Panasonic Viera Plasma 3D HDTV Owners Thread

[Chiefwinston]

Welcome, I'm starting this thread because- well the AV forums out there are great. But they are not 3D gaming guys. A Panasonic Plasma owners thread is needed. I have a Panasonic TC-P50VT25. I'm currently running a Panasonic DMP-BDT350 3D Blu-ray player and PS3 for sourcing. I'd like to here how other owners are doing. In particular how the different sourcing is working, DirectTV, Cable, Iphone, Ipad, and of course PC ect..... we should cover the the world of firmware updates? Glasses that have side shields to block reflective lighting? Lets talk about any and all possibilities. I'm interested in other peoples experiences with their set because you may have an application thats kick ass. In that case I want it, too. And just for reference I think Star wars: The Empire Strikes Back is by far the best of the six movies and might be the greatest movie of all time. I lost vast amounts of time and money playing Quake 2. Alice in chains and Metallica are my all time favorite bands. I'm an Engineer- so no one listens to me. Kids are a great reason to play with toys into old age. And I still miss my sand box. And of course 3D gaming is a great stress reliever. I'm currently building my version of the holo-deck. This is version 4 for me.

Please don't be shy.
cheers everyone

[Chiefwinston]

Make sure you get your paperwork in for the bonus Avatar 3D blu-ray. My having seen this in the theaters and my experience with other 3D blu-rays. This will be the ultimate 3D blu-ray to have. I'm thinking the more pronounced nature of home theater 3D.... well I'm sure most of you already know.

http://www.panasonic.com/promos/avatar/ ... _sp=promos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cheers everyone

[Nobsi]

Hi Chiefwinston,

it would be nice if you could take some time to shoot pictures for the left and right eye with a digital camera through the lenses of your 3D glasses using this 3D test image from DDD on your VT25:

http://www.tridef.com/support/3d-test-i ... Left-Right

I did this for my Samsung plasma here

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 6&start=14

and would like to see the same for a Panasonic HDTV.

[Chiefwinston]

Nobsi, yes I'll see what I can do. It may be a couple of days. Real busy. Any chance the test image is available in MPO format. It would make it alot easier on me to do the test with an MPO file.

Thanks guys
cheers everyone

[Chiefwinston]

I'm working on getting some photo's. My problem is that I need either a coaxial hook-up or hdmi in order to get the 3d running on the panasonic. My Pc doesn't have either . But also, I'm not so sure the pictures will mean much. I can take any still photo and manipulate all the settings to arrive at a ghostless image. I do this with blu-rays all the time. If I see excessive ghosting from a full hd blu-ray, I pause it at the bad frames. I then start playing with all the different picture controll settings until the ghosting is gone and I still have a fantastic high def. 3D picture. I'll still do these photo's- but I'm having doubts about there value.
Any thoughts on this guys?

cheers everyone
And Nobsi, enjoy that fantastic Samsung.

[Neil]

I didn't do the crosstalk test yet, but check out today's review of COD: Black Ops. See if you can spot any ghosting. It was shot with a 3D camera.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=76" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Sony images were the photographs.

Regards,
Neil

[Nobsi]

But also, I'm not so sure the pictures will mean much. I can take any still photo and manipulate all the settings to arrive at a ghostless image

I did not make any special adjustments for that particular photos. I just adjusted the HDTV once for optimal visual 3D performance in the games I currently play and now use always this settings.

And Nobsi, enjoy that fantastic Samsung.

