Vuzix Wrap VR1200

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cybereality
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by cybereality »

So I just tried the 1200VR on my new laptop. I have good news and bad news.

Good news: The quality (at least in 2D) actually looks better than I've ever seen it. I think this is because the laptop has a straight VGA out, while m my PC only has DVI (so I need converters). But really, watching videos and even playing some games (L4D) looked remarkably better. Still not HD quality, but respectable. The Windows desktop did not look much better, but certainly in 2D games/videos there was a difference.

Bad news: The IZ3D driver does NOT seem to want to work on my laptop. The games I wanted the most to work, L4D and HL2, would not start at all. I would click play, the screen would go black, and then immediately return to the desktop (no error message, no nothing). I'm hoping maybe its a video driver issue, I will update those next. But this is a huge disappointment, because the main games I wanted to play with this setup are L4D and HL2. Thankfully COD4 did work in 3D, so it at least gives me some hope. Strangely the 3D mode did not look really any better than it did on my PC. Gonna hopefully sort this all out soon, but I still have Vuzix and DDD drivers to fall back on if I just can't get iz3D to run.

The Ugly: Found a strange bug with the headset. If I switch from SBS 3D mode to Anaglyph mode, it stays in SBS but also does anaglyph (double 3D!!!!). If I continue switching in any direction after this the 1200VR freezes with this strange white flashing screen and the only way to fix it is to restart the computer. Kinda sucks.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by ancjob »

cybereality wrote: The Ugly: Found a strange bug with the headset. If I switch from SBS 3D mode to Anaglyph mode, it stays in SBS but also does anaglyph (double 3D!!!!). If I continue switching in any direction after this the 1200VR freezes with this strange white flashing screen and the only way to fix it is to restart the computer. Kinda sucks.
last time i tried vuzix was with av920 i'd not get even the 3d to work flicker-free.....and you have 'DOUBLE' 3D - i envy you cyber....what did you do to make vuzix so happy with you that they provided you new bonus 3D format [sbs with anaglyph - really new] ? :lol:

btw - cyber - what 's the make and model and config. of your laptop ?
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by cybereality »

ancjob wrote: btw - cyber - what 's the make and model and config. of your laptop ?
I have a Lenovo Y570: i5 2.3GHz, 4GB, Nvidia 555M
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by ShawmK »

cybereality wrote:So I just tried the 1200VR on my new laptop. I have good news and bad news.

Good news: The quality (at least in 2D) actually looks better than I've ever seen it. I think this is because the laptop has a straight VGA out, while m my PC only has DVI (so I need converters). But really, watching videos and even playing some games (L4D) looked remarkably better. Still not HD quality, but respectable. The Windows desktop did not look much better, but certainly in 2D games/videos there was a difference.

Bad news: The IZ3D driver does NOT seem to want to work on my laptop. The games I wanted the most to work, L4D and HL2, would not start at all. I would click play, the screen would go black, and then immediately return to the desktop (no error message, no nothing). I'm hoping maybe its a video driver issue, I will update those next. But this is a huge disappointment, because the main games I wanted to play with this setup are L4D and HL2. Thankfully COD4 did work in 3D, so it at least gives me some hope. Strangely the 3D mode did not look really any better than it did on my PC. Gonna hopefully sort this all out soon, but I still have Vuzix and DDD drivers to fall back on if I just can't get iz3D to run.

The Ugly: Found a strange bug with the headset. If I switch from SBS 3D mode to Anaglyph mode, it stays in SBS but also does anaglyph (double 3D!!!!). If I continue switching in any direction after this the 1200VR freezes with this strange white flashing screen and the only way to fix it is to restart the computer. Kinda sucks.
Interesting.
I've been using mine with the VGA port on my netbook, and I have no complaints about the image quality - it's much better than the image produced by the 920 when connected to the same VGA adaptor.

