Meant to be Seen

you'd be surprised about what people are afraid of

Zoide wrote:

ftarnogol wrote:Hey Zoide, yup, that's me

For v1.0 I'll just "feature" spiders, but it's a matter of adding other animals in subsequent iterations. Cockroaches and pigeons are at the top of the list

Pigeons? I had no idea people were afraid of those I do avoid them because I've heard that they spread a lot of diseases. It really bothers me that people feed them breadcrumbs at the outdoor areas of the hospital I go to

I didn't know that people were actually afraid of pigeons either. However, I have always said that pigeons were one of the scariest animals around though. Have you ever been walking at night and passed a bush with pigeons sleeping in it? They suddenly fly out and make an extremely startling sound. It'll scare the hell out of you. I'm not sure any amount of VR therapy can cure that though.

The prototype looks like it's progressing nicely, Jan! I still think there's a niche-niche-niche market for a stained hardwood final product.

I noticed that you've got some pretty beefy plates at the base of the supports now; certainly interested to see how that helped with flexing when you put your weight on it. Also, did the black walking surface help with reflections for the Kinect tracking at all?

So I'm assuming does this mean that the device is going to be only used for walking ? No crouching ?

Zoide, the pin at the bottom of the sole is a plunger pin which is pushed in when standing in the center zone.

Bill, thanks! The stained hardwood would surely go well with some fancy royal oak furniture, ha. The beefy base plates indeed make the support structure much stronger - won't break easily. And yes, you are right, the black surface actually works better with the Kinect!

Lang, the Omni can be used for walking, running, strafing, jumping and backwards walking; crouching, however, is tough to reconcile in a cost effective way with a support structure. That being said, our software recognizes bending down / stooping as crouching. Not perfect, but it works.

JanVR wrote:Zoide, the pin at the bottom of the sole is a plunger pin which is pushed in when standing in the center zone.

Of course!!! I can't believe I didn't think of that

That's a very simple and elegant solution. I guess that's why you're the celebrated inventor

Keep up the good work Jan, I'll keep the feedback coming in case it helps.

Any feedback or input helps, so please do!

Jan, is it safe to assume that walking isn't really possible without the waist support structure?


Also, the retracting pin is a great idea! This thing is going to be awesome.

Jan, what if you attach the waist support to the user instead of the base?
I mean, what if you attach a rigid waist support to the user (something like this lumbar support http://static.dme-direct.com/media/cata ... lumbar.jpg ),
then two arms are attached to the back of the support and freely move over a circular rail that is fixed at the bottom of the base?
The rail wold have a square section, so it can't allow the arms to roll over it (with the risk of the user falling down) and would have a vertical telescopic section to allow different user heights plus crouching and jumping.
The joint on the back should allow some degree of front and lateral movement (say 30/45 degrees) to feel less constricted.
Is it an absurd idea?

I will say, this is looking very good. I could be interested in getting at least one of these.

JanVR, what is the potential for jumping etc, in future iterations? A VR system allowing us to perform jump kicks etc would be awesome

I must have missed it earlier in the threads for this, but what are the pins/grooves for?

Mystify wrote:I must have missed it earlier in the threads for this, but what are the pins/grooves for?

They fit into the radial grooves on the floor so that your feet don't slide all over the place as if you were walking on ice.

Hi MSat, walking without the support structure might be possible after good practice, but initially the support structure will be needed (and possibly always needed). It is also for safety reasons. That being said, the support structure can be taken off.

Hi Crespo, some observations regarding your suggestion: having to turn with two arms attached to you back will create quite some inertia. Also, seems like you would be bound to the turning radius of the circular rail, which will feel unnatural (you don't really follow a circle when turning IRL). How would the crouching be reconciled with the telescopic section having to prevent you from going down?

WiredEarp, jumping is definitely possible. That being said, you would be jumping up and down, not forward. The software can emulate a forward jump whenever you jump on the Omni.

Mystify, the grooves and pin is to keep your foot stable on the low-friction surface (otherwise, you would be "walking on ice"). With the pin and groove, your foot is stable and the gait is natural.

Thanks all for the good questions. I'll be sure to provide a FAQ section on our website (under construction). I should also make sure to demonstrate all the possible moves in the next demo video (which, hopefully, will be with the Rift instead of my myopic Vuzix glasses ).

JanVR wrote:How would the crouching be reconciled with the telescopic section having to prevent you from going down?

You could do it by using a mechanism similar to that of car seat belts. When you put them on, they slide effortlessly as long as you pull at a slow to regular speed. If you suddenly pull on them quickly, they lock up.

I see, that does make sense. It effectively allows for directional friction.

