Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

[Okta]

I ordered the usb dance mat a week ago. To use it with the rift i will have to make the WASD layout rotate with my facing so front is always W etc, not to sure how to achieve that...

[MSat]

Just make sure you don't turn your body!

[cybereality]

@Okta: I did the whole dance mat thing years ago (probably mentioned it before). Its interesting, but you ultimately have to "fake it" a little (ie walking in place) for the full effect. I am thinking now it would be better to dismantle the mat and turn them into cyber-socks. If you had a sensor at the tip and also the ball of your foot, you could be able to detect if you are walking forward or back. A GlovePIE/FreePIE script should be able to remap the WASD using the head-tracker. Might actually work decent.

Also, who wants to bet the Rift dev kits will arrive on Christmas morning: December 25th, 2012?

[Okta]

Yes Cyber i remember you posting about it way back and that is where the inspiration came from. I had considered cutting it up also. It looks quite small so i was considering the possibility of getting 2 or more, cutting the pads out and sticking them around a larger rubber matt like a 1 metre jigsaw edge gym matt. Maybe we should move this to an existing ODT thread and share some more ideas.

[MSat]

Also, who wants to bet the Rift dev kits will arrive on Christmas morning: December 25th, 2012?

It would be the BEST CHRISTMAS EVER. But I don't mind getting my presents early.

[Mind]

Also, who wants to bet the Rift dev kits will arrive on Christmas morning: December 25th, 2012?

I bet against it. In my country, the postman will not work on a holiday. Also it would suck, because most people must visit their relatives on Christmas. Imagine that you just got your Rift at home and must sit the whole day with your boring grandma. And the next day, same thing with your other grandma. And all you want to do is playing doom3. I would say: worst chrismas ever.
I hope that it comes early december, but i would not be surprised if it will come in january.

[Namielus]

because most people must visit their relatives on Christmas.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I am an adult and do whatever I want with my time.
Generally, I don't think "most people" on this forum live with their moms and dads anymore.
But anyway, not being willing to even set aside one day for your poor old grandma,
so they have to force you? You would rather just to get a few more hours doom3, than spend one single day with your grandmas? You sounded almost cruel there.

WHERE IS YOUR SOUL!?

hahahaha

Anyway, to be serious and a little sentimental.. (And this will obviously vary from family to family.) But!
I think many grandmas and grandpas are lonely and you can often make their entire day just with a phonecall. Remember after hanging up from your phone call, that might have been boring for you, they will have an entire day of happiness because somebody cared.

Bring the rift with a laptop, and show them Dear Esther to blow their minds! (please, not doom)

[marbas]

@Namielus

...When proper AR is finally here, everyone and their grandma is going to see how great it is...

I agree with Palmer. Grandma and grandpa ain't ready for VR just jet! haha

[Namielus]

Duly Noted, I see your point. Personally, I simply cant resist putting my grandma into Dear Esther, or another quiet game when I visit her for Christmas. I think she will love it.

Maybe I can show her the Andes mountains in Outerra? I think not just for grandmas, but for people in general you should do individual considerations anyway. People are different.

[cybereality]

I bet against it. In my country, the postman will not work on a holiday.

Well who said anything about the postman? The Rifts are being delivered by Saint Nick himself!!!!

[Mind]

because most people must visit their relatives on Christmas.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I am an adult and do whatever I want with my time.
Generally, I don't think "most people" on this forum live with their moms and dads anymore.

I am also an adult with over 40 years and don't live with with mom and dad. But normaly you still have some social responsibilities if you not an total bum-exit. You don't need to live with your mom and dad to celebrate Christmas with them. Christmas is for most people a familiy holiday. And if you have kids on your own, it is normal that you celebrate the 24 with your own family, and visit the grandparents on 25 and 26.

But anyway, not being willing to even set aside one day for your poor old grandma,
so they have to force you? You would rather just to get a few more hours doom3, than spend one single day with your grandmas? You sounded almost cruel there.

If you got the Rift in your mail and can't test it, i bet for most people here in the forum, it would be like tourture to sit with grandma the whole day.

Anyway, to be serious and a little sentimental.. (And this will obviously vary from family to family.) But!
I think many grandmas and grandpas are lonely and you can often make their entire day just with a phonecall. Remember after hanging up from your phone call, that might have been boring for you, they will have an entire day of happiness because somebody cared.

I agree with you.

Bring the rift with a laptop, and show them Dear Esther to blow their minds! (please, not doom)

I am pretty sure that this is not a good idea. With the developer rift you can easily make movements that let you get real sick. I don't think that this is a good idea to risk it on Christmas for non VR addicts.

