Meant to be Seen

HI EVERYBODY!!!
The TIME OF NOT NEEDING A 3D PC MONITOR has arrived at last.
In my gaming corner i have a big table full of smart gaming devices...A SONY HS-800 3D TV, an XBOX 360 new version, a new black WII, a new PS3 SLIM, a SILVERSTONE case nvidia pc and a fantastic 3d blue ray system BDV-F700 with superb sound.
So as you understand my problem was how to play games in 3d not only with my PS3, but with my pc desktop also. AVATAR the game is fantastic too on the XBOX 360 using my SONY 3DTV!
The big frustration was playing in 3D using my SONY 3DTV as a 3D monitor. I Tried many times TRIDEF and IZ3D drivers and always something was going wrong...Example i tried the last DDD drivers the image was ok but with STARCRAFT 2 (side by side)but the mouse was not pointing correctly. So the game was unplayable...i dont want to omit the terrible mess i had to pass through in order to see the game in stereoscopy. BUT USING THE 260.89 drivers and the NVIDIA emitter my BIG FRUSTRATING SITUATION PROBLEM WAS SOLVED.
There is no need to use my Viewsonic 3d pc monitor again with the NVIDIA STEREO GLASSES.
From now on i use my SONY HS-800 3DTV to view stereoscopic pc games with the SONY 3D GLASSES and my life is as simple as that. The image appears in FULLSCREEN CORRECTLY like on the consoles. and the use is exacrtly like NVIDIA 3D VISION.

Congratulations. Sounds like a nice setup.

HI CYBEREALITY
Thanks for your nice words, of course i must admit also that sometimes the pc combination has minor graphical problems but the important thing is that all thing is in a excellent way and the nvidia drivers would be perfect for sure.
One thing is absolutely necessary,that ati must do the same improvements to be antagonistic and finally the 3d future for the pc will be an established reality.
i must mention also that the working resolution for 3d stereoscopic for HDMI 1.4 FOR GAMES AND DVD MOVIES( with CYBERLINK 1O ULTRA) IS 1280X720, which is not bad at all i can assure you.

gicko wrote:HI CYBEREALITY
1280X720, which is not bad at all i can assure you.

1280X720 = good

1920X1080 = overrated as hell

So i guess you are using the 3DTV play feature to use 3D vision on your 3DTV right ?
AMD has just started doing the exact same thing with the HD3D feature, but all the inner workings are hidden so at the moment it's all new and we are struggling know exactly what is supported and how to make the drivers work with it.
So far we have no reports of users trying to use ATi HD3D with 3DTVs so we don't know how well (or how bad) it works.


By the way, Tritosine :
My 1080p dual projectors rooxxxx !
720p is for Lamaaaaaaaas

Just trolling

HI BLACKSHARK
You guessed well!
But i must tell you that i have already tried many times my other desktop pc with phenom 4x and 5870x2(crossfire) with the DDDdrivers and IZ3D drivers with my SONY3dtv.
Using IZ3D drivers for instance i was capable to play FALLOUT 3 in 1920x1080 in side by side and the result was not good...
REASON: THE GHOSTING WAS AGAIN PRESENT such as on my IZ3D monitor. which was my first 3D monitor.
After that my second 3D monitor was the ZALMAN (22) WHICH I STILL LIKE A LOT but i dont use it anymore...

TIMES ARE CHANGING FAST!!!

When you say "ghosting" do you mean doubled images (i.e. software anomalies) or proper rendering with hardware cross-talk? There is a big difference between the two.

Regards,
Neil

Neil wrote:When you say "ghosting" do you mean doubled images (i.e. software anomalies) or proper rendering with hardware cross-talk? There is a big difference between the two.

Regards,
Neil

Dito! My experience using fallout 3 and iz3d-driver (dual projectors) is very good with a very few if any anomalies at all. The most bothersome detail is the pipboy flying into your face (solved using the number hotkeys) when bringing it up. Else it's awesome. My opinion though....

HI Neil
The answer is very simple.
I believe that the stereoscopic setup for the games with IZ3D drivers is quite difficult, i mean to find the correctly setup(THE PROFILE) without ghosting...
But with the NVIDIA drivers it is almost automatic.
I think my answer is clear.

Er, no. That didn't answer the question at all.

If you take a screen shot within the driver, you will get a left right view. Take a picture of a "ghosted" image, and upload it here. We will know right away if this is a hardware or software limitation.

As for the driver comparison, check out our review of Fallout 3:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=76" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nvidia did pretty well, but they didn't take the cake.

Regards,
Neil

Sorry Neil
I made a big mistake my 3tv model is the HX800. Not the HS800.
I must say also that i am a simple 3d user and i am not interested in proving what i am saying.
And i think in this site every body is free to express their personal opinion without restrain.or this is not true?
So my personal taste inclines towards the NVIDIA drivers.
I would like also to tell you that my telly does not present SQUISH images but CORRECT images in games.
So i prefer having Sony than Panasonic.
And my last remark is that i never agreed with your 6/10 you gave in FALLOUT 3 for the NVIDIA drivers.

Hi Gicko,

This isn't about whether or not you have a right to express views in the forum. Nvidia has a great solution, and I use their drivers regularly. The issue is whether or not the problem you are experiencing is a failing of the driver (which is possible) or the hardware (which is equally possible).

Ghosting refers to cross-talk. So, you can have two perfectly rendered images, but one bleeds into the other because the display doesn't cancel the two out properly or completely. This is not driver dependent.

