Vadim Asadov Volume 3

[BlackQ]

Hi, guys!

First of all thank you all for your questions and interest to 3D and iZ3D. Before I'll start answer question I want to make some introduction to describe in more details current status of everything. I also want to say sorry about delay with driver release (even sooner I will explain the reasons ) and also say sorry because I need to keep some names non-disclosed because negotiations are in progress.

So, let's start. We planned to release our driver beta at early August, but it is shifted for 4 weeks - I hope to have first beta early next week Yes, it is bad, but first of all of course it is software development - mythical human hours . Second we changed our plan "on the fly" because OEM contract preparation was started with company X - very nice and very big. Thus, as any OEM, they use their own brand and driver interface has to be modified and localized... So, now we have two version ready - iZ3D and X - core and functions are the same , but interface and outputs are different.

Another news was related with different type of outputs - technically we are ready for all of them, but some 3d hardware company (A,B,C etc ) want to make it free for their device and we are talking with them to release their specific output for free in exchange of some specific benefits. Our position is very simple: 3d market is not big enough at the moment and more 3d devices enable for games and other applications will come is better for market - it is too early to compete for all of us. If this negotiations will be successful we'll release driver with set of outputs free for some specific devices and 50-100 USD for other devices. We have a lot of positive responses now from companies, but agreements did not sign yet - good news is that outputs works good with that devices.

OK - now 1.09 - we did not make architectural changes - but we made a lot of internal improvement inside core of the driver to make it faster and solve some old bugs. Some new keys helped us easilly fix bugs in Spore (double interface) and WarHammer Online (slow or crash at start) - some people had a chance to try Spore in 3D during going nVision08.

We shift most of profile operation to Control Center - now you can change many parameters yourself - specifically autofocus speed and area of analysis (don't make it too big ) Simplification is a key of success - if we all want to make 3d mass market. Even more we need to think together how to make gamers world 3d - this is a biggest goal of our company nad we have some ideas, but your input would be very useful for us. I don't want to be toooo long and to finalize my speech I will say that I hope to increase our development team soon to cover all things we need to cover: DX10, command buffer, OpenGL, iZ3D MPC, CG support, 3d recording, SDK, ..... hmmm... may be it is better to make it open source

[BlackQ]

Hi, yuriythebest1!

"what will iz3d do marketing-wise to increase sales? What conventions will you visit like siggraph, ces and perhaps E3?"

I assume that presenting iZ3D in retail (store, shopping mall, other location) is key for us at the moment - people need to "touch" 3D before buy it. Reports, opinions, magazine are good, but seeing is believing Conventions are important part of PR, but we are going to make unique sales proposal for 2d gamer - this is most important thing atm. Imagine you need to explain to somebody why 3d is good for him or why he needs 3d, but this guy has never heard about 3d and doesn't know what is this ... You are 3d gamers and you know everything know, but market education is something special only community can help I think - we need to grow together with you.

"overall, does iz3d only advertise on the web and in select stores or is there going to be television-based advertisement as well?"

do you know gamers watching TV ? I did it long time ago last time - I have an Internet

[BlackQ]

Hi, LukePC1!

"When will it be out?"

Beta release - next week

"- What are the new features and how do they work? I saw lasersight"

most features are the same, but it is easier to manage them now. We remove primary monitor limitation - now iZ3D can be second monitor (but need to be connected to one GPU). Clipping removed (when render make black stripe on the side of images). Render optimized for racing games. Yes, dynamical lasersight to trace target depths automatically

"- What outputs are supported? Or when it is shorter: what is NOT supported?"

All known : HMD / Dual Projectors, Interlace, Planar, Checkerboard, Simple shutter, VR920

"- How are they supported? Are at least some SG supported with Sync?"

No, sync is an issue - we are just sending left / right with frequency defined by game - we need to have some activity from companies like SDK (VR920 is good sample)

"- How much will it be?"

50 - 100 USD - depends on device type

"- Will we have to buy every seperate output? Or if we buy the driver is it free for all outputs, so we can experiment with different devices/solutions?"

30 days trial for each output, but you need to buy each you like

"- How does the protection work? Is it for each computer (hardware)?"

