Meant to be Seen

Any of you bright people know how difficult it would be to drop this screen into the Dev kit?

http://reviews.cnet.com/google-nexus-7/

Edited Subject as requested by Kernel32.

The issue is finding a driver board so that it can accept HDMI 1.3

I don't yet know how difficult it will be but I have been waiting since before I got my Rift for a 7" 16:10 hi res display to become available. I would buy a Nexus 7.2 just to rip the screen out and use it for the Rift! Geekmaster... Where are you!? I need your input on this topic! I can't wait for this mod to be performed. As soon as there is a proper method for the swap then I am in.

KingK76 wrote:Geekmaster... Where are you!? I need your input on this topic!

I PMed with another member who successfully swapped in a different 1280x800 panel after he broke his original. He ended up using a different LCD controller though (not the Rift controller). I requested that he post a step-by-step guide to screen replacement for 2nd-party Rift owners (eBay purchasers). He said he will...

For this 1920x1200 panel you may also need a different controller than the Rift uses...

You could always hang an i2c chip on it with a copy of the Rift EDID info if you need to, as mentioned was successfully done in another thread.

geekmaster wrote:

KingK76 wrote:Geekmaster... Where are you!? I need your input on this topic!

I PMed with another member who successfully swapped in a different 1280x800 panel after he broke his original. He ended up using a different LCD controller though (not the Rift controller). I requested that he post a step-by-step guide to screen replacement for 2nd-party Rift owners (eBay purchasers). He said he will...

For this 1920x1200 panel you may also need a different controller than the Rift uses...

You could always hang an i2c chip on it with a copy of the Rift EDID info if you need to, as mentioned was successfully done in another thread.

What's the Rift EDID used for ? It would be nice if it was used for identifying the display and launching apps on it; but that doesn't appear to happen! (at least not with me)

Also my rift was working just fine via a crap DVI splitter when I first got it (prior to me getting a working mDP>DVI adapter) which was unable to pass through EDID info and it just appeared as PNP Monitor....

The EDID is probably just used to report the display to the OS. Cyber said on the Dev forum that the controlbox stores info to adjust settings(display dimensions, resolution, lens info like lens-to-lens distance, shape) for stereo and warp. It's possible it could be stored on the tracker though, but the controlbox's PCB does have a 256 KB serial flash.

zacherynuk wrote:What's the Rift EDID used for ? It would be nice if it was used for identifying the display and launching apps on it; but that doesn't appear to happen! (at least not with me)

Here an EDID dump from my Rift, showing what it contains:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 91#p117182

It does identify the Rift, and much more. However, some video splitters do not pass the correct EDID information through, depending on what order devices are plugged into them.

Even if the new Nexus7 used an LVDS interface like the panel in the rift, it would need at least additional channels meaning a different cable from control box to the HMD, likely a custom board that sits between the cable and the panel's ribbon connector (check the ifixit teardown), and even possibly the control box board if they didn't break out all the LVDS channels.

If the panel has a MIPI interface, then all those things I mentioned above need to be changed. As far as I know, there's no ready to go solutions for DVI/HDMI -> MIPI-DSI interface boards.

Lastly, similar to the last Nexus7, the new one probably has its panel fused to the front glass, which would make extracting it difficult if not impossible, and with the front glass still attached it would not fit in the rift

I broke the front glass on my Nexus 7. The LCD still works but the touchscreen is toast. The corner glass shattered off, leaving a rubbery adhesive behind that feels a lot like hotmelt glue. Considering that this same hotmelt adhesive is also used in sheets (EVA film) for bonding solar cells to glass to protect them from the elements and that it is optically clear enough for that purpose, it may also be what is used to bond the front glass on a tablet panel. Heat should soften that adhesive, if that is what it is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqHclYEEj50

MSat wrote:Even if the new Nexus7 used an LVDS interface like the panel in the rift, it would need at least additional channels meaning a different cable from control box to the HMD, likely a custom board that sits between the cable and the panel's ribbon connector (check the ifixit teardown), and even possibly the control box board if they didn't break out all the LVDS channels.

Single link DVI can do WUXGA easily enough.
Looking at the 1080p prototype - that's got two cables going into the headset; likely old one for sensor and new one for alternative panel...

For LVDS going from 1280x800 to 1920x1200 would require more signal data pairs(1 channel, 8-bit's 4 pairs vs 2 channel 8-bit's 8 pairs) for the cable from the controlbox to the headset. If not already there(I doubt they are) you would need a new custom cable. If they are there(unlikely) you would need a new connector/adapter and pinout.