I've noticed the same bug when switching to anaglyph mode, but it seems to be fine if you go from 2D into anaglyph. It's only when switching directly from one 3D format to another that I've had problems. There is this note in the manual:
Note: Only 2D and SxS 3D video are supported when using the optional Wrap VGA Adapter (Control Box)
I've had no problem using anaglyph with the VGA connection (not that I've had much reason to) but perhaps this bug is what they're warning about.

Have you tried 3D videos using Stereoscopic Player? That's the way I have been using it and the 3D quality is very good (and it doesn't require any additional drivers).
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by ancjob »

ShawmK wrote:
cybereality wrote:So I just tried the 1200VR on my new laptop. I have good news and bad news.

Good news: The quality (at least in 2D) actually looks better than I've ever seen it. I think this is because the laptop has a straight VGA out, while m my PC only has DVI (so I need converters). But really, watching videos and even playing some games (L4D) looked remarkably better. Still not HD quality, but respectable. The Windows desktop did not look much better, but certainly in 2D games/videos there was a difference.

Bad news: The IZ3D driver does NOT seem to want to work on my laptop. The games I wanted the most to work, L4D and HL2, would not start at all. I would click play, the screen would go black, and then immediately return to the desktop (no error message, no nothing). I'm hoping maybe its a video driver issue, I will update those next. But this is a huge disappointment, because the main games I wanted to play with this setup are L4D and HL2. Thankfully COD4 did work in 3D, so it at least gives me some hope. Strangely the 3D mode did not look really any better than it did on my PC. Gonna hopefully sort this all out soon, but I still have Vuzix and DDD drivers to fall back on if I just can't get iz3D to run.

The Ugly: Found a strange bug with the headset. If I switch from SBS 3D mode to Anaglyph mode, it stays in SBS but also does anaglyph (double 3D!!!!). If I continue switching in any direction after this the 1200VR freezes with this strange white flashing screen and the only way to fix it is to restart the computer. Kinda sucks.
Interesting.
I've been using mine with the VGA port on my netbook, and I have no complaints about the image quality - it's much better than the image produced by the 920 when connected to the same VGA adaptor.

I've noticed the same bug when switching to anaglyph mode, but it seems to be fine if you go from 2D into anaglyph. It's only when switching directly from one 3D format to another that I've had problems. There is this note in the manual:
Note: Only 2D and SxS 3D video are supported when using the optional Wrap VGA Adapter (Control Box)
I've had no problem using anaglyph with the VGA connection (not that I've had much reason to) but perhaps this bug is what they're warning about.

Have you tried 3D videos using Stereoscopic Player? That's the way I have been using it and the 3D quality is very good (and it doesn't require any additional drivers).

i really wanted this but for reasons below i'd rather skip

1) when connected to laptop via VGA - it's "non plug'n'play monitor' confirmed by cyber
2)display only 852x480 at least it 'd be 800x600 [same as headplay]
3)expensive compared with sony HMD [HMZ-T1, larger FOV and resolution]
4)fov only 35....

had it been "generic plug'n'play monitor'' thru VGA connection [OS :xp,vista etc,GPU nvidia] i'd have given it a try....too bad vuzix designed this for what - when it's not even automatically detected by video card for optimal resolution assignment set...[same as z800] can't use it as a secondary monitor...
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by cybereality »

ancjob wrote: had it been "generic plug'n'play monitor'' thru VGA connection [OS :xp,vista etc,GPU nvidia] i'd have given it a try....too bad vuzix designed this for what - when it's not even automatically detected by video card for optimal resolution assignment set...[same as z800] can't use it as a secondary monitor...
Actually, on my laptop it is recognized as the "Vuzix Wrap 1200" in Windows. This is because my laptop has a straight VGA out. On my desktop I am using a DVI->VGA converter, and using that it is not recognized. So on the laptop I can use it as a dual monitor (clone or extended) or even set it as the primary monitor it I want. This is no problem, at least under Windows 7 64-bit I can confirm.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by ancjob »

