[REQ] 3D Helmet using mini projectors

[staticbuddha]

I did a not so good post about an attempt to make a 3D helmet, however thinking deeper and harder I thought of the below helmet. Which surly without question would work and be as cheap to make as it would cost for a IZ3D/Zalman but with no ghosting due to always being in the sweet spot and the effect of a 50" + screen size like a hmd. Also being much cheaper the TRivisions HD visor

What do you guys think ??

Code: Select all

added "req" in the title. by sharky

[cybereality]

Yeah, its an awesome idea man! I had that idea too but you still need the projectors. I'm patiently waiting...

[cirk2]

The idear is niche but I see one problem:

Your projectors ave to be abel to focus on that short range, my beamer at home neets to be 1.5-2 meters away from the scren to focus.

[staticbuddha]

Aparently this shouldnt be a problem with these projectors and they use tottally different technolgy. They use a laser instead of a bulb and they always stay within complete focas and that there only problem is the further away the nano projector is moved from the viewing area the bigger the picture and hense the loss in light.

So it should work even at a close range, I also though that they may be very hot but again becasue no bulb is used there is next to no heat.

They always weigh around 65grams each - thats liek a bag of crisps

here is a pic of a nano projector which looks very close to its screen



Glad you both feel its a good idea

[cirk2]

ah ok didn't know that...

The low light shouldn't be the problem, the helmet should be complete dark.

When can we see the first prototype? ,)

[LukePC1]

so the projector has about the sice of that Ipod?

I never had a HMD, but many are below 200g, which could be hard for your DIY project.

Do you realy need the polarizers? I think it could be better to place the projectors next to each other and have a seperate screen for each eye

[Okta]

This is awesome news i did not know about the nano's. Hopefully they will bypass the struggling lcd hmd progress all together. Is there any availability and pricing for the nano projectors yet?

For your hmd i agree with luke it would be preferable to have left and right screens for each eye and avoid the polarized filters or you will have ghosting issues to contend with. Also it may be be nesessary to use optics or the eyes may not be able to deal with such a close image so the display looks further away than right in your face.

[cybereality]

Wait, the projectors real? How much and where do I buy it?

[staticbuddha]

Just to confirm the projectors are real, expect some big news this month at the E3 converance.

here is one of many links for now http://www.explay.co.il/index.php?optio ... 7&Itemid=8

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I imagine they will be released in the next few months if not defo by the end of the year....

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The pricing will be cheap , maybe not real cheap to start of with like all things expect to pay full wack for the first year.
However each unit is claimed to be around the £100mark (give or take £50 depending on resolution / make etc)
This may seem to cheap but these will be in every product from new handheld games consoles to ipods to phones and will be made in there millions if not billions.
They will also be cheap as they use laser technolgy, thats right no bulb which is the main cost of big projectors

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I totaly agree that the hmd way to use these projectors is a much better idea. I was more aiming for the dome view to immerse the player even more with 180 degree gaming screen (see picture below) I imagine this maybe harder with each indivual projectiong if not then hmd like nano rojection here we come

Also ghosting wont be a problem even with polarisation, for example the Zalman is ghost free is you sit in the sweet spot but move your head and you get slight to heavy ghosting (PS I ahve a Zalman) But with this if you mov your head the screen will move with you, so your always in the sweet spot.




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Also for the prototype which aint gonna happen fast but great getting input from everyone and getting ideas together now, we can use a molding plastic for mask and holder. Which sounds aloot easier then problly doing it. check out



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cheers for you ideas and thoughts ,

[cybereality]

The reason for the polarizers is so you can get the full FOV for both eyes. Otherwise you have to split the image and you lose the FOV.

But for the best possible picture quality, you might want to keep them separate.

Also, nice image (the one in the egyptian tomb). That would be some gaming setup there.

