Oculus "Rift" : An open-source HMD for Kickstarter

[econik]

It will really come down to each individual. People that are prone to motion sickness ie. they can't be in a car for more then a few minutes without stopping or just looking at a fast moving FPS on a monitor makes them sick then it's likely they will hardly be able to use the RIFT at all while someone that doesn't feel the hint of sickness even after 10 hours on a ship on the roughest sea will probably be able to use it for quite a while.

I suspect it definately wont be hours with the devkit though even for people that don't get motion sicness due to the lack of positional tracking but once it has positional tracking I don't think most ppl will have a problem using it for a very long time.

I don't know about other people but look at the old VR arcade games. They didn't have as large a FOV which would of helped in this case but they also didn't have positional tracking (the ones I played anyway) had quite slow responding tracking not to mention just a pretty low frame rate in general yet even after half an hour in one of those I didn't even feel the slighest "hmm my tummy isn't 100% atm".

But i'd think the majority of people using the devkit wouldn't seem to feel sick so quickly like the guy in that video but i'd still say after maybe 20+ mins they might feel like they need to take a break. After all it's been demo'd so many times the last 6 months and there have not been many people reporting that they felt sick using it and they were using it longer then the 60seconds or whatever that guy did.

Yea, ok..I'm not as freaked out anymore. The March cometh!

[Owen]

I think it will depend more on the game than the idividual. Even those demos they are showing in Unity and UDK now have super fast acceleration which I think is really bad for VR. And I doubt many people would be able to handle standard FPS move speeds in VR for very long.

[Dycus]

From the Kickstarter comments page:

Over at the MTBS3D forums Dycus (part of the Oculus team) has stated the reason the 7 inch dev kit has not been demoed yet is because they have not completed integrating their current demos for it. In other words, the 5.6" is tried and tested, and works well. Why show something that isn't ready yet? Dycus projects they will begin demoing the 7 inch around the time of GDC (March 25).

Uh, can anybody find me a source on this? I honestly don't remember saying that. Maybe somebody else said it and he mis-attributed? Or maybe misinterpreted something I said? I'm genuinely confused here. Feels like I'm takin' crazy pills.

Hint: I got a stern talking-to last time I leaked information. So I'm just gonna enjoy watching you guys fumble around in the dark, guessing about when the next update will or will not be!

Don´t get the guy into trouble. Last thing we need is Oculus "downsizing"

They can't fire me, I'm too valuable, ahahah!
I just don't like being talked to like that. Reminds me of elementary school.

Pffft. From what I can see he's been useless. I think Dycus's salary would better be spent on fancy VR research instead!
Or maybe I'm wrong? Perhaps I'm being too harsh - if you were fill us in on all the exciting stuff you've been up to recently, Dycus, perhaps that might change our opinions!

Oh, okay!

Well, this is a story all about how
My life got flipped, turned upside-down
And I'd like to take a minute, just sit where you are
I'll tell you how I came to work at good-ol' Oculus VR

In Southern California born and raised
On the internet where I spent most of my days
Hanging out with Palmer, relaxin' online
Talking 'bout the modding scene most of the time
When all of a sudden, it was quite a surprise
Palmer had a Kickstarter to organize
Said I could work for him and help VR catch on
And said "You're gonna come with me and my friends to QuakeCon"

... I don't feel like thinking out the rest. And that wasn't really related to what you told me to do, Chicken, but for some reason, the idea popped into my head and I wanted to do it.

[PasticheDonkey]

I think it will depend more on the game than the idividual. Even those demos they are showing in Unity and UDK now have super fast acceleration which I think is really bad for VR. And I doubt many people would be able to handle standard FPS move speeds in VR for very long.

yes stuff that was added to make the experience more dynamic in low FoV needs to be scaled back with a high FoV. speed is one of those since the higher the FoV the more of the world you can see changing quickly in the periphery. altho a lot of modern fps are quite slow since they use real world equivalents so the sense of progression is realistic.

[drifter]

Even those demos they are showing in Unity and UDK now have super fast acceleration which I think is really bad for VR.