Yes, we use hardware base protection. Defense generates key based on your hardware configuration. Thus if you want to make upgrade de-activate driver first.

"- Will we have to buy a new driver if we upgrade the PC/the CPU?"

No, if you'll deactivate it first.

I see the menue has grown. Are there still some 'hidden' options in the config?

Not all keys are in menu now of course, but we tried to follow users' experience and bring all necessary functions to menu. Some keys are still is profiles only, but they are necessary for very complicated issues only.

[chrisjarram]

Hi, guys!

First of all thank you all for your questions and interest to 3D and iZ3D. Before I'll start answer question I want to make some introduction to describe in more details current status of everything. I also want to say sorry about delay with driver release (even sooner I will explain the reasons ) and also say sorry because I need to keep some names non-disclosed because negotiations are in progress.

So, let's start. We planned to release our driver beta at early August, but it is shifted for 4 weeks - I hope to have first beta early next week Yes, it is bad, but first of all of course it is software development - mythical human hours . Second we changed our plan "on the fly" because OEM contract preparation was started with company X - very nice and very big. Thus, as any OEM, they use their own brand and driver interface has to be modified and localized... So, now we have two version ready - iZ3D and X - core and functions are the same , but interface and outputs are different.

Another news was related with different type of outputs - technically we are ready for all of them, but some 3d hardware company (A,B,C etc ) want to make it free for their device and we are talking with them to release their specific output for free in exchange of some specific benefits. Our position is very simple: 3d market is not big enough at the moment and more 3d devices enable for games and other applications will come is better for market - it is too early to compete for all of us. If this negotiations will be successful we'll release driver with set of outputs free for some specific devices and 50-100 USD for other devices. We have a lot of positive responses now from companies, but agreements did not sign yet - good news is that outputs works good with that devices.

OK - now 1.09 - we did not make architectural changes - but we made a lot of internal improvement inside core of the driver to make it faster and solve some old bugs. Some new keys helped us easilly fix bugs in Spore (double interface) and WarHammer Online (slow or crash at start) - some people had a chance to try Spore in 3D during going nVision08.

We shift most of profile operation to Control Center - now you can change many parameters yourself - specifically autofocus speed and area of analysis (don't make it too big ) Simplification is a key of success - if we all want to make 3d mass market. Even more we need to think together how to make gamers world 3d - this is a biggest goal of our company nad we have some ideas, but your input would be very useful for us. I don't want to be toooo long and to finalize my speech I will say that I hope to increase our development team soon to cover all things we need to cover: DX10, command buffer, OpenGL, iZ3D MPC, CG support, 3d recording, SDK, ..... hmmm... may be it is better to make it open source

Just so long as those shutter glasses outputs work you will make a lot of people happy! Has been a loooong time coming...

[BlackQ]

Hi, holl5877!

"I'd like to know what those options in that drop-down list mean:
CF, CFL, Table CFL, Table, BW CFL, L&R CFL"


aaaaaaa we lost our secrets....

these are different working testing config for internal testing and ghosting battle
CF - front panel with Color Filter
CFL - front panel without color filter (Color Filter Less)
Table - table based calculation method (good for different algorithm modifications)
BW - black and white - experiments with colors
L&R - left and right outputs - experiments with some shutter ideas

[BlackQ]

Hi, wuhlei!

Yes, we added support of VR920, BUT we did not tested it - we have not this device in our lab - you have a chance to be first

[BlackQ]

Hi, BlackShark!

Here the list:

3D DLP – checkerboard for Samsung and Mitshubishi 3D DLP TV
Interlaced – for Zalman, Optroniq, Samsung 3D PDP and other micro polarizer
Shutter – Left and Right shuttering with frequency of output device
StereoMirror – for Planar 3D monitor
VR920 – for VR920 3D glasses (shutter with sync based on VR920 API)

plus two "old"
Anaglyph
HMD / Dual Projector

[Killigath]

Thanks for the info BlackQ. I'm one of the ones excited to try out the IZ3D drivers with my Samsung/Shutter Glasses setup.
I do have one question/dilema for you.

