Dev Kit 2 Released!

Post by **dkd** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:48 pm

In my case I have in the bill:
$700 for the 2 x DK2
$290 for shipping (Russia)
$0 for duties and fees.
Today in my country any person doesn't have to pay any taxes/fees if the total sum of received goods doesn't exceed an equivalent of 1000 euros per month. But now our government wants to decrease the limit to 125$ per month. So in July(August) there is a good opportunity for me to pay some more - 210$ (700$*30%) in taxes besides 290$ for shipping.

Post by **Zoide** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:51 pm

V8Griff wrote:
Zoide wrote: Now, as I stated earlier, I am somewhat encouraged by the "Fees, Duties & Taxes" field on the Oculus checkout page which says $0.00. Perhaps the $120 shipping cost already includes all taxes/fees. If that were the case, I'd be OK with paying $120 straight from Oculus rather than paying $85 to the forwarder..
Sorry I shouldn't have made the comment about the forwarder as it's just confused the intention of my reply.

I was intending to show that I've ordered two and that it adds up to $224 in total for shipping and fees, which in my case have been shown as two separate items ($70 + $154)

So if you've ordered one then that would equate to half of my costs which would mean $35 dollars shipping and $77 for taxes, so £112 which just a little less than your figure of $120.

No worries. I'd just like to emphasize again that I live very near the US. So it's not fair to compare shipping costs to the UK, which is a continent away, to shipping costs to my country.

Post by **V8Griff** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:03 pm

Zoide wrote:No worries. I'd just like to emphasize again that I live very near the US. So it's not fair to compare shipping costs to the UK, which is a continent away, to shipping costs to my country.

I don't think $35 dollars is unreasonable for shipping anywhere really though even if you are nearer than the UK.

Maybe just ask Oculus support what the break down is, they're very good at responding in my experience.

Post by **Zoide** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:52 pm

V8Griff wrote:
Zoide wrote:No worries. I'd just like to emphasize again that I live very near the US. So it's not fair to compare shipping costs to the UK, which is a continent away, to shipping costs to my country.
I don't think $35 dollars is unreasonable for shipping anywhere really though even if you are nearer than the UK.

Maybe just ask Oculus support what the break down is, they're very good at responding in my experience.

(I hope I don't come off as rude or anything, just genuinely confused)

Where is the $35 coming from?

What I've quoted for shipping is $25 via the forwarder vs $120 via Oculus' shipper.

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:58 pm

The main reason that Oculus does not allow freight forwarding is due to fraud. I won't say the exact numbers, but we regularly cancel out a ton of fraud orders every day. A good number of these fraudulent purchases are using freight forwarding to hide their identity. If we allowed it we would be losing too much money, it's just not worth the risk.

Post by **Zoide** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:14 pm

cybereality wrote:The main reason that Oculus does not allow freight forwarding is due to fraud. I won't say the exact numbers, but we regularly cancel out a ton of fraud orders every day. A good number of these fraudulent purchases are using freight forwarding to hide their identity. If we allowed it we would be losing too much money, it's just not worth the risk.

I see... Could you please clarify whether the $120 "Shipping" is the total fee including all taxes and fees? As I mentioned, the Oculus checkout page says "Fees, Duties & Taxes" is $0.00.

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:52 pm

The price you see for "shipping" includes shipping and handling. It does NOT include tax/duty/VAT/etc. In the US, the tax portion would show state tax (ie if you are in California or a few other states). For EU orders that portion would show VAT. However, this is not necessarily all inclusive. For example, your particular country may charge an import duty, which you would be required to pay when the package arrives. There could even be additional fees the shipping carrier charges (ie UPS), for example brokerage fees used to assist with importation. I know it's not ideal, but we are not making any money on the shipping charges. That is what it costs us.

Post by **Zoide** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:17 pm

cybereality wrote:The price you see for "shipping" includes shipping and handling. It does NOT include tax/duty/VAT/etc. In the US, the tax portion would show state tax (ie if you are in California or a few other states). For EU orders that portion would show VAT. However, this is not necessarily all inclusive. For example, your particular country may charge an import duty, which you would be required to pay when the package arrives. There could even be additional fees the shipping carrier charges (ie UPS), for example brokerage fees used to assist with importation. I know it's not ideal, but we are not making any money on the shipping charges. That is what it costs us.

What company are you guys using? Is there a chance we could choose a different one? Or have the package sent to the same address that we used for DK1, given that you'd have proof that we didn't use it to scam you last year?