JanVR wrote: Hi Crespo, some observations regarding your suggestion: having to turn with two arms attached to your back will create quite some inertia. Also, seems like you would be bound to the turning radius of the circular rail, which will feel unnatural (you don't really follow a circle when turning IRL). How would the crouching be reconciled with the telescopic section having to prevent you from going down?

I don't know if your support is there for safety only or if it's also a need to walk over that groovy surface.
If it's needed also to walk, I think my idea can't work.
If it's for safety only, maybe my idea can work, it may let the user free to move until there's the risk of falling down.
If you use telescopic arms that extend only for a limited amount of lenght, from just above a crouched position to well above a jump position, and let them slide freely on the circular ring, but with a joint so that they can roll for a limited angle (say 10/15 degrees), then you have a less constrictive waist support that steps in only when you lose your balance, and doesn't force you to turn on a fixed radius because arms have a little amount of roll ability and can extend and shorten.
You can't obviously use wooden or metal arms, you have to make them as light as possible, because there's the inertia problem you mentioned, I don't know if it could be annoying or negligible, trying would be the only way to verify, but I think it would take too much time

crespo80 wrote:

JanVR wrote: Hi Crespo, some observations regarding your suggestion: having to turn with two arms attached to your back will create quite some inertia. Also, seems like you would be bound to the turning radius of the circular rail, which will feel unnatural (you don't really follow a circle when turning IRL). How would the crouching be reconciled with the telescopic section having to prevent you from going down?

I don't know if your support is there for safety only or if it's also a need to walk over that groovy surface.
If it's needed also to walk, I think my idea can't work.
If it's for safety only, maybe my idea can work, it may let the user free to move until there's the risk of falling down.
If you use telescopic arms that extend only for a limited amount of lenght, from just above a crouched position to well above a jump position, and let them slide freely on the circular ring, but with a joint so that they can roll for a limited angle (say 10/15 degrees), then you have a less constrictive waist support that steps in only when you lose your balance, and doesn't force you to turn on a fixed radius because arms have a little amount of roll ability and can extend and shorten.
You can't obviously use wooden or metal arms, you have to make them as light as possible, because there's the inertia problem you mentioned, I don't know if it could be annoying or negligible, trying is the only way to verify

just construct an upholstered cave around the omni and you will learn how to walk.
at least this is the way i want to try it.
very nice that the omni allows to take the support ring off.

I can just imagine all the games we could play with this!
Crysis 6 in this.... Or battlefield 5?!

Dantesinferno wrote: Crysis 6 in this.... Or battlefield 5?!

I hope we don't have wait that long. I mean, I'd be fine with Half-Life 2.

JanVR currently you are using the kinect for tracking but I imagine that you are researching other tracking methods at the moment? I imagine that you would like to work towards not having to rely (entirely) on a third part solution like the kinect. Since this is a stationary device would some kind of magnetic tracking (like the Razer Hydra) work well? Sensors integrated into the harness and the circle that encompasses the player to provide all of your tracking or to at least compliment other trackers in the player? I'm sure the average consumer would rather purchase an all-in-one device and not have to worry about buying another peripheral. I definitely envision your project growing into something big! Also, I'm really digging your latest prototype!

Matching ingame turning to the ring waist support and adding some loadcells/pressure sensors to the shoes which translate the footsteps into the game, sensing could work. This way it could use a similar controller interface like some foot pedals discussed in the other thread. It would be cool if all controllers for VR would use a similar approach when it comes to a controller interface board.

I agree, any final end consumer product would need to be a fully integrated solution, with internal tracking system, software, etc. Developing such a product will take quite some time and resources, but it is certainly the end game. For the Kickstarter, though, we will probably follow the Oculus example and promise a "Dev Kit"-like product, i.e., not a plug-n-play device, but the Omni in its standalone form with basic Kinect support software. The user will need to provide the other peripherals (tracking system, controller, ...). Perhaps we will offer some of these peripherals via bundled reward tiers.

Check it out: Palmer Luckey, Chris Roberts, Paul Bettner, and others tried out the Virtuix Omni!

https://twitter.com/VirtuixOmni/status/ ... 36/photo/1

JanVR, PalmerTech: Any impressions? Plans to work together, etc?

Nice, but a photo without the rift?

Hey, nice! I'm sure you got some useful feedback.

I think this is the first picture we're seeing of someone actually using the new prototype, and I noticed that you did flip the belt around and lower the support ring height a bit. Are you happy with how that panned out? I was hoping that it would help the gait feel more natural and give arms a bit more room to swing.

Colocolo, I can't agree more, where is that Rift? Waiting in the (long) line to get my dev kit...

