Meant to be Seen

I am really interested in your thoughts concerning the question mentioned above. I own an Optoma HD33 Full HD 3D Beamer, a Sony HMZ-T1 and a Samsung 2233rz 22” 3D monitor.

When I got my HMZ-T1 first I felt like being in heaven and instantly prefered the Sony HMZ over my Optoma HD33 projector (although Full-HD 3D gaming is only possible in 720p due to the HDMI/Nvidia 3D TV limitations).
I absolutely love the huge picture, the rich colours and the true black of my HMZ-T1 and I also modded the device so I can wear it comfortably for hours.
Being an absolute 3D-enthusiast I also love the flawless ghosting-free 3D on the HMZ in conjunction with the sheer size of the screen.
I really thought the HMZ would be my final choice concerning 3D immersion.

Unfortunately the HMZ-T1 has one big downside for me. Concerning 3D I am all about good depth and pop-out effects in particular. When I play a game on my 22” Samsung 2233rz 3D-monitor (consider that model being one of the very first 120Hz 3D monitors with excessive ghosting) I just can’t help but I witness a much more stunning 3D experience. Since that old 3D monitor is just 22” I don’t have the huge HMZ-picture-size but somehow the WOW-factor especially in the pop-out department is just bigger.

Much has been said about the HMZ having less pop-out and we all know that this is just due to the fact that the HMZ-picture doesn’t have a clearly identifiable frame from which objects that come towards you would be percepted as pop-outs. So while the pop-out is there you just don’t identify it as such because your eyes have no frame they could reference to. On the one hand this is positive because the HMZ really puts you into the action, so you experience a very natural 3D effect. But on the other hand – as many other users – I miss the WOW factor because I really love those pop-out effects.

I spent hours to convince me of the superiority of the HMZ 3D taking the rich colours, the huge screen the more natural 3D and all that into account but I can’t help…..the “monitor 3D” with all its pop-out and glorious depth perception (yes I already did the 3D Vision depth hack for the HMZ to get more separation) impresses me more.

I am really contemplating now if a 3D-Vision-Surround Setup could be the right choice for me. I know it is really expensive but I think that could really be the most immersive way to enjoy 3D today. Sitting really close to 3 X 27” 3D monitors should even come close to the HMZ in the perceived picture-size department. In all other aspects (ok, it will not be totally ghosting free) the experience should surpass the HMZ 3D experience. I would be able to game in 1080p 3D, I would get those amazing depth- and pop-out effects the HMZ is lacking and the grade of immersion should also match the HMZ if not even surpassing it due to the 3 monitors that literally surround you.

To cut a long story short: Is there anyone here who has experienced one of the HMDs (Sony HMZ-T1 or SMD 1080) AND who has also seen a 3D Vision Surround Setup in action.

Which one wins overall and why?

Don't forget the possibility of head-tracking with an HMD which adds (in my opinion) and even bigger and more immersive "wow" factor than stereoscopic viewing does.

I wonder if the focus distance is the factor here. When sitting at your monitor, you're only a couple of feet away from it. With the head-set, the focus distance is usually set at 10 feet or so. Some googling doesn't seem to reveal any diopter adjustment, so I don't suppose there's any way to easily adjust that for the Sony (aside from wearing reading glasses or something similar).

There's also the issue of 3D software configuration. Nominally, the generated images correspond to the monitor setup, such that if a virtual object is at the monitor's distance from you, there will be no disparity in the images. Change the monitor setup, and things feel like they're scaled differently. This "convergence distance" should be adjustable, but each game or 3D software may do it differently, assuming it's even possible.

Yeah, I made a similar thread not too long ago about a lack of depth on HMDs. Now, don't get me wrong, HMDs can be really amazing for a proper VR setup (ie head-tracking, application support, etc.). It really is a next-generation experience. But if you are just playing a normal game without head-tracking (or fancy controllers) then really a 3D monitor provides a more "wow!" experience. Not necessarily more immersive but I feel more impressive.