I'm really trying to be civil about this, given my indignation. At the same time, I'm sure this is not up to you and you're just doing your job. I hope you'll understand.

Post by **cybereality** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:38 pm

Right, I totally understand where you are coming from. Many people outside the US have complained about the shipping cost. I have asked about it, and I was told we just charge what it costs us to ship there. I can ask again and see what they say, but I doubt anything has changed.

Post by **Zoide** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:48 pm

cybereality wrote:Right, I totally understand where you are coming from. Many people outside the US have complained about the shipping cost. I have asked about it, and I was told we just charge what it costs us to ship there. I can ask again and see what they say, but I doubt anything has changed.

Thanks, I would really appreciate it!

Just to give you an idea, my father recently bought some tiny car parts from Turkey that cost $40 and weighed just 200 grams. The seller used DHL, so he had to pay an extra $20 to have it shipped. That's already 50% of the original cost in shipping fees.

OK, so $20 is not that much, right? It turns out they charged him an additional $95 upon arrival in Costa Rica. Out of those $95, $32 were taxes, and the rest were DHL fees! It was $42 for "paperwork" plus a $14 "charge for tax payment". Mind you, it's not that they charged him $14 in taxes: they charged him $32 in taxes plus $14 for DHL's "effort" of handing that money over to the government.

So there you have it. The cost of getting the parts here and out of customs ($115) ended up being 3 times more than the cost of the parts themselves ($40). Needless to say, he's filed a formal complaint with DHL and is thinking of abandoning the package. It would be more expensive for him to pay the DHL fees than to order the parts again through another seller that will send it to his forwarder in the US

Oh, and salaries here are a fraction (~1/3) of what they are in the US. So multiply all of those numbers by 3 or so and you'll get a notion of why we avoid couriers like the plague.

Post by **gibriftpls** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:31 pm

cybereality wrote:Many people outside the US have complained about the shipping cost. I have asked about it, and I was told we just charge what it costs us to ship there. I can ask again and see what they say, but I doubt anything has changed.

Can you check about the Australian shipping cost, because it is being shipped from a local warehouse but it is costing us 75 USD which is just ridiculous for a local shipment. It would cost me personally 25-30 AUD to ship it.

Post by **slipstream** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:49 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26659680

Does this reporter know something we dont? comment towards the end states a summer release for the Rift. Very cheap too.

Post by **Libertine** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:31 pm

dkd wrote:In my case I have in the bill:
$700 for the 2 x DK2
$290 for shipping (Russia)
$0 for duties and fees.
Today in my country any person doesn't have to pay any taxes/fees if the total sum of received goods doesn't exceed an equivalent of 1000 euros per month. But now our government wants to decrease the limit to 125$ per month. So in July(August) there is a good opportunity for me to pay some more - 210$ (700$*30%) in taxes besides 290$ for shipping.

I just paid $50 (with $350 in insurance) to ship to Switzerland using the US Postal Service for a 12"x6"x9" box. It could have been $12 if i opted out of insurance according to their webpage. $290 is a lot!

Post by **cgp44** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:46 pm

you get charged $50 to $60 for shipping of small pcb (1 sq inchers) so
70 to 100 for the oculus case is not out of normal. Too bad you cannot
do multi case bulk shipping. You have to understand they ship out each
case from their distribution bases, they cannot do any small bulk order collation.
Otherwise wait three years till you can get them in a local shop.

Post by **cgp44** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:02 pm

I am wondering if oculus will only do a very limited DK2 production. Nowhere near 50k DK1,
perhaps even only 5K. It could be because they are making a large loss per case.
So they may have a list of probable developers. Maybe the $50 precharge only is partially to
do with possible order cancellation given too many orders.

Post by **Libertine** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:04 pm

slipstream wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26659680

Does this reporter know something we dont? comment towards the end states a summer release for the Rift. Very cheap too.

Like more than half of the references to the Rift by my estimations, i think he is just talking about the dev kit #2.

Post by **Drewbdoo** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:50 pm

cgp44 wrote:I am wondering if oculus will only do a very limited DK2 production. Nowhere near 50k DK1,
perhaps even only 5K. It could be because they are making a large loss per case.
So they may have a list of probable developers. Maybe the $50 precharge only is partially to
do with possible order cancellation given too many orders.

I doubt it - I paid via paypal and it charged me all of it. At the very least, it won't be that limited - they did 12.5k preorders for dk2 in the first 36 hours

Post by **cgp44** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:08 pm

I suppose with 75 milion in the bank you can make some heavy losses to get the market going.

Where is the order counter I presume you referenced? Not doubting figure.

