Sony will make a oculus-like hmd for ps4

[mickman]

yeah I also have concern regarding Sony simply slapping head tracking on the HMZt3 & calling it a V.R headset .. Sony have been going backwards over the past year or two & they're scratching to stay afloat. Wouldn't surprise me they're simply edging in on the latest resurrection of V.R ..... Jump in & drop a half assed attempt at a V.R headset into the market & scoop up on a few sales while the V.R buzz still circulates in the gaming arena.
Please let this not be true...

[MSat]

Wow. So Oculus is a bunch of idiots that will never deliver consumer hardware because (enter silly assumptions here) and they don't know the future of VR is shoving a suitable phone or heavy tablet (which a lot of people DON'T have) into a plastic enclosure with lenses? whelanweb already elaborated on most of the issues I take with Attreyu's claims, so there's no sense in repeating them.

Personally, I think your phone-based VR HMD is not the VR experience I'm looking forward to have, Attreyu.

On the contrary, I think Oculus knows full well what the future is. They certainly think mobile is going to play a very big part of it, which is why they have Carmack focused on it.

As usual, you completely miss the point. I didn't say powering games with mobile hardware isn't worthwhile to pursue, but rather that strapping a tablet or a phone to your face isn't the future of VR.

Wow. So Oculus is a bunch of idiots that will never deliver consumer hardware because (enter silly assumptions here) and they don't know the future of VR is shoving a suitable phone or heavy tablet (which a lot of people DON'T have) into a plastic enclosure with lenses? whelanweb already elaborated on most of the issues I take with Attreyu's claims, so there's no sense in repeating them.

Excuse me ? I have never, ever, said something derogatory towards the people from Oculus. I can't understand this attitude...I was talking about a paradigm shift in their tactics towards VR, from HMD to software/mobile, being the reason why, an year from now, the stand-alone Rift would have been put on hold completely in favour of other solutions.

Did I quote you? No. But what I said is essentially what you implied. You claimed they won't release the consumer hardware (despite the fact they say they will), but you never gave a legitimate reason why. You also stated they should just focus on software instead. So in essence you're either calling them liars, or that they're so stupid for thinking and trying to create hardware when in fact they'll fail. Which one is it?

Also, apparently you don't realize that HMDs have certain requirements that mobile devices never will - such as those related to visual persistence. If you rely on mobile devices for VR, then these issues will never get resolved. You need a purpose built device for a good experience.

Another thing you were wrong about is saying newer phones will have better motion sensors than what's in the current (or even future) Rift. While MEMS devices have certainly gotten better over time, the market for them is different than that for other ICs. The MPU-6000 gyro/g-sensor used in the Rift is a relatively expensive and one of the highest-performance devices I've come across. Both of these factors preclude it from being used in most phones/tablets. Just to further prove my point, the press release for the device dates back to November of 2010, meaning it has been around for a while now, yet I can find no evidence of it being used in any phone or tablet. So to say newer phones will have better motion tracking systems than the current, and especially future Rift is totally baseless. Nevermind the fact that Oculus is shooting for positional tracking which a phone may never have.

Personally, I think your phone-based VR HMD is not the VR experience I'm looking forward to have, Attreyu.

I can respect that. What I have a problem with is putting petty words in my mouth instead of expressing your views like a grown-up.

Maybe you should go back and read your posts in this thread, because what you said isn't far off from my exaggerated interpretation.

[colocolo]

MIAAAAAAAOWWWW!!!!!!!

[blazespinnaker]

As usual, you completely miss the point. I didn't say powering games with mobile hardware isn't worthwhile to pursue, but rather that strapping a tablet or a phone to your face isn't the future of VR.

No, you said:

"So Oculus is a bunch of idiots"

And I said:

You're wrong. They're not. They certainly do know what the future is. It's Mobile.

Of course, you then proceeded to put words in my mouth... but hey, that's your shtick.

Maybe instead of arguing against what you 'think' people are implying, you should try rebutting what they're actually saying. You might find such real discussions are less flame filled than the imaginary ones you're trying to have.

[Fractalys]

It's not a zero-sum game.

VRase, Duravis
These are steppingstones into the world of VR.
Strategy: Operational Excellence
Hardware: Some effort needed (Not out of the box)
Software: Low-end (wireless) / High-end (wired and streaming)

On this forum there is already a lot of confusion, which makes me wonder
if these products can get their messaging right. Sure it isn't that hard to setup
but what games will I be able to play? and which tablet should I use?
How are developers going to craft an experience that just works on every setup?

Oculus Rift
Getting serious about VR.
Strategy: Product Leadership
Hardware: Plug n play
Software: High-end

Has brand awareness and an opportunity for Ingredient branding like (Intel Inside).
Oculus is able to deliver a consistent message to consumers, if a game has a Rift logo
you can use this device (native).