Indeed ! Dycus or Cyber, you should spread the word to the demo coders.
You can control the acceleration with the joystick though, but not all testers are usual gamers...

We must take care of fast body accelerations and rotations, Owen you did well by choosing a big slow robots game

About the cybersickness, it's not necessarily correlated with our sensitivity to motion sickness.
About the car for example, I saw a guy sick in a second if ever he stops to watch the road. And besides that he can easily stand long sessions with HMDs (low-FOV HMDs though).

@Dycus
Nice, and it's almost in alexandrines

[KBK]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQeHPnMCKWY[/youtube]
I haven't tried the rift on for myself.. I hope it's even better than the above video.

It's probably a Goo screen. Pretty high odds.

[MSat]

From the Kickstarter comments page:

Over at the MTBS3D forums Dycus (part of the Oculus team) has stated the reason the 7 inch dev kit has not been demoed yet is because they have not completed integrating their current demos for it. In other words, the 5.6" is tried and tested, and works well. Why show something that isn't ready yet? Dycus projects they will begin demoing the 7 inch around the time of GDC (March 25).

Uh, can anybody find me a source on this? I honestly don't remember saying that. Maybe somebody else said it and he mis-attributed? Or maybe misinterpreted something I said? I'm genuinely confused here. Feels like I'm takin' crazy pills.

Of course you don't remember - it's hard to do so under the influence of sodium pentothol followed by lots of alcohol.

Actually, that sounds like a hodgepodge of things that have been stated or speculated by a few people (and maybe cyber?). I guess everyone just likes to throw you under the bus for some reason.

Well, this is a story all about how
My life got flipped, turned upside-down
And I'd like to take a minute, just sit where you are
I'll tell you how I came to work at good-ol' Oculus VR

In Southern California born and raised
On the internet where I spent most of my days
Hanging out with Palmer, relaxin' online
Talking 'bout the modding scene most of the time
When all of a sudden, it was quite a surprise
Palmer had a Kickstarter to organize
Said I could work for him and help VR catch on
And said "You're gonna come with me and my friends to QuakeCon"

Srsly? Ok, that was pretty funny. You would be cool even if you didn't work for Ovr.

[cybereality]

From the Kickstarter comments page:

Over at the MTBS3D forums Dycus (part of the Oculus team) has stated the reason the 7 inch dev kit has not been demoed yet is because they have not completed integrating their current demos for it. In other words, the 5.6" is tried and tested, and works well. Why show something that isn't ready yet? Dycus projects they will begin demoing the 7 inch around the time of GDC (March 25).

Uh, can anybody find me a source on this? I honestly don't remember saying that. Maybe somebody else said it and he mis-attributed? Or maybe misinterpreted something I said? I'm genuinely confused here. Feels like I'm takin' crazy pills.

No, that was my bad. I probably should watch what I say since now I'm being mis-quoted on Kickstarter.

[Dycus]

You gotta realize - you're not allowed to say anything. Took me a bit to learn that, much to the delight of the members here.

[RABID]

Well, this is a story all about how
My life got flipped, turned upside-down
And I'd like to take a minute, just sit where you are
I'll tell you how I came to work at good-ol' Oculus VR

In Southern California born and raised
On the internet where I spent most of my days
Hanging out with Palmer, relaxin' online
Talking 'bout the modding scene most of the time
When all of a sudden, it was quite a surprise
Palmer had a Kickstarter to organize
Said I could work for him and help VR catch on
And said "You're gonna come with me and my friends to QuakeCon"

... I don't feel like thinking out the rest. And that wasn't really related to what you told me to do, Chicken, but for some reason, the idea popped into my head and I wanted to do it.

Now can u post a video of you performing it? You could get some backup dancers in giant rift costumes. I bet u could even. Get DJ jazzy Jeff, he probably needs the work

[Endothermic]

You gotta realize - you're not allowed to say anything. Took me a bit to learn that, much to the delight of the members here.

Nothing to worry about since he never really said anything anyway "I am not sure all the demos have been updated yet, so I think the guys just wanted to show the press something that was tried and true."

