and surround 3d monitors, but depending on how I feel I tend to go through various phases of gaming. Also there is VR/helix vision to throw into the mix.
Just wondering what others thought processes are and if anyone is in a similar position? There are so many variables, input lag, resolutions, contrast, ghosting etc. etc.

I have a few games that I started playing, then stopped because I wasn't sure whether to carry on in 2d, wait for a 3d fix, wait for a surround 3d fix, etc. etc.

[Cowboybob]

I use a single 27" monitor for sim racing, I also bought a spare monitor and glasses. Wish they made a super wide screen monitor in 3d. Toying with the idea of running dual monitors in 3d and running a F1 car with halo. Not sure I need to buy another monitor for triples due to a dying technology. VR graphically not there yet for me.

[Robert256]

I have 3D Vision and an Oculus Rift. I prefer 3D Vision by far, because of the higher resolution and comfort. The Rift weighs about 500g, pushing on your face. Gives a stuffy feeling after wearing more than 5 minutes. Also, minimal lag already can induce nausea. Of course it is more immersive, so fun for a while, but becomes uncomfortable quickly. 3D Vision doesn't have those problems, and my Full HD monitor is crisp as can be. Also nice to see your surroundings, is much easier on the eyes when using for a longer while.

[JtG74]

I bought my first and only 3D vision monitor early 2014(ASUS VG278HR). It's still working perfectly well but my eyesight has deteriorated so I got me an used Samsung UE55HU8505 3D TV. Unfortunately it does not do very well basic 3D Vision(3D TV Play) because 720p scales poorly on it. Luckily quite many modders use 3Dmigoto which enables SBS/TB Mode via HDMI Checkerboard in the NVCP. And it looks good on 4K or even 1080p. I'm so happy for this and I really appreciate all the hard work they do. Hopefully this continues because I don't think I can go back to 2D after all these years.

[russellk]

For what it's worth, I was underwhelmed at first with my first screen (non lightboost), but it's because the tech had been oversold. Once I got used to it, there was no looking back, it's truly a transformational technology.
Then, the lighboost screens improved it, despite the whole 'inverse checkerboard'/overscan/not full 1920x1080 res thing. Not sure how many people here will remember that

In the meantime, 720p projector was very good and took the lead from my monitor, as the large screen is so immersive, but it's hard to ingore the resolution limitations.

I then upgraded to 3d surround and it's amazing, although the requirements are high and it's very inefficient, as it's rendering everthing 100% even in your peripheral vision. Also, widescreen is a real pain.

Lastly, 4k oled passive 3d, which blew me away but needs a lot of power.

[Necropants]

It was 3 screen surround 3dvision but with the death of SLI and it just crashing games on startup now, I guess it's a thing of the past.
If anyone else has got it working on at 2080ti with 14440p rog swift monitors would be nice to know if I have some other issue.

[Dom]

I've been into 3D since around 2007. I've been waiting for Virtual Reality goggles since 1993-94 and finally got a good dose of Vr lately in the last few years. (more than I thought I would ever have experienced in Vr, old games and new ones too).

I would say the 3D stereo dimension is better in Vr with goggles than with my projector or monitor. I've had IR tracking on my monitor in Arma the army simulator and that was cool and worthwhile for immersion.

Once the new Hologram displays come out I will be in line for one, ( I can't pay that much so I hope I can get into that with some 3D games in the next few years)
I have a 3D stereo camera point and shoot, so I like to view my 3D pics on my monitor and that is really cool to see good shots in 3D of real life.

I like watching 3D movies on my projector in the living room with others (it feels like a mini-movie theatre).

Overall I like all displays in different situations like polarized at the movies cinema.

[Dark_saiyens]

I personnaly love playing on my 65" 4K OLED LG 65C6V in 3D Vision ! It is awesome playing games like Tomb raider or The witcher.
But with the high input lagg, i can't play FPS on that screen or too recent games because it it too heavy for GPU/CPU 4K in 3D Vision... Even with 2080ti OC + 9700K OC@4.9Ghz so i use my PG278QR

Never tried to play with 3D projector or surrond gaming.
And i have tried to play in 3D Vision with helixvision on my Valve Index, but it is garbage and i hate it.