Thanks and dito for your Panasonic

[artox]

Guys, I wonder if any of you could help me. I've already send letters to AMD and Yamaha, but just in case anyone here knows a solution to my problem feel free to help .
I have an AMD 5770 GPU, a Yamaha RX-V567 receiver and a VT20 tv. I have the system connected through the receiver via hdmi. The receiver is HDMI 1.4a compatible through a firmware update, which I have already applied. I simply cannot get s-3d from my display using Iz3d's 120hz devices mode, DDD's driver or Stereoscopic player. Iz3D's driver diagnostic registers my equipment as compatible, be it only the receiver or the TV ( if the tv is turned off, the recognized display is the yamaha, if it's on, then passthrough is initiated and the Panny gets recognized in CCC). I do get the 120hz devices mode to work when I connect the PC directly to the TV, however my ps3 works just fine in s-3d when connected through the receiver.
When the GPU is connected through the receiver to the TV I get a black screen in s-3d mode ( it only says 16:9 wide). I have tried this in 720p60hz and 1080p24hz, both with the same result. The receiver is set to passthrough, but when I go into the options, where it should specify what signal is input and output both lines are blank, meaning that the gpu isn't sending a recognizable signal ( at least that's what I figure). If I try changing the TV to another input, such as Analogue for example and then return to the PC input I do get a signal from the game, but it is only 2D and switching stereo on/off does not initiate the TV's 3D mode.
On a separate note, SBS mode obviously works fine, apart from a couple of problems. Some games, such as Tomb Raider Anniversary and Lara Croft show a mouse cursor in the middle of the screen, which I simply cannot get rid of. Other games, such as POP: Forgotten Sands and Crysis switch from 1080p60 to 1080p24 without any apparent reason. Any suggestions here would also be appreciated.
Thanks

[Chiefwinston]

hmm I don't know. But my Panny has 4 HDMI inputs. Only 1 input is HDMI 1.4a compatable the other 3 are HDMI 1.3. I only get 3D through this one input. I don't know if this helps- and you may already know this. But let us know how it all works out. I'm sure your not the only one with this problem.

cheers

[cybereality]

Let me get this straight: can you play games in 3D with either the iz3D or DDD driver and have the TV recognize this over HDMI 1.4 when directly plugged in from the PC to TV? When sending a HDMI 1.4 3D signal, the TV should automatically switch to 3D mode (you will see something like "720P 3D" in the top corner). If you can do this then clearly your PC (hardware and software) is configured correctly. In that case it would seem that the receiver is the problem. I know you said the PS3 is able to pass-through, but it is possible that somehow the AMD HD3D implementation is somehow different from Sony's. I don't know. Or maybe the firmware update you got is not totally up to spec and thus not passing the signal through properly (ie they only tested using a PS3 most likely). However I don't have any kind of hardware like this, so I am just speculating.

[artox]

@Chiefwinston - this is weird, I have tried both port 4 and 2 (ARC). I get s-3d through both when using the ps3. Which one do you use?
@ cybereality - "Yamaha is pleased to offer the following firmware update to ensure the best possible performance and features for your Yamaha RX-V467/RX-V567 AV Receiver. This firmware adds 3D video pass-through capability for the HDMI connections and improves stability with 3D signals from DirecTV set-top boxes." Basically it should be compatible even with STBs, so I guess the problem is the communication between the AMD GPU and the receiver. Nothing much I can do at this moment, except hope that either AMD or Yamaha get their sh*t together and fix this.

[Neil]

Hi Guys,

I'm guessing this is unrelated to the earlier topics in this thread. However, this may be of interest to some.

If you are experiencing ghosting with your Panasonic Viera VT20/VT25, try changing the batteries in the glasses. I find that the glasses don't just shut off when the power is low. Instead, they gradually lose efficiency in preventing crosstalk. I'd be interested to see if others have the same experience. This may also explain why some have inconsistent results compared to others.

Regards,
Neil

[Likay]

Hi Guys,

I'm guessing this is unrelated to the earlier topics in this thread. However, this may be of interest to some.

If you are experiencing ghosting with your Panasonic Viera VT20/VT25, try changing the batteries in the glasses. I find that the glasses don't just shut off when the power is low. Instead, they gradually lose efficiency in preventing crosstalk. I'd be interested to see if others have the same experience. This may also explain why some have inconsistent results compared to others.

Regards,
Neil

In this case i add a little sidenote: Rechargeable batteries runs at a lower voltage (1.2v) than standard ones (1.5v) and this may making ghosting higher. If there's a difference you should use high power alkalines (even if the glasses aren't pulling much current).

