Meant to be Seen

Mart wrote:From what I can tell, the total UK cost of the Oculus Rift dev kit will be about £282, excluding any foreign credit card fees or exchange rate inflations.

My calculation:
$330 = £206
+ Import duty of 14% based on commodity code 852859402 (£29) = £235
+ VAT of 20% (£47) = £282

Hello mate, can I assume from the above calculation that you are in fact based in the UK? Where about and are you getting a rift? Not to be overly presumptuous, but id love to find someone near me (the midlands) for a hands on experience before I take the plunge.

Yours cheekily lol

Paul

jaybug wrote:Aren't you supposed to leave out the shipping cost when calculating VAT?

Unfortunately not, you have to include it:

"In the case of goods posted from outside the EU, it is the amount on the Customs Declaration, which includes the price paid for the goods, the cost of transport, postage and packing, insurance and any duty that may be payable." (Source)

jaybug wrote:Also, should you calculate VAT after adding the import duty?

The £47 is 20% of £235, although I didn't make that clear in my breakdown.

therage79 wrote:Hello mate, can I assume from the above calculation that you are in fact based in the UK? Where about and are you getting a rift? Not to be overly presumptuous, but id love to find someone near me (the midlands) for a hands on experience before I take the plunge.

I'm getting a Rift and would be happy to demo, but I'm in Bedfordshire. Probably a bit too far

2EeyeGuy;
(about Norway)
As much as I believe in taxes to benefit the society, there has to be a limit. The way a small item is taxed here is actually more stealing from us than anything else. Let me tell you about how it is here.
If the item is more expensive the fees make more sense, but it does not only go to the goverment. Our postal service takes a good chunk of the tax simply for putting into a computer if it needs taxation or not.

Anything below 35usd and its tax and vat free. But once it goes one dollar above there is suddenly 25% vat/import duty to the government, and suddenly the Norwegian postal service wants a "toll handling charge" of 20 friggin dollars just to add the 25%.
That's in addition to the charge it takes for normal shipping.

You also pay value added tax for the shipping that is +25%.
But even without that a 35.5 dollar item suddenly becomes 35.5+25% =44,4usd + 20usd handling charge = 64usd.

I think I pay enough already without doubling the price to make some companies pocket thicker. Its not about getting better schools or anything, its about easy money for the postal service. Can I use a different mail delivery service to avoid this? No they have a monopoly. They don't just use toll to protect Norwegian companies, they actually have import bans.
For example grocery stores cannot import certain types of cheese and butter.
And about the money I use to pay with. I pay close to 50% taxes on my income.
Just to own a tv, you have to pay a yearly license fee of 500 dollars + price and taxes on whatever subscriptions you have.

I am sounding like I am anti-taxes here, but don't get me wrong. I just want to illustrate how extreme Norway is compared to other countries and somehow explain why many people are sleezing out of the minor things they can.

Our government has _zero_ debt. In fact our government has a growing fund of money presently at more than 700 billion dollars in total. That's our money, and its a more than 140 000 dollars per citizen.

Now I think it would be a stupid idea to hand it all out, I am simply saying that Norway is a special case and given how much we pay in income taxes and a crazy amount of fees and charges - the government will not suffer from some people sleezing their way out of the vat/toll charges from time to time.

In the case of Oculus Rift btw, it is a very valid discussion as it is in fact not a normal consumer product even if treated as such.
It is closer to a tool for developing a platform and having developers do research and feedback to Oculus + develop content.
I would say its in the gray zone as a prototype. Please don't read this as a rant, I am not the type to rage on the internet.


I just find this discussion interesting. Btw, I am not personally complaining, I am just defending some others.

Norway does sound a bit extreme, but I've noticed Norway tends to appear right at the top of lists of the best countries in the world, so they seem to be doing something right. Although Australia tends to come second, so their way works too.

Yes, we have it good.
However, someone else having it worse does not remove your right to be unhappy about something or wanting change.
For all the good things in Norway there are definitely things that should change soon.
I am not talking about removing fees/taxes completely , maybe just scale and make more sense.

Lets say I buy a Camaro in sweden , our neighbor. I can get a camaro there for 50 000 dollars used.
You know how much the import fees/enviroment taxes and all will total?
50 000 dollars for the car 120 000 dollars in fees/taxes thank you very much.

No I am not lying.

therage79 wrote:Hello mate, can I assume from the above calculation that you are in fact based in the UK? Where about and are you getting a rift? Not to be overly presumptuous, but id love to find someone near me (the midlands) for a hands on experience before I take the plunge.