Sony
Only for Sony customers it has to favor PS4/Sony products
Strategy: Customer Intimacy
Hardware: Plug n Play
Software: High-end

Sony wants to sell more of their products and keep people invested in their platform.
Awareness for VR isn't that good for Oculus, since Sony keeps consolegamers that otherwise
would have shifted to PC/Steambox just because of VR. Oculus still keeps a PC market and potential of
mobile platforms.

[Attreyu]

Did I quote you? No. But what I said is essentially what you implied. You claimed they won't release the consumer hardware (despite the fact they say they will), but you never gave a legitimate reason why. You also stated they should just focus on software instead. So in essence you're either calling them liars, or that they're so stupid for thinking and trying to create hardware when in fact they'll fail. Which one is it?

No, I haven't "implied" anything, I said it plain and simple that I don't think the Rift will ever be launched officialy. I gave plenty of reasons throughout the thread. It's your personal view that they're illegitimate and frankly I don't give a rat's ass about your opinion of my opinion but next time think twice before accusing me of stuff I've never said or implied about a third party.

Next time you're spouting crap, your ass gets quoted to the moderators alongside a formal complaint for flaming/trolling.

Also, apparently you don't realize that HMDs have certain requirements that mobile devices never will - such as those related to visual persistence. If you rely on mobile devices for VR, then these issues will never get resolved. You need a purpose built device for a good experience.

If there ever was an ambiguous statement about anything, this is it, and as such, absolutely baseless, not to mention dumb. For a good experience you need a device that can deliver. If I can have an awesome VR experience using my grandpa's modified glasses, it shits all over every HMD ever made and that's it. I don't need branding stamped down on it to exclusively deliver a certain kind of experience. If it does it, it does it.

Another thing you were wrong about is saying newer phones will have better motion sensors than what's in the current (or even future) Rift. While MEMS devices have certainly gotten better over time, the market for them is different than that for other ICs. The MPU-6000 gyro/g-sensor used in the Rift is a relatively expensive and one of the highest-performance devices I've come across. Both of these factors preclude it from being used in most phones/tablets. Just to further prove my point, the press release for the device dates back to November of 2010, meaning it has been around for a while now, yet I can find no evidence of it being used in any phone or tablet. So to say newer phones will have better motion tracking systems than the current, and especially future Rift is totally baseless. Nevermind the fact that Oculus is shooting for positional tracking which a phone may never have.

So because the MPU-6000 gyro is expensive it means that it's better for motion tracking compared to the GY-85 or GY-86 ?

Do you even know what "better" means when it comes to a 6DOF ? Do you have any clue as in what are the make or break deals for VR implementation ? Are you a motion tracking developer ? Do you sit all day programming arduino shields, implementing kalman filters and so on ? No ? Then shut up.

You need the device to rotate while attached to your head/body, based on the gyro/compass/magnetometer output data. You need it to be as driftless as possible, with the slowest latency but considering that the latencies, drift and other technicalities are generally (depending on the software solution used) so close to each other and so low these days that you as a user won't notice.

You might have the impression that sticking a sensor on your forehead is rocket science, thus the more expensive equipment is automatically the best in class. It's not.

Maybe you should go back and read your posts in this thread, because what you said isn't far off from my exaggerated interpretation.

Keep your exaggerated interpretations for yourself next time, fanboy.

[MSat]

As usual, you completely miss the point. I didn't say powering games with mobile hardware isn't worthwhile to pursue, but rather that strapping a tablet or a phone to your face isn't the future of VR.

No, you said:

"So Oculus is a bunch of idiots"

And I said:

You're wrong. They're not. They certainly do know what the future is. It's Mobile.

Of course, you then proceeded to put words in my mouth... but hey, that's your shtick.

Maybe instead of arguing against what you 'think' people are implying, you should try rebutting what they're actually saying. You might find such real discussions are less flame filled than the imaginary ones you're trying to have.

You really are thick. My initial response was aimed at Attreyu, and only when you misinterpreted what I said and commented did I respond do you. I didn't put words in your mouth, but now I can't help but wonder if you're a troll, or if 'Attreyu' is a sock puppet account of yours.

[Attreyu]

VRase, Duravis
These are steppingstones into the world of VR.
Strategy: Operational Excellence
Hardware: Some effort needed (Not out of the box)
Software: Low-end (wireless) / High-end (wired and streaming)

Maybe their message doesn't come across because they aren't here, explaining and marketing themselves.

About the effort required to slide a phone in or out, it's comparable to pluging the charger into the socket or the HDMI cable into the graphics card output. That's hardly a dealbreaker for anyone. Or it shouldn't be.

Wireless - the Rift doesn't even have it. Wired - the Rift wins because of connecting a HDMI cable directly wins everytime, compared with the somehow compressed video feed from the PC to the smartphone in case of using a smartphone. If you're using Miracast there's a slight latency issue. Maybe it will get sorted later, when we'll get better wifi (802.11ac both in PC and the smartphone?)

I agree with everything else you said.

[blazespinnaker]

You really are thick. My initial response was aimed at Attreyu, and only when you misinterpreted what I said and commented did I respond do you. I didn't put words in your mouth, but now I can't help but wonder if you're a troll, or if 'Attreyu' is a sock puppet account of yours.

