Meant to be Seen

brantlew wrote:You need to check out Cyber's driver. It handles Rift warp correction and injects camera roll as well.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 150#p76766

Whoa, mad props for Cyber!

Emerson has aslo been working on this along with Cyber. This is the info I used to test Skyrim on my monitor at home:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=15086

Would love to get your impressions of this with your DIY pre-Rift setup!

Brandon9271 wrote: @Cybereality since you used all three, How did the Hydra compare to the Wiimote and PS Move? Seems like the Hydra would be easier to work with and more of a complete solution.

Well in terms of performance the Hydra probably is the best. Very accurate and precise. However it is wired, so it limits its use in a VR scenario. Especially if you want to do full-freedom (or at least 360 turning) then you need to go with a wireless solution. So, for example, in my BacktopVR demo I used the Wiimote (w/ motion+) and the PS Move Navigator. The Wiimote with Motion+ is actually pretty decent for a gun controller, and is probably good enough for gaming. I only used the Navigator for the buttons and haven't actually worked with the PS Move camera or anything yet.

rfurlan wrote:As it turns out I am getting some image artifacts because the LVDS cables I have aren't properly shielded.

Yeah, that cable looks pretty subpar. You could try making your own cable. Order a ribbon cable and connect it between the boards so that it's in the form of | LVDS+ | LVDS- | GND | LVDS+ | LVDS- | GND | REPEAT... . You want the positive and negative signals to reside in adjacent cables with a ground cable between the next pair so that there's no crosstalk between pairs. LVDS is pretty resilient to external noise. Have you tried looking at the signal with an oscilloscope?

Krenzo wrote: Yeah, that cable looks pretty subpar. You could try making your own cable. Order a ribbon cable and connect it between the boards so that it's in the form of | LVDS+ | LVDS- | GND | LVDS+ | LVDS- | GND | REPEAT... . You want the positive and negative signals to reside in adjacent cables with a ground cable between the next pair so that there's no crosstalk between pairs. LVDS is pretty resilient to external noise. Have you tried looking at the signal with an oscilloscope?

Thank you for the advice Krenzo! I will order a ribbon cable tonight. My background is in CS so debugging this is somewhat out of my league. I managed to reduce the noise down to almost nothing by twisting the cable - but it is still there

cybereality wrote:

Brandon9271 wrote: @Cybereality since you used all three, How did the Hydra compare to the Wiimote and PS Move? Seems like the Hydra would be easier to work with and more of a complete solution.

Well in terms of performance the Hydra probably is the best. Very accurate and precise. However it is wired, so it limits its use in a VR scenario. Especially if you want to do full-freedom (or at least 360 turning) then you need to go with a wireless solution. So, for example, in my BacktopVR demo I used the Wiimote (w/ motion+) and the PS Move Navigator. The Wiimote with Motion+ is actually pretty decent for a gun controller, and is probably good enough for gaming. I only used the Navigator for the buttons and haven't actually worked with the PS Move camera or anything yet.

The original prototype from Sixense was wireless but I guess razer made it wired to keep the cost down. From my understand the magnetic field "emitter" is a passive device that if hacked apart from the base could just be powered with batteries or DC power supply. Then you could place it somewhere in the room and connect the rest of the stuff to your laptop and be free to move around. I'll know more when I get mine and tear it apart Too bad they didn't make it wireless to start with. Here are some very cool videos if you haven't seen them.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88ih9VKiAnI[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAb8SBzcPLE[/youtube]

rfurlan wrote:Thank you for the advice Krenzo! I will order a ribbon cable tonight. My background is in CS so debugging this is somewhat out of my league. I managed to reduce the noise down to almost nothing by twisting the cable - but it is still there

Ahh, I was wondering if that was a factor. Any cable that uses differential signaling (ie ethernet cable) is normally twisted to get the 100 ohm differential impedance matching, but with the cable being so short and the clock only being ~70 MHz, I figure most of the problem is from crosstalk between different pairs.

long time lurker here thanks rfurlan for inspiring me, I have ordered everything required to build a prototype, I was able to order 2x SV-2LPLED delivered to australia from widgetsupply.com for $20, LCD+Board ordered from ebay. I hope to have everything within next 2 weeks to start building. Exciting times.

simmoi wrote:long time lurker here thanks rfurlan for inspiring me, I have ordered everything required to build a prototype, I was able to order 2x SV-2LPLED delivered to australia from widgetsupply.com for $20, LCD+Board ordered from ebay. I hope to have everything within next 2 weeks to start building. Exciting times.

Awesome to hear that Simmoi!

If there is anything I can do to help - let me know

I'm new here but decided I wanted to play along as well! Never been a huge hardware guy but this doesn't look that hard. Ordered up some parts, waiting on them to arrive. I'm in the US so hopefully it won't be too terribly long.