With the announcement of the new Viewsonic 3D ready monitor. I feel alot more gamers will get exposed and be willing to plunge into the 3D gaming world. In previous months, I had strongly considered buying an IZ3D monitor sometime in the next year. With the new announcement. I am now leaning more towards the Viewsonic, mainly because I've dealt with them for years and trust the brand. I know the 2 technologies are different, but this poses a real concern for future sales of IZ3D monitors.

Right now I believe IZ3D drivers are much better than the Nvidia or Tridef drivers (used by Viewsonic). Granted I need to test them out with shutter glasses to be sure, but from what I've read they are superior. I assume also that if the 1.09 drivers support shutter glasses, then the Viewsonic monitors will also be supported.

All that being said. Do you see IZ3D's future more in driver sales? Let "well known" companies make whatever 3D display they want and just support it. Or are the IZ3D brand monitors here to stay?

[BlackQ]

Hi, sharky!

"what can you tell us about the new glasses?"

We are doing re-measurement now to find best layers combination early September, if any. We made mistake before and spent another 4 weeks for re-measurement. If result will positive we will go to new prototype and then to internal and external test. IF negative we'll go further with some additional ideas.

"what does it mean for who already has an iz3d?"

Nothing except additional new pair of modified glasses

"what kind of developers can work with you or implement your output? (ex can home-hobbysts implement your output in theyr apps?)"

aha, you want open source too now - you can not add external modules / output to the driver yet. May be later when SDK will be released. But you can get our algorithm at any time to make your application compatible with iZ3D without driver

"if a hobbyst implements your drivers, is he automatically implmeenting also the other outputs or only iz3d?"

not possible atm

"what's the advantage for the applications that include your code?"

You may run your application inside environment did not supported our driver yet (Linux, Mac, full OpenGL etc)

"i read on a iz3d official statement that the new monitor will cost between 5000 and 6000 US$. isnt that much compared to the 22"?"

are you kidding????? who said that???? We have 26" in our roadmap as next mode, but no one even think about 5000 USD...

"are there other improvements other then the glasses and size?"

We want to make next model consoles compatible - thus we'll have more inputs for each type of consoles and some difference in electronics inside.

"what are your plans for teh opengl (not quadbuffered)?"

we'll define them in September when add some more developers to our team - now we have not enough resources to make full OpenGL support

"what hrdware (gpu / multiple gpu) would you reccomend for your monitor as best solution? (money aside)"

more power is better of course, but our main goal to be compatible with all GPUs which are on the market.

"do you know if unigine will release a techdemo of theyr aplication with your output too?"

I assume this is question for them, not for me... - but I think they will

"many complained about the blue led on the iz3d. did you remove it on the big one?"

we are thinking about replacement in next model - yes, we have this complains

"it has allways been impossible to advertise the tecnology for what it is because the modern massmedia units are all 2D. do you have some projects in mind to make people understand what it looks like when you play in true 3d? "

this is our pain - how to combine hardware nature of our product with 2d character of media and internet. We are going to increase offline presence soon, but spreading information about 3d is important too - need some inputs from your side.

[BlackQ]

Hi, again yuriythebest1!

To make 3d you can have three option

1. one camera in the center, another shifted to the left
2. one camera in the center, another shifted to the right
3. both are shifted to the left and right - this is symmetric separation
(crosshair in the game will be also left, right or centric oriented)

And what is separation scale?

This is the "step" of separation - when you'll try to increase /decrease it this parameters will define the speed of changes

Also what is the tab at the bottom of the first image that has a vertical thingy labeled "top" and also options for speed and height and another one that's blocked- is it advanced autocfocus?

This is all about autofocus control - there are three parameters: speed of auto-focus changes (how fast cameras react to your movement), and "area of analysis" in the center of the screen: you can manage size of this area

CG support: we are doing to things in parallel - some scripts for CG to create 3d easier and driver support - to support packages like 3ds max and Maya we need about 2-3 man/week - it is only question when to do it - hope to have update after September planning session (next two weeks roughly)

[BlackQ]

Hi, Likay!

Yes, we eliminate color disbalance, but ghosting improvement is not so big ath - we want to correct both before release new glasses for mass production

This is a good idea about blue light cult!

[BlackQ]

Hi, ceashure!