Post by **Drewbdoo** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:07 pm

http://vrfocus.com/archives/1467/12-5k- ... -confirms/

Post by **V8Griff** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:11 am

Libertine wrote:
slipstream wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26659680

Does this reporter know something we dont? comment towards the end states a summer release for the Rift. Very cheap too.
Like more than half of the references to the Rift by my estimations, i think he is just talking about the dev kit #2.

Yes he's just a general technology journalist and won't have been following this in detail so he's seen the shiny HMD on the Sony booth and thinks they're the guys leading this. The Rift he'll see as the ones in competition to Sony rather than the other way round so he'll have heard the news about teh July DK2 release and think that's their final product release.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing as they say.

Post by **Kirito** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:03 am

why are you guys saying oculus is making a loss with dk2?

Post by **V8Griff** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:39 am

Kirito wrote:why are you guys saying oculus is making a loss with dk2?

I'd suggest they're making uninformed, speculative statements.

As $350 is supposed to be in or around their CV1 price I'd guess there is margin or they're going to struggle to become profitable unless they increase the price of CV1 to $400 - $500. Which would still be a great price IMO.

But again I'm speculating like everyone else.

I'm sure Oculus know the target price and that the business can be profitable at that level otherwise they wouldn't have got the heavy investment they have.

Post by **squibbfire** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:06 am

"12.5 THOUSAND RIFT DK2′S SOLD IN FIRST 36 HOURS, OCULUS CONFIRMS"

Wow...just wow...

Post by **Kirito** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:17 am

V8Griff wrote:
Kirito wrote:why are you guys saying oculus is making a loss with dk2?
I'd suggest they're making uninformed, speculative statements.

As $350 is supposed to be in or around their CV1 price I'd guess there is margin or they're going to struggle to become profitable unless they increase the price of CV1 to $400 - $500. Which would still be a great price IMO.

But again I'm speculating like everyone else.

I'm sure Oculus know the target price and that the business can be profitable at that level otherwise they wouldn't have got the heavy investment they have.

im pretty sure they are making profit,

Post by **Kirito** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:18 am

squibbfire wrote:"12.5 THOUSAND RIFT DK2′S SOLD IN FIRST 36 HOURS, OCULUS CONFIRMS"

Wow...just wow...

i agree

and i hope the sales will reach 100k before cv1

Post by **squibbfire** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:38 am

$500+ price tag would not help the rift. Especially if Sony pushed theirs out at 300 or 400...its gonna be very competitive. If any of you have noticed there is a lot less to the rift then a ps4 and that bad boy sells at 400 and at a very small loss.....If Sony wants to get market...they will get competitive before the Oculus does. And unfortunatley the better product doesn't always win...sometimes just the cheaper one.

Even though I would still buy the better one though I can't say the same for the other 99 percent of gamers out there.

V8Griff wrote:
Kirito wrote:why are you guys saying oculus is making a loss with dk2?
I'd suggest they're making uninformed, speculative statements.

As $350 is supposed to be in or around their CV1 price I'd guess there is margin or they're going to struggle to become profitable unless they increase the price of CV1 to $400 - $500. Which would still be a great price IMO.

But again I'm speculating like everyone else.

I'm sure Oculus know the target price and that the business can be profitable at that level otherwise they wouldn't have got the heavy investment they have.

Post by **V8Griff** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:44 am

squibbfire wrote:$500+ price tag would not help the rift. Especially if Sony pushed theirs out at 300 or 400...its gonna be very competitive. If any of you have noticed there is a lot less to the rift then a ps4 and that bad boy sells at 400 and at a very small loss.....If Sony wants to get market...they will get competitive before the Oculus does. And unfortunatley the better product doesn't always win...sometimes just the cheaper one.

Even though I would still buy the better one though I can't say the same for the other 99 percent of gamers out there.

I agree about the $500 I was just speculating the same way as everyone else.

We've seen right from the start that Oculus are targeting $300 - $400 and I'd expect they cam make money at that point.

Sony tend to sell on quality and make early losses, I'd venture Morpheus (if it ever appears as a product) will be sold at a loss or break-even as you suggest. I don't know that they will see the need to compete on price with Oculus as it's their closed environment and a different market.

All speculation but interesting nontheless.

Post by **bongodriver** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:47 am

Why would I buy the Sony unit if I don't have a PS4?

Post by **V8Griff** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:49 am

bongodriver wrote:Why would I buy the Sony unit if I don't have a PS4?

You wouldn't in it's current form. That's why Oculus and Sony aren't really in competition.