[artox]

Thanks Neil, any idea how long it takes for the batteries to lose efficiency?
I have another interesting topic - what settings do you use with your VT20/25 TV for s-3d mode ( and in case the EU and US models have different values, do write the model)?
I have a VT20 (default contrast at 30- 50%, max at 60 - 100%), I have previously used the True Cinema mode at the default - 36 contrast and 0 brightness, but recently discovered it sucks in comparison to dynamic, which I now run at 40 contrast and 0 brightness. There is a catch though, dynamic produces a snowing effect in dark areas. I use it with the warm color setting. The contrast does at times get too much, producing somewhat unrealistic colors and I suspect some color overdrive is used as well) but my observations show that the 3d depth achieved in this mode cannot be produced with other picture modes regardless whether you decide to bring up the contrast all the way up to 60 or keep it closer to the medium level. Bear in mind however that dynamic uses up much more electricity and produces more ghosting, so you'll have to lower the separation.

[Chiefwinston]

Artox my VT25 has one hdmi 1.4 input. It is hdmi input #4 and thats what I use for all my 3D. Also, If you check the console forum under my PS3 3D experience you'll find alot of my settings for various media. I adjust everthing for each application for best results.

cheers everyone

[artox]

Chiefwinston, I don't know about the VT25, but on the VT20 I have confirmed myself both via the ps3 and the pc (at least for hdmi 2 and hdmi4 ports) that hdmi 1.4. is supported and s-3d works. HDMI does after all have ARC, which is exclusive to hdmi 1.4. Just check on the back panel whether your hdmi 2 port has a ARC label and if it does, it should be also compatible.

[Chiefwinston]

artox, I took a closer look at the back panel and my hdmi input #1 has a arc label next to it. My VT25 has 3 hdmi inputs on the back panel and hdmi#4 is on the side of the set. Also, on a side note: there are about 12 movie titles @ the sony playstation store that are in 3D for rent. I haven't rented any yet but I will be. $5-$6 for a rental seems pretty good vs. $25-$30 to buy a mediocre movie. Also, I'm interested in knowing if some of the Viera Cast features in the new 2011 TV's will come as an update for us. There are some 3D games that have been anounced that look interesting. By the way the Viera Cast isn't all that impressive to me just yet. But I can see it developing into a nice feature if panasonic invests in it. Direct streaming of video's through Viera Cast looks interesting. I'd really be interested only in 3D video's. Does anyone know if netflix or Amazon video on demand have any 3D movie content?

cheers everyone

[Chiefwinston]

Hmm does enyone know if there's a video card that will support 3 hdmi 1.4 screens. I'm thinking about buying 2 more panasonic plasma's and making a 3 screen arrangement.

cheers everyone

[Chiefwinston]

Well last night I tried the VUDU on demand movie service through my PS3. It now offers streaming 3D movies in 1080P quality. With the PS3 you get one free movie to watch. I chose Chicken Little as my first test with this service. Agian this movie was free and in 3D. I ran it in 1080p and 720p modes. They both look outstanding. I did, however, turn off mosquito Noise reduction and another noise reduction feature in the Panasonics Advanced 3D picture settings. This eliminated a soft fuzzyness that I was seeing at first. I believe some of the compression features with this service add a small amount of noise that can be eliminated with some of the panasonics advanced features. I switched back and forth between 1080p and 720p video. On the panasonic the difference is imperceptable. The quality compared to a Full HD 3D blu-ray is in the imperceptable range, also. High quality 720p video looks stunning. Its way beyond 720p PS3 gaming. Don't believe it. Vudu on demand service and a free video to try yourselves.

cheers everyone

[artox]

Hi again, just wanted to report that with the 10.11 Catalyst version the AMD HD3D mode works through my Yamaha receiver. There is another problem though, Vsync does not work and not even when forced through the CCC menu.
PS.:
This is the situation with certain games, such as Mirror's Edge and Oblivion, but does not happen in other games - COD4 and Myst5 for example.

