Please! No Neil!

Post by **Car1Kenner** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:10 pm

Feel free to post whatever you want, except Neil. I hate Neil.

Post by **metalqueen** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:15 pm

Please go away.

Post by **Car1Kenner** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:26 pm

Yes sir!

Post by **martinlandau** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:46 pm

Why do you hate neil, he has done a wonderful thing providing the resources here. I have not found a better S3d community anywhere on the web. He is a gracious host and has never banned anyone and has personally responded to many questions and concerns. The world would be a better place if there were more neils out there wouldn't it? He even left Canada to escape celine dion - what is there not to like about such a swell guy? Why do you hold this negative feelings towards him?

Post by **Neil** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:18 pm

There is no short answer to this.

I think Carl is mostly upset that I am not providing a space for him to express and discuss political views (e.g. politics, foreign policy, etc.). While it can start innocent enough, it degrades fast, and I don't want to needlessly alienate members or offend people when there are plenty of other active forums that would be better suited for this kind of discussion. I guess it's one of those fascist Canadian things, eh?

I still live in Canada, but I visit the US on a regular basis. It's the province of Quebec I left!

Regards,
Neil

Post by **sharky** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:38 am

this is all getting redicolous.....

why delete posts and not simply lock them?! i know why and i dont like it.. and i dont like what is going on here. but its your site.. so if you dont want me to post politics here i do it somewhere else as you said.. but as you said there are a lot of sites about politics out there, and according to your idea of political topics there should be a war on every forum.. the only war i see is about the deleted topics.. the others were just ideas shared on the board.. but my post ends here..

cu

sharky

Post by **genetic** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:43 am

very cute Neil,

I wish I saved what I wrote in my last post before you deleted it. This is getting ridiculous.

You are creating your own hostile environment. You may take comfort in the support you have gotten on this thread but that is only because they dont know what you have been up to. How could they with how fast you delete this stuff?

My other post had no political opinions (in fact I have never stated my political opinions on this forum) but was rather calling attention to what I believe to be a very disruptive abuse of power on your part.

So basically you need to re-re-edit the off topic description to also include the bit about no topics that Neil dosent like.

basically, you mad your own bed on this one.

Post by **metalqueen** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:01 am

This is getting ridiculous.

Neil owns this site. He can do what he feels is necessary, and he has every right to delete content that he deems negative.

For the record, I do know what has been going on, and I'm not just blindly supporting Neil. There had been some content posted earlier that could have been deemed racist. Neil had to delete it. Opinions are valid, hurtful racist content is not.

Neil did not create a hostile environment. He has done so much for the stereo community. He works like crazy to make this site the success that it is. I wonder where everyone would go if this site wasn't here. Instead of blaming Neil, you should be thanking him for creating and maintaining this place. This is the best place on the web for stereo3D! Whether you like Neil or not, whether you agree with him or not, he puts in the long hours and hard work, and he makes the rules here. You guys all act like you are so entitled to everything. What you are doing that is positive for the community by keeping this nonsense going? All of this immature bickering is taking everyone away from the real purpose of this place. MTBS is supposed to be a fun place.

Get off Neil's case already and let it go. Grow up and stop acting like babies.

Post by **yuriythebest** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:22 am

originally I planned to ignore this thread simply not to give Car1Kenner any attention which he seems to feed on but yeah I support Neil on this as well (after some initial convincing), MTBS is the face of stereo3d and should be kept nice, friendly and clean. Also apart from the nvidia forum and really.ru (russian) I don't think any other active community exists atm so this place is to be valued greatly.

Post by **sharky** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:31 am

Cuddles wrote:This is getting ridiculous.

Neil owns this site. He can do what he feels is necessary, and he has every right to delete content that he deems negative.

For the record, I do know what has been going on, and I'm not just blindly supporting Neil. There had been some content posted earlier that could have been deemed racist. Neil had to delete it. Opinions are valid, hurtful racist content is not.

Neil did not create a hostile environment. He has done so much for the stereo community. He works like crazy to make this site the success that it is. I wonder where everyone would go if this site wasn't here. Instead of blaming Neil, you should be thanking him for creating and maintaining this place. This is the best place on the web for stereo3D! Whether you like Neil or not, whether you agree with him or not, he puts in the long hours and hard work, and he makes the rules here. You guys all act like you are so entitled to everything. What you are doing that is positive for the community by keeping this nonsense going? All of this immature bickering is taking everyone away from the real purpose of this place. MTBS is supposed to be a fun place.