A driver anomaly - which has nothing to do with ghosting - is when remnants of one image is doubled in the other. So, this can appear like ghosting, but it isn't. Another possibility is the separation of objects in the left and right view are so far apart (e.g. the PIP Boy), that your eyes don't fuse the images, and that appears like ghosting.

I don't care which driver solution turns out better for this game, I just wanted to get a better understanding of what was going on.

Regards,
Neil

Hi Neil

I always believed that the ghosting problem is not really a hardware problem (e.g. the IZ3D monitor) but a software problem. I say software because when i see in stereoscopic my wish is to view the image with unlimited depth if such thing could be possible. I think now you understand what i mean...
A big thank for your nice reply and be sure that i believe like you that everything must be explored constantly...

Ghosting is most certainly a hardware problem. Just take a JPS screengrab of any game and look at it cross-eyed. You will see it looks perfect.

hi cybereality
i think if i cant explain what i mean by the ghosting certainly there is here a misunderstanding of this word...for me surely.
But i will try to explain once more what i mean by that. Ghosting for me is when you try to give depth at a stereo image and the result is : seeing with the glasses a bad mix of two images who should make one. so i mean with the NVIDIA drivers i can always see a good stereoscopic depth, but with IZ3D drivers this operation is limited to little depth if i want to have a well mix of two images. So my problem has to do with convergence, separation etc.
Please tell me: this explanation is clear or not?
And for that reason i prefer firstly the NVIDIA drivers and secondly the TRIDEF drivers.
Conclusion: i dont think i have a hardware problem.
MY EYES ARE WORKING VERY WELL TOO

I think I understand. It's a matter of balancing the depth and convergence, and you are having trouble getting the balance that works for you. This is what is giving you those "ghosting" results. Am I understanding your experience now?

In the case of Nvidia, do you use the scroll wheel to adjust your settings, or something else?

Regards,
Neil

Hi Neil
My answer is YES at last. That is exactly.
But when you use the 3dtv play with NVIDIA the scroll button is off.
So i setup the stereo images in games manually in everything but with success.
I would like to add also from the moment i installed CYBERLINK Power Dvd 10 3D Ultra in my desktop pc, the last TRIDEF drivers stopped to give a stereoscopic image using my SONY HX800, i dont know why!
So POWER DVD 10 3D ULTRA is ok with 3Dvision 3dtv play.

I made a mistake the scroll button is working. Sorry, Neil

Yeah, that is not really ghosting then. Ghosting is when some of the image that is intended for the right eye bleeds into the left or vice-versa. To test this while you are playing a 3D game simply close one eye. If you are still seeing a "double-image" then that is ghosting. However if you are playing with high depth and convergence, then certainly elements may be hard to fuse in your mind to make a 3D image. This often happens with objects in the foreground, like the gun in an FPS game. In this case it may be impossible to combine the object together, so it appears like a "double-image" but it is not ghosting. It is just a matter of having too high a separation of the elements. This has nothing to do with the hardware or the software. It has to do with your mind. For example, you can do this in real life. Just hold your index finder facing the ceiling right in front of your nose. Now focus your eyes on the computer monitor. You will see 2 fingers super-imposed upon each other. However, this is not considered ghosting.

Hi cybereality
I know very well what you explain to me and i agree too. This is the result of difficulty for the eye to focus on a pop out object!
But i dont speak about that. I mean the problem with the background when i see double images. I had this problem almost every time with theIZ3D monitor before. After that with the ZALMAN monitor i was finding the sweet point and everything was ok. In that way i was very happy with the ZALMAN...
Now with shutter glasses you cant do that . Which is the word for that problem to see 2 images in the background? And its hardware or software problem for you?

And my conclusion is that IS GHOSTING.
you know why! when i close one eye and...etc

I thought you meant using the iz3d drivers with your tv and experienced ghosting while switching to nvidiadrivers removed it... The above statements makes some things more clear though. And yes, it's no secret that the iz3d-monitor indeed ghosts a bit. The quality of the iz3d drivers are good though.

Ok, then maybe you are talking about ghosting. I know the IZ3D monitor itself supposedly has serious ghosting problems, but that is the hardware, not the software. I use the iz3D driver on my Zalman and I do not notice any more ghosting than with either the Nvidia or DDD drivers.

Everybody must understand that the most important thing is the making of each game.
So for instance i take AVATAR. The first time i tried it was with my ZALMAN monitor and the nvidia drivers and the image was perfect. I mean amazingly perfect. When i tried the IZ3D drivers i remarked immediately some ghosting in the background, so i dont agree with you LIKAY and CYBEREALITY. But nevertheless AVATAR is an excellent stereoscopic
game. The problem is that i tried with my 3dtv, FALLOUT NEW VEGAS and i was disappointed with 3DVISION. It was producing ghosting, wrong shadows in some scenes, problems with the cloudy sky position, lights and ...2010 goes to its end and even now after these new pieces of hardware the programmers didnt take seriously the stereoscopic support for games.
And for that reason sometimes i feel really sad...

one addictive

Avatar has native support for stereo which means that neither iz3d or nvidiadrivers are involved (they're disabled by default when launching the game) so if you're not remembering wrong you're actually blackpainting a little bit.
The other anomalies you describe for fallout seems to be softwareinduced. It was quite some time ago i played fo3 using the iz3ddrivers and the experience was, if not perfect, at least very close to it. To add a remark: Iz3d drivers more often than not have some anomalies when playing games as with using nvidia. There are a very few games which are entirely perfect but usually the anomalies are of a small kind.
The experience might differ a bit between the two but until games use native stereoscopy like avatar it seems like we have to accept it.

does anyone knows if sony kdl46hx800 have good results when you convert 2d to 3d?