Meant to be Seen

I was wondering if you all saw the new omnidirectional treadmill at Silicon Valley Virtual Reality expo? It is called the Infinadeck. Thoughts?

Very clever, that looks amazing. Did anyone on here have a go on that at SVVR?

I doubt it will be that cheap but If that isn't ridiculously expensive that is very cool indeed.

[youtube-hd]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoVAOfU ... lpage#t=94[/youtube-hd]

The Infinadeck is currently in development. The video shows the prototype.

It's a very impressive engineering feat. I would like to believe that it can be improved to the point that it could handle a leisurely walk without balance assist. I would be satisfied with that and would pay a couple thousand dollars for that level of performance - provided it could easily be stored in a garage.

I think a design like this is probably the only thing that will give a true sense of walking. Well, because you are basically walking for real.

However, in terms of cost and space restrictions, I think passive ODTs like the Omni seem more practical.

Anyhow, even if this thing was affordable I don't know where I could put it in my apartment.

emsman wrote:I was wondering if you all saw the new omnidirectional treadmill at Silicon Valley Virtual Reality expo? It is called the Infinadeck. Thoughts?

We saw it in this forum two years ago already :
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 322#p84322

Great that they've been able to build a functional prototype. I'm very curious about how they're going to implement tracking, I think that's really the key to make it viable.

All great questions! Size is a common issue raised. The plan is to make it ~ 40x40 (the size of a gait in a jog). it's estimated that the cost will be around $2,000, though it's just a guess currently.

Fredz wrote:

emsman wrote:I was wondering if you all saw the new omnidirectional treadmill at Silicon Valley Virtual Reality expo? It is called the Infinadeck. Thoughts?

We saw it in this forum two years ago already :
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 322#p84322

Great that they've been able to build a functional prototype. I'm very curious about how they're going to implement tracking, I think that's really the key to make it viable.

Agreed. The software engineering required for tracking and motion prediction shouldn't be underestimated here. It's a difficult problem that is just as important as the mechanics for the overall experience.

The design is pretty brilliant. It does leave me wondering though: even if the motion of the treadmill and tracking system was perfected, is it actually possible to exactly recreate the feeling of walking/running, particularly going from a dead stop?

MSat wrote:The design is pretty brilliant. It does leave me wondering though: even if the motion of the treadmill and tracking system was perfected, is it actually possible to exactly recreate the feeling of walking/running, particularly going from a dead stop?

I don't believe it's possible to replicate locomotion while remaining stationary. For one, your body mass does not accelerate so you don't feel inertia. Also, the energy of your legs does not transfer directly to forward motion. It sort of "slips" as the treadmill absorbs your energy. I think it can feel pretty close and good enough for immersion - but not "really real". I think walking through mocap tracked spaces are the only way to really feel like you are moving.

There was a treadmill used in a British TV programme called The Gadget Show that was a full blown immersive simulator of Battlefield 3. That used an expensive roller based treadmill where the movement was tracked by expensive optical motion sensor systems so I guess a version of that or maybe the RF tracking system being discussed on here could be used to control the treadmill.

Video here for anyone who hasn't seen it, but I believe some viewers in teh USA cannot see it due to restrictions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8Bh5iI2WY&feature=kp

brantlew wrote:

MSat wrote:The design is pretty brilliant. It does leave me wondering though: even if the motion of the treadmill and tracking system was perfected, is it actually possible to exactly recreate the feeling of walking/running, particularly going from a dead stop?

I don't believe it's possible to replicate locomotion while remaining stationary. For one, your body mass does not accelerate so you don't feel inertia. Also, the energy of your legs does not transfer directly to forward motion. It sort of "slips" as the treadmill absorbs your energy. I think it can feel pretty close and good enough for immersion - but not "really real". I think walking through mocap tracked spaces are the only way to really feel like you are moving.

That's what I was thinking. Although I do think a backpack-style harness can partially give you the impression of your body overcoming inertia (at least in the way it feels when you wear a backpack).

MSat wrote:

brantlew wrote:

MSat wrote:The design is pretty brilliant. It does leave me wondering though: even if the motion of the treadmill and tracking system was perfected, is it actually possible to exactly recreate the feeling of walking/running, particularly going from a dead stop?

I don't believe it's possible to replicate locomotion while remaining stationary. For one, your body mass does not accelerate so you don't feel inertia. Also, the energy of your legs does not transfer directly to forward motion. It sort of "slips" as the treadmill absorbs your energy. I think it can feel pretty close and good enough for immersion - but not "really real". I think walking through mocap tracked spaces are the only way to really feel like you are moving.

That's what I was thinking. Although I do think a backpack-style harness can partially give you the impression of your body overcoming inertia (at least in the way it feels when you wear a backpack).

There is a way to kind of simulate the inertia and that is with using gravity for acceleration/deceleration in a similar way to the car racing (or flight) simulators, however you need individually tilting shoe soles as well as a tilting platform. It will only give a partial simulation too, not 100%

V8Griff wrote:There was a treadmill used in a British TV programme called The Gadget Show that was a full blown immersive simulator of Battlefield 3.

There is also a smaller sized version of this, keeping an eye on it from time to time :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOGL-SsB0ZM

That is very cool.

Never seen that before, good find.

I try to keep track of as many locomotion devices as possible, you can find lists of them here :
- http://vrwiki.wikispaces.com/Locomotion+devices
- http://vrwiki.wikispaces.com/accessorie ... %20devices

android78 wrote: There is a way to kind of simulate the inertia and that is with using gravity for acceleration/deceleration in a similar way to the car racing (or flight) simulators, however you need individually tilting shoe soles as well as a tilting platform. It will only give a partial simulation too, not 100%

This is an interesting thought. I'm trying to visualize how it would work for walking. I don't know what the tilting shoes could do in this case, although they seem like they could be useful in simulating inclines/declines and stairs.

Fredz wrote:I try to keep track of as many locomotion devices as possible, you can find lists of them here :
- http://vrwiki.wikispaces.com/Locomotion+devices
- http://vrwiki.wikispaces.com/accessorie ... %20devices

Great resource are you one of the contributors ? A link to that page should be your signature.

That is excellent

I've set up the Wiki and I'm the only contributor except for some others I gave the rights to edit their VR Jam entry.

Fredz wrote:I've set up the Wiki and I'm the only contributor except for some others I gave the rights to edit their VR Jam entry.

Take a bow, it's a great resource.

Thanks