Get off Neil's case already and let it go. Grow up and stop acting like babies.

are you saying something like "if you dont like mtbs open your own stereosite with your own rules"? not complaining.. just trying to understand.

Post by **Okta** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:52 am

Cuddles wrote:This is getting ridiculous.

Neil owns this site. He can do what he feels is necessary, and he has every right to delete content that he deems negative.

For the record, I do know what has been going on, and I'm not just blindly supporting Neil. There had been some content posted earlier that could have been deemed racist. Neil had to delete it. Opinions are valid, hurtful racist content is not.

Neil did not create a hostile environment. He has done so much for the stereo community. He works like crazy to make this site the success that it is. I wonder where everyone would go if this site wasn't here. Instead of blaming Neil, you should be thanking him for creating and maintaining this place. This is the best place on the web for stereo3D! Whether you like Neil or not, whether you agree with him or not, he puts in the long hours and hard work, and he makes the rules here. You guys all act like you are so entitled to everything. What you are doing that is positive for the community by keeping this nonsense going? All of this immature bickering is taking everyone away from the real purpose of this place. MTBS is supposed to be a fun place.

Get off Neil's case already and let it go. Grow up and stop acting like babies.

Wow how many alias's does Neil have?

Post by **LukePC1** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:17 am

Are we allowed to write about politics in the Shout box?
No one reads it and it is full with politics usually. One example:

CarlCenner: "Bot xy has no army"

--> the result is, that the poor bot gets attacked with serious forces. He will be completly distroyed. If that is not ... well discriminating towards the bots

They have their own feelings

As long as you don't delete the important stuff it's all only half as bad.

Post by **Neil** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:24 am

Guys! Lighten up already!

For over 16,000 posts and nearly 2 years, we've all managed to get along.

I'm moving on, and so should you. Next week is going to be another big week for us.

Regards,
Neil

P.S. Cuddles is NOT me. (No offense, Cuddles, but if I were going to give myself another alias, it wouldn't be Cuddles)

P.P.S. No bots' feelings were hurt during the creation of this post.

Post by **martinlandau** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:03 pm

Neil wrote:if I were going to give myself another alias, it wouldn't be Cuddles)

Oh dear lord no you didn't?!? LOL! What would it be then? Snuggum poo?

Post by **BlackQ** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:26 pm

I've never understand why somebody need to regulate smoking in my restaurant (clear air act)

I've never understand why somebody need to regulate salary level in my company (minimal wage)

I've never understand why somebody need to regulate my practice as doctor or drugs price I'm using in practice

I've never understand why somebody need to regulate how to defense my house with guns

and many other things

Thus I can not understand why do we need to regulate Neil's ownership - MTBS3D.com

As soon as we all 'll hate Neil we'll find another place to be

Post by **lnrrgb** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:07 am

I don't remember anything like this happening at stereovision.net. we all got along, and it was the only forum that just didn't have flare ups like this. though I respect Neil's rights to make decisions here, I would have to vote that he dropped the ball on this (good thing my vote does not count aye?)

Bottom line is that no matter how much time you can spend online, by default it is finite - so what you do, and where you spend your time is valuable. If I am not permitted to bring all of myself here, if I have to leave part of me at the door, it becomes easier to not come in the door at all. I would likely never bring up politics here. I do not bring it up in other forums. But to know that I cannot bring it up.... taints this place for me.

But hey, Neil does not need me here. There will always be people coming to this place from now on to replace a guy like me, due to the blossoming our passion is seeing. I'll tell you this though, I will be found hanging around where core enthusiasts huddle. Will that be here? I doubt it... for reasons like this issue, and others. The core does not worry about what people say, think, do... cuz around them, things just work out naturally.

ahhhhh... the good ol' days, stereovision.net wherefore art thou???

Post by **Okta** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:07 am

Very good post Inrrgb. Censorship on forums is always a tricky issue because people tend to get offended if there posts are deleted and to them it didn't seem justified. Funny thing is its often worse in Off Topic threads. I recently laid down some smack in another site and the whole page was deleted in a pathetic manner (and to hide the slamming of logic I just gave the zealots) and I really have little inclination to contribute to that forum any more.

I love a good debate and when I can't have a reasonable one I go elsewhere but mostly I think Neil does a good job, he has given me a few pokes in the forum but not deleted my posts as of yet

Post by **yuriythebest** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:43 am

I guess it's down to having the least number of people offended. If this means offending the offending individuals then so be it.