[Namielus]

Mind, Im sorry, I guess I just misunderstood you. I read it as the typical teenager that gets mad when parents make them visit the grandparents for holidays.

Now I understand what you meant. Must visit family as in, the right thing to do.
And I agree, if I somehow find myself away from the Rift when it arrives, It will be torture.

My grandmother is 70, she lives on her own and takes care of all daily chores herself.
Her health is pretty good.
I am confident she could at least try it, with my supervision.
I have spoken to her and she even sounds interested.

I am a major tech geek, and she is often amazed of the little "mysteries" I bring.
She has enjoyed the eyetoy, and playstation move so far.
I would be really sad if she would not even be able to give it a quick try.

PS: I am not personally talking about christmas eve and so on, just the general holiday season. I will be staying there for a week.

[cybereality]

If I hooked my grandma up with a Rift and DOOM3 I think she just may have a heart attack!

[MSat]

My grandma has way more Doom3 frags than your grandma!

[TheRealistWord]

I was actually seriously considering saving the Rift for myself as a Christmas present if it arrives before Christmas (which I'm really hoping it does!). Just wrap it up, stick it under the tree, and feel like a little kid again as I resist the urge of ripping it open everytime I walk by!

But talking about grandmas and Rifts made me think of something that I've thought about for quite awhile with HMD's - using them for therapeutic purposes. Grandma stuck in the nursing home and never got to take that trip to the grand canyon? Grab a laptop and a Rift, some SBS 3D footage of a fly through of the grand canyon with binaural recordings, and watch as grandma's mouth drops as she starts exclaiming, "MY GOODNESS! THIS IS MUCH BETTER THAN FRUIT CAKES!"... I know it's been discussed over and over around here and other forums, but I still think it's an awesome idea with a lot of potential, using HMD's for healing purposes.

And while on the subject, how about attempting to rig a rift with two wide FOV cameras for stereoscopic 3D video, a pair of high quality field condensor microphones positioned near each ear for realistic binaural audio recordings, and some sort of interface that can sync everything with the touch of a button; walk around exploring locations, capturing video that can be shared with anyone else who has a Rift so they can also take virtual tours of distant locations. Nothing that hasn't been thought about or discussed before, but I'm still excited about the potential!

[Namielus]

Sounds cool , this might not be the right thread but if you want realistic binaural audio they need to be _inside_ the ear, or have something shaped like an ear around it.


I have tried making both things out of cheap materials with different results. One of those things I might write about here soon.


Some molded rubber or silicone ears with exaggerated features would do well, and you could
mount them like reverse headphones. (sort of)

It makes a big difference.

[Mind]

But talking about grandmas and Rifts made me think of something that I've thought about for quite awhile with HMD's - using them for therapeutic purposes. Grandma stuck in the nursing home and never got to take that trip to the grand canyon? Grab a laptop and a Rift, some SBS 3D footage of a fly through of the grand canyon with binaural recordings, and watch as grandma's mouth drops as she starts exclaiming, "MY GOODNESS! THIS IS MUCH BETTER THAN FRUIT CAKES!"... I know it's been discussed over and over around here and other forums, but I still think it's an awesome idea with a lot of potential, using HMD's for healing purposes.

I think that many interesting places like the Tadsch Mahal or the the pyramids will be available in VR. But a 3d-fligth is not really VR. In VR you want to be able to see everything on your own speed. You must build the places as computermodels with textures and light. But with laserscanners and other tools we are able to be as acurate as we want.

And while on the subject, how about attempting to rig a rift with two wide FOV cameras for stereoscopic 3D video, a pair of high quality field condensor microphones positioned near each ear for realistic binaural audio recordings, and some sort of interface that can sync everything with the touch of a button; walk around exploring locations, capturing video that can be shared with anyone else who has a Rift so they can also take virtual tours of distant locations. Nothing that hasn't been thought about or discussed before, but I'm still excited about the potential!

I would hate it in VR when i have no headtracking. VR is so immersive because of the tracking. A stereoscopic 3d video is a really poor thing in VR. In good VR you are able to change your view like you want. If my viewpoint chances because YOU look in a differend location, than the information between my ear and my eyes differ and i can get motion sick real quick. Not a good idea. This is something that you want on a virtual theater screen in VR, where you have your own headtracking, but are able to see the 3d effects.
If you want to explore distant places in VR, the must be modeled in 3d.

[greenknight]

Mind, when did you see a 3d video in VR?