Yes, FRAPS is not stable with our driver - even we like this software This is related with injection order - who is the first..

Let's check with 1.09 and we may add some recording feature to our driver later.

[BlackQ]

Hi, chrisjarram!

1) Could you please clarify the sync issues you are havign and if you foresee problems with these drivers using eDimensionals shutter glasses. If so we may be able to help with this.

What we can do is to prepare left and right and shutter then through GPU. Then we have two issue - GPU may change left and right because of buffer reading operation may have different moment of start than shutter. And we need to inform external device that left or right frame is came. VR920 has special SDK to do it - we need to have something like that for other shutter devices - don't forget most of modern GPUs don't have additional output for sync

2) Have you tested these drivers on a Quad-sli (2 X 9800Gx2) rig yet, or do you foresee any problems with operating in this mode?

No - even with rumors that nVidia will enable second output in SLI configuration it is not done yet - anaglyph and other one output mode can work, but not iZ3D

[BlackQ]

Hi, Killigath!

No problem for us - we'd like to deal with Viewsonic as well. First we like to compete , second - it is too early to do it now My point is always simple: Let's convert gaming world into 3d and let gamers to decide which 3d is the best

[BlackQ]

Because no more visible questions atm let me make some break to return later today or tomorrow - I did not sleep this night I found nice movie "Absolute Power" with Stephen Fry - I like this actor after "Jeeves and Wooster" so much
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_Power_(comedy) - such a real thing

Cu guys later!

[yuriythebest]

wow a very interesting read, thank you BlackQ

[chrisjarram]

Hi, chrisjarram!

1) Could you please clarify the sync issues you are havign and if you foresee problems with these drivers using eDimensionals shutter glasses. If so we may be able to help with this.

What we can do is to prepare left and right and shutter then through GPU. Then we have two issue - GPU may change left and right because of buffer reading operation may have different moment of start than shutter. And we need to inform external device that left or right frame is came. VR920 has special SDK to do it - we need to have something like that for other shutter devices - don't forget most of modern GPUs don't have additional output for sync

So how are Nvidia doing this with their stereo driver? Their driver works with eDims so this is obviously possible... Just trying to understand what the real problem is here, thanks.

[BlackShark]

Hi, sharky!
We want to make next model consoles compatible - thus we'll have more inputs for each type of consoles and some difference in electronics inside.

Now that makes me even more interested in that screen !!!

Does this mean that the screen will also feature interlaced input ? (for games and future S-3D tv broadcasts, which will very probably be interlaced)
How do you connect a console to the screen, will the screen handle single HDMI or DVI (through adapter) or YUV input for interlaced 3D (or simply 2D : no need anymore for 2 DVI inputs for displaying a 2D image).
Does the screen has good quality upscaling features (i mean do i have to connect a PS3 or X360 or can i also get a good image with a Wii ? in 2D)

When will you make your own TV ? (ok that's maybe for much much later)

[chrisjarram]

Another probably more obvious question:-

In the tests you have done in your lab, what is the absolute fastest chipset for using with your drivers atm? (e.g. 9800gx2 in multi-gpu mode, or maybe the 200 series?).

Thanks

[Killigath]

Hi, sharky!
We want to make next model consoles compatible - thus we'll have more inputs for each type of consoles and some difference in electronics inside.

Now that makes me even more interested in that screen !!!

Does this mean that the screen will also feature interlaced input ? (for games and future S-3D tv broadcasts, which will very probably be interlaced)
How do you connect a console to the screen, will the screen handle single HDMI or DVI (through adapter) or YUV input for interlaced 3D (or simply 2D : no need anymore for 2 DVI inputs for displaying a 2D image).
Does the screen has good quality upscaling features (i mean do i have to connect a PS3 or X360 or can i also get a good image with a Wii ? in 2D)

When will you make your own TV ? (ok that's maybe for much much later)

NICE!!! I totally missed that statement when I read thru the first time.
Will the screen itself do the 3D conversion from the console or will the console need to have a firmware update?
I guess what we all want to know is how do you propose to get this working.

[BlackShark]

Will the screen itself do the 3D conversion from the console or will the console need to have a firmware update?