Thanks for starting this thread rfurlan! It's inspired me to try and tackle making my own HMD. The thing is, I've never really tried my hand at anything like that (the extent of my electronic hardware knowledge is from doing projects with an Arduino board and random odd end tasks, like replacing laptop LCD panels and such), so I thought this would be a good way to learn. I've already ordered some lens to play around with, and when I go to order the lcd panel, I'll have to make sure I order it with the control board and connections included - I'm new to the hardware side and I'm afraid I wouldn't have a clue what parts I'd have to buy individually for the LCD, what's compatible and not :/ Either way, I'm definitely excited to see where all of this goes

TheRealistWord wrote:Thanks for starting this thread rfurlan! It's inspired me to try and tackle making my own HMD. The thing is, I've never really tried my hand at anything like that (the extent of my electronic hardware knowledge is from doing projects with an Arduino board and random odd end tasks, like replacing laptop LCD panels and such), so I thought this would be a good way to learn. I've already ordered some lens to play around with, and when I go to order the lcd panel, I'll have to make sure I order it with the control board and connections included - I'm new to the hardware side and I'm afraid I wouldn't have a clue what parts I'd have to buy individually for the LCD, what's compatible and not :/ Either way, I'm definitely excited to see where all of this goes

That is great to hear!

I am not a hardware guy either but I am sure we can help each other along the way

I am working on the faceplate today, hoping to have something head mounted by the weekend

@Brandon9271: Those are some cool videos for the Hydra. I hadn't seen them before.

Update:

(1) Building a comfortable faceplate is hard because if you want a large FOV you need to get as close to the lenses as possible.
(2) As a starting point, you can use the faceplate from the FOV2GO template for the Samsung Galaxy Note (http://bit.ly/RO3Ckq) and add between 0.5cm to 1cm to the distance between the eyes.
(3) Since we are going to add a head-tracker, make sure you buy the thinnest HDMI/DVI/USB cables you can find.
(4) I tried the "LEEP on the cheap" lenses today, FOV is just a bit narrower and overall the image is much sharper - reading HUD elements around the corners of the screen is possible. This is a very heavy solution though, and more complicated (two lenses per eye).

Does anyone have any material suggestions for the outer shell? I am currently working with foamcore sheets - good enough for trying things out but definitely not a durable solution

Have you viewed any content yet through the lens/screen system? I'd like to hear your impressions once you get to that point. There are some SBS warped images and videos posted around here that you could check out.

rfurlan wrote:Hi Fredz, I could ship you a pair if you would like, PM me and let me know

Thanks for the offer, but I managed to find a reseller on ebay with decent shipping prices to France.

brantlew wrote:Have you viewed any content yet through the lens/screen system? I'd like to hear your impressions once you get to that point. There are some SBS warped images and videos posted around here that you could check out.

Yes, I have, here are my impressions (from Crysis 2):

(1) The resolution is low, very low. To give you a rough idea, imagine this pic http://bit.ly/OwwKhc stretched over your whole field of view. Even though individual pixels are not visible if you use a diffuser, everything lacks detail because there is only so much information you can pack in 512k pixels. Distant objects fade away into a soup of pixels.

(2) The feeling of immersion is incredible, even without head tracking!

(3) The stereoscopic effect is subtle but pleasant.

(4) Head tracking will mitigate the resolution issue a bit, at least for objects in the vicinity of the player, but clearly seeing and identifying distant objects will require a LCD panel with a higher resolution.

What would be cool is if the Rift had interchangeable optics so you could view the screen in 1280x800 monoscopic. With 6DOF tracking it may be imersive enough just with motion parallax,etc. Would also be a good option for "3d blind" folks.

Brandon9271 wrote:What would be cool is if the Rift had interchangeable optics so you could view the screen in 1280x800 monoscopic. With 6DOF tracking it may be imersive enough just with motion parallax,etc. Would also be a good option for "3d blind" folks.

I want to try that, do you know what kind of lenses I would need?

rfurlan wrote:(2) The feeling of immersion is incredible, even without head tracking!

(3) The stereoscopic effect is subtle but pleasant.

I am excited all over again. Just wait till you get the head tracking. The stereo effect just blew away everything else that I have experienced.

rfurlan wrote:

Brandon9271 wrote:What would be cool is if the Rift had interchangeable optics so you could view the screen in 1280x800 monoscopic. With 6DOF tracking it may be imersive enough just with motion parallax,etc. Would also be a good option for "3d blind" folks.

I want to try that, do you know what kind of lenses I would need?

Maybe lenses with less magnification? That's purely speculation. I really have no idea. Have you tried it with the optics you have now just without center divider? I don't imagine it would work too well that way.

SinSilla made a HMD using the same screen.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 3&start=45
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 3&start=60

Also, read the first page of that thread I linked, funny how things change.

Palmertech used that screen to modify a mrg2.2, the lens he used is decribed on this forum somewhere, but you can find that one yourself!

EDIT- found it by accident looking for something else.
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=11970

bobv5 wrote:Also, read the first page of that thread I linked, funny how things change.