What if it was high field of view? Was it not? Imagine really awesome music videos that totally immerse you in the sound. That sounds neat I think.

[TheRealistWord]

if you want realistic binaural audio they need to be _inside_ the ear, or have something shaped like an ear around it.

Oooh, great idea! Before I always used to just tape two mics to a styrofoam mannequin head, it seemed to serve its purpose well, but setting it up instead with a pair of molded silicone ears or something seems like it'd be much more accurate. Do you have any recordings up online anywhere?

I would hate it in VR when i have no headtracking. VR is so immersive because of the tracking. A stereoscopic 3d video is a really poor thing in VR. In good VR you are able to change your view like you want. If my viewpoint chances because YOU look in a differend location, than the information between my ear and my eyes differ and i can get motion sick real quick. Not a good idea.

I agree that watching immersive 3D videos where the camera angle is frequently changing while you remain completely still could probably cause a vertigo-type effect, but there might be some solutions. There's been a few cameras capable of capturing multiple angles at once and stitching them together, allowing the user to actually interactively pan around the scene in all directions. For example, check this one out: http://www.electrictv.com/?p=6159 I think you'd just have to somehow sync the head tracking in the Rift with the panning in the software and that might work. And also, Soarin' at Disney World... from what I can remember, I don't think it was just a straight fly through in one direction - I think the camera turned and twisted and stuff, and since the HUGE screen occupied nearly your entire FOV, it was incredibly immersive. But I didn't have any problems with that (though I could definitely see how some might get motion sickness).

Imagine really awesome music videos that totally immerse you in the sound. That sounds neat I think.

Hehe, I remember when OK Go released their music video in 3D for the 3DS. When the Rift launches, I better be dancing right next to Michael Jackson in Thriller Which made me think of another thing:

Youtube currently supports 3D videos in a bunch of different formats (anaglyph, SBS)... it'd definitely be interesting if they added Rift support for distorting the video for the Rift lens. Don't really think they would, but one can dream Or even... Programming a plugin for After Effects that allows you to add the distortion to the video as an adjustment layer, rendering it out with the distortion baked into the video. I'm sure everyone's already thinking of these ideas!

[Mind]

Mind, when did you see a 3d video in VR? What if it was high field of view? Was it not?

I did not, but i think i know enough about VR to know that it will suck if you have a fixed viewpoint that is is the camera. VR is so believable because it behaves like you know it from the real world. If you move your head, the world change exactly like you would expect it in reality. Watching a 3d movie in VR behaves not like the real world. You can't change your head like you want it. The viewpoint changes like the moviemaker wanted it. A recipe for motion sickness.

Imagine really awesome music videos that totally immerse you in the sound. That sounds neat I think.

Look at one music video that you have in mind and see that they have cuts every few seconds and then the viewpoint changes. I bet with you, that this is something you don't want to have in VR. Taking away the control about the head is a big NoNo in VR. But you will see if this is right in a few month.

[Mind]

if you want realistic binaural audio they need to be _inside_ the ear, or have something shaped like an ear around it.

Oooh, great idea! Before I always used to just tape two mics to a styrofoam mannequin head, it seemed to serve its purpose well, but setting it up instead with a pair of molded silicone ears or something seems like it'd be much more accurate. Do you have any recordings up online anywhere?

Same problem like with the fixed viewpoint. You need to calculate the 3d-Audio on the fly and not give a fixed headposition in a fixed point of time. But this is no problem. We know how audio behaves in a 3d space. The math for it is there. And ears are much easier to fool than eyes.

I would hate it in VR when i have no headtracking. VR is so immersive because of the tracking. A stereoscopic 3d video is a really poor thing in VR. In good VR you are able to change your view like you want. If my viewpoint chances because YOU look in a differend location, than the information between my ear and my eyes differ and i can get motion sick real quick. Not a good idea.

I agree that watching immersive 3D videos where the camera angle is frequently changing while you remain completely still could probably cause a vertigo-type effect, but there might be some solutions. There's been a few cameras capable of capturing multiple angles at once and stitching them together, allowing the user to actually interactively pan around the scene in all directions. For example, check this one out: http://www.electrictv.com/?p=6159 I think you'd just have to somehow sync the head tracking in the Rift with the panning in the software and that might work.