No, you see, I replied to what you said. Rather than trying to imagine what you're saying and put words in your mouth, I just quoted you, and replied.

See how that works? Try it some time. You might find yourself involved in fewer flame wars.

As for being Attreyu's sock puppet, yes - I agree with him on some things but not on others. That happens on the internet, from time to time, or so i've been told.

[MSat]

No, I haven't "implied" anything, I said it plain and simple that I don't think the Rift will ever be launched officialy. I gave plenty of reasons throughout the thread. It's your personal view that they're illegitimate and frankly I don't give a rat's ass about your opinion of my opinion but next time think twice before accusing me of stuff I've never said or implied about a third party.

Next time you're spouting crap, your ass gets quoted to the moderators alongside a formal complaint for flaming/trolling.

Just to be clear, first you hijack a thread about Sony's HMD to turn it into a thread about what Oculus is doing wrong, why they won't succeed at their stated plans, and what they should do in turn. I wasn't the only one to view some of your posts as derogatory towards them. Frankly, I don't have a problem with your opinions of them as I have no vested interests. What I do take issue with is the fact is that you make erroneous or absurd claims which I see necessary to call you out on. By the way, what makes you so knowledgeable of the VR industry that the most successful VR company to date lacks?

Just to be clear, now you're verbally abusing me directly. Maybe you should consider reporting yourself to mods for trolling?

Also, apparently you don't realize that HMDs have certain requirements that mobile devices never will - such as those related to visual persistence. If you rely on mobile devices for VR, then these issues will never get resolved. You need a purpose built device for a good experience.

If there ever was an ambiguous statement about anything, this is it, and as such, absolutely baseless, not to mention dumb. For a good experience you need a device that can deliver. If I can have an awesome VR experience using my grandpa's modified glasses, it shits all over every HMD ever made and that's it. I don't need branding stamped down on it to exclusively deliver a certain kind of experience. If it does it, it does it.

Ambiguous? You're either definitely trolling, or you know absolutely nothing about VR. You have said nothing to refute my claim. That says it all. If your "grandpa's modified glasses" are so great, why don't you take them and go play somewhere else?

So because the MPU-6000 gyro is expensive it means that it's better for motion tracking compared to the GY-85 or GY-86 ?

Do you even know what "better" means when it comes to a 6DOF ? Do you have any clue as in what are the make or break deals for VR implementation ? Are you a motion tracking developer ? Do you sit all day programming arduino shields, implementing kalman filters and so on ? No ? Then shut up.

You need the device to rotate while attached to your head/body, based on the gyro/compass/magnetometer output data. You need it to be as driftless as possible, with the slowest latency but considering that the latencies, drift and other technicalities are generally (depending on the software solution used) so close to each other and so low these days that you as a user won't notice.

You might have the impression that sticking a sensor on your forehead is rocket science, thus the more expensive equipment is automatically the best in class. It's not.

Once again you prove that you don't know what you're talking about. I was specifically addressing the MPU-6000 MEMS device itself which is used in the Rift DK's IMU, not an IMU board like the GY-85/86. And yes, I do know what "better" means when it comes to "6DOF", thanks for asking.

What I was responding to in particular is your claim that cell phones will have better motion sensing capabilities than a purpose-built head tracker. The Rift uses, and will use better hardware, so your previous claim is flat out wrong. Now you're recanting and saying that even inferior products will be "close enough" and "a user won't notice". Whether or not that is true I can't say, but that's not what you originally said, so you're just contradicting yourself.

Keep your exaggerated interpretations for yourself next time, fanboy.

Fanboy? What did I say that you could construe as me taking a position as a "fanboy"? I'll tell you what I am a fan of, correcting someone when they're blatantly wrong in hopes that someone else won't get mislead by nonsense. Oculus is cool and all, but I don't have any particular attachment to them. Sorry to let you down in this regard.

[whelanweb]

Here's my prediction, you heard it here first:

Sony will not actually come out with their own HMD, they will actually partner with Oculus Rift (Investing with them lots of money) and will launch a publishing division for oculus developers, they'll probably invest in or be the main publisher for EVE VR and other oculus made from the ground up games, and that will make their ps4 even a better choice as a console.

And they'll probably bundle it together when the rift comes out.. Buy ps4 and Oculus rift together and save $100 , or something.

I said something quite similar to this in a previous post a few months back. Likely wont happen though.

Oculus and Sony already have some big business connections from ex Gaigi employees. It would be a win \ win for both Sony , Oculus and PC gamers.

Sony could provide Oculus with custom screens and make money on each Rift sold. Sony could also announce that the Rift would be supported with some of its AAA games on PS4. This would take very little effort from their huge development teams.

IF they done such a deal with Oculus they could ask that the Rift only be supported on PC and Playstation for an X amount of time and this would give them quite an advantage over the XBox in the first couple of years as its mostly going to be the hardcore gamers who will purchase the new consoles in the first year and with all the buzz surrounding the Rift having it supported exclusively on the PS4 console and PC will really hurt the new Xbox even if the Rift was only to appear at the end of next year.