[Tril]

I would not want a projector using a laser to display on small polarized screens in a hmd. I would be worried about safety. The laser may be very low power per area on a big screen but not on a screen that's a few square inch. I would be worried that too much power would be reflected back into the eye. On top of that, polarized screen reflect more (diffuse less) light than standard screens. It still far from a mirror but it's closer to it than a conventional screen material. This means more light from the laser reflecting from the surface toward your eyes. It does not mean that it's impossible but I would personally leave that kind of project to professionals that can certify the safety of the device.

The dome is interesting. I'd like to try one, one day.

[crim3]

Don't forget that you need a lens for each eye to build a HMD. They are one of the most expensive parts and heavier also.

[Borg_Rootan]

I would not want a projector using a laser to display on small polarized screens in a hmd. I would be worried about safety. The laser may be very low power per area on a big screen but not on a screen that's a few square inch. I would be worried that too much power would be reflected back into the eye. On top of that, polarized screen reflect more (diffuse less) light than standard screens. It still far from a mirror but it's closer to it than a conventional screen material. This means more light from the laser reflecting from the surface toward your eyes. It does not mean that it's impossible but I would personally leave that kind of project to professionals that can certify the safety of the device.

The dome is interesting. I'd like to try one, one day.

Laser produce one more hard problem for polarization. Laser is polarized!!!! Only one solution is 90st. reversatin of laser emitors. But then we have amazing level of polarization!

[LukePC1]

Not shure about lasers beeing polarized, but if they are, you could either turn them, so it's the direction you want.
If that does not work, you could use a polarization shifter?

[Borg_Rootan]

Not shure about lasers beeing polarized, but if they are, you could either turn them, so it's the direction you want.
If that does not work, you could use a polarization shifter?

When lasers turning will be posible, then they are absolutely perfect source of polarized lights. When they are constructed like three integrated "inline" diodes on board (like in laser pointers - not emiter in circle package), then you coldn't turn them. About polarization shifter - I don't know how it works, but if it can turning light polarization 90st.,then it's OK.

[sharky]

what about the weight of the helmet? some people complain about the weight of hmd.. moreover, would you like to have a 230 V (110 in the us) rig just 2 cm away from your brain? and the cooling system? hot air on your head is not the best in the middle of the summer..

[LukePC1]

If it's based on LED or laser technique, the heat should be minimal - but it exists!

Weight... each projector is 60-80g? So yes wight will be an issue.. with optics thats at least 300g maybe some more casing?

@ polarization: I read about 45° retarders. If you use them for both projectors (in different directions) that is 90°. Alternatively you could just take two polarizers at 45°...

[Borg_Rootan]

I would not want a projector using a laser to display on small polarized screens in a hmd. I would be worried about safety. The laser may be very low power per area on a big screen but not on a screen that's a few square inch. I would be worried that too much power would be reflected back into the eye. On top of that, polarized screen reflect more (diffuse less) light than standard screens. It still far from a mirror but it's closer to it than a conventional screen material. This means more light from the laser reflecting from the surface toward your eyes. It does not mean that it's impossible but I would personally leave that kind of project to professionals that can certify the safety of the device.

The dome is interesting. I'd like to try one, one day.

That's right. Laser is pulsed source. Stream of light isn't continual, but it has relative hi-energy pulses. Projection idea is same as CRT electron streaming to screen mask. Only one diference is direct light, no luminofor transformation => direct reflection to eye may be very dangerous!!!

[Borg_Rootan]

Just to confirm the projectors are real, expect some big news this month at the E3 converance.

here is one of many links for now http://www.explay.co.il/index.php?optio ... 7&Itemid=8

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I don't see anything about laser source there. Only this: Restriction-free operation, Child safe. With lasers this will be imposible.

[LukePC1]

ExPlay’s revolutionary laser based projection technology enables high-resolution images 20 times larger than the mobile device itself.

from the link above...
(just searched for laser in the text...)

Why couldn't a laser be child proof?
Afraid it would eat the projector?
The 'laser' could be so 'bad' that it does not hurt theye. Also it could be so fast moving, that it does not hurt the eye as well.