[Chiefwinston]

It kinda looks to me that the Block noise reduction and the Mosquito noise reduction features under the advanced 3D menu help offset compression techniques in broadcast media. I've streamed some high quality media that had some fuzziness around the edges and such. Turning these features off seemed to help. If anyone has a chance to experiment around and can try and verify this. It can be subtle. It's taking very good imaging and makes it great. The black level adjustment under this same advanced 3D menu however, can make a significant difference with 3D blu-rays that have fixed seperation. I experienced a significant booste in 3D perception with Ice Age 3. It looked very flat at first. It appears to work by bringing all the shadowing up to there proper visual level. To much black and it will still look flat. To little and the same thing- flat. But once you get the right balance the natural shadowing in scenes helps with the 3D perception. This has varying degrees of effectiveness. Ice age 3 stands out because it made a quite noticable level of improvement. Just something to think about.

Hope you guys sent your paper work in for the free copy of Avatar. The drop dead date was 1/31/11.

cheers everyone

[Chiefwinston]

Okay artox, how does COD4 look? Are you able to get any off the screen effects?

cheers everyone

[Chiefwinston]

loookey here. My free copy of Avatar the 3D blu-ray came in today. Sweeeeet!!!!!!! Now I'm so jazzed up I can't work.

cheers everyone

[Chiefwinston]

I don't know about everyone else. But I'm getting a steady stream of really good 3d content. From 3d blu-rays, games, and on demand services I've always a new 3d experience in the que. I'm running my set in 3d mode for several hours every night.
I'll concur with the batteries in the glasses. Probably best to go about 40 hours and toss. Mr ghost just slowly creeps up with low batteries.

I haven't watched Avatar yet. Maybe Monday night.

Cheers everyone

[artox]

Thanks for the info, Chief. I didn't get my avatar, since it was only limited to US residents (I think).
As for all other issues, discussed:
1.) For battery life I can't say I have noticed any ghosting increase from battery exhaustion. I will have to compare with my other pair of glasses. On a side note - weirdest thing happened when I tried to use them the last time. The battery had run out without any use and now I'm using a slightly less powerful one, since I didn't have any better one to change it with.
2.) I went back to using the True Cinema mode, since the Dynamic one lead to a lack of gradation and too much contrast. I did watch a couple of movies in s-3d - Alice, Coraline and How to train your dragon. For movies I must say the default settings have to be tempered with, since with True Cinema you can hardly get any image pop. I'm not all that psyched about watching movies on the TV in 3d, especially if they don't use 16:9 AR. The TV just isn't big enough. For games, however it's a different story.
3.) COD 4 is a very bad example of a game where you can expect something to pop out of the screen. There are limitations, related to the weapon converging and you have to use simple projection (iz3d), which ruins the overall effect. I would recommend trying a game with flying particles towards the screen. Altogether if you like pop-out you'll have to use Tridef. The driver runs a calculation of the scene's closest and farthest objects and when using auto focus it hit the sweet spot.
My best experience sofar with stereo pop-out was with the Avatar game and with Tine, also prince of persia 2008 when used with Tridef driver. Great pop-out can be also achieved with iz3d, but I'm personally more of a fan of the moderate pop-out and positive parallax. However you should definitely try Tine with Iz3d and the latest patch for the steam version. Set the parallax at the closest object to the screen (usually a branch). There are levels with object coming towards the screen, which are the most awesome stereo in a game I've seen.

I do have a question for all of the gamers using this TV. Frame-packed or SBS and if SBS, which one?
Personally I've found for myself that the 1080p SBS mode offers a less aliased and clearer picture than frame-packed 720p. That said, 720p provides better performance and clearer text. I use Over/Under, it seems slightly better than SBS (personal feeling). Currently frame-packed with iz3d seems to suffer from bugs in certain games, whereas SBS is perfect. Now from what I've read SBS sucks in comparison to checkerboard ( which sadly I don't have), but no one has compared SBS to frame-packed, and I do again mean 720p frame packed vs 1080p (half-res) SBS.