I'm getting a Rift and would be happy to demo, but I'm in Bedfordshire. Probably a bit too far [/quote]

Well its closer that Edinburgh, which is the only other person I have checked with...but yeah I was hoping you were closer lol!

Thanks anyway..and i'll have to wait for all your excited feedback on here as to whether its worth the mileage lol!

Paul

Import duty rate of 2.9% and VAT rate of 20% .
Duty result for item display prototype is nil because the total amount of duty payable for this item is less than £9.00

When I run through http://www.dutycalculator.com with product category: 3d Glasses (9004901000)

Here in Italy, customs is a real pain in the ass:

If a standard service is used (say USPS priority) the package is "parked" in our customs offices for OVER A MONTH until someone, at his own discretion, decides if it has to be taxed or not and how much.

If a private courier is used (say UPS or FedeX), the package bypasses the normal customs because it's always taxed over the declared value (by 25%) and usually takes a week.

I prefer the certainty of an express courier service, I'm sure it will arrive within days even if I'm sure to pay the duty, so I hope they'll go that way, or at least the USPS express

zacherynuk wrote:Import duty rate of 2.9% and VAT rate of 20% .
Duty result for item display prototype is nil because the total amount of duty payable for this item is less than £9.00

When I run through http://www.dutycalculator.com with product category: 3d Glasses (9004901000)

I spoke to UK customs (HMRC) about this the other day and they said that the DIY Rifts (first 100 un-assembled kits) should be treated as “commercial samples” and are therefore exempt from all UK taxes, but the sender must state this clearly on the outside of the package and also on the customs declaration form (CN22), they have recommended using this specific wording:

TAX RELIEF CLAIMED: Commercial sample of negligible value
( Inoperable / Incomplete / Unassembled Prototype )

The guy I spoke to said that the kit, as shipped, is considered to be of negligible retail value as it needs some expertise to assemble and is missing a vital component (software), it should probably also be exempt on the grounds that it will be used for “research purposes” and to encourage orders of the final retail product.

The worst case scenario is that the components are taxed individually (the LCD screen alone would push it over the threshold), and the shipment may even need to be seized for “extended classification”. When it is finally delivered the courier will request payment for import tax, sales tax (VAT) and additional couriers “handling fees” which could total over $150!

But if the wording above is used we shouldn't be charged or have the shipment delayed. Oculus should be assured that any disputes with HMRC are raised by the recipient, the sender will not be contacted by them and has no liability of any sort, I know they must all be really busy but if they could see this is done for UK shipments it should save us all a lot of grief.

So, I'm thinking, given the fast approach to November's end and the upcoming holiday, as well as just having recently settled into their business location, and all that I imagine must go into trying to make sure such a huge shipment of multi-tech component-dependent product would be QC'd and confirmed ready for developer primetime, not to mention Palmer Luckey's, no doubt, need to prep at least somewhat for his upcoming commitment in London... that we may all need to graciously let go of the expectation for a November update on surprise features, let alone a November ship date for the unassembled prototype kit for those who ordered that one (and possibly December shipdate for the assembled).

I'd presume that with so much intense emotions surrounding anticipation of the Oculus Rift's arrival, there would be an understandably natural hesitancy to potentially trigger negative response by declaring delays until absolutely certain such delays couldn't be avoided. Better to focus all efforts on burning the midnight oil, which they surely are, seeing if said delays might still be avoided, possibly sparing developer and early adopter anxiety, then only declaring such a delay in the final event that they might ultimately be deemed unavoidable.

But, I say, in the name of supporting their amazingly tireless and passionate efforts to bring something wondrously fun to our worlds, and in fairness to their originally slated shipdates having only been declared from the start on their ends as "estimates" and not "deadlines," and finally, in the name of their wanting to do it right rather than rushed (as so many other tech companies have made the mistake of doing), let's alleviate the hard-working Oculus Team of a little of THEIR anxiety, and extend them a gracious understanding of any potentially well-needed use of extra time to maintain the quality aspired toward in the release of their product, as well as the mutable leeway to give status updates only when comfortably knowing they can finally back them up with informed confirmation in due course, despite however otherwise anxiously expected. Perhaps, though I might be counted among those that will inevitably fail, we can make a fairly concerted effort to put delivery dates and updates out-of-mind from this day forward, only to have them surprisingly return from the forgotten on that fated day in the future when we get an unexpected email notification.

Meanwhile, and in the very same vein, I think I'll simply wish the Oculus Team (--[GRUNT] [STRAIN]-- presently beating back down my Anticipation Monster) a little more productive breathing room and in more ways than one... a Very Happy Thanksgiving.

