Any TDVision news in the wake of NVISION?

Post by **zazoo** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:46 am

In light of the renewed stereoscopic gaming commitment by nVidia at the recent NVISION event, is there any news from TDVision? I saw that TDVision and nVidia are "Strategic Partners" on TDVision's web page. I like it that new 3d LCD panels and shutterglasses are making headlines, but personally I want a HMD with dedicated left/right images fed to each eye for stereoscopic gaming.

I have been keeping my eye on news regarding the HD version of the TDVisor. The NVISION news has given me hope for the future of stereoscopic gaming in general...now I just want the best hardware solution to back up the software

Post by **TeraBit** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:29 am

From what I hear the commercial Launch should be sometime in September (a couple of weeks delay on the original August)..

Some Official information/update would be appreciated though, since August has indeed come and gone, and some I am sure (myself included) have held off getting an alternative S-3D solution to wait for the TDVisor-HD / SD.

Post by **zazoo** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:04 am

Thanks for the reply, TeraBit. I found the stereoscopic gaming news from the NVISION event very encouraging, and I'm really pulling for TDVision to succeed in this market. I'm really hoping for HMD's in general to gain more market acceptance, because I feel they are the best possible means to reach a "suspension of disbelief" in 3D gaming. TDVision can (and should) take its time to get the engineering right on the TDVisor, as far as I'm concerned. With a high-quality product, I think they are in a position to capitalize on the stereo 3D buzz that has permeated the entertainment industry.

Post by **crim3** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:34 pm

zazoo wrote:I'm really hoping for HMD's in general to gain more market acceptance, because I feel they are the best possible means to reach a "suspension of disbelief" in 3D gaming.

I second that.

Post by **eschur** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:07 pm

Hi everybody! We have been working really hard on the redesigned TDVisor and we hate to keep you waiting! We are going to put up some new pics on this thread and updates later this week. I have a couple here I just got in from our labs that I will attach. Please notice the amazing difference in the size of the control box for the TDVisor! (The small one is the new design) Also check out or new TDVReady logo for TDVision compatible computers and Blu-ray players.

Post by **Tril** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:16 pm

Based on the pictures, it looks like TDVision modified the TDVisor to make it use a single DVI input instead of two VGA inputs.

Post by **Freke1** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:29 pm

Your Logo (and commercial) looks danm good, I think

Post by **Tril** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:37 pm

Freke1 wrote:Your Logo (and commercial) looks danm good, I think

Commercial? Where?

Post by **TeraBit** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:44 pm

Looks like things are cooking along nicely 8)

Looking good!

Post by **Tril** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:46 pm

Don't forget to add your logo to the boxes.

Post by **Freke1** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:15 pm

Tril wrote:
Freke1 wrote:Your Logo (and commercial) looks danm good, I think
Commercial? Where?

Saw one yesterday on MTBS's mainpage.

Post by **zazoo** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:39 pm

Hello Ethan--thanks for the update! I'm glad to hear things are progressing--and I'm also glad that TDV is taking the time to refine the product. Its true that its hard to wait, but I am in the "good things are worth waiting for" camp. Looking forward to the future updates.

Post by **jumbo_spaceman** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:04 pm

Um, TDVision's site is GONE! I hope they're just updating for their big launch, because my interest in HMDs is growing. I'm put-off by the ghosting and lack of support seen with many other solutions and I'm ready for something better. I just hope that the frequent delays and weird price changes up to this point aren't reflected in TDVision's future business practices. If they don't provide working 3D for games on launch, I'll probably hold off. But if they do, and if the price becomes reasonable (no more than $600-$700) I might just be unable to resist. They should partner with IZ3D for driver support.

Too bad everything in this fledgling industry takes so damn long. Waiting for shutter glasses to be supported on new hardware and OS, waiting for TDVisor, Waiting for ANYTHING from Nvidia, Waiting for IZ3D to fix their broken 1.09 BETA, Waiting for polarized glasses with reduced ghosting, Waiting for mainstream auto-stereoscopic TVs, etc... I got a taste of s3D with shutter glasses back when they were supported by Nvidia and I have been craving it ever-since. I know s3D is not a right, but a privilege. I can't, however, understand why something so incredibly awesome fails to rouse enough interest from the entertainment industry to take off and become the new standard.