If people are considering going trough the trouble of getting this screen to work with the Oculus. Why not go the extra mile and get one of these instead?

http://www.ortustech.co.jp/english/news/20121023.html

It's not even that new... And it would be the best application for 4k, PERIOD. At least until we can get 8k for each eye anyway =P

Kamus wrote:If people are considering going trough the trouble of getting this screen to work with the Oculus. Why not go the extra mile and get one of these instead?

http://www.ortustech.co.jp/english/news/20121023.html

It's not even that new... And it would be the best application for 4k, PERIOD. At least until we can get 8k for each eye anyway =P

Well, for a start, it's a 10 inch display, which is way too big for our needs - you would be wasting a huge percentage of the screen. There's no point having a 4k panel and only using half of it.

TheHolyChicken wrote: Well, for a start, it's a 10 inch display, which is way too big for our needs - you would be wasting a huge percentage of the screen. There's no point having a 4k panel and only using half of it.

Oh, i realize the silliness of the whole thing. I just thought it would be fun to point out that 4k is already here for small screens. My only concern is that manufacturers might not see the point in making smaller 4k panels at all, since with the naked eye the benefit would be almost never visibly noticeable, since the screens are made for devices you look at with the naked eye.
That said, It's nice to know that technology is ready for 4k right now, and now all they need is a reason to mass produce one...

But going back to my silly suggestion. I guess you could have a new housing for the screen designed and then have it 3D printed because holodeck.
You would look even more ridiculous than the rift already makes you look. But if you are brave enough already to wear the rift and not care about how silly other people think you look, It shouldn't be a problem. =)

Anyway, I know this is a stretch even for the most hard core modders out there. But you never know, maybe there is someone out there that is just crazy enough to try it.

For anyone brave enough to try a swap, these are aparently in stock at amazon now:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00DVFLJK ... mdp_mobile

I just bought one and am driving up to pick it up soon. (they are in stock at bestbuy)

I'll try and take the optics and see how it looks today. I don't know exactly how far away from the screen the optics sit, but hopefully I can figure that out without much trouble (and scratching my lcd in the rift)

Lilwolf wrote:I just bought one and am driving up to pick it up soon. (they are in stock at bestbuy)

I'll try and take the optics and see how it looks today. I don't know exactly how far away from the screen the optics sit, but hopefully I can figure that out without much trouble (and scratching my lcd in the rift)

OMG! wow. Not expected here until september! Unless Play store gets them in online...

It's in hand now. Just doing the initial setup. Unfortunately, bad day at work for me to have a new toy. Hopefully I can play with the optics tonight.

I can't wait to see the results from the display tonight. You blazing the trail for us, thank you!

split that puppy open and check that panel connectivity....

Have anyone found replacement screens for the new Nexus 7 yet?

Ziggurat wrote:Have anyone found replacement screens for the new Nexus 7 yet?

No, nothing yet.

Ok, I have to get a better way to take pictures.

The screen is beautiful in your hands! Great angles and color depth.

When I added the B lenses, it was much better... BUT... you could still see the screen door. But I think it was because the lenses were closer to the screen then in the rift.

So there are a lot more dots, but there is also some black in there also.

When looked at the rift, it seems like maybe 10%-20% is black line. Rest is the color/pixels
With the nexus7.2, maybe 5-10% is black line... but they are all much much smaller.

But I am DEFINITELY not comparing apples to apples. I'm holding the lenses to the nexus by hand. I'm trying to keep them at the same distance, but to get into focus, it bring it a bit closer. My eye can get a bit closer also.

I need to consider a good test for it and see.

One more thing. The graphic card on the tablet is pretty amazing. There is a chance, that if someone wrote a driver for the head tracker for java/android.... You could just pop the nexus on the back and have a pretty sweet wireless head tracker!

The 2-inch 5x lenses from the DIY Rift thread would probably work MUCH better on that larger screen.

Perhaps even 4x lenses, for even more usable pixels?

The 50mm 5x aspheric lenses would work much better than the Rift lenses for the 7" if you grind them down so they are about 38mm diameter I think. Less warping, less screendoor, and increased clarity across the diameter of the lens. Anyone wanna try it out?

You'd need the lenses further away from the screen in new 3d printed eyecups, and a custom pre-warp shader too.

Inscothen wrote:The 50mm 5x aspheric lenses would work much better than the Rift lenses for the 7" if you grind them down so they are about 38mm diameter I think. Less warping, less screendoor, and increased clarity across the diameter of the lens. Anyone wanna try it out?

You'd need the lenses further away from the screen in new 3d printed eyecups, and a custom pre-warp shader too.

Only need to grind relief for nose and eyebrows. No need to be round. More FoV if larger. If looking through lens optical axis, existing pre-warp does not look bad.

I meant to have the new lens fill the same amount of FOV of your eye as the Rift lens to simplify a Rift 7" 1080p mod. Doing it that way would still yield a higher number of pixels per degree than the Rift lens.