cybereality wrote:
ancjob wrote: had it been "generic plug'n'play monitor'' thru VGA connection [OS :xp,vista etc,GPU nvidia] i'd have given it a try....too bad vuzix designed this for what - when it's not even automatically detected by video card for optimal resolution assignment set...[same as z800] can't use it as a secondary monitor...
Actually, on my laptop it is recognized as the "Vuzix Wrap 1200" in Windows. This is because my laptop has a straight VGA out. On my desktop I am using a DVI->VGA converter, and using that it is not recognized. So on the laptop I can use it as a dual monitor (clone or extended) or even set it as the primary monitor it I want. This is no problem, at least under Windows 7 64-bit I can confirm.
Hmmm...two questions

1)cyber - that's good to hear i thought that reaction of DVI and VGA is the same - that's typical.so VGA treats it "Vuzix Wrap 1200" so it's "generic plug'n'play" then - so it loads 852x480 when booted to windows - right or does it load 1280x768 HD automatically [as direct connection to VGA] ?

2)when you connect it to laptop and restart the laptop are you able to see the bios load message also through vuzix glasses i.e resolution - changing from 640x480 to 852x480 / 1280x768 as windows loads...?
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by cybereality »

@ancjob: Its too late tonight, but I will be sure to test that tomorrow.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by ancjob »

cybereality wrote:@ancjob: Its too late tonight, but I will be sure to test that tomorrow.
please do - i need something portable and usb powered to give headplay the 'rest'
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

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ancjob wrote: 1)cyber - that's good to hear i thought that reaction of DVI and VGA is the same - that's typical.so VGA treats it "Vuzix Wrap 1200" so it's "generic plug'n'play" then - so it loads 852x480 when booted to windows - right or does it load 1280x768 HD automatically [as direct connection to VGA] ?
It doesn't do anything "automatically" you have to set it up. The *only* resolutions that are supported in Windows are 800x600, 1024x768 and 1280x720. THATS IT. I have been able to play games additionally with 640x480 and 854x480 but NOT in Windows. I also had some issues where the resolution would not be remembered when restarting, so I would have to set it up again. Not sure why that happens.
ancjob wrote: 2)when you connect it to laptop and restart the laptop are you able to see the bios load message also through vuzix glasses i.e resolution - changing from 640x480 to 852x480 / 1280x768 as windows loads...?
Nope. I do not see the BIOS screen with the glasses. They only enable once the Windows login screen comes up.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by mAchiNE »

Did you try setting a custom resoloution in the video cards control panel in windows? I found this worked to get 3D working on my 3D projector at native resoloution (which for some reason was not supported out of the box) so it might work for this as well.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by ancjob »

mAchiNE wrote:Did you try setting a custom resoloution in the video cards control panel in windows? I found this worked to get 3D working on my 3D projector at native resoloution (which for some reason was not supported out of the box) so it might work for this as well.

how does one do that .....?
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by ancjob »

cybereality wrote:
ancjob wrote: 1)cyber - that's good to hear i thought that reaction of DVI and VGA is the same - that's typical.so VGA treats it "Vuzix Wrap 1200" so it's "generic plug'n'play" then - so it loads 852x480 when booted to windows - right or does it load 1280x768 HD automatically [as direct connection to VGA] ?
It doesn't do anything "automatically" you have to set it up. The *only* resolutions that are supported in Windows are 800x600, 1024x768 and 1280x720. THATS IT. I have been able to play games additionally with 640x480 and 854x480 but NOT in Windows. I also had some issues where the resolution would not be remembered when restarting, so I would have to set it up again. Not sure why that happens.
ancjob wrote: 2)when you connect it to laptop and restart the laptop are you able to see the bios load message also through vuzix glasses i.e resolution - changing from 640x480 to 852x480 / 1280x768 as windows loads...?
Nope. I do not see the BIOS screen with the glasses. They only enable once the Windows login screen comes up.
i do not know how that happens - but in asrock ion 3d blu-ray win 7 HP and nvidia gt218 GPU- i can see the bios screen then windows loading native 800x600 for headplay......seems like 'made for each other'