[bo3bber]

And i have tried to play in 3D Vision with helixvision on my Valve Index, but it is garbage and i hate it.

Please tell me more. What about that scenario makes it garbage for you?


For me, I spend most of my actual game time on a PG278QR. But that is mostly because of convenience and simplicity.

My previous goto was a 720p stereo projector, but haven't fired it up since I've been using HelixVision.

HelixVision on a VivePro is now my goto for a full immersion, giant screen experience. It's not as good as I want because of the low res, but the IMAX screen and stereo makes it fun for me. (HelixVision on 1st gen VR headsets is not good enough to me. Too low res and grainy.)

Playing Planet Alpha in HelixVision is far better than my PG278QR, even when I have to run it at 720p game resolution to keep up performance.

[whyme466]

@Dark_saiyens - are you using C6 in Gaming Mode, and labelled HDMI input as PC (note that a number of TV setting adjustments are necessary for best 3D)? Nominal lag is around 34 ms, which is good enough for most highly interactive games like Dark Souls, in my opinion. With my hybrid-cooled, overclocked 2080Ti and i9-9900X@4.5GHz, I can run most recent games like Code Vein and Remnant from the Ashes around 40 fps or higher on my EDID override-based E6 (ultra graphics settings).

@bo3bber - are you using Gear lens mod in your Vive Pro? I think the continuous/smooth Gear lens replacement provide a great improvement over the Fresnel lens found in core Vive Pro. Wireless connection, Index Controllers, and armless swivel chair are ESSENTIAL to maintain immersion for some highly active games like Asgard's Wrath.

[Gatorkea]

I am in the same boat, owning a 1440p Dell 3d monitor, 1080p 3d Projector(HD27HDR), and the 4k Oled 3dtv. I switch between them ever so often. The projector is newest to me, and gives me the most problems, but it does work. At first I claimed it to be my favorite among the three displays because of the sheer size and it has very good colors almost like an oled imo. But the black levels are terrible in comparison even to my monitor and it is not very sharp nor as bright as the other displays. Maybe if I spent more time on my room setup , nicer screen and better settings it could be the superior display. However I will say that playing 3d ps3 games on that projector is surprisingly good, like Super StarDust HD. Best middle ground I think is my Dell monitor for performance and image quality.

[russellk]

I am in the same boat, owning a 1440p Dell 3d monitor, 1080p 3d Projector(HD27HDR), and the 4k Oled 3dtv. I switch between them ever so often. The projector is newest to me, and gives me the most problems, but it does work. At first I claimed it to be my favorite among the three displays because of the sheer size and it has very good colors almost like an oled imo. But the black levels are terrible in comparison even to my monitor and it is not very sharp nor as bright as the other displays. Maybe if I spent more time on my room setup , nicer screen and better settings it could be the superior display. However I will say that playing 3d ps3 games on that projector is surprisingly good, like Super StarDust HD. Best middle ground I think is my Dell monitor for performance and image quality.

Thanks for that! It's good timing because I've spent most of the day today looking at monitor and projector upgrades.... again...
I need to do a bit of room treatment for my projector as well. I have a white ceiling and it's only over time that I've really come to appreciate the difference it can make.
It keeps coming back to me not wanting to lose a proper 3d vision monitor, even if I only use it 10% of the time at best.

[bo3bber]

@bo3bber - are you using Gear lens mod in your Vive Pro? I think the continuous/smooth Gear lens replacement provide a great improvement over the Fresnel lens found in core Vive Pro. Wireless connection, Index Controllers, and armless swivel chair are ESSENTIAL to maintain immersion for some highly active games like Asgard's Wrath.

I've not yet modded the lenses, but it's on my agenda for sure. At a minimum, I want to see what it looks like. But I've not been in too big a rush because I mostly do HelixVision work, and that doesn't really need a larger sweet spot because it's more like watching TV, less head movement. And, the god rays on the Rift I found unbearable, but the god rays on Vive Pro aren't really noticeable to me.