[Chiefwinston]

artox, I see the same thing with movies. Its much tamer 3D than game drivers. But I'm getting better results than my local movie theaters. Each movie I watch requires new settings though I have discovered the best settings for Dreamworks movies are all the same. Interesting eh? Underwater documetaries are pretty good I think. I'll break open Avatar and report back. If I can break myself away from Killzone 3 long enough to watch it.

cheers everyone

[Chiefwinston]

Well I cracked open the Avatar 3D blu-ray last night. Wow. I was going to sell it. Not any more. I will use this 3D blu-ray for calibration purposes from here on out. It is stereoscopy perfected. I've watched alot of 3D blu-ray masterpieces now. This is what 3D is all about. I don't expect its price will drop any time soon. After its exclusivity deal expires this will not be avialable for $30 to $40 any time in the near future. If supplies were to be restricted further this could fetch $200 + easily.
I viewed it in Cinema 3D mode. My VT25 doesn't have a Dynamic mode. Must be a slight difference with the models. What a bonus- thank you Panasonic.

cheers everyone

[Chiefwinston]

9 feet 3 inches (9'3")(2820mm) seems to be a very good distance for maximum 3D effect. That is were through my constant experiments with my VT25 50" 3D HDTV. Has its maximum 3D effect with a PS3. Its very different to PC monitor gaming. Sitting to close is the worst thing you can do with this TV or any of the new 3D HDTV. This info should be a stickey note for this section. I suspect those that are not getting great results may be doing something wrong in their basic set-up. If your using a 100" display your going to need to be around 18 1/2 feet from your display. I'm going to have to build a new room to house my 150" plasma- around 28 feet of distance I think.

cheers everyone

[cybereality]

Yes, the further you get from the screen the greater the 3D effect. However as you get further the FOV also narrows, so you lose immersion. You have to find the good balance.

[artox]

I somewhat agree with the with the above statement related to screen distance. To me it greatly depends on the settings. If I'm playing with ultra separation settings and realistic convergence (meaning 0 parallax at the closest object to the screen), then I'd like to seat as close as possible for full immersion ( URU, Mirror's Edge and FPS games in general). If I use more pop-outy settings with lower separation and negative parallax then sitting farther from the screen is much better. So, again - a matter of personal preference for particular game types, displays, etc..

[Chiefwinston]

Thanks whyme466, I'm looking to add a high end gaming rig to my Ultimate Game Room. For me 720P gaming looks best at around 9 feet (2743mm). However, at 1080p I can move in to about 5 feet (1524mm). Which can help with field of view immersion. If I get closer than 5 feet I can see the pixel structure of the display. So thank you for the info.

Cheers everyone

[artox]

whyme466, are you playing with vsync off, since there is no other way you can get 60fps in 1080p with frame-packed (HD3D) signal through hdmi 1.4. This is not much of an option, unless you like tearing.
The possibilities are limited to 720p@60hz and 1080p@24hz. Currently the only way to play in 1080p@60hz through hdmi is in half vertical or horizontal resolution, meaning side-by-side, which does not actually use the HD3D mode.

[Chiefwinston]

I believe you can get 1080P side by side that is not half resolution and is not frame packed. Though I don't have the PC equipment to prove this just yet. So take it as just speculation at this point. This is the kinda discussion That will be useful to us owners. 1080P running at 60HZ even if it uses half resolution yet looks fantastic is really all that matters to me. I'm of the "show me the great 3D" kinda guys. I'll look at the spec sheets after viewing the great 3D.

cheers everyone

[artox]

1080p at 60hz is half of in-game resolution, since you pack a left and right or an over and under frame inside of a the full 1080p and then stretch it. This means that each distinct frame gets a resolution of either 960x1080 or 1920x540. In comparison, when running in 1080p@24hz in frame-packed mode you get two frames at resolution 1920x1080, which is full hd. I've tested both over/under and left/right and over/under shows much less PQ loss than left/right, but regardless of how you look at it there is significant quality deterioration due to the image resizing (stretching 960x1080 to 1920x1080).
Now personally I find 1080p SBS to be better than 720p frame-packed, however one has to also consider the performance loss, so for heavier games 720p with 2/4MSAA or AMD's new MLAA could be a better option. Another problem are the bugs in frame-packed mode, such as things not being seen in both eyes (Assassin's Creed, Oblivion, Myst 5, URU). So test it for yourself and bare in mind that no matter what you do this will look tons better than ps3 in s-3d ( and I have tried GT5, Motorstorm and the pop trilogy on ps3).