"I am not sure all the demos have been update yet" does not equal "the reason the 7 inch dev kit has not been demoed yet is because they have not completed integrating their current demos for it."

He simply said he wasn't sure about all the demos and gave his personal opinion about why "he" thinks you havn't been using the 7", neither one was actually leaking any Oculus information

People really need to learn if you're going to quote what someone said then you need to actually "quote" what they said and not type what you think they were saying otherwise say you only "think" you heard such n such say this or that and not say categorically that they "stated" it.

[Direlight]

Get DJ jazzy Jeff, he probably needs the work

He's doing great it seems.

http://www.djjazzyjeff.com/


Get em' a Rift "Dj Jazzy Jeff Presents: Virtual Beatz"

[geekmaster]

I think it will depend more on the game than the idividual. Even those demos they are showing in Unity and UDK now have super fast acceleration which I think is really bad for VR. And I doubt many people would be able to handle standard FPS move speeds in VR for very long.

yes stuff that was added to make the experience more dynamic in low FoV needs to be scaled back with a high FoV. speed is one of those since the higher the FoV the more of the world you can see changing quickly in the periphery. altho a lot of modern fps are quite slow since they use real world equivalents so the sense of progression is realistic.

Also, studies show that faster movement requires lower latency to prevent motion sickness. The latency curve showed 20ms latency requires LESS THAN 100-degrees/sec rotation. For slow rotation speeds you could go up to about 50ms latency. People sensitive to motion sickness may need even shorter latencies. The key is to keep rotation speeds (and perhaps translation speeds as well) slow enough to avoid problems.

In the recent video where the reviewer got motion sickness rather quickly, the video shows that he mostly used the controller to rotate instead of rotating his head. The controller rotation is probably too fast for a non-combative "look around" game, and probably contributed to that motion sickness.

[geekmaster]

[geekmaster]

Get DJ jazzy Jeff, he probably needs the work

He's doing great it seems.

http://www.djjazzyjeff.com/Get em' a Rift "Dj Jazzy Jeff Presents: Virtual Beatz"

It would be even better if he could get the "Fresh Prince" to take time off his next blockbuster movie for a short tour touting the Oculus Rift.

[PasticheDonkey]

In the recent video where the reviewer got motion sickness rather quickly, the video shows that he mostly used the controller to rotate instead of rotating his head. The controller rotation is probably too fast for a non-combative "look around" game, and probably contribute to that motion sickness.

nice catch. i didn't notice that.

[oculusfan]

I think it will depend more on the game than the idividual. Even those demos they are showing in Unity and UDK now have super fast acceleration which I think is really bad for VR. And I doubt many people would be able to handle standard FPS move speeds in VR for very long.

yes stuff that was added to make the experience more dynamic in low FoV needs to be scaled back with a high FoV. speed is one of those since the higher the FoV the more of the world you can see changing quickly in the periphery. altho a lot of modern fps are quite slow since they use real world equivalents so the sense of progression is realistic.

Also, studies show that faster movement requires lower latency to prevent motion sickness. The latency curve showed 20ms latency requires LESS THAN 100-degrees/sec rotation. For slow rotation speeds you could go up to about 50ms latency. People sensitive to motion sickness may need even shorter latencies. The key is to keep rotation speeds (and perhaps translation speeds as well) slow enough to avoid problems.

In the recent video where the reviewer got motion sickness rather quickly, the video shows that he mostly used the controller to rotate instead of rotating his head. The controller rotation is probably too fast for a non-combative "look around" game, and probably contribute to that motion sickness.

They need to add a better control scheme. Or at least somewhat limit what the user can do with the right stick. If right stick causes motion sickness, then it is Oculus' fault if people are getting sick. They will learn very quickly that if your app has a possibility of being used incorrectly, users will find it. I've designed apps before where a user discovers a bug and I'm thinking (why on earth would you use it in that way???). It makes no sense but that is how users are. Even so, you have to take responsibility as the developer and realize that it is never the user's fault. It should have been designed better.

[PasticheDonkey]

sure but you need some time to recognise the problem first before you can fix it. i think oculus have a that's up to the developers mindset anyway. their stuff is just demonstration of integration.