Sony could also have the advantage of shipping quite a lot of the backlog of PS Moves they have lying around if they put in game support for it.

For people who say that this could never happen I would point you to the below Video and remember when Valve would never go on Playstation.

Sony love making big announcements and they really , really want to stick it to Microsoft this time around. I'm sure they would deal with the devil if they thought it would push sales of the PS4.

Oculus have been quite lately on news of their future plans and also haven't said much at all about Sony's plans. I'd both be very surprised and not surprised at all if Palmer walked on stage in Tokyo at the PS4 press conference and stated VR is coming to PS4 2014

Just imagine how the inter webs would explode...

I said above that this could be also good for PC Gamers as more Indy developers would create for the Rift as if its on PS4 they can realistically expect that 50 million consoles will be sold in the next 6 years and if they create a compelling VR experience its a very easy port from PC to PS4 this time around as Unity is supported on Playstation. Even if a fraction of PS users purchase a Rift say 2% that equates to 1 million possible customers on console alone for your game.

Realistically all joking aside VR needs to succeed on consoles for it to take off this time around. Not that many people have powerful PC gaming rigs and even some people that do dont have a clue how to use them. I often see people just buying PC's because the Box it's in looks pretty

I know somebody is going to write back and say ( you don't need a powerful rig for this experience and that experience, etc ) and yes I agree but VR needs to blow peoples socks off. They (general public ) want to play COD , Battlefield type games. Doesn't have to be state of the art graphics but it does need to be up to this generation's standards at 60fps. PS4 is at least capable of doing that.

I'm sick of FPS myself but I thats what the general Joe Blogs on the street will think about as soon as you mention VR.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMQVh7BG7kg

[MSat]

You really are thick. My initial response was aimed at Attreyu, and only when you misinterpreted what I said and commented did I respond do you. I didn't put words in your mouth, but now I can't help but wonder if you're a troll, or if 'Attreyu' is a sock puppet account of yours.

No, you see, I replied to what you said. Rather than trying to imagine what you're saying and put words in your mouth, I just quoted you, and replied.

See how that works? Try it some time. You might find yourself involved in fewer flame wars.

As for being Attreyu's sock puppet, yes - I agree with him on some things but not on others. That happens on the internet, from time to time, or so i've been told.

Flame wars? It must have been one-sided then because I didn't see it that way.

I know you like to get really defensive though when you knock Oculus (you've done it numerous times in the past) and someone points it out. You apparently have many issues with them, so why do you hang out on a forum about them?

[blazespinnaker]

Are you kidding, I love my Oculus rift!

I also think Carmack is a god. And palmer luckey is a visionary and genius. Who wouldn't?

Not to sure about Nate though. Hate how he's always interrupting Palmer during interviews, who I'd much rather listen to - but I'm sure they're best pals.

And it's a good thing they're focusing on mobile, because that's definitely the way to go!

Now .. if only they'd start working on Oasis then I would probably set up an altar with their pictures above it.

Of course, if they tried to patent the oculus rift, I'd laugh at them.

Oh, but wait, also I think the mass audience of the world doesn't want to shell out $500 like I would on a rift just to be isolated from everyone and nauseous.

Wow... how ... to ... hold... all ... these ... contradictory ... ideas .. in one ... brain....... going .... to ... explode!!!!

[whelanweb]

[the_wretched]

I guess strapping a phone/tablet to your head seems like a very obvious and tempting thing to do for us techies, but it is just not a mass-market compatible idea. If you tell some random guy/gal that's how to do VR they will laugh in your face and say "I'd never do that". I'm not saying there's no market for it or it won't work, but it won't be where VRs "future" lies, that notion is almost comical.

There's much more to VR than just having a pre-warped image displayed right in your face, yet that's about the only part those DIY "strapping solutions" address. Oculus knows that and it is part of the reason there is no consumer Rift yet, because they're still trying to figure it out and put it together in as tight a package as possible (they know they've probably got only one shot at this).

Anybody serious about this would have to create and support multiple desktop and mobile OSes with incredibly low-latency and stable streaming apps, provide support for them on potentially hundreds - if not thousands - of different "display devices". Would have to provide different optics and adapters for all the different devices. Would have to create some sort of Oculus-like SDK so that software can adjust rendering to be suited individually for those combinations of parts (or the experience will suck) and then get that integrated into VR games. Good luck with all that and I'm just scratching the tip of the iceberg of challenges that await you. There's a difference between "getting something to work" and making an attractive mass-market product.

[blazespinnaker]

http://unity3d.com/unity/multiplatform/mobile

http://www.hasbro.com/hasbromy3d/en_US/

Oh, btw, you do realize that Oculus is doing exactly this..... developing their SDK for android, right?

Except rather than re-using the device, they just want to re-use it's rendering capabilties, video out, and you have to buy yet ANOTHER redundant screen and IMU.

Personally, I think they should use a shell + IMU + optics.