still looking for something more portable usb powered...i hate z800 expensive fragile lacking sharpness....no news of cinemizer OLED yet...pretty safe to assume sony wrecked their plans...well in advance...too bad.....
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by mAchiNE »

ancjob wrote:
mAchiNE wrote:Did you try setting a custom resoloution in the video cards control panel in windows? I found this worked to get 3D working on my 3D projector at native resoloution (which for some reason was not supported out of the box) so it might work for this as well.

how does one do that .....?
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 31w#p65234" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Read my last post on that thread, that is for Nvidia Graphics cards but I'm sure ATi is similar. You will need to change your values to suit your display resoloution/ refresh timing etc
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by cybereality »

I was able to create a custom resolution of 854x480. I know the 1200VR can technically support it (it worked when I hit test). However Nvidia or Windows would not list this as an option to set the desktop resolution (probably for the same reason they don't allow 640x480).
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by ancjob »

cybereality wrote:I was able to create a custom resolution of 854x480. I know the 1200VR can technically support it (it worked when I hit test). However Nvidia or Windows would not list this as an option to set the desktop resolution (probably for the same reason they don't allow 640x480).

can this work - by creating a custom resolution driver file .inf using EDID packages.. then disabling nvidia drivers... and telling windows to load the ".INF file" for driver when the vuzix monitor is detected....

have you tried like that ?

i tried for both z800 and headplay @800x600 it worked however i lost video enhancement options like changing brightness / contrast /hue / saturation etc....in windows media player - i think they are the properties of nvidia chip in asrock ion 3d......so i reverted back to nvidia drivers and now ok using headplay [z800 is crap anyway] as 'generic plug'n'play' with full video enhancement options
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by cybereality »

ancjob wrote: can this work - by creating a custom resolution driver file .inf using EDID packages.. then disabling nvidia drivers... and telling windows to load the ".INF file" for driver when the vuzix monitor is detected....
I'm not sure what that would accomplish. I think the issue is that Windows does not allow low resolutions under 800x600, regardless of what the display claims it supports.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by PalmerTech »

There must be some factor other than Windows, because I just tested on my computer with Windows 7 Ultimate, and it lets me run in 640x480 no problem. Good thing, too, because a few of my older HMDs only support that res!
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by ancjob »

i'd have tried wrap 1200vr if the screens 'd been min 800x600 with fov 35.....i guess they 'd soon come up with 800x600 screens in the light of new developments[read sony hmd]...

i still crave a usb powered light weight visor with specs as above and it's NOT z800.....something with image quality same as headplay without the headplay flaws...

there was some hope with cinemizer but no news or update yet.... :evil:

can it ever happen....i wonder... :(
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by Synexious »

ancjob, hopefully the ST1080 is the answer!
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by ancjob »

Aphradonis wrote:ancjob, hopefully the ST1080 is the answer!
pal - i wish you are right....
first the [silliconvalleydisplay] come from nowhere to tell they got 1080p visor to be launched in dec'11.....but no indication of price etc....

second : the display are LCos same as that of headplay but of higher resolution...so they have to reflective.. as well which i hate so safe bet is OLEDs.....only

i guess my only hope will be cinemizer OLED being light weight , usb powered and fov35 with OLED

but scared also if they happen to be using the OLEDs from eMagin as those OLEDs are BAD....have longevity issues! and Sony is too big for portability...

am fed up with headplay as the visor is a too difficult to feel comfortable for watching 90 min movie...but the only one which is generic plug'n'play...so far..

let's see if this st1080 is real or a hype only...
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

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ancjob wrote: let's see if this st1080 is real or a hype only...
Yes, hopefully they won't go the way of the TDVisor and never be released.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by cybereality »

Here is a new review of the Vuzix Wrap 1200VR:
http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/121/1215069p1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The guy was a little harsh, but its pretty true.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by mAchiNE »

@Cyber
so all things considered, what would you reccomend between the Wrap1200VR and the Wrap920VR for a portable setup (price vs features)

It does sound like the 920 has a better optic layout from what I have heard the only thing the 1200 has better is the slightly better res and input options?