[geekmaster]

... They will learn very quickly that if your app has a possibility of being used incorrectly, users will find it. I've designed apps before where a user discovers a bug and I'm thinking (why on earth would you use it in that way???). It makes no sense but that is how users are. Even so, you have to take responsibility as the developer and realize that it is never the user's fault. It should have been designed better.

Four decades ago, in our University-sponsored hacker club (they supplied the Pizza), we had a sign hanging on the wall:

No system can be completely fool-proof. Fools are so darned ingenious!

So true!

Sadly, computer hacking is rarely SPONSORED by universities these days. In fact, some places even FROWN on the activity!

But now we get to explore the cracks and crevices in VR worlds, in a much more visceral way. EDIT: I quickly discovered that you can escape the Fov2Go "Tales From The Minus Lab" room through a crack in a corner wall. It is difficult to get back inside though...

[PasticheDonkey]

i'd think fool proofing shouldn't be based on what people should do, or be reasonably expected to do, but on everything that's possible. so elements need to be compartmentalized into spheres of interaction that can be tested in all possible variables.

[geekmaster]

i'd think fool proofing shouldn't be based on what people should do, or be reasonably expected to do, but on everything that's possible. so elements need to be compartmentalized into spheres of interaction that can be tested in all possible variables.

Although I have not played many video games according to their rules, I have "fallen through the cracks" in the simulation much too often. But then, I spend more time poking around in dark corners than trying to figure out the game logic or goals. I love finding open and inviting "back doors" in otherwise secured environments (VR and RL):
http://www.actionsquad.org/underground.html

No matter HOW MUCH time you spend trying to lock down your simulation, people will find cracks where you never thought to look. They have a mindset beyond your reasoning. Good luck trying for absolute security. Absolute goals are doomed to failure. But you need to make the attempt anyway to gain consumer confidence. Such is life...

[KBK]

... I haven't tried the rift on for myself.. I hope it's even better than the above video.

It's probably a Goo screen. Pretty high odds.

Evidence? Disclaimer? [Who profits from the sale of "Goo" screens]:
http://www.bigscreencenter.com/articles.asp?id=125

Everything you need to know about Screen Goo
By Ken Hotte,
Goo Systems technician and head of research and development

Who is the author of that Screen Goo document?
http://www.stereophile.com/ssi2009/kbk/index.html

It was a pleasure to finally meet Stereophile forum member, KBK, also known as, Ken Hotte. If you think he looks a little crazy here, you should read his forum posts.

Although grey screens (expensive "Screen Goo" brand, and others) ARE essential for DMD/DLP projectors which have very poor black levels, grey "Goo" screens are NOT a "one-size-fits-all" solution (despite claims to the contrary). White screens are vastly superior for projection technologies that have good black levels, such as CRT or laser projection. And metallic silver screens (which I use) are necessary for polarized projectors (I still have my 16mm 3D film camera and polarized projector lens). For some applications where light preservation is required (high gain, but low vertical FoV), retroreflective bead screens work wonders, like this inexpensive DIY screen from Make!:
http://makeprojects.com/Project/Glass+B ... R-gxKWsh8E

Goo makes what is probably the highest quality white screen that there is. The only reason it is not 'certified' as being the best is due to it being self applied. The certification bodies won't certify anything that is self applied, as that is a variable in the equation. Thus, no matter the contrast of the situations, the arrangement, or the demands, it is pretty good odds that is a goo coating that is in use. It is a known quantity that is known to be of excellent use in such application. The gain curve is custom designed (it is actually a gentle M shape/curve for high uniformity and rapid drop off at large angles), it is different than all surfaces and materials, and is about as perfect as it can get for such demands. The biggest 3d screens in the world are also Goo screens. All of them. As well as all the leading military and corporate installs. So, please, tell me more about how Ignorant I am.

I can either say more, or less, but do expect your internal Quixote to tilt at this regardless. As for my being on this forum, I emailed Palmer & crew on ..uhm..probably the same day I applied to be here.

As for the look on my face for that photo, I did an 'action shot' pose for the photographer, Stephen Mejias. He showed me the photo and I said, "Hey... don't use that, I look crazy!" He grinned and said 'perfect'.