[Attreyu]

Just to be clear, first you hijack a thread about Sony's HMD...

And you replied to it, keeping the posts off-topic.

...to turn it into a thread about what Oculus is doing wrong, why they won't succeed at their stated plans, and what they should do in turn. I wasn't the only one to view some of your posts as derogatory towards them.

Who cares how many you are ? It doesn't mean it's true. You want an exact quote again ? Here it is: "I don't think Oculus Rift will be ever launched officialy." That's it. It's nothing derogatory about it.

Frankly, I don't have a problem with your opinions of them as I have no vested interests.

Yeah, obviously.

What I do take issue with is the fact is that you make erroneous or absurd claims which I see necessary to call you out on.

By putting words in my mouth instead of actually adressing the points like everybody else has and telling me how you're not going to buy anything I might come up with because criticising the Rift is a punishable offense or something. Give me a break.

By the way, what makes you so knowledgeable of the VR industry that the most successful VR company to date lacks?

Eh ?

Just to be clear, now you're verbally abusing me directly. Maybe you should consider reporting yourself to mods for trolling?

This is getting ridiculous by the minute.

Ambiguous? You're either definitely trolling, or you know absolutely nothing about VR. You have said nothing to refute my claim. That says it all. If your "grandpa's modified glasses" are so great, why don't you take them and go play somewhere else?

The refutal is exactly in the grandpa's modified glasses example. You should be thankful that competing indie alternatives appear on the market istead of defending Rift's position which it would theoretically lead to a monopolistic takeover of VR. Not to mention Oculus was started by a guy posting in here. Competition is healthy in general and especially healthy for the VR sector.

Once again you prove that you don't know what you're talking about. I was specifically addressing the MPU-6000 MEMS device itself which is used in the Rift DK's IMU, not an IMU board like the GY-85/86. And yes, I do know what "better" means when it comes to "6DOF", thanks for asking.

What exactly were you "adressing" mate ? You've said something along the lines "the MPU-6000 is better than the IMUs used in smartphones because it's more expensive". It's 15$. It's a simple arduino chip with an added dedicated processing unit which is advantageous to the developers only (if any, since InvenSense are not so eager to let independent parties to program it, it has been mostly reversed engineered by capturing the firmware) , not the end user. You're clueless.

What I was responding to in particular is your claim that cell phones will have better motion sensing capabilities than a purpose-built head tracker.

I have never said that. What I have said is that a smartphone/tablet adapter could in theory offer the same level of VR experience since what you need is a display, a 6DOF and the software to make them work combined. As in the same components found in a Rift.

The Rift uses, and will use better hardware, so your previous claim is flat out wrong.

No, it doesn't (better displays on current smartphones, equal motion tracking circuitry) and no, it won't, hence my "prediction". In fact, the second some dude comes up with a low-latency, wired video feed solution from the PC to a smartphone/tablet, that second the Rift is officially trailing behind and fastly approaching extinction since they lose the only exclussive asset in their sleeve: being unique in the market.

Now you're recanting and saying that even inferior products will be "close enough" and "a user won't notice". Whether or not that is true I can't say, but that's not what you originally said, so you're just contradicting yourself.

Please try to pay attention to what I say, or stop projecting your out of context quotes upon me. I've specifically said that a user wouldn't notice the differences between the positional tracking solutions used on the Rift vs. smartphones. I've said that because it's not the gyro that causes disruptions of the VR experience, but other factors (display size, FOV, low resolution, lenses, case design, etc.). The IMU induced latency is extremely low and tends to 0.

If you really want to quote me, here's one: well made adapters accompanied by well made software + hi-res AMOLED phablets/tablets will blow Rift out of the market in one year. Not just "close enough" but vastly better.

Fanboy? What did I say that you could construe as me taking a position as a "fanboy"?

Distorting my words into attacking Oculus and then taking offense over it, like you're their lawyer or something. This is typical fanboy attitude.

I'll tell you what I am a fan of, correcting someone when they're blatantly wrong in hopes that someone else won't get mislead by nonsense.

Then you should've treated my affirmations the same way other people have, by presenting articulated responses and arguments.

[Attreyu]

I guess strapping a phone/tablet to your head seems like a very obvious and tempting thing to do for us techies, but it is just not a mass-market compatible idea. If you tell some random guy/gal that's how to do VR they will laugh in your face and say "I'd never do that". I'm not saying there's no market for it or it won't work, but it won't be where VRs "future" lies, that notion is almost comical.

My ideea of perfect VR is wearing nothing, the VR being projected directly in my head if possible. Probably some wireless, contactless, brain-computer interface.

If your ideea of VR is wearing a helmet on your head, well...for me and others like me is to be freed of wearing hardware as much as possible. Glasses would be perfect, or something as unconspicuous or light as possible.

[Fractalys]

VRase, Duravis
These are steppingstones into the world of VR.
Strategy: Operational Excellence
Hardware: Some effort needed (Not out of the box)
Software: Low-end (wireless) / High-end (wired and streaming)

Maybe their message doesn't come across because they aren't here, explaining and marketing themselves.