Post by **Neil** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:26 am

The "no politics rule", which has been honored since the very beginnings of MTBS, is not unique to us. Just search "no politics" and "forum rules" on Google. Here are some gaming websites that follow the same beliefs for the same reasons I am:

http://www.thepwnedlife.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2
http://www.fire-gamers.com/firewiki/tik ... page=Rules
http://www.warishellgaming.com/forums/a ... b&f=22&a=3
http://www.bgw-gamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56
http://www.michigangamers.com/archive/i ... p?t-5.html
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/rules.php

And...similar to this thread...the list goes on, and on, and on...

lnrrgb, the reason you don't remember anything like this happening at stereovision.net is because very few people posted there. You're not accurately remembering the way things used to be, and the responsibilities are very different when there is enough traffic and a site is being promoted by reputable names like AMD, iZ3D, and several media outlets.

I'm sorry to hear that you will have trouble posting here knowing that some subject matter is restricted. For me, I'm going to try out my new VR920!

Regards,
Neil

Post by **Killigath** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:42 am

I'm really wondering why everyone is making censorship such a big deal anyway. If Neil wants a politics free forum then we should respect that. My whole thing is. A lot of us are from different countries. Some of you hate America, Canada, Japan, France, Russia, ect. Anytime you talk politics you get biases towards whatever party. I don't need to know, or care if anyone hates my country. It's irrelevant to to the topic at hand, S-3D. It can do nothing but hurt and alienate people.

Let me give you an example. Myself and Yuri have been chatting a lot in instant messenger. He's my go-to guy when I have a question about S-3D because of his show and experiences. In one of the deleted posts he wrote a negative comment towards the US. While that is not going to make me stop befriending him, it does make one stop and think about who you are talking to. What happens if I was genuinely offended? This forum looses me possibly. Then anyone else who I would have talked to about S-3D would be lost as well. Why risk loosing people who are turned off by politics? We need all the supporters we can get.

Post by **pixel67** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:52 pm

Killigath wrote:I'm really wondering why everyone is making censorship such a big deal anyway. If Neil wants a politics free forum then we should respect that. My whole thing is. A lot of us are from different countries. Some of you hate America, Canada, Japan, France, Russia, ect. Anytime you talk politics you get biases towards whatever party. I don't need to know, or care if anyone hates my country. It's irrelevant to to the topic at hand, S-3D. It can do nothing but hurt and alienate people.

Let me give you an example. Myself and Yuri have been chatting a lot in instant messenger. He's my go-to guy when I have a question about S-3D because of his show and experiences. In one of the deleted posts he wrote a negative comment towards the US. While that is not going to make me stop befriending him, it does make one stop and think about who you are talking to. What happens if I was genuinely offended? This forum looses me possibly. Then anyone else who I would have talked to about S-3D would be lost as well. Why risk loosing people who are turned off by politics? We need all the supporters we can get.

Great point. I don't see what the big deal is either. This is an "Advocacy" website. Bringing politics into these forums would create flame wars between members themselves, undermining the integrity of the site as a whole. I personally would hate to see anyone's credibility as an S3D Advocate become tarnished just because of their political views on topics that have nothing to do with our purpose here. Nothing good ever comes out of political discussions on forums anyway...

Post by **genetic** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:04 pm

For the record. Stereovision.net was great!

It is where I cut my 3D teeth. I was only there for about 4 months before it died but there was so much useful information there. I would say far more than there is here even now (Regarding pageflipped Nvidia drivers) unless you have an IZ3D or Zailman. In fact, just about everything I needed to know about 3D I learned from people like Atrox, RAGEDemon and this nice guy named Chopper, what ever happened to him?

As for the censorship thing, I cant see post deletion as being any different than book burning, maybe I am strange but that is the way I see it. When deletions happen on other forums the moderator always has to fall back on the old “hey, I don’t make the rules. I just don’t want to get in trouble.” Well, Neil has the privilege (and it is a privilege) to be held accountable for it.

Post by **genetic** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:32 pm

Sorry, I hate to be the justice police here but I just noticed that CarlKenner only has 4 posts. Does anyone else find that a bit odd?

Post by **Tril** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:52 pm

He made a new account.

Old account : CarlKenner
New account : Car1Kenner

genetic wrote:In fact, just about everything I needed to know about 3D I learned from people like Atrox, RAGEDemon and this nice guy named Chopper, what ever happened to him?

If I'm not mistaken, Chopper is Neil.

Post by **genetic** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:53 pm

Yes, thats the point. Why?

