Meant to be Seen

MaterialDefender wrote:most game programmers are smart enough to not write glass panes to the Z-buffer, for example, but the scene behind them.

Absolutely, but that means the glass pane itself won't be correctly displaced, no? Primarily, I wasn't worrying about static geometry but effects implemented using alpha blending, such as smoke and fire. And of course anything where the shading is impacted by the camera position.

I'm not saying it can't be done well, or that it's not a useful method, however all the implementations of Z-buffer based stereo 3D I've seen so far have left a lot to be desired compared to the "real" thing. I also agree that high quality AA is essential, particularly at devkit resolutions. Personally, if it came down to it I'd rather buy a 2nd GPU -- I realize that's not quite a mainstream-ready solution.

Absolutely, but that means the glass pane itself won't be correctly displaced

You will usually have a very hard time to notice such things while you are playing (and not searching for image artifacts ), after all it's next to transparent.

And the "real thing" isn't often exactly free of minor artifacts either. Non working shadows, misplaced shader effects, crosshairs at wrong depth, etc., to name just a few of the more common issues.

Both methods have their advantages and disadvantages. And personally I wouldn't call one them better than the other. But tastes are different, of course.

I cant remember if it has been asked yet. Will game support be a game by game thing or will there be a generic profile to try for unsupported games and settings to create a profile? Mount and Blade must be made!!

I am pretty excited about this software

MaterialDefender wrote:And the "real thing" isn't often exactly free of minor artifacts either. Non working shadows, misplaced shader effects, crosshairs at wrong depth, etc., to name just a few of the more common issues.

But those artifacts usually happen when support for stereoscopic rendering is added to the game later on, not when it is built with it in mind (e.g. "3D Vision Ready" games). The damning thing about reprojection, at least to me, is that it has issues even when built right into the game by the developer (e.g. Crysis 2). It's clear there is a quality/speed tradeoff there, and while the speed advantage is significant it's not like the quality part isn't there.

@Okta: Mount and Blade (Warblade) is supported. I haven't really played it though and am unsure whether it's very well suited to be played on the Rift in general. But in regard to VorpX it does work fine.

As things stand now there will most likely be a generic profile that has most functionality minus the stereoscopic 3D. Image warping and head tracking in mouse emulation mode will work for most games out of the box. Stereoscopic 3D has to be added game by game though, most likely there will be ~50 for the initial release. Support for more will be added later, depending on the success of the thing, of course.

@Durante:

But those artifacts usually happen when support for stereoscopic rendering is added to the game later on

Yes, but that's what were talking about here, isn't it? Adding 3D support to games that do not have it built in. Not much use for a driver like this if a game already has stereoscopic 3D.

HI

I know its a long shot but would this driver work with Silent Hunter 5?

This game would be perfect for VR

hammerbot wrote:HI

I know its a long shot but would this driver work with Silent Hunter 5?

This game would be perfect for VR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY0lBjrlfT0

Holy cow! Imagine this with the Rift and some GVS http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=15403

Have competitions with your friends to see who can keep his lunch down the longest

Haven't seen anybody here talking about Flight Simulator 2004 & X, what about them? Rift + FSX would change my life.

Okta wrote:

hammerbot wrote:HI

I know its a long shot but would this driver work with Silent Hunter 5?

This game would be perfect for VR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY0lBjrlfT0

Holy cow! Imagine this with the Rift and some GVS http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=15403

Have competitions with your friends to see who can keep his lunch down the longest

Yeah. My fav video is this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmvkGPBYQMA

Just imagine seeing this trough rift

MaterialDefender wrote:@kalabalik: There will be some racing games for sure, most likely not every single one from your list for now though. Aerofly FS doesn't seem to be that popular, so it might not make it into the initial release. But I have it on my list now. So maybe it will be supported later, provided it uses DirectX.

Very nice to have some racers!

But even if Aerofly aint that popular right now I could easily see that change with a Rift...

Just watch these:
Wonderful video; and according to a commenter it's super easy to pick up and play: http://youtu.be/KAZwLM_mVzo
Glider aerobatics: http://youtu.be/CAnGkWoQTf0
Someone already got the HMZ working with AFS: http://youtu.be/loRqx92CGdQ


So that would be a very nice flight sim to use as its arcadey in its simplicity but yet a joy to fly as the wind simulation and 'feel' of the planes has the right weight to them...