[whyme466]

Please refer to http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 197#p58197" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for more discussion about specs/bandwidth constraints/observations.

[Poisonman]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum and I'm really happy to have found this great site.
I live in Iran and I have recently bought a Panasonic P50VT20 and I must say it's really impressive and I've been blown away with it's 3D capabilities!
I hooked it up with a Samsung BD-C6900 3D Blu-ray player and watched a bunch of 3D blu-ray movies and I can confirm that Avatar is the best 3D content available right now.
I have watched Avatar, Resident Evil Afterlife and How To Train Your Dragon on 3D blu-ray and all of them were really good. Depth in Avatar is outstanding and Resident Evil Afterlife is good at throwing things into your face, like that giant axe from the shower fight scene. How To Train Your Dragon is also very interesting and also enjoyable for younger audience like my younger brother who really was impressed by 3D effects throughout the movie.
I also use a "WD TV HD Live Media Player" to watch movies from my HDD and it really does a great job in playing all the contents that I throw at it. I used it to watch some Side-By-Side 3D movies which also were really nice.
I used my PS3 to play Killzone 3 in 3D and it was second to none in my experience.
I also used my XBOX 360 to play Crysis 2 in SBS 3D mode and it was OK but not as good as Killzone 3 in 3D!
2D picture is also very appealing in HD and SD. I watched a lot BD movies and documentaries and they were all great it quality. SD movies were also good, despite my expectations.
All in all, I'm really enjoying this great HDTV and I'm sure there are going to be a lot of 3D movies out on Blu-ray to watch in near future, as right now I'm waiting for my Tron Legacy 3D BD to be delivered next week.

[artox]

Poisonman, I've just watched a Chrismas Carol in s-3d and I can recommend it. There is a little too much pop-out at times, but the overall depth is good and the movie ain't have that bad either. I've found it a bit too dark for True Cinema mode, so you may want to check out some other picture preset.

[Poisonman]

artox, Thank you for your recommendation. I'll check it out as soon as I can.
I would recommend you to check out "IMAX Grand Canyon Adventure River At Risk 3D". It has amazing scenes in 3D.
My main problem is that, where I am, I don't have access to Blu-Ray discs easily, so sometimes I have to wait for a long time to get a new blu-ray to watch, and of course I have to pay something like 60$ for every disc!
But again, thank you.

[artox]

Burn in?
I just played the witcher 2 for a couple of hours per day, for 4-5 days and got a serious case of image retention. I had to settle for 2d until iz3ds driver gets working. Anyone else having such troubles? The EU model has no whitewash wobbling, so for all its pros this tv has got a serious con. I knew this when I bought it of course, but thought - hey if I use it like a normal tv as well it isn't going to be a big deal. So bear this in mind when gaming in 2d or 3d and if possible hide the hud, reduce opacity or simply take breaks.
I'm welcome to suggestions on how to get rid of the image retention, so far I've clocked about 5-8 hours after I saw it, but it's still apparent in very bright scenes.
Another question, does anyone know the benefits of using the game mode vs THX for example, haven't seen any yet?

[Chiefwinston]

Artox, You raise a valid point. I can't stress how important it is to not have a still image on a plasma. This is not new. On my VT25 I have it set to maximum image wabble. I also use game Mode. Most games do not have static images in them, but some do. Your image retention will fade out. I would not continue with that game until you no longer see the image. Don't panick. It will go away. Give it a couple of days or longer. I inspect and set up all my games to avoid this situation. My Samsungs' show far more image retention than my Panasonic. None of my Samsungs have ever been damaged. Tho I have seen image retention for a couple of days. Most game makers know about the need to keep still images off of displays. But as you can tell some do not undertstand their customers displays.

cheers everyone