Edit: Yes.....of course Neil is Chopper;)

I didnt know I was so hard to understand

Post by **martinlandau** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:30 am

Neil wrote:For me, I'm going to try out my new VR920!

Oh my goodness, no you didn't! I just sell my z800 and go with Iz3d because I know that is what neil/chopper have and I want to be uber cool s3d geek like him, now you go buy vr920, how us poor kids supposed to keep up with rich canadian like you?!?

Post by **yuriythebest** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:02 am

martinlandau wrote:
Neil wrote:For me, I'm going to try out my new VR920!
Oh my goodness, no you didn't! I just sell my z800 and go with Iz3d because I know that is what neil/chopper have and I want to be uber cool s3d geek like him, now you go buy vr920, how us poor kids supposed to keep up with rich canadian like you?!?

don't worry he has an iz3d as well.

Post by **Neil** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:09 am

Not so rich! Sometimes manufacturers send me stuff for testing, etc. It's hard to help members out without owning the equipment firsthand.

Regards,
Neil

Post by **chrisjarram** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:10 pm

lol.. one 'nobody' with only 4 posts to his name slaps up a one sentence post and everyone jumps on it to fill 2 pages? Is this for real?

Post by **yuriythebest** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:25 pm

chrisjarram wrote:lol.. one 'nobody' with only 4 posts to his name slaps up a one sentence post and everyone jumps on it to fill 2 pages? Is this for real?

he is actually carlkenner with 300 posts, banned at the time but now reinstated.

Post by **android78** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:35 am

I just wonder how did Carl get banned?

Post by **pixel67** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:08 am

We will never know, but you can always google his username and check out his personal website. He has a pretty cool site talking about GlovePie but more info is there if you dig.

Post by **yuriythebest** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:21 am

Ban Neil!!!

just kidding

Post by **genetic** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:57 pm

martinlandau wrote:Why do you hate neil, ..........He is a gracious host and has never banned anyone.......

Well, there goes that

Now we know why Carlkenner wrote this post

mystery solved.

I sure hope he comes back. For those of you who don’t know, Carl is very much radical in his political views. I am neutral in his topic of choice and I definitely respect his right to speak out, I don’t agree with the political restrictions he places on his software however so I should point that out to be fair in light of my criticisms of Neil

That being said. Carlkenner is a legend of do it yourself VR. You have heard of him you probably just don’t remember. He is the original Wiimote guy. Before that famous youtube guy there was Carl. Data gloves, haptic devices, if you have interests in these things then you should have heard of him by now. This community needs people like him.

Carl's glovepie is basically the keystone to my whole set up. If he wasn’t so hot headed he would easily have a position of great influence in a community like this. While that is his fault to some extent, Im still always amazed that he is so underappreciated in this and similar forums.

Oh, and Neil. By using that shinny new VR920, you are most likely reaping the benefits of Carl's work. They sent one to him long before they sent one to you.

Post by **metalqueen** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:20 pm

Carl hasn't been banned. You can see him in the shoutbox window playing NAW.

Post by **RAGEdemon** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:42 pm

Interesting thread...

It reminds me of the one and only incident where I hinted my political views at stereovision.net... the Iraq war had just started and I needed to vent... I remember saying something along the lines of... "what use is Stereo3D when half the world is blind?".

Well, no sooner had I uttered these words, than a person replied using strong words that although he appreciated my viewpoint, he came to the site for Stereo3D - to get away from what he saw on every newspaper, every channel, and ever other conversation during his day.

There were no more replies and I didn't mention anything political again.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I can understand both sides of the story... as strongly as we may feel about issues, perhaps a subject that usually polarises people should not be discusses in a place where the main point is to bring people together... where the strength and bonds of a community are paramount above all, especially at such an early and delicate stage in its evolution.

On the othe hand, people should be free to discuss what they like... after all, it is the people who make a community, not the administrator.

Ideally, I guess there really has to be a compromise... perhaps we should be allowed to discuss what we wish but some subjects should generally be considered a taboo and everyone realising this should refrain from discussing that particular issue.

Of course, in reality this won't happenand... we all have strong feelings about what has transpired over the last decade and we will get sucked into whatever is posted either in support or in criticism.

There isn't any good solutions... whatever is put into place to limit damage to the community will invariably tread on freedoms of the people.

Realising that, all I can say is that i'm glad i'm not in Neil's shoes.

Please! No Neil!

Please! No Neil!

held my tongue...but

Re: Please! No Neil!