The moving could be done with a laser and a DLP chip. The Mirror (of the DLP) changes the direction of the ligt so fast, that it has not enough time to do any damage...
The single photons are not realy dangerous (630nm for red light has always the same Energy). The problem might be to 'see' all of them at one time without any afterglowing...

But then I ask you: what is different to a DLP projector? You could watch directly into it, too - even if it is very uncomfortable.

[staticbuddha]

If polarisation was either to difficult or expensive or would the weight would be unsuitable >....



1) Dual projection - no polarisation

2) Single projector with side by side view - with a spitter in the middle of the visor block any excess light from each projector

- If there was a problem with the laser a filter could be made on the output of the laser to maybe block harmful rays, ??

[Borg_Rootan]

ExPlay’s revolutionary laser based projection technology enables high-resolution images 20 times larger than the mobile device itself.

from the link above...
(just searched for laser in the text...)

Why couldn't a laser be child proof?
Afraid it would eat the projector?
The 'laser' could be so 'bad' that it does not hurt theye. Also it could be so fast moving, that it does not hurt the eye as well.

The moving could be done with a laser and a DLP chip. The Mirror (of the DLP) changes the direction of the ligt so fast, that it has not enough time to do any damage...
The single photons are not realy dangerous (630nm for red light has always the same Energy). The problem might be to 'see' all of them at one time without any afterglowing...

But then I ask you: what is different to a DLP projector? You could watch directly into it, too - even if it is very uncomfortable.

- Sorry "laser based projetor" I see it.

- Loking to Laser projector directly from short range (and this may child doing or not!?) = full laser ray shoting to eye. Mirror speed is irrelevat, because beam dissipation is low on this case. No restriction then would be absurdity.

- Single photon? That's litle crazy post. Know you speed of light? Therewithall Photons aren't going in a row, Laser is coherent light source and on one wave may be many many many photons with same phase.

- DLP projector have high light energy beam to, but no one say: "DLP projector has Restriction-free operation, Child safe"

[cybereality]

In the worst case, wouldn't you be able to use laser safety goggles to eliminate any danger?
http://www.phillips-safety.com/Laser-Sa ... /Index.htm

Although some of those goggles cost as much as some cheap HMDs so that may be an issue.

[Borg_Rootan]

In the worst case, wouldn't you be able to use laser safety goggles to eliminate any danger?
http://www.phillips-safety.com/Laser-Sa ... /Index.htm

Although some of those goggles cost as much as some cheap HMDs so that may be an issue.

Yes, it's good idea. That's interesting item. Has anybody experience with it? How it works? I mean, what if this filtrate laser light completely? Then you don't see any light from projector

Idea: back projection with forefront mirrors + Optic accessories like in diapositive stereoviewer (anything like this? http://www.loreo.com/pages/products/lor ... photo.html )

I'am very confused, if producer presents "It is safe on all cases" ...then this will be, but lasers with that power couldn't be safe.

[LukePC1]

- Loking to Laser projector directly from short range (and this may child doing or not!?) = full laser ray shoting to eye. Mirror speed is irrelevat, because beam dissipation is low on this case. No restriction then would be absurdity.

- Single photon? That's litle crazy post. Know you speed of light? Therewithall Photons aren't going in a row, Laser is coherent light source and on one wave may be many many many photons with same phase.

- DLP projector have high light energy beam to, but no one say: "DLP projector has Restriction-free operation, Child safe"

I know it's crazy
back to photons: maybe they need 10ms+ to damage the eye. If the frequency is high enough it could be ok. After the contact with this 'Army' of photons the receptors of the eye have time to 'rest'...
I'm not realy shure of the medical part, but maybe it's at least proof to a good degree. And the first mm are made in the projector, so you spread the laser always to some area - even if its very close and a small area...

you have to put in account that these things can't be THAT strong (compared to a DLP projector)... However I'm not shure it is no risk to use it as planned

Well something tells me, this is going to be realy expencive...