IZ3D monitors are just displays they don't make 2D to 3D conversions.
Consoles have to generate the two images and i think that for consoles it requires each game developper to patch their games. (firmwares aren't enough)

[yuriythebest]

now iZ3D can be second monitor (but need to be connected to one GPU). Clipping removed (when render make black stripe on the side of images).

hi! by that do you mean viewport clipping like in the image below (exaggerated using photoshop ):




if so this is amazing news and I didn't even expect this till 2.0

[BlackShark]

"it has allways been impossible to advertise the tecnology for what it is because the modern massmedia units are all 2D. do you have some projects in mind to make people understand what it looks like when you play in true 3d? "

this is our pain - how to combine hardware nature of our product with 2d character of media and internet. We are going to increase offline presence soon, but spreading information about 3d is important too - need some inputs from your side.

Well first you need to get rid of the old myth which spreads on all news comments and which says that S-3D = either headache or vomit, which is there since many people misused shutterglasses on old low refresh rate CRT monitors and reported constant headaches (which is normal when you don't read the minimal configuration on the box).

Then educate the S-3D users that pop-out is very difficult to view on a small monitor and that newcomers to S-3D should not try to use pop-out straight away. Or these newcomers will get headaches and give false feedback on good products if used correctly.

And finally tell the world that your driver works great. Go show your screen at more and more shows, especially video game shows.
For example on the french website i often read ( www.clubic.com ) they went to E3, GamesConvention in Leipzig, and just went to the Nvision convention. But not siggraph.
So they reported on the nvidia 3D and nvidia 3D monitors 3 times, and none on yours.
In fact when i searched for iz3d on their site, the only time they mentionned your screen was when you announced the 22" monitor at CES two years ago...

An other reference website for screen reviews is the joint tests from Hardware.fr/LesNumériques.com These guys put up the reference tests for screens in france, their reviews are the most complete i found on the web. These guys built the Samsung 226BW fame and they also completely demolished it's reputation in France when they found out about about the multiple series
For EVERY screen, they MEASURE and publish :
-Screen reactivity through 1/1000th of a second photographs
-colour fidelity and colour range with a high precision calibration
-viewing angles
And they recently added :
-true contrasts
-frame display delay (measured by displaying the time on the screen and comparing photographs with a reference CRT on clone mode)
-power consumption
-simulated representation of colour fidelity with gray levels.
-and for some monitors they also test the backlight homogenity

These guys can make a reputation or put shame on your monitor if they test it.
Unfortunately, they don't have any measured tests for S-3D yet because the only 3d screen they tested was Zalmann's. But if S-3D gets more and more popular and that they can test different monitors, these guys will find the new reference tests for 3D monitors, and they'll probably have a special attention to ghosting.
See their reviews here :
french (original site) : http://www.lesnumeriques.com/article-240.html
english version : http://www.digitalversus.com/article-357.html
for each screen, see the face-to-face images to see how screens show during the tests.
(on the french page, there are many many more monitors reviewed)
Zalmann review http://www.digitalversus.com/article-358-3459-310.html

If you think your monitor meets their expectations, send them a review copy of your monitor and you'll get a very trusted review in france, but be careful because if the monitor doesn't also meets their 2D expectations, since it's 2x the price of an equivalent size 2D monitor it will get slashed and they'll say "only for 3D enthusiasts, not for normal people, try again next time".
At least Franch 3d enthusiasts will know about your monitor but non-3d-enthusiasts won't even try it.

[yuriythebest]

"only for 3D enthusiasts, not for normal people, try again next time".
At least Franch 3d enthusiasts will know about your monitor but non-3d-enthusiasts won't even try it.

I find that classifying monitors this way based upon some obscure set of tests is very weird. Of course they haven't reviewed it yet but I find that this monitor is quite suitable for all non-3d activities like text and watching movies, especially HD widescreen and doing computer graphics and stuff. The only downside for me is that since I only have one video card I can't attach any more of my 2d screens, however that's a problem of my rig, not of the iz3d. Hope they take time to "get to know it", and write a decent review.

[BlackShark]

"only for 3D enthusiasts, not for normal people, try again next time".
At least Franch 3d enthusiasts will know about your monitor but non-3d-enthusiasts won't even try it.