LazloTheGreat wrote:So, I'm thinking, given the fast approach to November's end and the upcoming holiday, as well as just having recently settled into their business location, and all that I imagine must go into trying to make sure such a huge shipment of multi-tech component-dependent product would be QC'd and confirmed ready for developer primetime, not to mention Palmer Luckey's, no doubt, need to prep at least somewhat for his upcoming commitment in London... that we may all need to graciously let go of the expectation for a November update on surprise features, let alone a November ship date for the unassembled prototype kit for those who ordered that one (and possibly December shipdate for the assembled). I'd presume that with so much intense emotions surrounding anticipation of the Oculus Rift's arrival, there would be an understandably natural hesitancy to potentially trigger negative response by declaring delays until absolutely certain such delays couldn't be avoided. Better to focus all efforts on burning the midnight oil, which they surely are, seeing if said delays might still be avoided, possibly sparing developer and early adopter anxiety, then only declaring such a delay in the final event that they might ultimately be deemed unavoidable. But, I say, in the name of supporting their amazingly tireless and passionate efforts to bring something wondrously fun to our worlds, and in fairness to their originally slated shipdates having only been declared from the start on their ends as "estimates" and not "deadlines," and finally, in the name of their wanting to do it right rather than rushed (as so many other tech companies have made the mistake of doing), let's alleviate the hard-working Oculus Team of a little of THEIR anxiety, and extend them a gracious understanding of any potentially well-needed use of extra time to maintain the quality aspired toward in the release of their product, as well as the mutable leeway to give status updates only when comfortably knowing they can finally back them up with informed confirmation in due course, despite however otherwise anxiously expected. Perhaps, though I might be counted among those that will inevitably fail, we can make a fairly concerted effort to put delivery dates and updates out-of-mind from this day forward, only to have them surprisingly return from the forgotten on that fated day in the future when we get an unexpected email notification. Meanwhile, and in the very same vein, I think I'll simply wish the Oculus Team (--[GRUNT] [STRAIN]-- presently beating back down my Anticipation Monster) a little more productive breathing room and in more ways than one... a Very Happy Thanksgiving.

Let's give a warm welcome to Oculus's new PR/Image Management team. Very nice seeding for the inevitable announcement...



(Welcome LTG)

I remember some people raging even before the Kickstarter. Some forum rage is inevitable if they announce a delay.
I can personally wait as long as it takes for Oculus to deliver the product they want to stand behind proudly.

I like this new guy!

Yes, I may cry myself to sleep if there are delays, but ultimately we all want an awesome product.

Go team Oculus!

@LazloTheGreat - needs more carriage return.

@LazloTheGreat

Great post, but that post needs some more spacing mate Extremely hard to read, and
you exellent point vanish behind an wall of text.

The only real concern I have is the potential end of the world scenario in December, and that making me not able to ever harness the power of the Rift.

Mayan calendars aside, just like with the initial delays on Kickstarter start, it has ALWAYS been in the best interest of the consumer. Even from the initial Kickstarter we're getting a much cheaper, FAR superior product than initially quoted, for the low cost of a little bit of time. I hope most can see that as a supremely favorable trade-off.

Go T.O.R.!!

Thx Bob & Calle, good call on the need for a space here and there to make it look less like a computer screen from The Matrix.

Mel, haha, thanks for the honorary job placement.

I think the estimate shipping date in Kickstarter is too accurate:a month or two delay for complex projects is common. Better would be to give the estimate in quarter, like big companies do for commercial products. This would probably produce less stress from both sides.

I also prefer a better and error-free product at the cost of some delay, but what i do not understand is why Oculus set the estimate pre-order delivery just an month after the Kickstarter one.
A small delay will cause even more people wait.

You think this a game!? I am afraid i can not be as diplomatic and understanding as the rest of you, there for i have gather a collection of non-fake puppies(or kittens) and i will promptly slit each one for every day that the rift is delayed. Lets hope it is nothing like a year because I don't know where I am going to find 365 of the things.

Alkapwn wrote:The only real concern I have is the potential end of the world scenario in December, and that making me not able to ever harness the power of the Rift.

Mayan calendars aside, just like with the initial delays on Kickstarter start, it has ALWAYS been in the best interest of the consumer. Even from the initial Kickstarter we're getting a much cheaper, FAR superior product than initially quoted, for the low cost of a little bit of time. I hope most can see that as a supremely favorable trade-off.

Go T.O.R.!!

The silly 'End Of Days' Mayan Calendar panic thing aside, I am kinda concerned that the pending global economic/social melt-down scenario will play out sooner than later, thus triggering a standard, economics-driven world war. This could seriously dampen Rift delivery times.