ALSO I read that review he may be right about most things but his criticisim of seeing a double iron sight when looking down the sight and having to close one eye is BS IMO because you can only look down a sight with one eye in real life........ thats why Iron sights normally look wierd in 3D if done correctly, just close one eye its not hard, so he wants VR but not realisim?
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by cybereality »

@mAchiNE: Well, its a tough call. The 1200 certainly does have better features on paper. But I feel like they took a step back in some areas, namely the optics. I don't actually have a 920VR, I have the Wrap 310 (which I believe uses the same type of optics). On that I can have a crystal clear image, even without my glasses. With the 1200VR I have trouble getting it clear no matter what. Even wearing glasses or contacts and adjusting everything, it still is not perfect. But the IPD does help with the problem of the screens getting dark on the side. The 1200 also has the widescreen format, which is nicer for modern games. But its hard to say that the 1200VR is twice as good as the 920VR when you compare the prices.

To be honest though, I am even considering selling my unit. I mean, its OK, but I think I'd rather have a 3D projector or maybe just put the money toward the Sony. Anyway, if you are interested just PM me and maybe I can give you a good deal.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by vulkan »

I received my 1200VR a couple of days ago and so far am pretty disappointed.

Previously I had a Z800 (the one PalmerTech has that's in fairly 'abused' condition. It had 5 years of heavy use with Aces High 2 (http://www.hitechcreations.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) which ran well with trackir emulation and the old nvidia stereo3d model.

I'm under no illusion that a headset 1/3rd of the price would've been equal.

But...
... I cannot get good tracking. Pitch and roll pick yaw, i.e. look down and the yaw turns to the right a bit, look up and it turns to the left.
... in stereo 3D sbs it uses a 1280 horizontal resolution, this means each screen/eye is getting 640 horizontal, it's fairly awful res. It makes the 852 horizontal res on the panels pointless unless you use 2D
... in the games I use the most (AH2) the dinput8.dll causes the game to crash. I got things working with an old version of GlovePie that supported the VR920
... 6DoF, seems nothing supports it. I wish vuzix didn't kick Carl Kenner off their forums (GlovePie dev) or we might have had a glovepie with 1200VR support for the extra DoF's
... tracking seems a little 'laggy', i.e. in the z800 if I looked to the right quickly it snapped to the right quickly. With the 1200VR it sort of has to 'catch up', there is a slight lag.
... support - the vuzix forums are full of spam and nobody seems to reply to messages much (ok maybe a xmas holiday thing but they could at least sort the spam out). I'm not sure if I should take them seriously (the forums)

Any one got any tips or tricks on the above I may be missing?
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by android78 »

I can't comment on the rest, but the pitch/roll issue sounds like the gyro or accelerometer (not sure which it uses) is not aligned correctly. If it was me, I'd take a screwdriver to it and see if the sensor can be tilted at all. I see Cyber has uploaded a video of his, and the tracking looks awesome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBD8Y8hgVuM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by cybereality »

I think there is maybe a bug, or just an issue with the Vuzix VRManager with regards to tracking. The raw values actually seem pretty stable. You can try a mouse emulator I wrote here ( http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=13801" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) which does not seem to suffer from the issues with the Vuzix driver. Doesn't make much sense to me either, but such is life. So all in all, I think the tracking is actually pretty good. Currently there is not an easy way to enable 6DOF tracking, even using the SDK in a custom app. I talked to someone from Vuzix about this, and he told me that the raw data itself will support 6DOF with the proper filtering algorithm. However Vuzix does not provide this with their SDK, so developers are kind of on their own here.