The second comment from that website:

~~~~~~~
Submitted by Ted Clamstruck on April 15, 2009 - 8:12pm.

This dude looks like as much of a psycho as his forum posts read.

~~~~~

Which came from a guy who self admitted...that he paid his way through school by getting undressed and allowing an old lady beat him. For money. then he joined the military. and killed people in foreign countries.

Ie..that 'haters gonna hate'.

[bobv5]

"As for my being on this forum, I emailed Palmer & crew on ..uhm..probably the same day I applied to be here."

Umm, have I missed something? WHat does emailing Palmer have to do with using this forum or not?

[geekmaster]

[KBK]

"As for my being on this forum, I emailed Palmer & crew on ..uhm..probably the same day I applied to be here."

Umm, have I missed something? What does emailing Palmer have to do with using this forum or not?

It should not, but geekmaster seems to have issue with me. Thus it keeps popping up, as he stirs the pot at every chance.

I'm not antagonizing the situation in any way, but he certainly seems to have a way of degrading any thread I make a post in.

[geekmaster]

... but geekmaster seems to have issue with me. Thus it keeps popping up, as he stirs the pot at every chance.

I would never stir the pot. It breaks the resin sacks, exposing the hash oil to oxygen in the air, which degrades the THC content. (No, not you, TheHolyChicken!)...

[Zoide]

Please, let's keep it civil. In the meantime I recommend reading NwAvGuy's article on subjective bias.

Now let's get back to talking about the Oculus Rift!

[PasticheDonkey]

i don't think what kind of screen they were using was relevant to the point of the video being posted here anyway. i'm anti non-relevance anyway. generally denotes an agenda as well

[geekmaster]

[PasticheDonkey]

Please, let's keep it civil. In the meantime I recommend reading NwAvGuy's article on subjective bias.

Now let's get back to talking about the Oculus Rift!

i've known people to justify what they already have as well, by claiming subjective bias for people who like something better. like HD for example.

[KBK]

Yes, I made a comment about overall contrast loss and this loss bleeding cross effects into other areas of image fidelity, but I foolishly made the comment with respect to the use of a low priced Fresnel.

Then I made a comment about a need to realize circuits in a manner that compliments their method of operation. After those two comments, I have spent my time being under attack.

Someone really needs to get themselves under control.

[geekmaster]

Yes, I made a comment about overall contrast loss and this loss bleeding cross effects into other areas of image fidelity, but I foolishly made the comment with respect to the use of a low priced Fresnel.

Then I made a comment about a need to realize circuits in a manner that compliments their method of operation. After those two comments, I have spent my time being under attack.

Someone really needs to get themselves under control.

Actually, I really do not think that those two claims are outlandish enough to cause replies that make you feel "under attack".

It is the weird physics and "I'm smarter than you" (paraphrased) comments you add to many of your posts that prompts such attacks (by many different people on multiple forums). Like I said...

But all posts that question your claims remain unanswered...

[KBK]

cyber, or Neil, can you remove these irrelevant posts, please? of all the potential threads in this forum area to be polluted by this ... it should not be this one.

[cybereality]

@KBK: I don't think its as bad as needing to be removing posts, but people should really try to stay on topic. This is the Rift thread, if you want to talk about something else then please make a new topic. Thanks guys.

[geekmaster]

[bobv5]

A different thread.
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=16435

[stokis]

please go in chat room or send emails each other, and don't spam here. This thread is about Oculus Rift, and i don't want to read 13 posts about nothing, and 1 post about Oculus Rift!!!

[jhouff]

please go in chat room or send emails each other, and don't spam here. This thread is about Oculus Rift, and i don't want to read 13 posts about nothing, and 1 post about Oculus Rift!!!

Amen brother!

[MrGreen]

please go in chat room or send emails each other, and don't spam here. This thread is about Oculus Rift, and i don't want to read 13 posts about nothing, and 1 post about Oculus Rift!!!

No, really. This is borderline getting creepy.

[coresnake]

Wow who let the crazies out of their cages...