I'm only half joking.

@Nogard This is an interesting question!
Let assume that you use rabbits and they need one month to reach maturity. Mature pairs produce 1 pair of offspring each month.
A young pair produces as many rabbits as the Fibonacci sequence (1,1,2,3,5,8,13,...).
How many pairs do you need at the beginning of January in order to have enough to slit one every day

troffmo5 wrote:@Nogard This is an interesting question!
Let assume that you use rabbits and they need one month to reach maturity. Mature pairs produce 1 pair of offspring each month.
A young pair produces as many rabbits as the Fibonacci sequence (1,1,2,3,5,8,13,...).
How many pairs do you need at the beginning of January in order to have enough to slit one every day

Three, one female, one male and one of ether sex, slit the ether sex one and then i can just keep breeding them after slit the babies, i could do four with two females that can stagger the births to give the other a break.

Dycus wrote:I like this new guy!

Who said you could take a break to surf the internet when you should be working on getting the Rift ready, Dycus? Get back to work right now! I expect everything to be ready when I get home after I finish taking 3 weeks off to tour Europe and having a wonderful vacation from developing. Just kidding.

But if we could get our Rifts by Christmas, or before New Year, we would all be extremely happy with you. Don't forget that making the hardware is only the first step, there are thousands of software developers wanting to start work on the software side but needing a Rift or SDK to do so. But as long as we get our Rifts before Valentines Day, we'll still love you.

But please don't let Nogard do this:

The atmosphere in this topic suddenly turned a bit dark
Then again, as Doom was used to promote the kickstarter, people are probably not shocked that easily.

Edit: 2EyeGuy you beat me to it!

Well, it is usually said that to get realistic time frames for developing stuff, you take what engineers tell you and multiply it by two.
And besides, if delay means some extra stuff for developers to work with - like better tracker, possible Leap integration, etc - by all means take your time, once units ship extra features would me much harder to add or enhance.

Well it's the last Monday in November, Anyone else feel today might be the day we get some news on the first batch of rifts been sent out.

Looking forward to hearing plenty of news and reviews, i know people shouldn't but they will.

The future of the next level in video gaming is almost upon us. Bring it on .

Things are way too quiet, this worries me.

I would think there has to be an update this week one way or another. I'm not going to read into their silence too much although their last update paved the way for a delay announcement.

I think the November units will be delayed, and it will probably affect the assembled units that were supposed to ship in December. So I'm afraid my assembled Rift unit won't arrive this year

I hope to be completely wrong, but I think they would have said something by now if everything was on track. I guess there will be some kind of announcement this week.

I agree, we need a major UPDATE in the next four days!

PalmerTech wrote:We are working on November shipments as fast as we can. The situation is a bit different than when I started the Kickstarter, though; The parts are not all entirely off the shelf, getting units before the main run is tough.

I will update when I know, don't worry.

PalmerTech wrote:We are still on track to ship [assembled kits] this year.

Doesn't seem like there's an overall delay, just that it's not as easy getting all the parts to ship out early.
In other words, not a delay of the whole schedule, just a decrease in the time between November kits and December kits (mostly by "delay" of November kits)

I do hope they give some kind of update this week, this "once a month" update schedule is not fun.. Talk to us. Tell us how you can't tell us anything yet. Anything but this silence!

sambeckett wrote:I agree, we need a major UPDATE in the next four days!

You will get it. We just got back from China, had jetlagged Thanksgiving, and now have a big update in the works! Communication is going to be easier going forward.

o yea!

jayoh wrote:o yea!

*crashes through wall*


Happy to hear there will be some news soon

PalmerTech wrote:

sambeckett wrote:I agree, we need a major UPDATE in the next four days!

You will get it. We just got back from China, had jetlagged Thanksgiving, and now have a big update in the works! Communication is going to be easier going forward.

Yesss!

Thanks for the short sign of life already looking forward to the next update

I love big updates, thanks Palmer! Can't wait!!!

PalmerTech wrote: We just got back from China, had jetlagged Thanksgiving, and now have a big update in the works! Communication is going to be easier going forward.

So, the big question is... how heavy were your suitcases when you got back from China?
Did you happen to bring 20,000 Oculus Rift's back with you, by any chance?

Yeah, I'm hoping Oculus has contracted a Chinese factory for mass production.

wavefunction wrote:Yeah, I'm hoping Oculus has contracted a Chinese factory for mass production.

I think it's just going to be Dycus - in a locked room, with a soldering iron, 100 cases of Red Bull, and a 1/2 kilo of meth. Have a Merry Christmas Dycus!