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Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:43 pm
by Vamplifire
Dan_Sixense wrote:Still no news on when we releasing Tuscany public yet, we're really busy the next couple weeks :/.
However I did get the okay to talk about a little experiment we did rendering video to cube maps. We basically made a virtual Imax theater where you can run any video through it you want, that's where we ran a first person perspective render of a roller coaster ride, it was really cool. Obviously to prevent stretching the video too much we couldnt cover more than like 130 degrees of your view, so the video edge would be visible if you looked hard left or right, still amazing experience.
I bet I can talk one of our software guys into releasing this demo when we get some down time
.
how does this video experience relate to the hydra? You could incorporate a virtual popcorn game
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:35 pm
by nateight
Dan, great to see some Sixense people on MTBS, welcome. Be honest with me now - how excited are you guys over what's been happening in the past couple of months? The Hydra was apparently first released in 2008, and I'm willing to bet that's about how many worldwide sales you had up until recently. It's an interesting technology, sure, but as a peripheral competing with mice and Xbox gamepads, when the output device was always and only ever a 2D monitor, the relative merits of a Hydra don't jump right out at you. Now, though, 10,000+ developers and early adopters are on the verge of having a great home HMD, looking at their mice and gamepads, and suddenly realizing, "Oh damn, that just won't do anymore, will it?" There are plenty more such people in the making, too. I just had a friend of mine over, sat him down with my Hydra, Portal 2, and 2D monitor, and (being the hard-bitten cynic he is) he said essentially, "This is cool and all, but can I just use the mouse, please?" When I explained the FPS game I want to make with the Hydra, however, a concept that is not merely enhanced by the Hydra but dependent upon it, he was floored; I may have even found myself a level designer.
You Sixense guys created the perfect device to compliment an HMD, and toughed out five long years of such an HMD not existing; your ingenuity was almost too far ahead of its time, but you managed to stay positive through the slumps, support the tech, and pump out stuff like this excellent demo. I couldn't be happier for your long-overdue success, and I might be your hand controller competitor in a few months! Take a victory lap, please, and tell us - how does it (finally) feel?
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:39 pm
by Namielus
Dan_Sixense I do all that in my virtual cinema too, and will support hydra for interactive presentations and lessons.
But I wrote about that in the email I sent.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:54 pm
by JMX
Dan, thank you and Sixense for making the awesome demo!
I was going to order a Hydra at the Razer store but they just sold out of everything they had a few days ago, so I went and found one locally today. I guess I'll have to get a Unity Pro licence now to play with it though.
A character with IK arms that can climb walls will be the first thing I try to make, haha.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:32 pm
by Mystify
Regarding the chance of people turning 360 in VR:
I can believe that. absent of any motivation to spin, people tend to straighten themselves.
But if you are dealing with rich VR environments, I see it as inevitable that you will twist yourself.
Imagine a scenario where you are walking down a school hallway. There is a door to the right. You turn right and enter.
The blackboard is to your right. You turn to face it, and read what is written on it.
You now want to leave the room. The door is to your right, so you turn right and leave.
Upon entering the hallway, you turn right and continue how you were going.
Thats a full 360 rotation that would naturally occur from interacting with the environment. There are countless things that could prompt this.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:33 pm
by Dan_Sixense
The Hydra is definitely enjoying increased popularity due to it's synergy with VR.
The 50% off sale Razer has going is on till the 28th and they still have them in stock last I checked.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:02 pm
by V8Griff
Dan_Sixense wrote:The Hydra is definitely enjoying increased popularity due to it's synergy with VR.
The 50% off sale Razer has going is on till the 28th and they still have them in stock last I checked.
On backorder in Europe though....
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:07 pm
by nateight
Mystify wrote:Thats a full 360 rotation that would naturally occur from interacting with the environment. There are countless things that could prompt this.
This is a point that bears repeating. Follow along and check my work, please: The Rift and the Hydra are going to be wired for the foreseeable future - maybe we improve everything else that needs improving and get it all wireless in time for the Rift 3.0 in 2016,
maybe, but even that seems ambitious. Your point about constant turning means that in the meantime we either A) construct some sort of crazy ceiling mount that holds your various cables in a way that won't see you getting strangled to death or B) your ass is
sitting down for this in any kind of home gameplay environment (and no goddamned swivel chairs, either). This makes marker-based positional tracking considerably easier and only runs the risk of "VRm" rather than also inflicting "VR-leg". I want to believe foot controllers or thumbsticks can control avatar rotation, but early reports indicate this is horrible; keyhole-turning of the sort in several TF2 VR modes may be easier on everyone's stomachs, and if this is the only way average non-VR nerds can tolerate it for more than 20 seconds, head-based keyhole turning will win, period. This means we can use a Wii Balance Board or even (God help us) a Stinkyboard for moving and strafing (the analog of the former being greatly superior, but many older hacked games will only have digitial WASD movement anyway), or indeed map this to a thumbstick.