Wow, that's hilarious...and also sort of amazing. He went from newb to addict to expert in like 3 years.
That would be funny to post first threads/posts from several of the long time members. I wonder how far back you would have to go to find cybereality's first post?

I think it's carved into a stone slab somewhere. ALso Brantlew, didn't you come here for something about a robot?

Yeah, here's my own little wall of shame...

first post: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 745#p63933
first thread: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... ence+Robot

I took a look around for an alternative IMU because the shipping costs to europe for the hillcrest FSRK-USB-2 are astronomical.

I'll try the '9 DoF Razor IMU' https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10736 which i ordered here: http://www.watterott.com/de/9-DoF-Razor-IMU

Demo: http://vimeo.com/32898673
The latency looks ok.

The design and the firmware are open source.

Jotschi wrote:I'll try the '9 DoF Razor IMU

That's a nice little tracker, plus it's also supported by FreePIE, so you can use it for mouse emulation without writing any code.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... =45#p73418

https://github.com/AndersMalmgren/FreePIE/wiki

Wow, talk about a blast from the past. Amazing how things have grown in such a short period of time.

Here is the oldest post of mine that I can find, as you can see I hit the ground running (never a newb, just new):
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 7701#p7701

However I believe my actual first post was regarding an adult 3D site and Neil deleted the thread, LOL!

Update:

(1) The diameter of the lenses limit the effective FOV. After mounting the lenses on a faceplate, the FOV is significantly narrowed because you can't get close enough to see the whole screen anymore (plus lots of pixels are wasted outside the visible area).
(2) I tried replacing the 7x aspherics with a pair of plano-convex 43mm diameter, 77mm focal length - the result: clear (readable) corners, more useable pixels, lower total FOV (you can see the corners of the screen) but still a huge useable FOV (considering that you can only get so close to the faceplate comfortably). 

Conclusion: the FOV2GO 7x aspherics might not be the best choice for a comfortable HMD.

Can anyone suggest other alternative lenses with a diameter >40mm and at least 5x magnification?

I don't know how magnification is calculated but you can check the following lenses :

http://www.optolife.com/singlet_lens/A293.html
http://www.optolife.com/singlet_lens/A136.html

but take into account that if you use lenses with a big diameter, you will not be able to align the centers of your eyes with the optical centers of the lenses (unless you manage to cut them to make room for your nose)

rfurlan wrote:Can anyone suggest other alternative lenses with a diameter >40mm and at least 5x magnification?

50mm: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-pocket-loupe ... 588ccf9864

foisi wrote:I don't know how magnification is calculated but you can check the following lenses :

http://www.optolife.com/singlet_lens/A293.html
http://www.optolife.com/singlet_lens/A136.html

but take into account that if you use lenses with a big diameter, you will not be able to align the centers of your eyes with the optical centers of the lenses (unless you manage to cut them to make room for your nose)

Thanks Foisi!

A diameter between 40 to 45mm is ideal, 50mm would be terrific if we can make it fit.

This project is making me reconsider my need for a nose...

PalmerTech wrote:

rfurlan wrote:Can anyone suggest other alternative lenses with a diameter >40mm and at least 5x magnification?

50mm: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-pocket-loupe ... 588ccf9864

Thanks Palmer, ordering it right now!

By the way, you are a HERO!

Currently looking for adjustable head mounting options, does anyone know of a cheap alternative for something like this:

http://www.bodyarmoroutlet.com/content- ... 2_300.html
http://www.airsoftextreme.com/store/ind ... ts_id=6446

Note: parts list on page #1 updated

rfurlan wrote:Currently looking for adjustable head mounting options, does anyone know of a cheap alternative for something like this:

http://www.bodyarmoroutlet.com/content- ... 2_300.html
http://www.airsoftextreme.com/store/ind ... ts_id=6446

These guys make an awesome high quality product:
http://www.oaktreegroupllc.com/html/fibre_optic.html
The one with the adjustable browband was around $50 years ago when I first started my own hmd design. Ratchet adjustment on top and back make for a perfect fit.

There was a lot of experimentation with comfort mods for the HMZ-T1. Check out this huge thread on AVS forums:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1371946/sony- ... ted-thread

Particularly cheap and effective is the welding helmet without the face mask.

Google "welding helmet replacement strap"

The consensus is that some over the head strap is needed (though Oculus seems to be moving away from this). This design seems to be popular for comfort:

http://www.blazin3d.com/catalog/item/80 ... 095948.htm

Thanks for the parts list. What diffuser are you using?

On the cheap

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290757835392?redirect=mobile

BTW what diffuser material did you use? Sounds like a cool idea I'd like to give a try myself on my own design.

rmcclelland wrote:Google "welding helmet replacement strap"

Thank you, very helpful!

rmcclelland wrote:What diffuser are you using?

I extracted it from an old laptop screen

Brandon9271 wrote:On the cheap
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290757835392?redirect=mobile

Awesome Brandon, thank you!