For a desktop monitor I think 27" is a good size as it fills a decent amount of FOV while still being fully within your eye's stereo overlap. In a living room setting (where you sit further away) I think around 60" or even higher is optimal. I also have an Optoma 3D projector (GT750) and the 3D on that is nothing short of amazing. But even so, I think something about a 27" monitor has more "pop" than the projector. Doesn't make much sense, but its true.

Now, I haven't tried 3DVS yet, but I imagine its the best thing in terms of immersion. Certainly you will get a *much* higher FOV with 3x27" screens than with any consumer HMD available today. Probably even better than the Rift. If you sit close enough it will completely fill the horizontal FOV. Should be pretty cool actually. Just keep in mind only the center screen will really be fully 3D, as there is not much stereo effect in your peripheral vision. You also have to consider the cons: lowered performance, lower game compatibility, cost, desk space, etc.

I'm one of those that do not like pop out effects, it ruins the immerse feeling. To achieve immerseseness the image has to be as close as real life as possible, and pop out is not in that equation

Thats why I like movies like Avatar or Prometheus with close to zero pop out, most directors use way to much pop out

Hi guys. I've looked for a solution to use a virtual surround setup. If you could headtrack panning of the virtual monitors and the game to deliver 3* horizontal resolution it would give us separated view from mouse in most FPS. Still aiming with the mouse, but possible to quickly scan the surroundings with your head. I've come across a few "virtual desktop" programs. So I can receive this while in desktop mode, but I haven't got close to trick a fullscreen game into a wider resolution than my native monitor or my HMZ. Anyone dealt with this before or got any other ideas on how make this work?

Thats a very interesting idea Iddlinden. Can enough games be made to render a high enough virtual FOV, to make it worthwhile? You'd need quite a high game FOV, as otherwise it will feel restrictive, and less like true head motion.

@lddlinden: That would be cool. However I don't know of any software that lets you do that.

I imagin that for games like BF3, FPS with mouse aim, this will be one step ahead at least. Since you will still aim and move around with the mouse. Perhaps only a virtual dual monitor setup is needed. If the game belives you are running Nvidia surround or equal I guess it would work exactly like it would on multiple monitors. My guess is that even in games with no support for headtracking you end up with less of a tunnelvision if only you can look at the sides and view 10% or more space. No one with driver knowledge that could think of a way to write a virtual monitor driver with pan function? Either as use with head tracking or for gamers without HMD or tracking. A simple keyboard or joystick hat input that gives you the option to still aim where you´d guess the enemies will turn up, while looking sightly in another direction.

lddlinden wrote:If you could headtrack panning of the virtual monitors and the game to deliver 3* horizontal resolution it would give us separated view from mouse in most FPS. Still aiming with the mouse, but possible to quickly scan the surroundings with your head. ... Anyone dealt with this before or got any other ideas on how make this work?

ARMAII has support for independent head tracking and aiming at least if you use a TrackIR. I'm not sure if the game supports 3D monitors though, but it seems to support triple head gaming with TrackIR at least.

hast wrote:

lddlinden wrote:If you could headtrack panning of the virtual monitors and the game to deliver 3* horizontal resolution it would give us separated view from mouse in most FPS. Still aiming with the mouse, but possible to quickly scan the surroundings with your head. ... Anyone dealt with this before or got any other ideas on how make this work?

ARMAII has support for independent head tracking and aiming at least if you use a TrackIR. I'm not sure if the game supports 3D monitors though, but it seems to support triple head gaming with TrackIR at least.

I tried a quick VR test with Arma2 and a Sparkfun IMU, used FreePIE to output FreeTrack to Arma. The trick is that armas headtracking is absolute BUT its relative to the aim, so if you dont use a mouse and your body in a fixed position you need to calculate the center yaw and use that to recalibrate the signals before sending them to Arma.

Worked really nice and was really cool, but the 3D support in Arma2 is horrible, lots of artifacts

you know what I'm always reading on reviews about the sony hmz is that it's to heavy for the forehead but I was thinking I could put a boxing head band on while having a wrist strap taped to the forehead pad to lift all the pressure off, does anyone else think this will work because I'm wanting to buy the sony hmz in a few weeks.