Extensive testing is warranted, naturally, but did we just plot a course for the first "winning" VR input scheme? Head tracking does mouselook and turns your avatar outside a configurable keyhole, something like a Hydra/PS Move wands/Wiimotes/[Secret-nateight-glove-thing] provides completely independent weapon or hand motion, moving and strafing is a foot joystick or a thumbstick, and positional tracking eventually gets added in the form of some LED markers on your Rift and a Wiimote pointed at them? Sounds like a start to me!
EDIT: Oh, but there is a downside - head-based keyhole turning means you can't actually turn all the way behind you and look around without rotating. This would seem to eliminate one of the main selling points of VR; one of my game projects is heavily dependent on paranoia and constantly checking your six. So the above is A solution, but it's still not THE solution. Go figure it wouldn't be that easy.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:40 pm
by Pyry
I suspect people will just get used to turning with the analog sticks and moving really fast.
I really disliked the dual-analog stick control scheme when I first tried it, and if you watch people who have never played a console FPS before, they spend a lot of time looking at the floor or ceiling. Mouselook is not an intuitive control scheme either in a lot of ways: you have to coordinate between two hands, and there's the issue of what to do when the mouse reaches the edge of the mouse pad. I've played enough FPSs that I don't even consciously think about picking up the mouse to move it, but it's something that can cause serious frustration for new users.
'Tank' controls (where you can rotate and move forward/back but not strafe or look up/down easily) are more intuitive for new players, yet dual strafe+view setups have won out in the end because they're better after you learn them. So while these more tank-ish setups like keyhole might predominate in the beginning (like they did for the early PC FPSs (Doom) and console FPSs (Goldeneye)), probably everything is going to migrate back to a dual stick variant in the end (probably quadruple stick: two analog sticks for movement + motion sensing for hands).
Edit: Also, just to point out I'm not ignoring the nausea factor, people get acclimated to all kinds of nausea-inducing activities, including sailing, skydiving, riding roller-coasters, and being in orbit (which feels like falling all the time). Not to mention flying in airplanes and riding in cars.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:20 pm
by donkaradiablo
I refuse to shift my view without actually turning my head
I'll look around by looking around. Oculus spoiled me
A tactical vest with hydra's base and the rift's control box on it and I'll be good to go. It may not be for everyone but I would like to try gaming while standing up like that. A wireless hydra would make things easier for me as I wouldn't need a vest. Would be good if it happens, wouldn't be a deal breaker if it doesn't.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:47 pm
by Dan_Sixense
I think there's a solution in the way we integrated the Hydra into games using our FreeAim (TF2, HL2, L4D2) and other modes in non direct integrations. I HATE turning with the joystick. But the oculus hydra experience is so good, that I just cant get into any games anymore without it. I played Bioshock Infinite for like 30 minutes and it was amazing and beautiful but I couldnt FEEL the game like I can with even that Tuscany demo.
Check out Akimbo and Hybrid modes:
[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQkATuxo2c8[/youtube]
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:13 pm
by donkaradiablo
I'm much more interested in using the hydra in HL2 VR mod and in any game or mod that will follow the same pattern, right hand for separate aiming, left for gestures like trowing grenade, or maybe jumping, crouching and even moving around. Rift for freelook
Playing standing up or sitting down. That choice alone is going to dictate a gamers favorite control method. I believe I'll be much more immersed standing up. I understand that it's not for everyone. Actually, I don't think I'll be playing any game that doesn't offer seperate aiming. HL2 VR mod made me believe that I'll have enough content to make me happy
I don't want to go back to playing games the old way like an animal
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:54 pm
by drifter
Dan_Sixense wrote:I dont have any information about a wireless Hydra or a next generation of the Hydra sorry.
Really hope your baby will be successful enough now with the advent of the Rift. So we can see a V2 as soon as possible. Even if it still too expensive to be wireless, a bit more effective range and even less latency would be much appreciated
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:24 pm
by mayaman
mayaman wrote:Wouldn't the P5 glove be best for this?
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:17 pm
by Parallaxis
Apparently the tuscany/Sixense demo is released some time today:
http://sixense.com/forum/vbulletin/show ... #post13323
Time for impressions!
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:38 pm
by Lookforyourhands
Ahhhh where is the demo ? Been F5ing all day...
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:53 pm
by cybereality
I got to try the demo today. It may be one of the few things I've ever tried that I would classify as VR.
People are really going to like this.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:59 pm
by Lookforyourhands
cybereality wrote:I got to try the demo today. It may be one of the few things I've ever tried that I would classify as VR.
People are really going to like this.
Ahhh ! You're so lucky dude ! That's exactly why I'm so pumped about this.. it's seriously the 1st consumer demo I'm considering
actual, literal VR. Not just a gimmick, this is like the first stone going down when building the great pyramid.