I find that classifying monitors this way based upon some obscure set of tests is very weird. Of course they haven't reviewed it yet but I find that this monitor is quite suitable for all non-3d activities like text and watching movies, especially HD widescreen and doing computer graphics and stuff. The only downside for me is that since I only have one video card I can't attach any more of my 2d screens, however that's a problem of my rig, not of the iz3d. Hope they take time to "get to know it", and write a decent review.

They didn't really said that, but that's what i understand whe i read their review and see the results of their tests.
The tests they perform are the harshests i've seen on the internet and the Zalman screen got a good overall review but that's just because it's the 1st 3D screen they know about and have tested. They say they have big hopes for better 3D monitors and would love to see more but at the same time thay have to be fair and loyal to their principles, and their readers.

3D monitors are worth twice as much as regular monitors, and i'm expecting the same for IZ3D's 26". Vadim hasn't announced any price but i'm expecting it to be in the 1000~1200€ range. But that won't be really known until the final specs for the screen are finalized.
Anyway, for us, 3D is invaluable, but normal people can't justify spending twice the price of a screen if they don't use the 3D feature.
Especially with the current IZ3D 22". In fact, i believe that if they had reviewed the 22" model it would have had a less good review than Zalmann's.
Not having a 2ms response time isn't good for hardcore gamers : both screen suffer from this.
But having to use both outputs is a big disadvantage for IZ3D.

I also believe that they could have tested the IZ3D monitor if they really wanted to, but the IZ3D monitor is so 3D-oriented that it's not ready to fight against regular monitors.

What i mean is that 3D monitors is a niche market. Fighting against other 3D monitors and bringing better 3D solution would probably increase the market a little but it would still be niche.
If you want to conquer the main consumer market, you should fight 2D monitors on their own ground, and for gamers, it's :
-#1 reactivity : anything announcing something above 2ms doesn't even exist
-#2 price
-#3 colour stuff (contrast, colour fidelity, etc...)
-#4 the rest

And, no 3D monitor can even pretend to enter this category yet, except the viewsonic 120Hz prototype.
If you want to reach non-3D users, you have to have the best 2D monitor and at the same time have the best 3D experience. Otherwise you'll only target a niche market, expanding very slowly.

[yuriythebest]

"only for 3D enthusiasts, not for normal people, try again next time".
At least Franch 3d enthusiasts will know about your monitor but non-3d-enthusiasts won't even try it.

I find that classifying monitors this way based upon some obscure set of tests is very weird. Of course they haven't reviewed it yet but I find that this monitor is quite suitable for all non-3d activities like text and watching movies, especially HD widescreen and doing computer graphics and stuff. The only downside for me is that since I only have one video card I can't attach any more of my 2d screens, however that's a problem of my rig, not of the iz3d. Hope they take time to "get to know it", and write a decent review.

They didn't really said that, but that's what i understand whe i read their review and see the results of their tests.
The tests they perform are the harshests i've seen on the internet and the Zalman screen got a good overall review but that's just because it's the 1st 3D screen they know about and have tested. They say they have big hopes for better 3D monitors and would love to see more but at the same time thay have to be fair and loyal to their principles, and their readers.

3D monitors are worth twice as much as regular monitors, and i'm expecting the same for IZ3D's 26". Vadim hasn't announced any price but i'm expecting it to be in the 1000~1200€ range. But that won't be really known until the final specs for the screen are finalized.
Anyway, for us, 3D is invaluable, but normal people can't justify spending twice the price of a screen if they don't use the 3D feature.
Especially with the current IZ3D 22". In fact, i believe that if they had reviewed the 22" model it would have had a less good review than Zalmann's.
Not having a 2ms response time isn't good for hardcore gamers : both screen suffer from this.
But having to use both outputs is a big disadvantage for IZ3D.

I also believe that they could have tested the IZ3D monitor if they really wanted to, but the IZ3D monitor is so 3D-oriented that it's not ready to fight against regular monitors.