[cybereality]

Well this DIY helmet is getting more expensive then even the TDVisor HD prototype. I think I'd rather get that and save my eyes from potential melt-down.

[Borg_Rootan]

Well this DIY helmet is getting more expensive then even the TDVisor HD prototype. I think I'd rather get that and save my eyes from potential melt-down.

--Litle offtopic--
TDVisor HD looks good, but FOV is to small. Why they doing this? Where is problem with producing better FOV? Using DLP projector with googles produce biger image. Size "as in real" is request nr.1 for me. Size gives beter feelings to me than absolutely no ghosting or any else.

[android78]

--Litle offtopic--
TDVisor HD looks good, but FOV is to small. Why they doing this? Where is problem with producing better FOV? Using DLP projector with googles produce biger image. Size "as in real" is request nr.1 for me. Size gives beter feelings to me than absolutely no ghosting or any else.

Larger FOV = Larger Optics = More expensive and heavier
There is also the issue that the optics when you get greater FOV have to compensate for the fact that the lens is moving its' position so the edges will be out of focus.

[staticbuddha]

I unfortenatly do not know anything about this new type of laser projection and therefore my views are most likly void but...



This picture shows the many ways this projector can be used, Im pretty sure that along the way that a) someone may walk in front of a projector and look directly into the laser and b) that some annoying kid with use it and purposly place it in front of your eye trying to blind you. With taking this into consideration the big firms making these projectors must know that this will happen quite oftern and if people started becoming blind or burning of the reatner occured then they would get the asses sued, so I imagine that this will not be a problem.

Also if you remember the laser pens, which are now illegal in the UK due to kids burning peoples eyes out,, emmm nice

- So in my eyes no filters should need to be used
- Also the cost should be very cheap not expensive, If the projector costs around £150 , and the molding cost say £100ish each as not being massed produced (helmet) and screen matrial which will absorb the projector image (£30ish) and then thats it.

Thats under £300 quid and even if it was upto £500 quid that quite a bit of differance companred to the TDVisor (HD Version) ok im comparing it to the HD version but it wont be long until these projectors produce HD

I dont know, but I dont personally feel they will have the problems that everyone surgests???? maybe im wrong ???

just my 50 cents

PS, I also found this article which if you go though http://www.projectisle.com.au/projector ... system.asp
It does say :Safe - Restriction-free operation Child safe which I dont know if that makes any differance


Also it says no glass, no prisms, NO MOVING PARTS, and no need for fans to provide heat dissipation , last bit very important ... no heat

also from article Resolutions Supported: QCIF, CIF, VGA, NTSC, 1024x512 (resolutions up to 2048x1280 including SXGA and S-HDTV available upon request)

also great 3D projector article in this aswell

[crim3]

I don't know if having the displays so close can produce eye strain. If so, you still need lenses like those in the HMDs.

But I must admit that in spite all this seems the most plausible DIY HMD.

[staticbuddha]

Defo agree about eye strain, which no one will be able to tell until one is made and tested

but the projectors should also come with a mim distance usage which should give some degree if it will be usable at this distance

[DelTorres]

I don't think there is an issue with the laser. VRD are to work with lasers too. Somewhere I read (german article about VRDs) that the energy is very low and one would need to point the laser 2 hrs at a certain point in the retina to damage it. This again would only be the case if the VRD laser fails and does not move the projected beam anymore.

[Okta]

If polarisation was either to difficult or expensive or would the weight would be unsuitable >....



1) Dual projection - no polarisation

2) Single projector with side by side view - with a spitter in the middle of the visor block any excess light from each projector

- If there was a problem with the laser a filter could be made on the output of the laser to maybe block harmful rays, ??

Number 1 would only work with prisms in front of the eyes to bend the view outwards towards each screen, then of course there will be some keystoning.

Number 2 will not be stereoscopic since these are lcd based.