Can't wait to soar the swiss skies! <3

What I would really love to see with Rift is Free Space 2 for me its the most awesome space game ever.

I get such a flashbacks when I look at the Hawken videos because the cabin "feeling" of suitability is same with Free Space when thinking of Rift.

The thing is that Free Space 2 actually was released as an Open Source project so it would be one hell of a blast to see it with Rift

Cromfel wrote:What I would really love to see with Rift is Free Space 2 for me its the most awesome space game ever.

I get such a flashbacks when I look at the Hawken videos because the cabin "feeling" of suitability is same with Free Space when thinking of Rift.

The thing is that Free Space 2 actually was released as an Open Source project so it would be one hell of a blast to see it with Rift

I purchased Free Space 2 to use with my DIY Rift (for, like, $3.00), and discovered that it's a non-DirectX game. Apparently there's a DX9 conversion for it somewhere, but I was unable to find it. Does anyone know anything about this 'patch'.

@ miFFhoe: I'll be using it with FSX etc. However, I suspect it will be too hard to read gauges etc due to the resolution, and unfortunately due to the complete VR coverage, we wont be able to use external gauges etc either, so will have to rely on zoom.

WiredEarp wrote:@ miFFhoe: I'll be using it with FSX etc. However, I suspect it will be too hard to read gauges etc due to the resolution, and unfortunately due to the complete VR coverage, we wont be able to use external gauges etc either, so will have to rely on zoom.

FWIW: I tried FS-X on my DIY Rift, in conjunction with DDD and TrackIR 5, and didn't have any problem reading the gauges if I leaned towards them a bit. The two big issues with FS-X were the less than optimal out-the-window views due to low screen resolution and really low frame rate (sorry, I didn't measure the frame rate, but I would estimate it at somewhere between 10 and 20 FPS).

My machine: Window 7/64, Core i7 @ 2.67GHz, 6Gb RAM, Geforce GTX-285.

Not a stellar machine, but no slouch either. Hopefully MaterialDefender's 'driver' can remedy the frame rate problem.

Mel wrote:

WiredEarp wrote:@ miFFhoe: I'll be using it with FSX etc. However, I suspect it will be too hard to read gauges etc due to the resolution, and unfortunately due to the complete VR coverage, we wont be able to use external gauges etc either, so will have to rely on zoom.

FWIW: I tried FS-X on my DIY Rift, in conjunction with DDD and TrackIR 5, and didn't have any problem reading the gauges if I leaned towards them a bit. The two big issues with FS-X were the less than optimal out-the-window views due to low screen resolution and really low frame rate (sorry, I didn't measure the frame rate, but I would estimate it at somewhere between 10 and 20 FPS).

My machine: Window 7/64, Core i7 @ 2.67GHz, 6Gb RAM, Geforce GTX-285.

Not a stellar machine, but no slouch either. Hopefully MaterialDefender's 'driver' can remedy the frame rate problem.

Well that seems pretty awesome I've got TrackIR5 to so leaning towards the instruments in the NGX wont be a problem for me:) How awesome is it to fly with that kind of view ?
I've got I7 2600k@4,4GHz, 8GB RAM, GTX580 and get around 30fps in 1080p, hopefully i'll get higher fps with the lower res so..

Will it be a big problem integrating Rifts tracking into FSX?

Mel wrote:I purchased Free Space 2 to use with my DIY Rift (for, like, $3.00), and discovered that it's a non-DirectX game. Apparently there's a DX9 conversion for it somewhere, but I was unable to find it. Does anyone know anything about this 'patch'.

I have had some success with older games with this http://sourceforge.net/projects/gldirect/ Quake 3 on the DIY was a novelty.

I got FS-X working but it was laggy and I got motion sickness when the plane banked.

@ Mel: what driver were you using for your DIY Rift? Is it a warping driver that is causing the frames to drop that low, or just your system rendering FSX in 3D? What vid card do you have?

@ bobjwatts: that looks cool, but the site says its only for XP max. Do you know if theres a version or equivalent that works on Windows Vista/7?

miFFhoe wrote:

Mel wrote:

WiredEarp wrote:@ miFFhoe: I'll be using it with FSX etc. However, I suspect it will be too hard to read gauges etc due to the resolution, and unfortunately due to the complete VR coverage, we wont be able to use external gauges etc either, so will have to rely on zoom.