On your other points, I mostly agree. The resolution is already on the borderline of being acceptable, and cutting the resolution in half for 3D just makes it sub-par. And the Vuzix forums are mostly a joke. No one moderates it, and there is a ton of spam for WoW gold and all kinds of things.

I hope Vuzix is able to continue in this market and compete with players like Sony. I like a lot of what Vuzix is doing, and the Wrap line has some nice features (mostly being portable, USB powered, etc.) but they really have to step it up in terms of visual quality. There are things that they could have done, or can still do, that would help this. For example, if they supported HDMI 1.4a, then they could feed a full res 720P image directly scaled to 854x480, instead of the horrible SBS triple-scaling situation we have now. Cause in 2D that quality for games/videos can actually look OK. But in 3D, its just not where it needs to be.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by vulkan »

I managed to dig up an old version of glovepie with the 920 support - and use trackir emulation, same problem (so no VR Manager).

Also noticed when I drop into 3D mode there is some sort of interference pattern on the left LCD panel in the middle verticle 20%.

Oh... and I missed off my list:
- ghosting. Dark render area's leave ghosts (inverse shadows). So cockpit frames leave weird ghosting when you look around.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by ancjob »

so much so for horror stories of vuzix 1200 :cry:

Vuzix is a joke!....to say the least!
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by vulkan »

Aces High tracking, took a hell of a lot of tweaking (and glovepie, not VR Manager) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsUnNADVC90" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PalmerTech
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by PalmerTech »

Is it even remotely possible to read instruments, or are you not worrying about that? Were you able to read them on the Z800, or even then?
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by vulkan »

Oh yeah you can, I have a rotary control on my throttle (Saitek X45), thats zoom. So its fairly easy. In fact I find it easier than with normal hat switch setup as you have to map a view button down and forward.

Also finding it hard to get a good colour saturation/brightness/contrast balance on the 1200VR.

I'm thinking I should have got my Z800 a new board... never mind :)
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by vulkan »

Another interesting finding, Aces High supports 720x480, in that res the displays are much clearer (get black borders left and right though).

I suspect the "VGA Box" sucks in its ability (or inability) to scale down. Vuzix really need to sort out a away to run up the native res (852x480).
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cybereality
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by cybereality »

vulkan wrote:Vuzix really need to sort out a away to run up the native res (852x480).
If you create a custom resolution in the video control panel for 854x480, some games will recognize this. I was able to use that in L4D and HL2.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by vulkan »

cybereality wrote:
vulkan wrote:Vuzix really need to sort out a away to run up the native res (852x480).
If you create a custom resolution in the video control panel for 854x480, some games will recognize this. I was able to use that in L4D and HL2.
I can see where to do it in nvidia cp, but any pointers on the timing setup?
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cybereality
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by cybereality »

vulkan wrote: I can see where to do it in nvidia cp, but any pointers on the timing setup?
I didn't mess with the timings, just left them on default and set the resolution.
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by vulkan »

Righto, got it going, 1200VR has to be the primary non-duplicated display.

Looks much better in 852x480. Wonder if I could trick it into runng 1704x480 :)
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by vulkan »

here's a bit of fun on the 1200VR :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0qvQQjdFjM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Vuzix Wrap VR1200

Post by fsoul123 »

Hi. I'm having the problem with anaglyph mode that you mentioned before. When I switch to anaglyph mode it works just for a send, then the screen starts to flash and finally gets blank until I reconect the USB controller, so I can't use this modes. It happens if I switch from side to side to the anaglyph mode (using the ">" button) and if I switch from 2d to the other anaglyph mode (using the "<" button). I tried directly with VGA and using an VDI/VGA adaptor. Someone has solved this problem? Thanks
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