I've got the Index controllers which are interesting, but not as good as I'd want. A little flakey on the finger measurements, and they don't fit my hands well. For Beat Saber, I far prefer the original wands.

But- the killer upgrade has to be the wireless. This is easily the biggest game changer for Vive or Vive Pro. Played through Fallout 4 VR this way, and it makes a huge difference. A bit fiddly to get going when I want to use it, but overall I agree it's a must have.

[whyme466]

@bo3bber - if you start having intermittent power connection on your Vive Pro, you should replace the battery cable with a shorter, more robust version of the USB cable. I originally thought I was having a battery problem, but the cable replacement has made my wireless Vive Pro much more stable.

By the way, the retaining strap on the Index Controllers has 4 settings, supporting various hand sizes (pull and slightly rotate metal connection at top of strap). Valve just replaced my Left controller under warranty - I broke forward motion on the joystick. Valve prioritized this warranty replacement over new purchases. I ordered a replacement set the same day I started warranty return - the replacement set is still back-ordered. VERY commendable business practice by Valve!

[helifax]

I think the GearVR Lense mod for the Vive Pro is a must. I actually did the mod on the 1st day I got my Vive Pro (last year) and basically renounced my warranty on day one ^_^. I haven't been more happier! The difference is massive not only for the sweetspot but for the overall clarity!
I don't have the wireless part for the vive pro. After lots of reading I really don''t like that a battery only lasts 2.5 hours and I constantly need to swap and charge batteries (nor the exorbitant sum you need to pay for the kit, strap + extra battery. Plus it's not compatible with a laptop. Really?! 350£ for desktop ONLY?!?!)
My headset when it runs, runs for 12h+ and all that battery swapping every 3-ish hours is a no go (If a battery would last at least 6 hours then...maybe...). So, I added a pulley system for the cable. This solved all the cable issues for me (and I don't have to worry about batteries and cables.) If I use my laptop, the cable doesn't really gets in the way as I am using the base stations close and use a seated position.

So... while I think the Vive wireless is a great step forward, it is nowhere near what it should be ^_^
Also, I see a trend in people "loving" the inferior inside-out tracking with cameras mounted on the HDM instead of proper tracking (and body tracking) with outside lighthouse stations. Meah...
(In the end it;s the same war like before: "Blue-ray vs HD-DVD" ^_^)

[whyme466]

@helifax - good to see you back in this forum, and your Vulcan project sounds as innovative as your superb OpenGL work has been.

The wireless battery swapping is not troublesome - a brief return to real life is not bad after hours of VR immersion, often only taking seconds. The battery swap is MUCH less troublesome (and immersion breaking) than potential cable wrapping/tangling in active games like Asgard’s Wrath. I have 3 HTC quick charge batteries, so I always have power. Some people recommend the cheaper Anker batteries as a suitable power source (Anker also makes physically longer/heavier 4 Hr+ version). How does your pulley system work?

[helifax]

@helifax - good to see you back in this forum, and your Vulcan project sounds as innovative as your superb OpenGL work has been.

The wireless battery swapping is not troublesome - a brief return to real life is not bad after hours of VR immersion, often only taking seconds. The battery swap is MUCH less troublesome (and immersion breaking) than potential cable wrapping/tangling in active games like Asgard’s Wrath. I have 3 HTC quick charge batteries, so I always have power. Some people recommend the cheaper Anker batteries as a suitable power source (Anker also makes physically longer/heavier 4 Hr+ version). How does your pulley system work?

Sorry, I missed this!

It works actually very well! I don't have any issues with the cable (unless I keep on rotating like 20 times in a direction and don't realise it. You will feel a bit like something is pulling you back).