FWIW: I tried FS-X on my DIY Rift, in conjunction with DDD and TrackIR 5, and didn't have any problem reading the gauges if I leaned towards them a bit. The two big issues with FS-X were the less than optimal out-the-window views due to low screen resolution and really low frame rate (sorry, I didn't measure the frame rate, but I would estimate it at somewhere between 10 and 20 FPS).

My machine: Window 7/64, Core i7 @ 2.67GHz, 6Gb RAM, Geforce GTX-285.

Not a stellar machine, but no slouch either. Hopefully MaterialDefender's 'driver' can remedy the frame rate problem.

Well that seems pretty awesome I've got TrackIR5 to so leaning towards the instruments in the NGX wont be a problem for me:) How awesome is it to fly with that kind of view ?
I've got I7 2600k@4,4GHz, 8GB RAM, GTX580 and get around 30fps in 1080p, hopefully i'll get higher fps with the lower res so..

Will it be a big problem integrating Rifts tracking into FSX?

I would not call the FS-X experience awesome, by any means. For the two reasons given, it was more like 'just OK'. If you're only getting 30FPS at 1080p, then I'd guess that you probably couldn't expect much better than 20-25FPS at 1280x800, stereo.

WiredEarp wrote:@ Mel: what driver were you using for your DIY Rift? Is it a warping driver that is causing the frames to drop that low, or just your system rendering FSX in 3D? What vid card do you have?

I used DDD in SBS mode, so no warping and no aspect correction. Low framerate is strictly from a lack of PC horsepower for the stereo render.

My machine: Window 7/64, Core i7 @ 2.67GHz, 6Gb RAM, Geforce GTX-285.

Regarding FSX: VorpX works with FSX, this is something I really wanted for myself too. It has the usual ~10% performance loss.

MaterialDefender wrote:Regarding FSX: VorpX works with FSX, this is something I really wanted for myself too. It has the usual ~10% performance loss.

That's great news, performance-wise.

Given that the current state of motion sensing (from Oculus, at least) does not include translation, how do you handle head-tracking is FS-X? TrackIR-5 is good in that you can lean closer to the gauges to get a better look (read: better clarity due to the 'zoom' effect achieved simply by putting your head closer).

Nothing I can do about positional tracking, unfortunately. That's a restriction of the devkit, but will be taken care of for the consumer version of the Rift if I understood that correctly. With the devkit you will have to use something like TrackIR additionally.

MaterialDefender wrote:Nothing I can do about positional tracking, unfortunately. That's a restriction of the devkit, but will be taken care of for the consumer version of the Rift if I understood that correctly. With the devkit you will have to use something like TrackIR additionally.

But if the devkit APIs did provide translation data, would it be usable as far as your re-projection technique is concerned?

VorpX has functionality for mapping sensor input to mouse movement. Adding TrackIR functionality to this might be possible, that's not connected to the way the 3d effect is created. But this is nothing I will look into now, since it doesn't make any sense for the devkit.

Provided the Rifts consumer version will get positional tracking, I will look into that for sure.

WiredEarp wrote:@ bobjwatts: that looks cool, but the site says its only for XP max. Do you know if theres a version or equivalent that works on Windows Vista/7?

Yeah I'm using it in Win7 64 without any issues.

It makes sense for the devkit because your eyes don't rotate around their combined centre when you yaw, pitch, and roll. You roll with your neck and torso, so it is really leaning around the cockpit. Your eyes also move down and forwards when you pitch down. So even with a 3DOF tracker, you should be sending 6DOF TrackIR input to the game, based on a head, neck, and torso rotation model. Unless they have an actual TrackIR.

Hi MaterialDefender.

Would this driver be compatible with Silent Hunter 5 by any chance? There is a pretty big community over subsim.com who would absolutely love to be inside their submarine.

Congratulations on your achievments!

Since we are already compiling a wishlist for supported games, i have another rather exotic game which i would love to experience in VR
Star Wars Republic Commando. Its a quite nice FPS, the guys are wearing helmets its not demanding from a hardware perspective, DirectX i guess, fantastic star wars atmosphere and sound and theres a demo to play around
a man can dream

@2EyeGuy: All I will say is, that this is partially considered.

@hammerbot, backstaia: No promises for the first release regarding stereoscopic 3D. There is a high chance though that both games will run without stereo 3D. Better than nothing, I would say.

@Namielus: Thanks, your project looks interesting, too.

MaterialDefender wrote:...