Bill, you are seeing right, we flipped the belt, which is a great improvement (easier and more comfortable, although the overall comfort of the straps is still pretty poor, ha). The ring in this prototype is height adjustable, which is necessary.

Zoide, no formal plans to work together; Palmer was simply so kind to come try the Omni and generous to invite his co-panelists. I was very grateful for this opportunity! Good times.

Palmer seems to be happy. Either you fed him cookies, or he likes your Virtuix

@Jan

I know this has been touched on before, but perhaps exchanging effort needed to turn your body for comfort is worth (re)considering. From my admittedly crude experiments, a simple waist strap could be used when it's connected to a solid (but cushioned) backing plate that doesn't roll. If the inside ring (not the platform's ring) you're using is rigid enough, perhaps it could be incorporated into that with a minimal increase in mass? Sure, it's a trade off, but the added comfort might be worthwhile. Just a thought

JanVR wrote:[...] although the overall comfort of the straps is still pretty poor [...]

Haha, I can imagine. I think I still have some phantom imprints left over from my first "close encounter" with it. (j/k )

Are you back down to four straps from six? I was wondering if making the bottom two straps cross over in an "X" shape, possibly with a small pad to help spread out the load might help.

Good to see the progress!

JanVR: So what did they say? Did they like it? Did they have any suggestions for improving it?

I'm really looking forward to supporting you when the Kickstarter comes out

Hi Zoide, yes, the Omni was approved by Palmer and co (otherwise I would not post this on his forum, ha). They were so kind to allow us to film the entire gathering for our Kickstarter video, so we'll have some great footage and sound bites.

Bill, we are down to three straps (one waist belt and two leg straps). Making it comfortable will not be a big issue; just has not been priority for the prototype. We can get some fancy satin for sensitive skins

This is getting better and better. I can foresee official Omni integration into the Oculus SDK...

I have a hard time imagining anyone outside the most hardcore enthusiasts would want something like this. Or maybe for military training or something like that.

But if that's what you're aiming for, I think you will have plenty success with the kickstarter.

The biggest problem for me, is that it only emulates walking on a flat surface. What about jumping, swimming, stairs etc. But I do like that this is an incredible clever and low cost solution compared to what's available out there.

Parallaxis wrote:I have a hard time imagining anyone outside the most hardcore enthusiasts would want something like this. Or maybe for military training or something like that.

But if that's what you're aiming for, I think you will have plenty success with the kickstarter.

The biggest problem for me, is that it only emulates walking on a flat surface. What about jumping, swimming, stairs etc. But I do like that this is an incredible clever and low cost solution compared to what's available out there.

We have to put up with the fact that there will be many compromises with VR.
I really thought a lot about simulating reality physically. Its just impossible. Quick example:
You want to climb a tree.....How can one simulate such complexity.
Sure you could climb a simulated wall or grasp a cylinder which simulates a branch, buts thats it.
Or a bush touching your legs.
I dont even think that a neural interface will heal that problems.
In a dream we dont feel our whole muscles apart from one. What you feel are only emotions or hormones.
The whole body is controlled by the brain but to feel your body you actually have to move it.
What i want to point out is that moving your body in a dream is a complete different feeling from that in reality and neural interfaces wont make it feel different.
Thoughts can go everywhere even into the last galaxy, but physically you are human being with two legs and two arms.

colocolo wrote:We have to put up with the fact that there will be many compromises with VR.
I really thought a lot about simulating reality physically. Its just impossible. Quick example:
You want to climb a tree.....How can one simulate such complexity.

Well, nanobots could possibly create physical environments on the fly in the future, but that's probably not within our lifetime.

JanVR wrote:Hi Zoide, yes, the Omni was approved by Palmer and co (otherwise I would not post this on his forum, ha). They were so kind to allow us to film the entire gathering for our Kickstarter video, so we'll have some great footage and sound bites.

Any chance of seeing some clips of that, or some quotes?

Man, this looks amazing. If it isn´t going to be too expensive I consider buying it via Kickstarter.
If its to expensive I will have to wait for the consumer release :/

this can go worldwide

i will back this project if the main focus will 100% stay vr :p

JanVR wrote:Bill, you are seeing right, we flipped the belt, which is a great improvement (easier and more comfortable, although the overall comfort of the straps is still pretty poor, ha). The ring in this prototype is height adjustable, which is necessary.

What fabric are you using for the straps? It might be better off wrapped in something either extremely slick like Teflon or extremely soft like microfiber or even something familiar feeling like high thread count cotton. I'd also suggest filling it with gel like the straps to a laptop bag.