If using the 50mm lens with only relief cut the FOV will increase FOV a good deal which I'm going to do on a new DIY Rift type HMD(Using 8" 2.08:1 1600x768 panel and Chalk-Elec HDMI-LVDS bridge) as soon as I get some more parts.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/26/seco ... he-ifixit/

We're sure glad there's iFixit to take apart new gadgets so we don't have to, and it comes as no surprise that the next-gen Nexus 7 is one of its latest experiments. If you've read our hands-on with the device, you won't be surprised by much of what the folks at iFixit saw while tearing it down. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the new version has huge improvements when it comes to repairability. Its huge battery is glued to an adhesive tray, and like its predecessor, its display seems to be the biggest problem -- you'll need a heat gun to get it out. Still, iFixit gives it a score of 7 out of 10, because all they needed to pry it open was a plastic tool.

It's a pity it's not a straight forward drop-in... Here is a review by AnandTech. Looks like it is quite an improvement in nearly all areas.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7176/nexu ... i-review/2

Pardon my ignorance of direct and personal handling of the most modern devices...but I don't see MIPI connectivity in there, anywhere.

I see what looks like, to my eyes, As the touch panel controller/interface cable...and LVDS.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nexus+7+ ... wn/16072/2

I speculated early on, when they talked about the potential for the introduction of an updated unit, with 1080P, that they might 'go with what they know' to be sure to not slow the development. As it is not really one cent more to go either way.

If a company (Asustek) has not built (extensively) with MIPI before, and is familiar with a working LVDS connectivity system that they know works, and have experience with working in an environment that is an ensured and known success, as opposed to introducing a unknown of any kind...well..'manufacturing rules' (the roadmap to success), right on the first page say "go with what you know, we don't need even the potential for any issues, period."

So the trend may be toward MIPI, but... don't screw with what works, for the given model until the changeover is inevitable and you have the TIME to dick with the potential for issues to arise. That is how a manufacturer would see it. They have no choice, the logic and experience says it is inevitable to do things that way, with that in mind. Which is why I thought that there was potential for it to be LVDS connectivity on the HD panel.

I still don't know if this is true, in this case, but it looks promising.

(the relevant photo):

http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/ig ... mfRAZ.huge

That orange flat cable could be either LVDS or MIPI. MIPI cables must be kept under 30cm.

The panel is more likely LVDS than MIPI, but we need more info no matter which interface it uses.

So happy this is finally getting some steam!

So it is LVDS huh? And the rift uses MIPI?

What would the steps need to be in order to make this a drop in replacement?

Like LVDS to MIPI

Controller board

ect.

Just curious so I can get a better grasp on the info.

The devkit uses LVDS.

If the cable from the controlbox is 1 channel 8-bit LVDS then you need a cable that has 2 channel 8-bit LVDS. Then you may need to reprogram the LCD scaler in the controlbox. You might need to change the stored display parameters on the tracker(or in the controlbox) for the increased resolution. That is if the new 7" LCD is LVDS(it probably is).

I have never seen a flat mipi, they have always been weird snap things ...

but by the look of the photo life bodes well... It will bode even better when we can find the actual spec sheet - which should happen when repair centres get their stock...

MIPI cables and connectors are designed for the intended product.

like the Galaxy S4 might be MIPI(according to some source code for the exynos chip) and here is a test cable:
http://www.etradesupply.com/samsung-gal ... ibbon.html

Inscothen wrote:The devkit uses LVDS.

If the cable from the controlbox is 1 channel 8-bit LVDS then you need a cable that has 2 channel 8-bit LVDS. Then you may need to reprogram the LCD scaler in the controlbox. You might need to change the stored display parameters on the tracker(or in the controlbox) for the increased resolution. That is if the new 7" LCD is LVDS(it probably is).

So your saying its possible it will just take supplies, (know how) and time?

The second someone makes a write up for this.. Ill be the happiest guy around.

Yes, it's entirely possible so long as we have a datasheet or some more specific info like connector pinout and some other info. It may take more obviously but it's probable we can get it done if trying long enough.

Inscothen wrote:Yes, it's entirely possible so long as we have a datasheet or some more specific info like connector pinout and some other info. It may take more obviously but it's probable we can get it done if trying long enough.

Then lets plow the road boys...! Lets get this done before the consumer rift launches we can finally have that 1080p goodness we've been waiting for 1080P VR gaming before anyone else. Think about it.

I've been trying to get a HiRes Rift mod/DIY started since June and others have been trying for longer. The only thing that has held us back is a HDMI-MIPI cicuit and that's almost done according to OzOnE2k10. With a smaller 1080p panel you'd get around 3-3.5x the amount of pixels as the devkit like the 1080p Rift prototype gives.

With this panel probably being LVDS you may have a solution soon enough, but for me I'm waiting on the MIPI cicuit so I can get more pixels than the 7" panels 2.25x amount(unless you change the lenses, then you'd get more), so good luck. I'll try to help if I can though.

Let's start using WUXGA eh guys ? We've moved on from 1080x now