About the effort required to slide a phone in or out, it's comparable to pluging the charger into the socket or the HDMI cable into the graphics card output. That's hardly a dealbreaker for anyone. Or it shouldn't be.

Wireless - the Rift doesn't even have it. Wired - the Rift wins because of connecting a HDMI cable directly wins everytime, compared with the somehow compressed video feed from the PC to the smartphone in case of using a smartphone. If you're using Miracast there's a slight latency issue. Maybe it will get sorted later, when we'll get better wifi (802.11ac both in PC and the smartphone?)

I agree with everything else you said.

Sure its still early days for them to get their message out. There is still a difference between Durovis and the explosion of Oculus on Kickstarter. This is quite telling to me.

Just sliding in a phone/tablet isn't going to cut it. By making just a piece of the solution they can (to a lesser extent control) the user experience. It's about getting it right (into one simple solution) to assure a certain level of quality.

Omni is also very cautious about their shoes without addons for regular shoes (which is ultimately cheaper for consumers).
By sticking with shoes they can deliver a certain level of quality.

Choice and cost are important, but not in the early days of a VR rebirth. It's about making us believe this is finally IT.

[blazespinnaker]

Do you own an oculus rift? Do you get motion sick? A lot of people do.

Fact is, VR sickness is a serious problem not easily solved. It's also weird putting these goggles around your head and blocking out everyone else. Fanboys like us will do that in a heartbeat, but not that vast majority of the population.

Now, paying $500 for the privilege of doing this absurd activity?

The thing about the mobile device gizmo is that there will be a solution people can buy on a lark.

[MSat]

@Attreyu

Apparently you're already dead set on ignoring fundamental points in my responses to you and instead only want to focus on and attack those which you seem to consider as being an assault to your ego. One thing is clear, though: you have repeatedly been making erroneous remarks on all the technical aspects you've commented about. I have no reason to point them out again as you have demonstrated no intention of doing anything but misinterpreting and skewing them. The only thing I regret is that my posts have fallen on deaf ears. With that said, I wish you luck on your project (I mean it), as I have no intention of further perpetuating this:

[lmimmfn]

is there any way to ignore people on this forum so i dont have to read the stupid arguments of the 2-3 people ping-ponging im right youre wrong arguments? its ruining the thread.

[zalo]

If you're using Miracast there's a slight latency issue. Maybe it will get sorted later, when we'll get better wifi (802.11ac both in PC and the smartphone?)

Quick comment: Gigabyte's wireless HDMI solution is indistinguishable from wired (in both fidelity and latency) from the testing that I've done. If one were to use a battery with USB charging (and the powerhack on the rift) and a wireless tracker like the ones you can get from YEI (or a smartphone), a high quality wireless rift experience would be trivial.

Back on topic: Sony's HMD will likely be PS4 exclusive. I wonder if the HMD will connect to your controller to be wireless.

[Applemung]

Do you own an oculus rift? Do you get motion sick? A lot of people do.

Fact is, VR sickness is a serious problem not easily solved. It's also weird putting these goggles around your head and blocking out everyone else. Fanboys like us will do that in a heartbeat, but not that vast majority of the population.

Now, paying $500 for the privilege of doing this absurd activity?

The thing about the mobile device gizmo is that there will be a solution people can buy on a lark.

I have to say otherwise, I have shown close to 50 different people the Oculus Dev kit and they were ALL blown away by it.
From non gamers to hardcore gamers, most were willing to purchase the dev kit off the bat even with some of its shortcomings.
Around %80 had a bit of motion sickness that came from understandable sources such as moving up and down stairs whilst spinning around.
In about a week, those who continually used the rift got over the sickness and can do any range of movement and not get sick.

When you put on a VR headset for the first time, it changes the world and how you see gaming. I was sceptical about the Oculus myself, but after trying it I am hooked.
So when you mention people buying it on a whim I think that is a tiny bit incorrect, as you do that with most things in life you try before you buy.
Enter your nearest electronics store and there will be a VR device to try out, that's the future I imagine.

I can see the attraction of BYO screen but for casual gamers this would be a nightmare. This new generation of gamers know screw all about how to properly set up
their own computers let alone correctly setting up a VR helmet. People are going to want to be able to plug and go with minimal fuss and I can see that sliding in some random phone is going to require allot of user end adjustment. Maybe in the future there might be some standardised screen but I highly doubt that, then comes in phone shape, phone centring. It does not take allot of mismatch to make a VR game a puke fest. In short - A BYO screen set up would have to have an extremely easy plug and play style so that the set up can be correct first time every time. Is it doable? Yes. Is it the future? Only time and technology will tell.

To add to my point - just take a look at the Oculus forums, a large amount of people that bought the unit can barely operate it in it's normal configuration let alone when a problem occurs they go into meltdown mode. I almost had an aneurysm when I read the thread about some dude putting his lenses in upside down and almost cracking the screen. How the hell do you get that wrong?