What i mean is that 3D monitors is a niche market. Fighting against other 3D monitors and bringing better 3D solution would probably increase the market a little but it would still be niche.
If you want to conquer the main consumer market, you should fight 2D monitors on their own ground, and for gamers, it's :
-#1 reactivity : anything announcing something above 2ms doesn't even exist
-#2 price
-#3 colour stuff (contrast, colour fidelity, etc...)
-#4 the rest

And, no 3D monitor can even pretend to enter this category yet, except the viewsonic 120Hz prototype.
If you want to reach non-3D users, you have to have the best 2D monitor and at the same time have the best 3D experience. Otherwise you'll only target a niche market.

yup I'm not saying they did so yet, and I agree with you completly. In any case I think it's overall unfair to compare the tech specs on 3d and 2d monitors- at least for now.

[Likay]

BlackQ: Thanks for taking your time. Looking forward to the 1.09, new glasses and what you'll bring in the future.

cheers

[BlackQ]

Hi, chrisjarram!

nVidia can interrupt rendering process - we can not. We can try to create additional pair of buffers, but it will be fps problem then

we tested nV GTX280 and ATI 4870

[BlackQ]

Hi, BlackShark!

"Does this mean that the screen will also feature interlaced input ? (for games and future S-3D tv broadcasts, which will very probably be interlaced)"

Yes, you are right

"How do you connect a console to the screen, will the screen handle single HDMI or DVI (through adapter) or YUV input for interlaced 3D (or simply 2D : no need anymore for 2 DVI inputs for displaying a 2D image)."

I don't remember the whole list of inputs, but it would be all for XBox 360, PS3 and Wii

"Does the screen has good quality upscaling features (i mean do i have to connect a PS3 or X360 or can i also get a good image with a Wii ? in 2D)"

with initial prototype Wii quality was good - everybody liked it

"When will you make your own TV ? (ok that's maybe for much much later)"

in our road map we are thinking about 2010, but we may try speed up in case of good funding

[BlackQ]

Hi, Killigath!

Yes, monitor will make left / right to back / front conversion inside. But console will generate left and right - I can not disclose final format yet, but we hope to make it through SDK release.

For old game re-compilation I assume would be necessary.

[BlackQ]

Hi, yuriythebest1!

Yes, it is exactly clipping we are talking about - it is corrected now


guys, I'll continue later - running between meetings...

[BlackShark]

Damn you BlackQ !!!
The more you talk the less i can stand waiting for that magic monitor to come out !

I wish we were spring-09 already...

[chrisjarram]

Hi, chrisjarram!

nVidia can interrupt rendering process - we can not. We can try to create additional pair of buffers, but it will be fps problem then

we tested nV GTX280 and ATI 4870

Hmm.. ok. I'm hoping maybe ED-Activator will be enough - as I understand it the ED glasses work simply on the vertical sync signal, also the ED-Activator provides the option to switch L-R and I have a hardware dongle which does it too.

Any perticluar reason you can't inerrupt the rendering process? Sounds like a pretty critical issue to me

Thanks BlackQ

[yuriythebest]

Hi, chrisjarram!

nVidia can interrupt rendering process - we can not. We can try to create additional pair of buffers, but it will be fps problem then

we tested nV GTX280 and ATI 4870

Hmm.. ok. I'm hoping maybe ED-Activator will be enough - as I understand it the ED glasses work simply on the vertical sync signal, also the ED-Activator provides the option to switch L-R and I have a hardware dongle which does it too.

Any perticluar reason you can't inerrupt the rendering process? Sounds like a pretty critical issue to me

Thanks BlackQ

the ED activator just makes the screen go into interlace mode- it doesn't actually have anything to do with directx/opengl - it just makes interlaced pics visible

Nvidia obviously has more control since it's their video cards and they have all the code for the nvidia forceware which is of course close source.

[yomer]

Hi, BlackShark!

"Does this mean that the screen will also feature interlaced input ? (for games and future S-3D tv broadcasts, which will very probably be interlaced)"

Yes, you are right

"How do you connect a console to the screen, will the screen handle single HDMI or DVI (through adapter) or YUV input for interlaced 3D (or simply 2D : no need anymore for 2 DVI inputs for displaying a 2D image)."