I can't say it's perfect!
If you have a big space area (bigger than 2m by 2m) at the edges of the play area you will start feeling the pulleys pulling you back a bit.
My initial configuration:


I changed my original configuration of having all of them in a straight line and now I am using a triangle configuration for the last pulleys above my head. This gives me a lot more room and less pull-back at the edges of the play area.
(Sadly I don't have a newer photo to show this - my VR is currently on my laptop - in a seated position ^_^)

Cheers,
Helifax

[Losti]

Ok Heli this kind cable management for VR is strange but this will solve my curtent annoing part of VR.... The cable ))))))

[russellk]

Ok Heli this kind cable management for VR is strange but this will solve my curtent annoing part of VR.... The cable ))))))

I've used it too, I bought it for my original oculus when I started playing Skyrim. It's not perfect, but it's surpringly good. It's like every time it stops you tripping over a cable it adds 10% to the immersion factor
There are loads of similar kits avaible online but they all work in the same way.

[bo3bber]

I used the cable management via the roof for quite a bit as well, on my OG Vive. Played all the way through Fallout VR, and it was a great help there.

It's not bad, but still cannot hold a candle to true wireless. I switched to the Vive Wireless kit, and it's hard to explain how much better this is, than even the overhead cable management.

If you have a Vive, Vive Pro, or Vive Cosmos- this is easily worth the money. It's a huge, huge improvement to the quality of the gaming.

@Helifax: The battery management is easy, you just get a giant Anker battery that runs for 6 hours. I guarantee you will want a break after 6 hours.

[kakashisensei]

My favorite is my lg oled ef9500. It was the model preceding the last 3d displays lg oleds (e6 , c6). I wish I waited one more year as the e6 / c6 have better brightness, burn-in durability, and supposedly better input lag. Although with mine, I have never noticed the input lag being bad but I am not really a twitch fps gamer. But I have recently noticed red burn-in and have decided to be more cautious when using that screen. And it is only amazing in a dark room. During the day it gets drowned out by the ambient light. Now I am trying to find an alternative for an everyday 3d display that looks pretty good and doesnt strain my eyes. I dont have 3d vision glasses or a high refresh rate "3d vision" ready monitor. I feel like active 3d is not for me.

I also have the odyssey+ WMR headset and it is decent, but it doesn't produce the same toyification I can get with the 3dtv. But you can get a nice FOV size that trumps any 3dtv. The low resolution look of all VR headsets is the main reason why it cannot outright replace 3dtv or monitors. It has an oled screen so colors/ blacks are better than other lcd VR screens. But lcd has more subpixels so those look sharper. It also has a diffusion filter over the screen to get rid of screen door effect. But it has a trade off in that it produces a visible texture (like uneven matte film) over the picture. Would be interested to try out the HP reverb 2, but hoping samsung releases some odyssey 2 with 4k oled screens.

On another note, I have tried some of those headmounted personal 3d theater displays (goovis g2 and avegant glyph). The FOV on these devices is very small and feels like your sitting in the back of a theater and the screen is half the size on top of that. But the picture quality is sharp and clear unlike VR headsets. The avegant glyph supports frame packed 3d but is only 720p and felt uncomfortable. It uses dlp mini projector technology. I thought there was a graininess in the picture. The glyph can be had for under $200 as it is deprecated. Don't recall if the glyph supported other 3d formats.

The goovis g2 has 1080p 1" sony oleds. Color is good, but I thought the blacks looked grey, which is weird for an oled. Picture is very sharp. But it only supported sbs 3d, which on 1080p looks awful with half the resolution lost. However I just saw they have a new model goovis pro which supports sbs, tb, and frame packed. I am thinking of trying the new model. The price of the goovis models is very high and overpriced imo. Does 3dvision have a mode for 1080p frame packed 60hz?

[whyme466]

Good to see Facebook is still researching novel display techniques, but these potential solutions are still years away. See https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-folde ... y-glasses/, for example.

[bo3bber]

Good to see Facebook is still researching novel display techniques, but these potential solutions are still years away. See https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-folde ... y-glasses/, for example.

The key thing here that caught my attention- they are using a Holographic lens. This is truly amazing.

The idea is that they use an actual hologram as the lens piece. Holograms show 3D when hit with a laser, and if you take a picture/hologram of a lens, it acts like a lens when you light it back up with a laser.