What I'm trying to say here is that MOST people who use this new technology would have absolutely no idea how it operates and how to customize it to themselves, so when they get an error they just assume the technology is crap. Unlike our generation, who have to know exactly how things tick, we know how to look for information to fix our problems. This new generation of gamers want everything spoon fed (not all but definitely a large portion from my experience).

Hopefully I've made some sense in my post.

TLDR = Have to make technology idiot proof and it will succeed.

[Krenzo]

is there any way to ignore people on this forum so i dont have to read the stupid arguments of the 2-3 people ping-ponging im right youre wrong arguments? its ruining the thread.

Go to your Control Panel. Click "Friends & Foes" and "Manage Foes". Anyone you add as a Foe will cause their posts to be ignored, but it will still leave one line to tell you that you're ignoring the post where one occurs.

[android78]

is there any way to ignore people on this forum so i dont have to read the stupid arguments of the 2-3 people ping-ponging im right youre wrong arguments? its ruining the thread.

This is the best part of the forum these days. It's like behind the shelter shed at a primary school at lunch time... Fight, fight, fight, fight!
Ok, I'm going home. Anyone with me?

[zalo]

is there any way to ignore people on this forum so i dont have to read the stupid arguments of the 2-3 people ping-ponging im right youre wrong arguments? its ruining the thread.

Yes, go into your user account control panel, click "Friends and Foes", and then "Manage Foes", and add the specified users to the "Foes" list. Then add me, Palmertech, geekmaster, cyber reality, krenzo, Bishop51, nateight, brantlew, dycus, foisi, fingerflinger, thelostbrain, rfurlan etc. to your friends list so their posts are highlighted and you can get the real opinions around here. EDIT: Ninja'd!

Also I bet Sony could save space and weight in their HMD if they spread the driver board, battery, and wireless recievers for the VR headset evenly between the controller and the HMD itself (if they're to be connected by a cable, which could make a lot of sense if they did it like Nintendo did with the wiimote and all the peripherals).

[blazespinnaker]

I have to say otherwise, I have shown close to 50 different people the Oculus Dev kit and they were ALL blown away by it.

Oh certainly, I as well. But there's a lot of downside in these demos as well. In the end, I just don't see people paying all that much money for it - except for people like us.

It's probably one of the reasons why Oculus is trying to figure out how to give it away for free. Something a lot easier to do with the FOV2GO approach.

[blazespinnaker]

is there any way to ignore people on this forum so i dont have to read the stupid arguments of the 2-3 people ping-ponging im right youre wrong arguments? its ruining the thread.

Go to your Control Panel. Click "Friends & Foes" and "Manage Foes". Anyone you add as a Foe will cause their posts to be ignored, but it will still leave one line to tell you that you're ignoring the post where one occurs.

It's actually somewhat germane to the topic. With the Sony coming in, Oculus is about to be rolled over. Their reply seems to be to focus on mobile. There's some heated argument on what exactly that should mean .. and yeah, that could probably be toned down a bit.

So sure there's a certain amount of drama here... but this was a dramatic change in the landscape and dramatic things need to be done.

[Chriky]

In fact, the second some dude comes up with a low-latency, wired video feed solution from the PC to a smartphone/tablet...

a few posts ago you said you could already do this

[Flassan]

If the rumours turn out to be true I think that this is fantastic news for VR fans as well as Oculus. Reading this I think it all depends on what your expectations are.
Despite all the hype and media coverage I don't think it's realistic to imagine that OVR are competing head-to-head with Sony. That would be like comparing a local shop to Wall-Mart. OVR came out of the hacking/modding/enthusiast community and I'm sure they will continue to serve them well. If you compare them to Sony anything they achieve is likely to look like a failure and I don't think that's fair.
Put it this way, a AAA developer would have to think long and hard before adding Rift support to their game, whereas the same developer would have to think equally long and hard before not adding support for a Sony gaming HMD.
Should OVR come up with some good innovations they could probably license them to Sony and must be a great contender for providing specialist R&D and testing services to them. I expect their relationship is very good.
Its extremely hard to make a business case within a large corporation because of the need for hard-nosed numbers and risk to reputation. The up-swell of interest in VR is exactly what the Sony engineers will have been hoping for. They have the technology and enthusiasm, they just need the green-light.
I also can't imagine there are many AAA FPS devs out there who wouldn't want to try their game in VR, and that kind of intangible motivation is hard to put on a spreadsheet. Let's hope they will also be afraid of losing out to competitors if they don't embrace VR.
The exquisite timing of this 'leak' suggests to me that it's true and I've also been told by contacts to 'watch this space'.

[the_wretched]

My ideea of perfect VR is wearing nothing, the VR being projected directly in my head if possible. Probably some wireless, contactless, brain-computer Interface.

If your ideea of VR is wearing a helmet on your head, well...for me and others like me is to be freed of wearing hardware as much as possible. Glasses would be perfect, or something as unconspicuous or light as possible.

I agree 100% with that vision. I disagree on how we are going to get there, especially in the short term.