I don't remember the whole list of inputs, but it would be all for XBox 360, PS3 and Wii

"Does the screen has good quality upscaling features (i mean do i have to connect a PS3 or X360 or can i also get a good image with a Wii ? in 2D)"

with initial prototype Wii quality was good - everybody liked it

"When will you make your own TV ? (ok that's maybe for much much later)"

in our road map we are thinking about 2010, but we may try speed up in case of good funding

Are you saying that you have tested Wii in S3D? Or just connected the Wii to test the upscaling?

Can you give us all the details possible on how do you plan to get 3D out of consoles, or more importantly if you have already gotten some 3D from any... what do you know that we don't?

[yuriythebest]

Hi, yuriythebest1!

Yes, it is exactly clipping we are talking about - it is corrected now


guys, I'll continue later - running between meetings...

wow this is an amazing breakthrough. As far as I know even nvidia hasn't fixed this yet (at least in the old driver). Kudos on the spore fix and also on this

[chrisdfw]

Hi, chrisjarram!

nVidia can interrupt rendering process - we can not. We can try to create additional pair of buffers, but it will be fps problem then

we tested nV GTX280 and ATI 4870

BlackQ, could you perhaps provide examples of what video cards and 3d displays will and won't work with shutter glasses or any workarounds that could be used? I am having trouble figuring out what hardware I will need and what games I can play using shutter glasses on your new drivers.

For example, I have E-dimensional shutter glasses and a DLP projector. I have a computer with an Nvidia 7900GT and another with an 8800GT. Using old Nvidia 3d drivers on my 7900GT I had to reverse the left/right images but it synched with shutter glasses fine other than that. What will I be able to do with your drivers and which of my equipment will work? Does your driver synch problem have to do with the old 15 pin VGA connector having a synch but newer DVI don't even with a DVI to VGA adapter? I believe my 7900GT card has DVI outputs and I am using a DVI/VGA adapter to hook my projector's 15pin old style vga cable to it.

Thank you for all your help!

[BlackShark]

Are you saying that you have tested Wii in S3D? Or just connected the Wii to test the upscaling?

He was just talking about upscaling.

Can you give us all the details possible on how do you plan to get 3D out of consoles, or more importantly if you have already gotten some 3D from any... what do you know that we don't?

There are no console games with 3D output at the moment and consoles aren't designed for S-3D so game developpers have to make a native S-3D game. I think Ubisoft announced that the game based on James Cameron's AVATAR will have a S-3D feature.
The iZ3D team probably phoned them to ask how they were going to have S-3D output so that they can support it. And there is already a 99% chance it's interlaced S-3D for obvious technical reasons :
consoles have only 1 video output, and have limited power which developper already need to make the game look good in 2D so, since interlacing reduces resolution (saves a little power) it's the most obvious way to go.

---> New question to BlackQ :

I prefer non-glossy screen surfaces to glossy ones.
Have you decided if you will be implementing a glossy filter on the monitor yet ? Or is it too early and you haven't decided yet ?

[ssiu]

Question to BlackQ -- it seems to me that IZ3D monitors have an inherent cost disadvantage due to the technology, i.e. needing 2 LCD panels. All other competitior monitor solutions seem less costly (e.g. Zalman -- embedding thin film at front of panel, Viewsonic/DLP HDTV/Plasma HDTV -- just taking advantage of a faster panel). Would you agree? And if true, how does IZ3D plan to stay competitive?

[BlackQ]

Hi, BlackShark!

I understand your point about 2d and 3d monitor, but let me give you two sample I'm trying to use in our marketing strategy:

1. Cars: Folkswagen and Volvo - both are mass, but Volvo is more expensive, but people are ready to pay, because it is about "safety" even both are safe enough....

2. LCD versus CRT - LCD was bad long period of time, even it because mass market (in term of response time, colors, white temperature), where is CRT....

I'm not competitive gamer and I can not separate all 16 mln colors - why do I need 2ms not 5ms and ideal color gamut losing nice 3d effect?

just ideas ...

BTW, any new model is 8-9 months... it is reality of display industry - nothing can speed up this process...

Anti-reflection (AR) coating can be added for some cost (and brightness), but this is not common now in industry - many monitors have not AR - we'll make customer research about this issue I think