So that means your lens can be as thin as a piece of photographic film, and you can have the best lens in the world- because it's a hologram. Better than retina caliber resolution when using a laser, because it's not a pixel grid.

Amazingly terrific idea. Requires the laser as the light source, so not exactly a slam dunk to make a commercial product, but this is really Wow!

[whyme466]

Facebook is also trying to improve visual quality in hardware performance challenged/limited environments like Quest. See https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/01/face ... ersampling. I agree that a hologram-based lens concept is truly innovative.

[bo3bber]

Facebook is also trying to improve visual quality in hardware performance challenged/limited environments like Quest. See https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/01/face ... ersampling. I agree that a hologram-based lens concept is truly innovative.

Pretty much the same approach as NVidia DLSS, using neural network to upscale images. Wonder if it will ever ship from Oculus.

Big loss for Oculus on the Quest- that was pretty much all John Carmack, and he's moved on to AI.

[russellk]

Looks like this could be my new favourite:

https://blurbusters.com/christie-announ ... projector/

Haha, I wish. That's going to cost as much as a house...

Anyway, on a related note I think anyone interested in display tech/gaming/etc. etc. should also read this:

https://blurbusters.com/frame-rate-ampl ... -graphics/

[whyme466]

Facebook is definitely continuing to spend significant money and to support world-class VR display R&D. The hour-long presentation available at https://uploadvr.com/douglas-lanman-facebook-imaging/ provides a fascinating window into future HMD technologies and challenges.

[b4thman]

I have no experience at all with VR, and I am thinking on buying my 1st VR headset. Currently I experience 3D with my Dell S2716DG) monitor, and in gereneral I am happy with it, I usually can play 2K resolution games with my RTX 2080 (no TI).

I have read comments (not a real review) about "HP Reverb G2", and it seems to be the best choice. It releases on 1st October (I think) and the price is 600€. But before making any decision I always prefer to know the opinion of people in this forum. What scares me the most is that apparently it has two 4k screens, and maybe it is almost impossible to play smooth games using that resolution.

[P.C.Zen]

I'm sticking with 3D Vision for as long as possible, to let VR technology shake itself out before I take the plunge. Also, it's going to be a while before I can afford VR, as I've bought heavily into 3D Vision, old consoles and a relatively large Steam library. All of which I'm going to be playing through before I make the leap to VR.

But yeah, I fell in love with the idea of VR in the 90's and then fell in love with actual VR soon after, when I tried a gliding game at a local arcade that suspended the player in a harness.

After that I played GoldenEye on the N64 and I just couldn't get into it. Everyone else was freaking out about how good it was and I just didn't get it...it made no sense to me because it had to be played in 2D.

Back then I used to think of stuff like that as "desktop virtual reality" and it just didn't make sense to me to play it in 2D. Polygonal 3D platformers on a 2D screen I find especially nonsensical.

I love the immersion you get with 3D vision and I know how powerful VR can be for immersion, but VR's a bit of a way off for me at the moment.

One thing I do really want from VR is a virtual 3D monitor, to play non-VR content in 3D. I'd prefer something with glasses since they're easier to wear than a headset, but hoping there'll be something to move over to, once all the 3D Vision glasses have shuttered their last shutter.

[whyme466]

Only recently discovered how poor the bass response is in my Vive Pro HMD, in some audio comparison testing. I found this dated but still viable solution for improving HMD audio performance - see https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/ ... ass_issue/.

[whyme466]

Interesting view creation approach - see https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel/free-vi ... -vr-gaming.

[friendlinzh]

i prefer 3D Vision .which enables stereoscopic vision for any Direct3D game, with various degrees of compatibility.

[whyme466]

It is not a question of 3DV or VR - I strongly recommend (and use) both. As obsolete 3D displays and vision kits become more and more difficult for potential new 3DV users to find, HelixVision (for VR HMDs) may be the ONLY way they can experience the blogspot’s world-class library of game fixes.