Post by **bongodriver** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:55 am

Are Sony planning a PC version?

Post by **V8Griff** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:09 pm

bongodriver wrote:Are Sony planning a PC version?

They haven't announced anything about that but they say the current Morpheus is PS4 only.

You'd think they would make a PC version but maybe they see merit in keeping it PS4 only.

Post by **cgp44** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:35 pm

The Samsung screen costs over us$200 dollar in replacement market. Assuming 100 per cent markup from source of oculus can get
That still is a large chunk of the pie. Maybe every thing else is cheap. The pcb is small, the hdmi to mipi looks to be on a fpga, they are cheap. Still there is a camera. Remember the price of the thing that the screen was
purposed for:
you chuck out the processor, battery, cell electronics, and add a camera and imu chips.

Of course 75 million covers all this (just the components) and the 70 odd staffers.

At least Oculus has sourced the damn screens, which is fantastic.

Maybe we all should disregard the plea for developers only and tell all to buy now
whilst the development discount (its usually heavily the other way around) has stock to sell.

Post by **squibbfire** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:42 pm

Welll.....I guess now that Facebook is backing/ owns Oculus....i guess Oculus can afford to lose a little on a rift!
This changes everything!!!! Backing...Advertising...R and D

Welcome to the new world of VR gentlemen.

Post by **OzOnE2k10** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:10 pm

I am a weak, weak person. lol

I just had a mild "rant" about the Facebook acquisition, and then put in my order for a DK2.

I can't really complain about the price, as we're still getting a lot of tech for the money.

The shipping rate of $35 (to the UK) wasn't too bad either, and the $50 deposit made it a bit easier to click the Place Order button.

I don't really care for any of the Sony stuff, as Oculus is where VR is at right now.

I'm starting to see the light regarding the Facebook thing too - my only concern is that they turn Oculus into some sort of Corporate puppet, and try to move them away from their gaming / VR experience roots.

@cybereality - please can you give us any assurances about the Facebook deal?
I'm guessing you can't really say much at this point, but even to hear "don't worry, it's all in hand" would be great.

Also, will you be releasing any estimates on shipping times for DK2 orders based on the order numbers / order date?
(similar to the spreadsheets set up by other forum members)

Hopefully I'm not too late to the party with my DK2 order?

OzOnE.

Post by **GeraldT** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:16 pm

OzOnE2k10 wrote: I just had a mild "rant" about the Facebook acquisition, and then put in my order for a DK2.

... a lot of people will feel rather stupid in the coming days I guess. some who actually canceled will likely feel tremendously so when the first DK2 unpacking videos hit YouTube

In the end people will notice that nothing has actually changed except that the Rift is much better known, there will likely be a lot more titles announced and that the CK1 will be a lot cheaper

Post by **Mystify** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:18 am

GeraldT wrote:In the end people will notice that nothing has actually changed except that the Rift is much better known, there will likely be a lot more titles announced and that the CK1 will be a lot cheaper

I don't think the dangers are immediate. it is the long-term repercussions that could go horribly awry.

Post by **cybereality** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:46 am

To be honest, I don't think the Facebook deal is changing anything about DK2. The hardware is finalized, and our release date is not changing. It will certainly help with making the consumer release a better product, and surely give us some leverage with buying components in bulk and for better prices. So ultimately I think it will allow us to make the consumer version better and maybe even cheaper.

But in the short-term, I don't think much is changing around Oculus. In the long-term, I'm sure there will be room for growth into other areas outside gaming and it's really exciting to think about the mainstream use of VR. For sure, it's an exciting time to be part of this movement.

Post by **V8Griff** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:03 am

GeraldT wrote: ... a lot of people will feel rather stupid in the coming days I guess. some who actually canceled will likely feel tremendously so when the first DK2 unpacking videos hit YouTube
In the end people will notice that nothing has actually changed except that the Rift is much better known, there will likely be a lot more titles announced and that the CK1 will be a lot cheaper

Yep Totally agree.

As you say there will be a few people feeling a bit silly soon, can you go back to your posts on Reddit and delete them or are they there for eternity?

Post by **cgp44** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:43 am

Here's to Oculus making a deal with the oled innovators with big money to make
screens that have pixels densities so great that they are not required by smart phone
users, rather required under magnification. Say a 4K 6 incher? I just wish someone
would buy Nvidia and start moving affordable GPU cards.

Post by **cgp44** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:51 am

Maybe they were losing so much for each DK2 and the preordering numbers
were so banannas that they had to sell to FB. ha ha ha. just kidding