Electrictv will not work in VR. The problem is, that the brain knows pretty good how reality should behave. The visual system is an expert in seeing reality. If you look on the "360 degree multi-camera interactive demo video", you can see that it is distorted every time when you move the direction of the camera. This is not a big problem in normal view, but in virtual reality it would suck. You would see the distortions with every movement your head will make. It would be better that have only one viewpoint, but is still miles away from good VR.
Look at the talks from John Carmack. Even if your eyes are a little bit of their normal trajectory, your brain will register that something is not correct. They talk that you should even be able to change the interocular distance of the VR to your real interocular distance to make it more real for your brain.

And also, Soarin' at Disney World... from what I can remember, I don't think it was just a straight fly through in one direction - I think the camera turned and twisted and stuff, and since the HUGE screen occupied nearly your entire FOV, it was incredibly immersive. But I didn't have any problems with that (though I could definitely see how some might get motion sickness).

As an non american i was never in Disney World. But let me guess. It is not only a movie, but a simulator where the seats move syncron with the movie? So you have the same information from your eyes and your ears. No wonder that this is immersive. But this is something that you will not have with a normal 3D-Movie with a fix viewpoint in the Rift.

[DragonM]

As an non american i was never in Disney World. But let me guess. It is not only a movie, but a simulator where the seats move syncron with the movie? So you have the same information from your eyes and your ears. No wonder that this is immersive. But this is something that you will not have with a normal 3D-Movie with a fix viewpoint in the Rift.

I haven't been in the "ride" at Disney World, but I have been in another where the platform moves in a way that is supposed to match the video. It made me sick. Riding an actual roller coaster does not make me sick. Mismatched vision and motion is a sure-fire recipe for vertigo and those mostly-stationary platform "rides" are pretty badly mismatched.

[MrGreen]

Palmer, Dykus, someone! Throw us a frickin' bone here! A little something that'll keep us busy for a while.

We're running out of things to obsess over!

[brantlew]

I think the best antidote for Rift compulsion is to join the "DIY Rift" crowd. You can funnel your obsession into something creative, plus you will get to use an "approximate" Rift way before December.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=15247

[Okta]

I think a good way to channel the Rift anticipation until delivery it to use the time to create supplements to the rift like controllers, trackers, software that you and others can use when the Rift arrives.

I have parts ordered for a little project involving arduino and a dance dance revolution mat

[MrGreen]

I think the best antidote for Rift compulsion is to join the "DIY Rift" crowd. You can funnel your obsession into something creative, plus you will get to use an "approximate" Rift way before December.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=15247

Yeah I thought about that but I'm afraid I lack the proper skills and free time.

[brantlew]

Well I can understand about "free-time", but you should look upon it as an opportunity to learn a few skills.

[mahler]

Is this a new prototype?
Or just a bad quality picture of a version already demonstrated...



https://twitter.com/NaomiKyle/status/24 ... 76/photo/1

I've seen four prototype-versions so far:

• Carmack-demo
• CliffyB-demo
• Black duct tape
• Red duct tape

I noticed that the first was about 1-2 inches wide, others were about 3-4 inches wide.
Not sure why this has changed. Perhaps the top-part was moved behind the screen.
It could also be that I'm confused that some are actually the same prototype, but with rearranged electronics and added duct tape.

[brantlew]

I wonder what the reason was for moving more mass to the front of the unit. It seems like the opposite of what you want to do. More mass on top, next to the forehead seems more sensible.

[mysticeti]

SWAG: Ventilation? Perhaps they're trying to allow heat to vent through the top somehow and having "stuff" up there was counter productive?

What are the most common (though still fairly rare) complaints about the Rift?

• Motion Sickness
  Sweaty nose/face
  Eyelashes hit the lenses

I think I'd just trim my eyelashes if I had that problem.

[MrGreen]

SWAG: Ventilation? Perhaps they're trying to allow heat to vent through the top somehow and having "stuff" up there was counter productive?

What are the most common (though still fairly rare) complaints about the Rift?

• Motion Sickness
  Sweaty nose/face
  Eyelashes hit the lenses

I think I'd just trim my eyelashes if I had that problem.

This one worries me quite a bit. I'm probably enough of an enthusiast to get used to it but will the average gamer?

[danielbln]

I hope the motion sickness will go away once the Rift gains absolute tracking in the consumer version. But the dev model, well, there are quite a lot of reports of motion sickness, from all the reports I've read/videos I've seen I'd say 1 out of 4 people report quite severe motion sickness after using it.

[MrGreen]

I hope the motion sickness will go away once the Rift gains absolute tracking in the consumer version. But the dev model, well, there are quite a lot of reports of motion sickness, from all the reports I've read/videos I've seen I'd say 1 out of 4 people report quite severe motion sickness after using it.