Post by **Neil** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:06 pm

It's up. http://www.tdvision.com. Works for me. Go to the main news site too.

Regards,
Neil

Post by **jumbo_spaceman** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:14 pm

It's up. http://www.tdvision.com. Works for me. Go to the main news site too.

That's bizarre. It doesn't work for me

. I guess I'll try again when I get home.

Post by **jumbo_spaceman** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:21 pm

jumbo_spaceman wrote:
It's up. http://www.tdvision.com. Works for me. Go to the main news site too.
That's bizarre. It doesn't work for me . I guess I'll try again when I get home.

I retract my statement. It works now. I should shut up

Post by **Welder** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:58 pm

Could have just been a DNS server hic-up on your route to their server.

Post by **da_giz** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:40 am

Tril wrote:Based on the pictures, it looks like TDVision modified the TDVisor to make it use a single DVI input instead of two VGA inputs.

That would be interesting, can someone from TDVision confirm this? Ethan?

If it is only one input, how is the splitting done? Do you set a resolution of 1600*600 (2560*720 HD version), is that possible?
Does the box split that signal?
Or does it come with a Y-type DVI-cable which merges the two outputs of the graphics card to one input in the box?

The main question being, how many outputs will it use on my graphics card?

Post by **Damian** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:14 pm

Well with TDVision talking about Blu-ray support, I'm guessing they need to comply with the Blu-ray content protection method, HDCP... Which means DVI or HDMI, as VGA doesn't support HDCP.

I would be curious how it supports multiple signals too, if it is using DVI now instead of dual VGA. As far as I know a single DVI cable can't support 2 independent signals, only 2 different images in one signal which is split in two by the TDVisor input hardware and sent off to different eyes (an over-under or side-by-side image). I guess everyone is going to have a different opinion, but I personally would prefer 2 separate signals from 2 separate physical connections.

Also if it is using just a single cable, they won't be able to do the side-by-side trick anyway with the HD version (at least at full resolution) because that would mean the computer needs to output 2 times the max horizontal resolution (for both eyes), 1024 + 1024... 2048 x 768 signal. Which is a problem since a single DVI cable can only output up to a maximum resolution of 1920 x 1200.
Although for over-under it is within the resolution limit, 1024 x 1536.
But still this isn't elegant at all !

What I'd love to see is if the TDVisor input processing box could process many different modes of S3D transmission, such as interlace, side-by-side/over-under, page-flipped, two separate signals, etc, which could be swapped between with a switch.
I don't see that this would really add that much more cost, as most of the hardware needed for different stereoscopic effects is shared anyway, so it would mostly be micro-controller programming (which costs nothing once the code is written).
I was annoyed about for example Vuzix AV920 vs VR920, you can use AV920 with many different sources because it processes page-flipped signals to get stereoscopics. Also the AV920 has inter-changeable connectors so you can connect it to different sources (such as DVD players, iPods, as well as generic connectors such as Composite AV).

VR920 on the other hand has only one connection type, the one that AV920 lacks, VGA.
But the VR920 can't just take a common S3D signal and display it... At least this is my understanding of how it works. The source computer needs to have a driver installed which sends a standard page-flip signal, but it requires another signal, the 'sync' signal, to be sent at the same time (by USB I assume).
Which means that even if you have a separate application which can output a common S3D signal format, the VR920 is useless without the Vuzix driver. (This seems to be even the case for games programmed with the VR920 SDK, it doesn't output S3D if the driver isn't present on the system.)
Which is a huge problem because it means now the HMD is very limited. It can only be used 1) On a PC (due to connector) 2) that PC must be using Windows XP or Vista 32-bit (64-bit doesn't work), and 3) have the driver software installed.