@hammerbot, backstaia: No promises for the first release regarding stereoscopic 3D. There is a high chance though that both games will run without stereo 3D. Better than nothing, I would say.

....

And I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that once we get solid positional tracking that provides the all important parallaxing, 2D will not only be better than nothing, it might even be as good as, or better than 3D.

I say this as someone who gets eye strain really fast watching 3D. At movies, I basically run at a 50% duty cycle in terms of when I have the glasses on or off. For this reason, I'm really hoping someone gives us upper body positioning with a second sensor mounted at the base of the neck. Seems cheap and easy to me...but hey, I don't have to code it .

Mel wrote:I say this as someone who gets eye strain really fast watching 3D. At movies, I basically run at a 50% duty cycle in terms of when I have the glasses on or off. For this reason, I'm really hoping someone gives us upper body positioning with a second sensor mounted at the base of the neck. Seems cheap and easy to me...but hey, I don't have to code it .

I'd be real disappointed if games didn't provide the option to turn off stereoscopic 3d.

Btw, MaterialDefender:

I am updating my supported games list, to feature VorpX titles.

Would you mind randomly naming some more titles where you can confirm support? The more the merrier. Lots of people reading it, so it will be good exposure for VorpX even tho it does not return any direct google searches yet.


I would love to put in some racing sim titles, but any namedrops will be much appreciated.

German wrote:I'd be real disappointed if games didn't provide the option to turn off stereoscopic 3d.

You can use the same option you use in real life to turn off stereoscopic 3d... close one eye. People do use that option in real life sometimes, but it's not very common. I agree there probably should be a software option though, since the 3D isn't perfect with this driver.

But with the new 7 inch screens, 2D isn't as easy as people think, since it's not 100% overlap.

Mel wrote: I say this as someone who gets eye strain really fast watching 3D.

There have been a few video reviews of the RIFT where the people were amazed at how good the 3d is because they get eye-strain or headaches watching 3d movies but have no problem with the RIFT, so I wouldn't be surprised if you have no issue with it.

It's not surprising really since your eye's are basically focused at infinity with the RIFT which is closer to a natural resting focus then having to focus on a screen to watch a movie so your eye's don't work as hard so no strain.

German wrote: I'd be real disappointed if games didn't provide the option to turn off stereoscopic 3d.

Even if there is no option (which is unlikely) then you'll still almost definately just be able to turn the stereo seperation slide down to 0, which being in basically all games I can't see it not being in RIFT games. The downside is even though it's not in 3d anymore you still have the 3d rendering penalty since it is still rendering two frames (one for each eye, just that it happens they are identical) rather then just the one and displaying it on both sides.

It will be interesting to see how not having 100% overlap affects having the seperation set to 0 as well.

Will be disappointing if there isn't a 2d option though as i'm sure even with a good system there will be times you just can't run at 60fps in 3d and would rather it in 2d then 3d with all the settings turned to low.

@Namielus: I've got one for you that is 100% 'certified' incl. stereoscopy: Racedriver GRID. There will be more though.

@Mel, German, 2EyeGuy, Endothermic: It's possible to turn off 3D but keep everything else, including the SUT (Small Useful Things ) that deal with a few limitations of old games on the Rift (I really hate to act that secretly about those, but the world is bad... So nothing concrete for now).

Partial Overlap works just fine with and without 3D. So if Oculus goes that road, I'm prepared.

For stereoblind people it would be nice to get that framerate back...

This topic is getting me very excited (as if I wasn't enough already) for the Rift launch. Looking forward to GRID support (I presume all the codemasters ones are similar) - Dirt 3 works awesomely in 3d already.

Good luck with everything @MaterialDefender and I look forward to hearing more on pricing and game support nearer the time.

Endothermic wrote:

Mel wrote: I say this as someone who gets eye strain really fast watching 3D.

There have been a few video reviews of the RIFT where the people were amazed at how good the 3d is because they get eye-strain or headaches watching 3d movies but have no problem with the RIFT, so I wouldn't be surprised if you have no issue with it.

It's not surprising really since your eye's are basically focused at infinity with the RIFT which is closer to a natural resting focus then having to focus on a screen to watch a movie so your eye's don't work as hard so no strain.

...

I built a DIY Rift and I definitely got eye strain.

Edit To Add: My guess is that my super-small IPD (~5.6cm) has a lot to do with the eye strain.