I'm pretty sure I've seen/read every single preview out there and while I'd be hesitant to use the word severe, I'd say pretty much all of them at least felt a little funny. This doesn't quite compute with the numbers (5%?) the Oculus guys have been repeating.

Anyway, if Palmer can stay 12 hours straight in the damn thing so can I!

[mysticeti]

I hoping that at least some of the folks who experienced motion sickness felt ill specifically because they were trying things they shouldn't, e.g. swaying side to side, in an effort to "put the oculus rift through it's paces". That, and instinctively dodging to evade fireballs.

Me? I'll strap my torso to a concrete pole if I have to.

[danielbln]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'll keep the Rift strapped to my face even if I have to sit in the bathtub for it. Let's just hope we'll get used to the MS in the dev kit and it'll be even better in the consumer version.

[mysticeti]

New idea: Weight Watchers VR Diet Program. Anytime you feel hungry just strap on the Rift and fire up our software. Our rendering of scantily clad morbidly obese people complete with our patented Motion Mismatch Mania guarantees your appetite will be completely suppressed for at least 3 hours after using our product. <insert spewing disclaimer here>

[Dycus]

Is this a new prototype?
Or just a bad quality picture of a version already demonstrated...

https://twitter.com/NaomiKyle/status/24 ... 76/photo/1

I've seen four prototype-versions so far:

• Carmack-demo
• CliffyB-demo
• Black duct tape
• Red duct tape

I noticed that the first was about 1-2 inches wide, others were about 3-4 inches wide.
Not sure why this has changed. Perhaps the top-part was moved behind the screen.
It could also be that I'm confused that some are actually the same prototype, but with rearranged electronics and added duct tape.

Dangit, I told him not to put Oculus stickers on that one... the matte black looked so nice! And what was that picture taken with, a potato!?

That's a new one Palmer and I made. Palmer made most of the case, and I did the extension cable and control box. Best one we've ever made! No visible tracker, the HDMI-LVDS adapter is all hidden inside, a nice, flat front and a good tape job to finish it all off. You'll probably be seeing more of that one.

Ugh, the red duct tape one... I had to throw that together quickly and it didn't turn out so well. Red tape was all I had to block out light, and the board fell off rather quickly, and the USB connector for the tracker broke off (not my fault). I revamped that one, it now has a trimmed control board, nice black tape, and wires soldered straight to the tracker. You might see that one.

As for why they're getting thicker - no idea. It's probably an optical illusion, considering all these demo models are using the same screen and focal length. The ski goggles make it look a lot longer, that's for sure.

[greenknight]

Mind, when did you see a 3d video in VR? What if it was high field of view? Was it not?

I did not, but i think i know enough about VR to know that it will suck if you have a fixed viewpoint that is is the camera. VR is so believable because it behaves like you know it from the real world. If you move your head, the world change exactly like you would expect it in reality. Watching a 3d movie in VR behaves not like the real world. You can't change your head like you want it. The viewpoint changes like the moviemaker wanted it. A recipe for motion sickness.

Imagine really awesome music videos that totally immerse you in the sound. That sounds neat I think.

Look at one music video that you have in mind and see that they have cuts every few seconds and then the viewpoint changes. I bet with you, that this is something you don't want to have in VR. Taking away the control about the head is a big NoNo in VR. But you will see if this is right in a few month.

yeah ok. I get motion sick on small boats, so maybe you are right.

[Enzo]

I am not sure how 3D movies would work in VR, however 2d or 3d would be great if it could be implemented. Movies could look awesome in the near future with a high res 2.0 consumer Rift. Imagine that the Rift envelopes you in a virtual IMAX theater where you can choose to sit wherever you want and experience the movie the way you want, or imagine instead of having a 65” TV at home you just grab your rift and simulated whatever size TV you want in your virtual living room. John Carmack in a previous post mentioned the potential viability of implementing movies in VR and I for one look forward to that future! VR is finally starting to take root and I am excited by all the innumerable possibilities!

[Namielus]

Imagine that the Rift envelopes you in a virtual IMAX theater where you can choose to sit wherever you want and experience the movie the way you want, or imagine instead of having a 65” TV at home you just grab your rift and simulated whatever size TV you want in your virtual living room.

I am working on exactly that, I have the room working and video texture streaming, but it only works with ogg files.
But I am hoping to scrape together enough money to hire some freelancer who can help me achieve streaming
_any_ content you want including live streams, and supporting multiplayer so you can meet other people there or
do conferences/lectures etc.