That far off future is also not what you were arguing about in this and other threads. You are vocally promoting your opinion that adapter based VR goggles (such as your own) are going to push Oculus out of the market before they even launch. You said "If they're not complete idiots, they won't launch it." - so much for never saying anything degradatory. I (and others) on the other hand believe the consumer Rift WILL launch and I believe they would not be complete idiots for doing so, quite the opposite. We will see who is right in less than 12 months.

IMO any solution involving phones/tablets is always going to be worse than a specialized device. It's like those roller-blades you can strap to the bottom of your shoe - sure it will work, somehow, but it won't be as good an experience as the real thing. There's a reason that Rift/Nexus7 Youtube video was a parody. I and others like Applemung have brought up many issues such a solution would have to solve and frankly almost none of them were addressed. If you can demonstrate how to extract the sensor data from any phone/tablet for the PC, use that for low-latency headtracking in a game and then send the (at least) 1080p 60fps videostream back to the device with next to no delay (wirelessly or over USB) - all in way that needs to be almost as simple to set up as plugging in a HDMI/DVI cable - then we can start talking.

But even that would only be the beginning, as you won't have any compatible software. Just passing through a game rendered for the RiftDK might work OK for a short demo, but will cause eyestrain and headaches because the FOV, strereo3D settings and warping won't match your adapter/phone/optics configuration. So you will need an SDK. And get that integrated by developers. And fast because you're running out of time to get a head start. Good luck with all that. 2014 is almost here.

This got way longer than I intended and I don't want to further derail this thread, sorry. Let's talk about Sony's upcoming kit and it's implications for VR/Oculus.

It's actually somewhat germane to the topic. With the Sony coming in, Oculus is about to be rolled over. Their reply seems to be to focus on mobile. There's some heated argument on what exactly that should mean .. and yeah, that could probably be toned down a bit.

So sure there's a certain amount of drama here... but this was a dramatic change in the landscape and dramatic things need to be done.

I think we'll need to wait and see what Sony has to offer before jumping to conclusions. If it turns out to be PS4 exclusive Oculus and others have an open field for doing very well in the PC market. And even if it is PS4/PC - how do we know it will blow the consumer Rift out of the water? We haven't seen/tried either product. Maybe it will be better, maybe worse.

Of course the bigger marketing dollars will be hard to compete with. But marketing is not everything, especially in the gaming scene. They'd also have to play catch-up on the software side of things, although it might not be too late for that if they announce and ship an SDK soon(ish).

Exciting times and I'm looking forward to the real reveal!

[Attreyu]

In fact, the second some dude comes up with a low-latency, wired video feed solution from the PC to a smartphone/tablet...

a few posts ago you said you could already do this

It's not launched though...yet.

[colocolo]

strange.... Sony is going to offer the HMZ-T3 for a moderate 1300$....

[shiva]

And even if it is PS4/PC - how do we know it will blow the consumer Rift out of the water? We haven't seen/tried either product. Maybe it will be better, maybe worse.

IMO Sony can't make anything better than the Rift, at least not for some time, simply because sony doesn't have CARMACK, the man who defined every single game we've been playing for the last 20 years
That dude's like the Konami cheatcode of the Oculus world, it's almost not even fair for Sony

[colocolo]

If OculusVR would want to give people a reason why they should buy the Rift and not Sony's here the
killer argument.
Give a school class a few dozen headsets for free to show parents why they should buy their kids a Rift.
That would be awesome promotion and would probably go worldwide in newspapers.
parents always want their children to do sth useful with the PC. its common folklore.
This concept wouldn`t get through once for sure but at least it could trigger parents' paying willingness.

[sutekiB]

If Sony release a VRHMD I hope it will not create a separate standard that confuses gamers and makes harder work for developers. I also hope they will support OR on PS4, as well as the Virtuix Omni. It would be the right thing to do for the industry and for their company financially. It will give PC gamers a reason to buy a PS4 - as they won't have to purchase Sony's HMD as well just to play their exclusive titles, as they can use the OR they already own. It also means that potential PS4 owners who are considering moving from console to PC so they can enjoy VR will feel comfortable buying a PS4, knowing they can still get into PC gaming later and use the OR on both systems. This means a bigger PC VR games market = more investment & higher volumes + quality. More money is made on software, not hardware after all, hence the reason consoles are often sold at a loss/next to nothing.

TLDR work together, everybody wins.

[ss248]

simply because sony doesn't have CARMACK

Carmack is god and he doesn't make mistakes at all.
Ave, Carmack!

This is what you sounds like. It's like you forget about Rage fiasco. Please stop it.
He doesn't make such a big difference right now.

[blazespinnaker]

Carmack doesn't make a big difference on hardware, he's pretty good on the software side though.

[xhonzi]

is there any way to ignore people on this forum so i dont have to read the stupid arguments of the 2-3 people ping-ponging im right youre wrong arguments? its ruining the thread.

Ohmygosh! You didn't use proper punctuation or capitalization! LET'S FIGHT!