[smoothy]

wow I'm glad that okta pointed me to this thread. I had made a thread about something similar here http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2499" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know why you guys having mentioned the microvision projectors. These are 848x480p pico projectors . They are making HD versions but that's probably a long way a way. This pico projector is coming out in 6 months time and will cost $500. I think because of the brightness it would be safer to use 1 projector and a splitter. With the splitter you could still get two images that will sync as stereoscopic. It will be cheaper this way and shouldn't damage your eyes. I read that microvision's laser is a class 2 laser and it's safe to be pointed in the eye. They are making mobile eye wear for virtual reality/augmented reality applications. This eye wear is said to be coming out next year. Still I think if you were to just use 1 projector and make it so it's not stereoscopic it wouldn't matter as if you can make it completely wrap around your field of view filling the entire human visual field. Then this would be so immersive and you would still feel depth and perhaps be just as good as if it was stereoscopic. My plan is to project to a motorbike helmets visor in a rear projected setup. Then use sol7 image warping software. Read more in the thread I posted above and post here.

[Okta]

wow I'm glad that okta pointed me to this thread. I had made a thread about something similar here http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2499" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know why you guys having mentioned the microvision projectors. These are 848x480p pico projectors . They are making HD versions but that's probably a long way a way. This pico projector is coming out in 6 months time and will cost $500. I think because of the brightness it would be safer to use 1 projector and a splitter. With the splitter you could still get two images that will sync as stereoscopic. It will be cheaper this way and shouldn't damage your eyes. I read that microvision's laser is a class 2 laser and it's safe to be pointed in the eye. They are making mobile eye wear for virtual reality/augmented reality applications. This eye wear is said to be coming out next year. Still I think if you were to just use 1 projector and make it so it's not stereoscopic it wouldn't matter as if you can make it completely wrap around your field of view filling the entire human visual field. Then this would be so immersive and you would still feel depth and perhaps be just as good as if it was stereoscopic. My plan is to project to a motorbike helmets visor in a rear projected setup. Then use sol7 image warping software. Read more in the thread I posted above and post here.

The motorbike helment idea has an issue i can think of. Place a large photo right up in front of your face and see how comfortable it is. Not very at all. I think with a fresnel lens setup you might counteract this effect but that brings other issues.

And can you explain your splitter idea further?

[smoothy]

the splitter idea would be a optical screen that sits in front of the laser source. Which splits the RGB laser light into two separate images before they hit the projection screen. I imagine you would need curved optics if you don't want to project to a motorbike helmets visor. Several HMD manufacturers already use splitters in their single lens setups. The latest HMD maker I can think of is headplay who used one LCOS display and a splitter that split the image into two stereo 3d images. This could be made for a single laser source I believe.

[smoothy]

The motorbike helmet idea has an issue i can think of. Place a large photo right up in front of your face and see how comfortable it is. Not very at all. I think with a fresnel lens setup you might counteract this effect but that brings other issues.

Please explain these other issues when using a fresnel?

I don't know a lot about fresnel but I do know that there not used in many consumer affordable HMD's because of the costs so they stay in military HMD's only. I have known they can be bought cheaply for people who want to put them in front of their monitor to increase the screen size. But I heard to use them in HMD's you need very high quality ones and there used in a collimated setup for the HMD. And if you don't know what your doing it can be a very complex building project.

[icesterftl]

With two projectors all You need is to change lenses and add two 90 deg small mirrors for each eye.
I made stereoscopic preview on digital camera with lenses and mirrors.
Here is the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/photo-3d/ ... 0/pic/list

[Okta]

With two projectors all You need is to change lenses and add two 90 deg small mirrors for each eye.
I made stereoscopic preview on digital camera with lenses and mirrors.
Here is the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/photo-3d/ ... 0/pic/list

Any chance you can post info here or make a new thread and show us what you have done?

[icesterftl]

With two projectors all You need is to change lenses and add two 90 deg small mirrors for each eye.
I made stereoscopic preview on digital camera with lenses and mirrors.
Here is the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/photo-3d/ ... 0/pic/list

Any chance you can post info here or make a new thread and show us what you have done?

Here is the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/photo-3d/ ... 0/pic/list