Sign. me. up. lol
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:59 pm
by 3dvison
cybereality wrote:I got to try the demo today. It may be one of the few things I've ever tried that I would classify as VR.
People are really going to like this.
Hey Cyber,
How would you rate a Rift + Hydra+ Tuscany demo to other VR eqipment you have used in the past.
We know you here, you have used VR920, Vr1200, HMZ-V1 Palmer's early rift prototype ect..ect
Just how big a leep is the Rift+Hydra+Tuscany used together to things of the past ??
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:19 am
by maboo63
so where is the demo?
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:11 am
by Lookforyourhands
Hopefully they post it later today...
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:17 pm
by Vamplifire
demo still not up?
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:42 pm
by jayoh
nothing yet.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:12 pm
by cybereality
@3dvison: Well without trying to hype things up too much, it was probably the most compelling thing I've got to personally try, with regards to VR. Granted there were still some minor issues with the tracking and such, it wasn't perfect. But it allowed me to interact with the environment in very innovative ways. For example, there were a bunch of books on a shelf and I picked them up and stacked them like a house of cards. You can never do anything like that in normal FPS games. So I was really impressed by this.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:05 pm
by Tirregius
Dan_Sixense wrote:The Hydra is definitely enjoying increased popularity due to it's synergy with VR.
The 50% off sale Razer has going is on till the 28th and they still have them in stock last I checked.
Dan, great to hear you guys are such strong supporters of Oculus' HMD. Went ahead and doubled up on my Portal 2 ownership and bought a Hydra from your store.
Anyway, thanks for the discount and I'm happy to part with some dough, especially after hearing about the Tuscany demo support. I guess they are now back-ordered, but so is my Rift
I know I saw them for something like $40 at some point from another vendor, but I'd much rather send you my money.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:55 am
by Parallaxis
Hey! Where is the Tuscany/Sixense demo?
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:30 am
by Lookforyourhands
Yeaahhhh where's the demo ??
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:04 am
by pizzy00
Will today be the day no one knows. I am not plugging my hydra into my computer till this demo comes out lol.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:08 am
by Parallaxis
pizzy00 wrote:Will today be the day no one knows. I am not plugging my hydra into my computer till this demo comes out lol.
Same here. I haven't even tried my Hydra. Why bother when you know this device doesn't make much sense in a non VR environment.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:18 am
by pizzy00
My thinking is… yeah it may be cool in non VR env, but why use it in non VR env when I know how much cooler it is going to be in the VR demo. Here is bad metaphor if your are at a theme park would you rather ride the marry-a-go-round or the best roller coaster in the park lol.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:37 am
by LordJuanlo
V8Griff wrote:Dan_Sixense wrote:The Hydra is definitely enjoying increased popularity due to it's synergy with VR.
The 50% off sale Razer has going is on till the 28th and they still have them in stock last I checked.
On backorder in Europe though....
It looks like they are back, I ordered one on March 29th and it was queued on backorder, but today I got the shipment notification from Razer.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:58 am
by V8Griff
LordJuanlo wrote:V8Griff wrote:Dan_Sixense wrote:The Hydra is definitely enjoying increased popularity due to it's synergy with VR.
The 50% off sale Razer has going is on till the 28th and they still have them in stock last I checked.
On backorder in Europe though....
It looks like they are back, I ordered one on March 29th and it was queued on backorder, but today I got the shipment notification from Razer.
Yes got my shipment email today as well
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:35 pm
by maboo63
yeah me too!
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:49 pm
by Namielus
I am really hoping for this hydra demo to be released soon. I need it badly (not joking!)
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:19 pm
by pizzy00
There is hope for today maybe. If Sixense is based there they may still be working. I need it badly also.
3:18 PM
Wednesday, April 10, 2013 (PDT)
Time in Los Gatos, CA
Ok back to spamming F5 on their forum and twitter.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:21 pm
by MrGreen
Well I guess this delay means they're probably improving it before release right?
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:32 pm
by Parallaxis
Maybe Oculus decided to integrate the demo into the official Tuscany demo. That's pretty much the only explanation I can come up with.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:03 pm
by Plagued
ahh we have an -
"It's almost time. My bad for the false alarm" from Dan and
"Testing what should be the release build right now." from Glen
My hydra is currently "Processed at GATWICK - UK" according to DHL.
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:07 pm
by V8Griff
Plagued wrote:My hydra is currently "Processed at GATWICK - UK" according to DHL.
Mine as well
Re: Tuscany Razer Hydra Demo
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:30 pm
by kenohki
V8Griff wrote:Plagued wrote:My hydra is currently "Processed at GATWICK - UK" according to DHL.
Mine as well
Not mine
Thursday, April 11, 2013 Location Time
6 Departed Facility in GATWICK - UK GATWICK - UK 20:36