(And for those of you wondering, it seems even if you use another driver instead of Vuzix it doesn't work without the Vuzix driver there first. The latest IZ3D driver for example supports VR920 and 64-bit operating systems, but you can't use that output without the Vuzix driver... In other words while IZ3D works in 64-bit the VR920 support does not.)

Sorry I got kind of distracted... :p
I guess what I'm trying to express is that it would be really brilliant if the input signal processing box of the TDVisor could take any common signal, thus freeing it from source dependency (operating system would be irrelevant, as long as the application can support outputting a common S3D signal), or it doesn't even need to be a computer, if the connection type could be swapped between.
And I appreciate that last bit would be another annoying complexity and add to costs, so how about this:

---------[ ]------[ _ ]

-- is the cable, [ ] contains hardware specifcally for receiving a certain connection type, and then the last bit of cable connects to the processing box through a generic connection (whose signal is generated by the connection hardware). In this way, additional connection types could be purchased later, as TDVision would be manufacturing and selling -------[ ], the connector, cable, and hardware needed for receiving that signal. And then the signal processor doesn't need lots of different chips for processing different signal types, it's shared between any connection you might decide to attach.

Post by **ssiu** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:47 pm

Damian wrote:Also if it is using just a single cable, they won't be able to do the side-by-side trick anyway with the HD version (at least at full resolution) because that would mean the computer needs to output 2 times the max horizontal resolution (for both eyes), 1024 + 1024... 2048 x 768 signal. Which is a problem since a single DVI cable can only output up to a maximum resolution of 1920 x 1200.

I believe 1920x1200 is limit for single-link DVI; dual-link DVI has double the limit (still a single cable), and most recent ATI / NVIDIA video cards support dual-link DVI.

Post by **Snickersnack** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:57 pm

Damian wrote:
-snip desire support for multiple signal types on TDVisior

VR920 on the other hand has only one connection type, the one that AV920 lacks, VGA.
But the VR920 can't just take a common S3D signal and display it... At least this is my understanding of how it works. The source computer needs to have a driver installed which sends a standard page-flip signal, but it requires another signal, the 'sync' signal, to be sent at the same time (by USB I assume).
Which means that even if you have a separate application which can output a common S3D signal format, the VR920 is useless without the Vuzix driver. (This seems to be even the case for games programmed with the VR920 SDK, it doesn't output S3D if the driver isn't present on the system.)
Which is a huge problem because it means now the HMD is very limited. It can only be used 1) On a PC (due to connector) 2) that PC must be using Windows XP or Vista 32-bit (64-bit doesn't work), and 3) have the driver software installed.

-snip-

Hi Damian, I don't think this is accurate. I use my VR920 to play Ioquake3 and friends in stereo3d on Linux. I use an old Nvidia workstation graphics card and set its stereo output option to "DDC glasses". No Vuzix driver is involved. I think this might be an old VESA standard that never quite caught on.

Can the VR920 can also switch screens with a command sent over USB? It wouldn't surprise me if Vuzix added such a feature after Nvidia's recent stereo driver shenanigans.

To bring this back on topic, the vr920 has really wet my appetite for a nice HMD. If the TDVisor can be pursuaded to interface with one of the stereo output options of a modernish Quadro, I'll be falling over my self to get one.

Post by **Tril** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:44 am

The VR920 supports two modes to work in stereo 3D.

It receives a signal on the DDC pin to tell which eye it's receiving. This is to support the old NIDIA driver.
It receives a signal by usb to tell which eye it's receiving.

The problem with the first method is that you need to control the signal on the DDC pin.
The problem with the second method is that you need a usb driver for the operating system on which it's used. You need two separate drivers for Vista 32 bit and Vista 64 bit (no Vista 64 bit drivers were released until now).

We got a bit off topic.

Do the TDVisors come in many plastics colors? Ethan holds one red and one yellow on his avatar.

Post by **pierreye** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:38 pm

As a consumer, I think it's time for TDVision to do an official launch of the product. Further delay will not benefit the company. I'm really interested in viable HMD solution and would like to support the industry but with company keep giving out empty promise, people tends to look into other solution. I would like TDVision to survive and expand the business in order to bring HMD and stereovision to masses.