[whyme466]

@helifax - just received my Reverb G2 and did a little testing, after setting it up. In the sweet spot, the resolution difference between Vive Pro and G2 is very noticeable. However, the GearVR lens mod for Vive Pro provides a MUCH larger sweet spot, so much more of each screen's image has the sweet spot resolution. This lens mod really is essential for any Vive Pro user. Vive Pro provides more vibrant colors and blacks, with a more uniform apparent screen resolution. Unlike PiMax 8K, there does not appear to be any geometric distortion on the edges of the G2's FOV. The resolution degrades approaching the G2's FOV edges, with some artifacts like god rays appearing, though.

I have not been able to get my Index Controller to work with G2 yet. The web references I found do not seem to work with the latest SteamVR software, so I have asked for Steam support. I am not sure about the Reverb G2 replacing my Vive Pro as primary VR HMD, however.

[Chtiblue]

Thanks Whyme466
Please continue to report your next days feelings about the G2

[3DNovice]

Well for anyone considering a Rift/Facebook VR Headset during the upcoming Black Friday sales, you may want to reconsider.

It's recently come to light that you will lose all games that you buy on the Rift store, if you either delete or get banned from
your Facebook account.

https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-faceboo ... ing-users/

https://www.polygon.com/2020/10/27/2153 ... es-deleted

The Panasonic glasses look interesting, but are reported to be for commercial use only.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/9/21058 ... n-ces-2020

[floph]

@helifax - just received my Reverb G2 and did a little testing, after setting it up. In the sweet spot, the resolution difference between Vive Pro and G2 is very noticeable. However, the GearVR lens mod for Vive Pro provides a MUCH larger sweet spot, so much more of each screen's image has the sweet spot resolution. This lens mod really is essential for any Vive Pro user. Vive Pro provides more vibrant colors and blacks, with a more uniform apparent screen resolution. Unlike PiMax 8K, there does not appear to be any geometric distortion on the edges of the G2's FOV. The resolution degrades approaching the G2's FOV edges, with some artifacts like god rays appearing, though.

I have not been able to get my Index Controller to work with G2 yet. The web references I found do not seem to work with the latest SteamVR software, so I have asked for Steam support. I am not sure about the Reverb G2 replacing my Vive Pro as primary VR HMD, however.

There seems to be a software update of Windows Mixed Reality for HP Reverb G2 that eliminates chromatic aberration and allegedly improves the clarity slightly. But that software update requires a Windows update. I wonder if that Windows update breaks 3DVision, drivers etc. Have you tried that update so far ?

I should get my HP Reverb G2 hopefully in December.

[russellk]

@helifax - just received my Reverb G2 and did a little testing, after setting it up. In the sweet spot, the resolution difference between Vive Pro and G2 is very noticeable. However, the GearVR lens mod for Vive Pro provides a MUCH larger sweet spot, so much more of each screen's image has the sweet spot resolution. This lens mod really is essential for any Vive Pro user. Vive Pro provides more vibrant colors and blacks, with a more uniform apparent screen resolution. Unlike PiMax 8K, there does not appear to be any geometric distortion on the edges of the G2's FOV. The resolution degrades approaching the G2's FOV edges, with some artifacts like god rays appearing, though.

I have not been able to get my Index Controller to work with G2 yet. The web references I found do not seem to work with the latest SteamVR software, so I have asked for Steam support. I am not sure about the Reverb G2 replacing my Vive Pro as primary VR HMD, however.

There seems to be a software update of Windows Mixed Reality for HP Reverb G2 that eliminates chromatic aberration and allegedly improves the clarity slightly. But that software update requires a Windows update. I wonder if that Windows update breaks 3DVision, drivers etc. Have you tried that update so far ?

I should get my HP Reverb G2 hopefully in December.

The same update also improves the Odyssey+. I didn't have to specifically apply a windows update, it was applied by me manually through the store/windows updates.
if you look at the notes, there are prerequisites but it's not actually bundled as part of a general windows update as such. I had to manually check file versions to verify this. The way it was reported was a little misleading IMHO.

[Losti]

I have the latest Windows Update and everything is fine ref. 3D

[demobuild]

I get better 3d on my Vive Pro but I recently switched to paper anaglyph glasses. VR headset is just too uncomfortable.